Rotator Cuff Questions
- 06-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Q: Hey Joe,
First off. I've learned TONS of **** from your webpage and youtube videos and have applied it with great success for myself and my athletes. So thank you for being one of the FEW honest guys in the industry.
Obviously it's no secret you train football players. My question is if you were working with a quarterback would you change anything regarding shoulder work. I understand that lower body training would likely stay the same, but I was just wondering would you still have them bench pressing with a barbell or do you think that would be too stressful on the rotator cuff and shoulder joint in general? I guess to simplify what would change on a max effort upper body day for a quarterback?
I'm not one of those coaches that says, "I never let my quarterbacks perform barbell benches". I have no problem letting a quaterback barbell bench every now and then during the off-season, but it definitely shouldn't be the main focus. BTW, I don't think the barbell bench is as "bad" as most coaches think - as long as you're teaching your athletes to retract and depress their scapula, tuck their elbows, and 'push themselves through the bench' when pressing. This (proper) technique can drastically reduce the stress on the shoulder joint when barbell benching.
The reason the barbell bench press has been labelled a "dangerous" exercise for quarterbacks is because the barbell locks you into an 'internally rotated' position (pronated grip) and your hands cannot move freely (like they can with dumbells). This "fixed", internally rotated position is associated with impingement of the rotator cuff tendons. One "remedy" for this is to have your throwing athletes press with a neutral grip barbell. In order to go from a pronated grip to a neutral grip, you must supinate your hands/forearms (which means you are externally rotating the humerus). External rotation repositions the humeral head and gives the rotator cuff tendons more "wiggle room", without impingement, as you press the bar.
So to answer your question; if you're going to have your quarterbacks perform Max-Effort Upper Body workouts with the rest of the team, I'd suggest focussing on neutral bar pressing variations (flat, incline, floor, different grip widths, accomodating resistance, etc.) and/or dumbell press variations (5-7 rep range). Also, do not forget to incorporate push-up variations with your throwing athletes! (Although I suggust using the push-ups as more of a supplemental exercise.) Push-ups are classified as a closed-chain movement because the distal segment is fixed (hands on floor) and the proximal segment is moving (your body). Closed-chain movements will always be safer than open-chain movements. This is why push-ups are a big part of many shoulder rehabilitation programs.
According to DeFranco, athletes involving throwing like quarterbacks and pitchers should try to perform bench presses with their hands parallel (facing each other) due to the humerus being in such an internally rotated position during a flat bench press with a barbell.Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
- 06-11-2012, 08:12 PM
I do all of my DB chest presses with a slightly neutral grip to keep my elbows tucked and take stress off of my shoulders.M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-11-2012, 08:37 PM
Speaking of Joe Defranco, I've been doing 100 band pullaparts a day for shoulder health on his recommendation.
06-11-2012, 09:09 PM
06-11-2012, 09:32 PM
06-11-2012, 10:01 PM
06-11-2012, 10:54 PM
06-11-2012, 11:07 PM
06-12-2012, 01:43 AM
06-12-2012, 12:25 PM
2 week injury update -
It's been 2 weeks with no benchpress and no military press, I do rehab work at every workout, I stretch my external rotators every day, and I do 100 band pull aparts every day.
My shoulder feels fine during everyday activity and barely bothered me when I moved this weekend except when it was put in a really akward position. I tested it today at the gym and I could military press 30 lb dumbells with 0 pain, when I moved up to 40 I felt a dull ache in my left shoulder similar to how it felt for the first few weeks I ignored it and worked through it.
I can close grip benchpress, do push ups, and 1 armed pushups with no pain at all. I tried a few reps with 135 on bench and felt little to no pain as well. I also am taking no anti-inflammitories to mask the pain(save the "natural" kind in cissus and Animal Flex).
06-12-2012, 12:49 PM
06-12-2012, 02:34 PM
I actually have been incorporating Pec minor and major stretches in my daily routine.
I still can't touch my toes though as an aside.
06-12-2012, 03:40 PM
Yea flexibility is def a must man. Doing hard stretching after your workout especially. Try doing facepulls, overhead shrugs, and levator scapulae shrugs for high reps (15-20). Do them every other day to every 2 days. In between those do your regular lat movements. Like chins, lat pull downs, cable lat pushdowns. (All Unilateral). And Keep up with the stretches. Im on the same journey as you with my shoulder. Mine is way better now. I feel my seratus anteriors working a lot more since im stretching the pecs more.
06-12-2012, 03:41 PM
06-12-2012, 03:43 PM
06-15-2012, 07:52 PM
06-15-2012, 09:36 PM
06-21-2012, 08:16 PM
No real update except slight slight very small decrease in pain but I have a question.
Has anyone used DMSO for pain?
06-21-2012, 09:11 PM
06-29-2012, 07:47 PM
before doing shoulders make sure you also warmup and not just stretch. also make sure to hit all parts of the shoulder when working shoulders. that means exercises for front rear and side. i had a lot of problem with my rotator every couple of weeks and i found out i wasn't doing anything for my rear delts. after it healed i added some exercises for rear delts and haven't had a problem since.
06-30-2012, 02:40 PM
I have a permanent injury to my left rotator cuff and I find the pec dec to be very effective and it relieves alot of the ache pains I experience.
06-30-2012, 05:08 PM
06-30-2012, 08:15 PM
Update, I bench pressed pain free today. The only pain now is the mental pain from the low weight I have to lift after a month out.
I'm mature enough to realize benching 30lbs less is better than benching 0
Lbs because my shoulder is shot.
I got brave and tried doing a butterfly but that still hurt.
Not sure who it was asked to but my shoulder blades do wing out.
06-30-2012, 08:34 PM
Update to update:
My shoulders used to wing out a lot more, I looked at myself in the mirror(as I often do) and they are substantially less.
06-30-2012, 09:17 PM
You need to strengthen your subscapularis with internal rotations. Also your lower/mid traps and rhomboids with reverse flies, over head shrugs, row variations (all light weight with high reps). Only do direct external rotater work x 2 weekly. And keep doing pec minor/major stretches. This will help set the humerus head back and away from the acromian wall as well. Also throw in light pec flies as this will stretch the pecs in a positive manner.
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