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Training making me fat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Got it. I've been off the 5htp since feb or march. Just started it back up a few days ago
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.
    Yea my diet is admittedly the downfall of my physique and efforts.. Lots oif veggies and lean meats but little fruit and dairy.
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    I know it sounds crazy, bit the only difference on routine (supps/diet/training) has been the addition of those vit and minerals... That is why I want to try dropping them and seeing if it makes any difference. I know it is rather crazy to think that calcium, magnesium, c, d3 could be making me retain bf/water.. But I have really looked back on my records and those are the only recent additions / changes to what I had beendoing for a long time with success..
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    I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.
    I know. Which then goes back to the previous statement in which you politely pointed out that I am basket case haha
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    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only
    U take 10k iu of d3 a day?
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    Thanks. Yea I just don't really like dairy products.. I used to have a cup of Greek yogurt or cott cheese a night, and was supplementing 1000mg calcium.. Blood showed my calcium levels were slightly above normal so I cut that in half and then it normalized in two weeks..

    I had a great balance but seemed to have lost it!
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    Coop, could u explain the cycling guidelines of alcar and why it should be cycled, also of5htp, please.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

    Tremors
    Insomnia
    Mood swings
    Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
    Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
    No interest in the gym

    Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

    You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

    Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saggy321
    I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

    Tremors
    Insomnia
    Mood swings
    Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
    Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
    No interest in the gym

    Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

    You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

    Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.
    Hey thanks so much for posting. My training has remained intense honesty for the past 5 years now. It is only as of 2012 that I hVe taken scheduled week offs and had worked out through flu, fevers, ligament/joint issues, etc.. I was 100x more OCD then than I am now.

    I am the same with the intensity- my first week back I trained lighter, higher reps, and less sets.. But by the end of the week I was right back into full swing 5-7 sets, low rest, heavy weights, pounding cardio. My problem is I spend 2-2.5 hours sometimes 3 in the gym between cardio, abs, and weights.. 3-5 days. Some days will just do cardio for an hour, but even that "low intensity" is intense (4.5 mph/15 incline) But if I don't sweat I feel like I haven't worked out.

    I would LOVE to yield better results with LESS training, it is diet related, the training is mental. Too much training+poor diet=bad physical and mental state.

    I only fall asleep at exhaustion in the Earl AM hours. My school and work sched relives around this fact alone. All bc I need the energy to drone through the rigorous standards of workouts I have set forth. Raking a week off was a huge first step- 2 weeks or a month, or TWO... Would be like a preacher skipping chrich in my eyes! But hey, maybe I'll try it out when the time is right. Summer is not the time IMO.. Idk tho. I am trying to limit the stress of my training and eat more appropriately. I have started back on erase (pro) and after only 3 days I am beginning to lean out in my ONLY problem areas- chest/stomach. Which leads me to believe cortisol and estrogen/test are my issues. Too bad I can't get an endo to take me seriously.
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    Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rsnake21
    Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.
    Yea I know.. I'm working through it, it's tough bc it's summer and I thought I had a great cutting/peaking plan, it never happened so I'm pretty discouraged.. I never really down shifted during the winter months for some reason and now I have reached the intensity ceiling.. So its been harder to cut now.. Yaknow. That's why I'm really frustrated.
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    Review your diet plan, restructure your workouts and start over. Your body follows what you put your heart and mind into. If something doesnt work or it is making you feel discouraged, stop it, learn from it and move on.

    The more discouraged you feel or let yourself become, the more your body will follow. Demotivation never helped anyone accomplish anything.

    Think of it like the placebo effect, people train harder and get better results when they actively believe something is working for them when it may not be, because they think its working, they perform better. The opposite is true when you think negitively.

    Chnage your plan, switch up your routine and try again
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    Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
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    wait wait wait... anyone who advises NOT to squat is a complete MORON not a genius. If you dont Squat, you might as well jazzercise.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
    LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.
    Clear PMs coop.
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    A lot of ppl thought this until he trained them and hot them in the best shape of their lives...
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
    lets pick this apart... squatting makes your ass bigger? hahaha nope.
    Running kills muscle? hahhaha nope

    endocrine secretion? ummmm bwahahahahahahaaaaa.

    stop drinking the koolaid bro - your better than this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    A lot of ppl thought this until he trained them and hot them in the best shape of their lives...
    This may be true, but the number one error I see on these boards are that people equate correlation to causation. This is another case in point. You need to be willing to question "how?" and "why?," not just "what?" Only then will you be able to fulfill the AM motto of "learn, teach, lead." Nom saiyan
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    This may be true, but the number one error I see on these boards are that people equate correlation to causation. This is another case in point. You need to be willing to question "how?" and "why?," not just "what?" Only then will you be able to fulfill the AM motto of "learn, teach, lead." Nom saiyan
    What he taught, in my case, is dead on though. Classic over training and not emphasizing my strong points and hiding my weak points. I want the classic v taper. I don't want to and necerhace wanted to look like the mutated freaks of today's bb world. I want that classic elongated widened upper body with a small waist. I have used the 8x8 method by VG and it was some of the best aesthetic progress I'd ever made. I did it for 3 weeks, took a week off, and instead of resuming, I let my curiosity get the best of me and moved onto something else. Diet is still 85-90%. If you are lean, you can then shape and sculpt your body into whatever u want..


    Why would one NOT wantto look like this.. ?
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    Again, you are mistaking correlation for causation. 3 weeks on a new training scheme will never present in significant aesthetic changes in the manner you speak of. LBM accrual is not so rapid...neither is LBM loss. The reasoning behind the reality is always multifactorial and predominantly diet-related, though you may not notice it right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StangBanger
    wait wait wait... anyone who advises NOT to squat is a complete MORON not a genius. If you dont Squat, you might as well jazzercise.
    Can't agree more
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    Man u guys r tough lol
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    Not tough, just objective . The intention is to simply educate you on the truth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
    http://pescience.com/
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    The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Not tough, just objective . The intention is to simply educate you on the truth. Don't sweat the small stuff!
    Oh I know. I love traditional BBing. Believe me there is no greater satisfaction or sense of accomplishment to me than completing a grueling workout. I'm just frustrated bc for whatever reason (the point of this thread again) my current methods are not working.. Be it over training, poor diet, lack of sleep.. most likely a combination of everything.. I figured I'd try anything.. And again, had success, albeit short teerm, with the 8x8 system. I think at thus point I will ficus on dialing in the diet.. No carbs 3 days, then carbs, repeat. I will and have begin curtailing excessive cardio, and I will experiment with less ab work to see if swelling and protruding subsides.. I am set to start a program I've used with success for peaking on Monday.. Designed to emphasize Lats and delts width. I'd post it up but idk if I could take the potential beating I might get lol. Jk.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    To be honest, and this is just being straight up, maybe try, at least temporarily, a 'normal' diet. The reason I say this is that it just seems like you havent got it all mapped out yet and are still trying to find yourself. Take a step back, and work from the ground up.

    I incorporate ab work into most of my workouts annd 1 day where I completly hammer them. I never feel bloated.

    Find a diet and workout that works, stick with it, dont change it every day or two because of something you read that may or may not be better, its better to make chnages slowly, experiment over two-three weeks and if its not working then switch it up.
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    Ched how long have you been training for?
    PES ALPHAMINE Log
    h ttp://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/213082-pes-alphamine-log.html
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    Please stickie this thread fcuk sake.
    This info is gold for many.

    Coop, I feel like a turd throwing my ****e questions at you and bugging you. I do try not to take a dogmatic view that carbs are bad. They help with cortisol and repletion and taste good. I'm talking gluten free here and not oats either.

    Camz, I know what your feeling. I make everything a bloody science experiment and.shouldnt have to.

    Too y'all who listen and help.out, THANKS VERY VERY MUCH. Invaluable.........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza
    Ched how long have you been training for?
    Since football At age 14- suffered anorexia age 16-18 (still trained but excessive and lost 100 pounds). then Since 18 for bulks n recomps to fix the damage. I'll be 24 in sept so 10 years.. But I guess i would say almost 6 if u cut out everything prior to losing 10" pounds of body mass. Talking muscle, fat, bone density, organ weight..
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    First and foremost, break up your training into more days with less gym time or just cut back overall. Serum testosterone levels will begin to fall around the 60-90 minute mark. If your issue is indeed test: cortisol issues you need to minimize the damage done in that regard. You don't need to be in the gym nearly that long to get things accomplished anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdb2
    First and foremost, break up your training into more days with less gym time or just cut back overall. Serum testosterone levels will begin to fall around the 60-90 minute mark. If your issue is indeed test: cortisol issues you need to minimize the damage done in that regard. You don't need to be in the gym nearly that long to get things accomplished anyway.
    Yea I just got soo busy that I figured id dedicate 3-4 days of intense training and that recovery would improve with more off time.. But obviously went overboard w gym time
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    I understand and It's hard for some to resist the urge to keep pounding away but the weight room is a great example of more not always being better. Aside from seeking out help from medical professionals and or time off, I would start by backing training down to a max of 2 hours and, ideally, 60-90 minutes. That's a rough starting point as you may need less with your potential issues, but baby steps are a good start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerdb2
    I understand and It's hard for some to resist the urge to keep pounding away but the weight room is a great example of more not always being better. Aside from seeking out help from medical professionals and or time off, I would start by backing training down to a max of 2 hours and, ideally, 60-90 minutes. That's a rough starting point as you may need less with your potential issues, but baby steps are a good start.
    For sure. I believe the less is better and have for some time, which is a start .. Applying it is the tough part.. But when you physically can't as is happening now.. Your body forces you too.. As I've said.. Ready for making changes for the better! Really appreciate this forum and all the great guys and gals helping out.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
    Follow my 2014 training and supps!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240285-chedapaloozas-2014-training.html
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    Little update- started on a new workout and changed my diet up.. First n foremost- diet is now 4-6 days of keto followed by a carb inclusion day. I am eating only meats, fish, and animal fat, eggs, the like.. No veggies or salad or any carbs what so ever, aside from the 2g in my protein mix. Energy is great, as Is mood.. Leaning up literally ecerywhere except lower belly. Im not 18 anymore.. Im almost 24, I guess I should stop expecting 3 day results..

    As for workouts. Hit the gym everyday so far this. Week. Max time was 2 hours, min was 1.2 hours. Including cardio and weights. Only did Abs once so far and literally just about 50 reps of various movements to get a deep burn. and will hold off another day or two before maybe hitting them again. Really trying to rely on the keto diet to shed bf.. My abs r big.. I probably built them too much over winter and that is why I have developed a bit of a protruding stomach. Even after 4 days of no AB work, they hardness was there, but the swollen ness seemed to be subsiding greatly.. Hopefully this keto thing will work out and I will ride it thru the summer
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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    suprisingly, you do need a strong core to deadlift and squat correctly.
    I dont do any direct abs anymore. Just squat and deadlift like a mo'fo and my waist has thickened and i have become so much stronger.

    Glad your feeling better Cam, we all wanna help you. Keep it up and dont forget about time off and recovery!!!body grows and recouperates during recovery

    peace
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    Quote Originally Posted by runner_79
    suprisingly, you do need a strong core to deadlift and squat correctly.
    I dont do any direct abs anymore. Just squat and deadlift like a mo'fo and my waist has thickened and i have become so much stronger.

    Glad your feeling better Cam, we all wanna help you. Keep it up and dont forget about time off and recovery!!!body grows and recouperates during recovery

    peace
    I've been deadlifting once a week heavy with occasional/necessary deloads for literally 5 years straight.. Never stopped for more than an off week. I'm going to try n shake things up and cut deads out for a few weeks, see if i can't really shrink my waist and lower back.. It's all about creatine the illusion- wide upper body, tiny waist. Will continue dedicTed leg work.. But let's be honest- I workout to look good- if picking up a bar with 260 pounds on it isn't applicable to that goal... Why the hell would I continue to do it? Lol. Instead I'm doing hypers twice a week and reverse hypers twice a week. All body weight for these. If all goes well, I will stRt deading again at the end of aug. And also resume heavier ab workouts.
    "no failure is final, nor is any success"
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