Training making me fat?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    If you read an earlier post, I warned that this would happen. There is an initial retention of water weight that accompanies the addition of carbohydrates to the diet. Regardless, you need to increase your fats as well (and that was more alarming to me than anything else). They are too low to maintain optimal bodily function, testosterone synthesis included.
    I have.. Been adding olive oil to salads. almonds and pistachios.. Eating more cheese, avocado, natty pb, chicken/tuna salad, etc.

    Everytime I've ever cut, it was on a large deficit and near keto diet. I would love more than anything to cut while consuming carbs. The strange thing (and prompt of this post) is when I disnt train all week, it felt like my appetite was more in control and I didn't look all swollen (primarily in the stomach) and like I was retaining anything I actually had increased BM's.. And I wasn't following IF.. I would eat breakfast, lunch, shake, dinner.. But can't do that with the training schedule I have to use.

    Fwiw- Im currently taking OEP, animal cuts, erase, Anabeta, division 1, need2slin (switching to AP in 4 days) , alcar, alri lean dreams at bed, multi, b complex, l tyrosine, d3, horny goat weed blend from vitamin shoppe
    (dropped calcium, magnesium, and zinc having taken it daily since Jan)

    Aggression is through the roof, sleep is poor

    I hope you don't think I'm blowing off your advice.. I'm really doing the things u said.. I'm convinced there's an underlying issue (I know my test was 468 in feb, not sure now) and free test was 73.5 (following 8 weeks of Anabeta and erase, estradiol was not tested bc my dr is a moron. Shbg was 33. those r the only notable numbers from that blood and he's refused to draw any more since!!


  2. Your diet is really low in saturated fat. Improving the sat fat:PUFA ratio should increase your testosterone levels.

    Again, what you experienced earlier was some hormonal normalization and glycogen replenishment. It really seems like you're restricting yourself with the poorly constructed diet. I'm not saying that you should eat nothing but fat and carbs, but re-introduce some balance into your lifestyle. It will help with living happily and sustainably. I wouldn't be offended if you chose not to follow my advice, but I just think your diet could use improvement. The changes will not occur overnight, but they are reversible.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Your diet is really low in saturated fat. Improving the sat fat:PUFA ratio should increase your testosterone levels.

    Again, what you experienced earlier was some hormonal normalization and glycogen replenishment. It really seems like you're restricting yourself with the poorly constructed diet. I'm not saying that you should eat nothing but fat and carbs, but re-introduce some balance into your lifestyle. It will help with living happily and sustainably. I wouldn't be offended if you chose not to follow my advice, but I just think your diet could use improvement. The changes will not occur overnight, but they are reversible.
    I understand. I wish it wasn't summer or else I would be wholly embracing an attempt at this.

    Im under the impression from vRious readings that 10g sat. Fat is the daily limit..? False? You said 80 unsat.. But what is a good range for sat.?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I understand. I wish it wasn't summer or else I would be wholly embracing an attempt at this.

    Im under the impression from vRious readings that 10g sat. Fat is the daily limit..? False? You said 80 unsat.. But what is a good range for sat.?
    I didn't say 80g of unsaturated fat. Saturated fat is essential, and for someone who has been restricting fats, I'd recommend they comprise 1/5 of your daily intake.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    Did I say fat intake makes you fat? Lol. This [reductionist] view point on insulin doesn't account for post-absorptive overlap between meals, not to mention the effects of other macronutrients on the glycemic index and ultimately, the insulin spike/output. To think carbs and/or insulin is the reason people get fat is archaic and incorrect, as all recent nutrition literature, examining relevant parameters, has shown that a caloric surplus, not carb content of the diet, will determine fat gain.

    I'm not going to`discuss this any further as I have argued with people ad nauseum about this topic. My "proof" is actually a research review written by Alan Aragon, updated every month to keep up to date with the latest studies. I don't know a damn thing about Gary Taubes, but if he's drawing conclusions and [incorrectly] citing articles, then I don't care to know him.

    There is no reason to keep carbs lower than the other macronutrients. Macronutrient needs are bodyweight and LBM specific for fat and protein, respectively, and carbs can freely be used on top of one's "optimal" protein and fat intake to hit the necessary calories to achieve the desired energy balance.

    Now, all of this was with respect to the effects of carbs on body composition, and if you wish to dispute prevailing data, I can't do much. Your point, with respect to overall health and disease is duly noted. I have attended seminars from leading researchers on the topic, with projects on organisms ranging from C. elegans to chimpanzees, and there is a strong correlation between longevity, disease, and glycemic load. That is not the topic of discussion for OP's issues, and my advice is not something I'm just repeating....it's something tailor-made for his specific scenario.
    Best nutrition related advice Ive read all day.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Your issues likely have nothing to do with cortisol, especially since adrenal fatigue is not a real medical condition and you have not "overloaded your adrenals" by using stims over the years.

    For starters, your diet is not high fat at all. In fact, it is very low. Aim for about 80g of fat daily from here on out.
    I have been on stims, actually two at once for 5 years straight. Literally no breaks..before I got 'smart'er, I was on 1,3 dime based stims for months at a clip.. Now I at least cycle off those Every 8 weeks. Also used many harsh ph's with no knowledge of pct from age 18-20 (2006-2008) as well as win and var, no pct either, utterly stupid and unacceptable I know. Followed by endless months of OTC test boosters, 2 or 3 at once no joke.. No knowledge or resources like I have now.. this is why I believe there r underlying issues. Sorry if I sound like a broken record!

    And then the 80g thing I mentioned. So 1/5 of 80 ~16g sat. Fat?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I have been on stims, actually two at once for 5 years straight. Literally no breaks..before I got 'smart'er, I was on 1,3 dime based stims for months at a clip.. Now I at least cycle off those Every 8 weeks. Also used many harsh ph's with no knowledge of pct from age 18-20 (2006-2008) as well as win and var, no pct either, utterly stupid and unacceptable I know. Followed by endless months of OTC test boosters, 2 or 3 at once no joke.. No knowledge or resources like I have now.. this is why I believe there r underlying issues. Sorry if I sound like a broken record!

    And then the 80g thing I mentioned. So 1/5 of 80 ~16g sat. Fat?
    Aim for 20g saturated fat. Get 2-3g combined epa/dha a day. Eat a balanced 6-9 diet the rest of the way.

    I don't mean to sound rude, but I think the underlying issue you referenced is psychological. Supplements have become a crutch for you, and that's just something you're going to need to work out on your own.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Aim for 20g saturated fat. Get 2-3g combined epa/dha a day. Eat a balanced 6-9 diet the rest of the way.

    I don't mean to sound rude, but I think the underlying issue you referenced is psychological. Supplements have become a crutch for you, and that's just something you're going to need to work out on your own.
    Not rude at all- ur absolutely right.. Will start working towards those numbers.

  9. good to know !!
    You come in peace, but you go back in pieces

  10. Coop- I wanna start reducing supplement use.. For staples I have been using:
    Vitamin world men's sport - upon rising
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    B50 complex-upon rising/with dinner
    Calcium/mag/d3- with dinner
    Extra d3 1000iu-with dinner
    Vitamin c-500mg with dinner
    Magnesium-250mg with protein shake ~2 hours Pre bed
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    L tyrosine-500mg upon rising, 500mg mid day
    5htp-50-100mg at night (think might cause anxiety though, maybe move away from bed?)
    Sam e-200mg upon rising
    ALCAR-500 Pre, with dinner, with protein shake Pre bed

    As odd is it sounds, I'm considering cutting all of that out bc when I peaked last year in December and last summer.. I disnt use any of that (only multi, 5htp, alcar, tyrosine, Sam e, and b vit once daily) so im thinking none of the other stuff is necessary. But I don't have dairy, hence the calcium and vit d issue, also don't get much sun.. I'm a night person so do u think I should cut out the zinc, mag, calc, C, d3? And go back to one b50 a day?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza
    Added carbs daily like u said coop.. Only got worse.. Got even softer.. I can't cut bf at all for some reason right now.. Even with heavy supps and increased cardio ... Tried every type of eating approach .. I'm just so confused, never had such An issue losing weight.. I've cut 5 pounds over night before! Just seems like the harder I go, the worse I look.. No definition/fullness in muscles.. Swollen/puffy/bloated stomach.. Just beyond frustrated and defeated now
    What carb sources did you add to your diet?

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza

    What carb sources did you add to your diet?
    Brown rice, whole wheat High fiber flax wraps, fiber one cereal, some fruit like bananas and berries, Lots of chick peas, kidney, black beans, some cottage cheese n Greek yogurt

  13. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Brown rice, whole wheat High fiber flax wraps, fiber one cereal, some fruit like bananas and berries, Lots of chick peas, kidney, black beans, some cottage cheese n Greek yogurt
    I know there's a lot disagreement around here regarding carb intake, glycemic index, calories in vs out, but over ten years of training and dieting I've found that I respond better to lower glycemic carb sources and it's not just a macro numbers game for me.

    If I were to consume white potato for the first two meals of the day I will actually begin to look soft and watery as the day progresses.

    If I eat the same amount of carbohydrates worth of oats in those first two meals, I don't get watery, in fact my muscles feel more "pumped". Same goes for brown rice.

    Some people can eat white rice and white potato and do very well with it. Unfortunately I can't and the glycemic index of foods does effect me substantially.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza

    I know there's a lot disagreement around here regarding carb intake, glycemic index, calories in vs out, but over ten years of training and dieting I've found that I respond better to lower glycemic carb sources and it's not just a macro numbers game for me.

    If I were to consume white potato for the first two meals of the day I will actually begin to look soft and watery as the day progresses.

    If I eat the same amount of carbohydrates worth of oats in those first two meals, I don't get watery, in fact my muscles feel more "pumped". Same goes for brown rice.

    Some people can eat white rice and white potato and do very well with it. Unfortunately I can't and the glycemic index of foods does effect me substantially.
    Right. Same for me. But much more extreme- high glycemic = look awful, low glyc= could get away with a day or two of less than 100g.. No carb is literally the only way I have ever been able to shed bf..

  15. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Coop- I wanna start reducing supplement use.. For staples I have been using:
    Vitamin world men's sport - upon rising
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    B50 complex-upon rising/with dinner
    Calcium/mag/d3- with dinner
    Extra d3 1000iu-with dinner
    Vitamin c-500mg with dinner
    Magnesium-250mg with protein shake ~2 hours Pre bed
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    L tyrosine-500mg upon rising, 500mg mid day
    5htp-50-100mg at night (think might cause anxiety though, maybe move away from bed?)
    Sam e-200mg upon rising
    ALCAR-500 Pre, with dinner, with protein shake Pre bed

    As odd is it sounds, I'm considering cutting all of that out bc when I peaked last year in December and last summer.. I disnt use any of that (only multi, 5htp, alcar, tyrosine, Sam e, and b vit once daily) so im thinking none of the other stuff is necessary. But I don't have dairy, hence the calcium and vit d issue, also don't get much sun.. I'm a night person so do u think I should cut out the zinc, mag, calc, C, d3? And go back to one b50 a day?
    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Got it. I've been off the 5htp since feb or march. Just started it back up a few days ago

  17. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.
    Yea my diet is admittedly the downfall of my physique and efforts.. Lots oif veggies and lean meats but little fruit and dairy.

  19. I know it sounds crazy, bit the only difference on routine (supps/diet/training) has been the addition of those vit and minerals... That is why I want to try dropping them and seeing if it makes any difference. I know it is rather crazy to think that calcium, magnesium, c, d3 could be making me retain bf/water.. But I have really looked back on my records and those are the only recent additions / changes to what I had beendoing for a long time with success..

  20. I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.
    I know. Which then goes back to the previous statement in which you politely pointed out that I am basket case haha

  22. Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only

  24. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only
    U take 10k iu of d3 a day?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    Thanks. Yea I just don't really like dairy products.. I used to have a cup of Greek yogurt or cott cheese a night, and was supplementing 1000mg calcium.. Blood showed my calcium levels were slightly above normal so I cut that in half and then it normalized in two weeks..

    I had a great balance but seemed to have lost it!
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