Training making me fat?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    Your issues likely have nothing to do with cortisol, especially since adrenal fatigue is not a real medical condition and you have not "overloaded your adrenals" by using stims over the years.

    For starters, your diet is not high fat at all. In fact, it is very low. Aim for about 80g of fat daily from here on out.
    I have been on stims, actually two at once for 5 years straight. Literally no breaks..before I got 'smart'er, I was on 1,3 dime based stims for months at a clip.. Now I at least cycle off those Every 8 weeks. Also used many harsh ph's with no knowledge of pct from age 18-20 (2006-2008) as well as win and var, no pct either, utterly stupid and unacceptable I know. Followed by endless months of OTC test boosters, 2 or 3 at once no joke.. No knowledge or resources like I have now.. this is why I believe there r underlying issues. Sorry if I sound like a broken record!

    And then the 80g thing I mentioned. So 1/5 of 80 ~16g sat. Fat?


  2. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    I have been on stims, actually two at once for 5 years straight. Literally no breaks..before I got 'smart'er, I was on 1,3 dime based stims for months at a clip.. Now I at least cycle off those Every 8 weeks. Also used many harsh ph's with no knowledge of pct from age 18-20 (2006-2008) as well as win and var, no pct either, utterly stupid and unacceptable I know. Followed by endless months of OTC test boosters, 2 or 3 at once no joke.. No knowledge or resources like I have now.. this is why I believe there r underlying issues. Sorry if I sound like a broken record!

    And then the 80g thing I mentioned. So 1/5 of 80 ~16g sat. Fat?
    Aim for 20g saturated fat. Get 2-3g combined epa/dha a day. Eat a balanced 6-9 diet the rest of the way.

    I don't mean to sound rude, but I think the underlying issue you referenced is psychological. Supplements have become a crutch for you, and that's just something you're going to need to work out on your own.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    Aim for 20g saturated fat. Get 2-3g combined epa/dha a day. Eat a balanced 6-9 diet the rest of the way.

    I don't mean to sound rude, but I think the underlying issue you referenced is psychological. Supplements have become a crutch for you, and that's just something you're going to need to work out on your own.
    Not rude at all- ur absolutely right.. Will start working towards those numbers.

  4. good to know !!
    You come in peace, but you go back in pieces

  5. Coop- I wanna start reducing supplement use.. For staples I have been using:
    Vitamin world men's sport - upon rising
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    B50 complex-upon rising/with dinner
    Calcium/mag/d3- with dinner
    Extra d3 1000iu-with dinner
    Vitamin c-500mg with dinner
    Magnesium-250mg with protein shake ~2 hours Pre bed
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    L tyrosine-500mg upon rising, 500mg mid day
    5htp-50-100mg at night (think might cause anxiety though, maybe move away from bed?)
    Sam e-200mg upon rising
    ALCAR-500 Pre, with dinner, with protein shake Pre bed

    As odd is it sounds, I'm considering cutting all of that out bc when I peaked last year in December and last summer.. I disnt use any of that (only multi, 5htp, alcar, tyrosine, Sam e, and b vit once daily) so im thinking none of the other stuff is necessary. But I don't have dairy, hence the calcium and vit d issue, also don't get much sun.. I'm a night person so do u think I should cut out the zinc, mag, calc, C, d3? And go back to one b50 a day?
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza
    Added carbs daily like u said coop.. Only got worse.. Got even softer.. I can't cut bf at all for some reason right now.. Even with heavy supps and increased cardio ... Tried every type of eating approach .. I'm just so confused, never had such An issue losing weight.. I've cut 5 pounds over night before! Just seems like the harder I go, the worse I look.. No definition/fullness in muscles.. Swollen/puffy/bloated stomach.. Just beyond frustrated and defeated now
    What carb sources did you add to your diet?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza

    What carb sources did you add to your diet?
    Brown rice, whole wheat High fiber flax wraps, fiber one cereal, some fruit like bananas and berries, Lots of chick peas, kidney, black beans, some cottage cheese n Greek yogurt

  8. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza

    Brown rice, whole wheat High fiber flax wraps, fiber one cereal, some fruit like bananas and berries, Lots of chick peas, kidney, black beans, some cottage cheese n Greek yogurt
    I know there's a lot disagreement around here regarding carb intake, glycemic index, calories in vs out, but over ten years of training and dieting I've found that I respond better to lower glycemic carb sources and it's not just a macro numbers game for me.

    If I were to consume white potato for the first two meals of the day I will actually begin to look soft and watery as the day progresses.

    If I eat the same amount of carbohydrates worth of oats in those first two meals, I don't get watery, in fact my muscles feel more "pumped". Same goes for brown rice.

    Some people can eat white rice and white potato and do very well with it. Unfortunately I can't and the glycemic index of foods does effect me substantially.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Clemenza

    I know there's a lot disagreement around here regarding carb intake, glycemic index, calories in vs out, but over ten years of training and dieting I've found that I respond better to lower glycemic carb sources and it's not just a macro numbers game for me.

    If I were to consume white potato for the first two meals of the day I will actually begin to look soft and watery as the day progresses.

    If I eat the same amount of carbohydrates worth of oats in those first two meals, I don't get watery, in fact my muscles feel more "pumped". Same goes for brown rice.

    Some people can eat white rice and white potato and do very well with it. Unfortunately I can't and the glycemic index of foods does effect me substantially.
    Right. Same for me. But much more extreme- high glycemic = look awful, low glyc= could get away with a day or two of less than 100g.. No carb is literally the only way I have ever been able to shed bf..

  10. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Coop- I wanna start reducing supplement use.. For staples I have been using:
    Vitamin world men's sport - upon rising
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    B50 complex-upon rising/with dinner
    Calcium/mag/d3- with dinner
    Extra d3 1000iu-with dinner
    Vitamin c-500mg with dinner
    Magnesium-250mg with protein shake ~2 hours Pre bed
    Zinc-30mg mid day
    L tyrosine-500mg upon rising, 500mg mid day
    5htp-50-100mg at night (think might cause anxiety though, maybe move away from bed?)
    Sam e-200mg upon rising
    ALCAR-500 Pre, with dinner, with protein shake Pre bed

    As odd is it sounds, I'm considering cutting all of that out bc when I peaked last year in December and last summer.. I disnt use any of that (only multi, 5htp, alcar, tyrosine, Sam e, and b vit once daily) so im thinking none of the other stuff is necessary. But I don't have dairy, hence the calcium and vit d issue, also don't get much sun.. I'm a night person so do u think I should cut out the zinc, mag, calc, C, d3? And go back to one b50 a day?
    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Got it. I've been off the 5htp since feb or march. Just started it back up a few days ago

  12. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69 View Post
    These supplements are mostly all fine. I was speaking more about the fat burners and testosterone boosters that you are on. Health related stuff is all fine in my books, though you should definitely be cycling the 5HTP.
    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    Dont cut calcium if you dont eat diary, theres not enough calcium in other foods types to provide daily intakes.

    Just a question, and no offence intended, and im sure youv answered this question before, but why so many vitamins and minerals? If you are eating a wide range of fruits and veges, meats etc, many of these are not needed. Excess doesnt mean better performance.

    some vitamins do have toxicity levels for excess doses, so just make sure you fall under the high level doses. Its not common to have toxicity issues, but excess supplementation can cause this.
    Yea my diet is admittedly the downfall of my physique and efforts.. Lots oif veggies and lean meats but little fruit and dairy.

  14. I know it sounds crazy, bit the only difference on routine (supps/diet/training) has been the addition of those vit and minerals... That is why I want to try dropping them and seeing if it makes any difference. I know it is rather crazy to think that calcium, magnesium, c, d3 could be making me retain bf/water.. But I have really looked back on my records and those are the only recent additions / changes to what I had beendoing for a long time with success..

  15. I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69
    I really see no way anything you listed would cause bloating, besides GI discomfort.
    I know. Which then goes back to the previous statement in which you politely pointed out that I am basket case haha

  17. Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only

  19. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    I like your posts in this section very much. Agreed on all counts. 10% BF on 10k IU D3 only
    U take 10k iu of d3 a day?

  20. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz
    Don't let your diet run your life. At the moment it just seems like you are having trouble finding the balance between diet and training.

    Just curious, why do you limit dairy produts from your diet? Allergies? Dislike? etc. while you continue to limit dairy, do not stop taking calcium unless you hit your daily intake from other foods (this would require ALOT of eating), so unless you eat like a horse, take the calcium. Besides from the bone health, a very samll amount of calcium is used in muscle contraction , limiting it (and if blood Ca levels are low) will cause you body to 'withdraw' calcium from the bones, which over long periods of time, will lead to osteoporosis as you may well be aware.

    I dont take any vitamins (in supplement form) and im at about 11%BF as of 2 weeks ago, hence they dont affect my form in any way, shape or uh, form.
    Thanks. Yea I just don't really like dairy products.. I used to have a cup of Greek yogurt or cott cheese a night, and was supplementing 1000mg calcium.. Blood showed my calcium levels were slightly above normal so I cut that in half and then it normalized in two weeks..

    I had a great balance but seemed to have lost it!

  21. Coop, could u explain the cycling guidelines of alcar and why it should be cycled, also of5htp, please.

  22. I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

    Tremors
    Insomnia
    Mood swings
    Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
    Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
    No interest in the gym

    Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

    You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

    Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by saggy321
    I'll post my thoughts based on my own recent experiences and research. I trained intensively on a five day on routine with HIT and followed a low carb and calories diet based upon' IF principles. After a month to six weeks I begin suffering from....

    Tremors
    Insomnia
    Mood swings
    Elevated resting heart rate (by 30%)
    Fat gain despite massive calorie deficit
    No interest in the gym

    Eventually I had to take time off work and the gym. I rested for three weeks whilst increasing calories and vitamin B, C and magnesium consumption. After all my research, I was certain that I had adrenal insufficiency. I looked and felt better after a three week break from the gym. I restarted the gym at the beginning of the 4th week and didn't push myself at all, training at only 50% of my normal schedule, both in volume and weight. I increased the intensity in the 6th week and towards the end of the week started struggling again, so I took another week off. Returned again was ok for a few weeks until I thought I had normalised and increased intensity...mistake again...I started looking softer, the muscles felt spongy etc. So now...rather than stop start, I've decided to take a good two month break from the gym. The temptation is just too strong for me to push myself when I'm in the gym....the adrenaline and endorphin release prevent me from gauging the stress I'm putting on my body and I only realise in the evening when I can't sleep due to the increase in stress hormones. My adrenal system needs time to recover and it needs more than a few weeks.

    You may be suffering from the same condition, albeit yours will not be as severe. I think you could do with a couple of weeks off and when you return not to go heavy or anywhere near failure and see how you feel at the end of the week.

    Your symptoms seem classic low testosterone to cortisol ratio and it will take your body time to normalise and build up the resilience to cope with the stresses of an intense routine.
    Hey thanks so much for posting. My training has remained intense honesty for the past 5 years now. It is only as of 2012 that I hVe taken scheduled week offs and had worked out through flu, fevers, ligament/joint issues, etc.. I was 100x more OCD then than I am now.

    I am the same with the intensity- my first week back I trained lighter, higher reps, and less sets.. But by the end of the week I was right back into full swing 5-7 sets, low rest, heavy weights, pounding cardio. My problem is I spend 2-2.5 hours sometimes 3 in the gym between cardio, abs, and weights.. 3-5 days. Some days will just do cardio for an hour, but even that "low intensity" is intense (4.5 mph/15 incline) But if I don't sweat I feel like I haven't worked out.

    I would LOVE to yield better results with LESS training, it is diet related, the training is mental. Too much training+poor diet=bad physical and mental state.

    I only fall asleep at exhaustion in the Earl AM hours. My school and work sched relives around this fact alone. All bc I need the energy to drone through the rigorous standards of workouts I have set forth. Raking a week off was a huge first step- 2 weeks or a month, or TWO... Would be like a preacher skipping chrich in my eyes! But hey, maybe I'll try it out when the time is right. Summer is not the time IMO.. Idk tho. I am trying to limit the stress of my training and eat more appropriately. I have started back on erase (pro) and after only 3 days I am beginning to lean out in my ONLY problem areas- chest/stomach. Which leads me to believe cortisol and estrogen/test are my issues. Too bad I can't get an endo to take me seriously.

  24. Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by rsnake21
    Damn bro you should seriously look into getting help. When working out starts to effect your life like it is, thats not good. That type of sh*t will kill you man.
    Yea I know.. I'm working through it, it's tough bc it's summer and I thought I had a great cutting/peaking plan, it never happened so I'm pretty discouraged.. I never really down shifted during the winter months for some reason and now I have reached the intensity ceiling.. So its been harder to cut now.. Yaknow. That's why I'm really frustrated.

  26. Review your diet plan, restructure your workouts and start over. Your body follows what you put your heart and mind into. If something doesnt work or it is making you feel discouraged, stop it, learn from it and move on.

    The more discouraged you feel or let yourself become, the more your body will follow. Demotivation never helped anyone accomplish anything.

    Think of it like the placebo effect, people train harder and get better results when they actively believe something is working for them when it may not be, because they think its working, they perform better. The opposite is true when you think negitively.

    Chnage your plan, switch up your routine and try again

  27. Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.

  28. wait wait wait... anyone who advises NOT to squat is a complete MORON not a genius. If you dont Squat, you might as well jazzercise.
    Log of EPIC by FRL - http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/202576-should-epic-frl.html

  29. Quote Originally Posted by chedapalooza View Post
    Ya. Did about 4 hours of reading on Vince gironda and all his methods.. IMO the guy is a genius. He hit all my issues on the head.. Running kills muscle and too much ab work actually causes water retention and swelling around the abs.. And messes with endocrine secretion. He preaches deciding if you are a weightlifter or BB, but cannot be both.. I want to be lean and aesthetically pleasing and confident.. Not a big for nothing mass who boasts meaningless numbers.. Vince didnt even allow his trainees to squat.. I have detested squatting for the very same reason as je did- makes your ass too big! And takes away from symmetry. I'm a rambling insomniatic mess right now.. But the change are imminent. And I'm sooo ready. Shorter workouts of 8x8, 10,8,6,15.. Others I need to research. 3 weeks on, one off protocol. 3 days no carbs with a cArb up every 4th. I'm gonna pick up a bunch of his booklets and apply his principles To a T.
    LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by mr.cooper69

    LOL jesus...this is some of the worst crap I've ever read. Invest your time in someone who isn't braindead.
    Clear PMs coop.
    Hardcore Purus Labs {Rep}
    Lift the fücking weight from the floor, or leave it on the ground. The thoughts are supposed to be daunting. The pain is meant to be tormenting.
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