Rotator Cuff Questions

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    Not trying to jack your thread or anything but since this seems to be going nicely I figured I'd try and get an idea of what my problem is. I injured my shoulder, assuming rotator cuff, during my shoulder workout day but I don't know what exercise it came from since I didn't feel any discomfort until that night. I can do all of my chest and back exercises perfectly fine with no pain or discomfort in my shoulder. The only time it hurts is if I try and throw something like a baseball or football or for military presses. Not really sure where to go with it right now.
    This is from Joe DeFranco.

    Q: Hey Joe,
    First off. I've learned TONS of **** from your webpage and youtube videos and have applied it with great success for myself and my athletes. So thank you for being one of the FEW honest guys in the industry.

    Obviously it's no secret you train football players. My question is if you were working with a quarterback would you change anything regarding shoulder work. I understand that lower body training would likely stay the same, but I was just wondering would you still have them bench pressing with a barbell or do you think that would be too stressful on the rotator cuff and shoulder joint in general? I guess to simplify what would change on a max effort upper body day for a quarterback?

    Thanks man!

    Justin B.



    A:
    Justin,


    I'm not one of those coaches that says, "I never let my quarterbacks perform barbell benches". I have no problem letting a quaterback barbell bench every now and then during the off-season, but it definitely shouldn't be the main focus. BTW, I don't think the barbell bench is as "bad" as most coaches think - as long as you're teaching your athletes to retract and depress their scapula, tuck their elbows, and 'push themselves through the bench' when pressing. This (proper) technique can drastically reduce the stress on the shoulder joint when barbell benching.

    The reason the barbell bench press has been labelled a "dangerous" exercise for quarterbacks is because the barbell locks you into an 'internally rotated' position (pronated grip) and your hands cannot move freely (like they can with dumbells). This "fixed", internally rotated position is associated with impingement of the rotator cuff tendons. One "remedy" for this is to have your throwing athletes press with a neutral grip barbell. In order to go from a pronated grip to a neutral grip, you must supinate your hands/forearms (which means you are externally rotating the humerus). External rotation repositions the humeral head and gives the rotator cuff tendons more "wiggle room", without impingement, as you press the bar.

    So to answer your question; if you're going to have your quarterbacks perform Max-Effort Upper Body workouts with the rest of the team, I'd suggest focussing on neutral bar pressing variations (flat, incline, floor, different grip widths, accomodating resistance, etc.) and/or dumbell press variations (5-7 rep range). Also, do not forget to incorporate push-up variations with your throwing athletes! (Although I suggust using the push-ups as more of a supplemental exercise.) Push-ups are classified as a closed-chain movement because the distal segment is fixed (hands on floor) and the proximal segment is moving (your body). Closed-chain movements will always be safer than open-chain movements. This is why push-ups are a big part of many shoulder rehabilitation programs.


    According to DeFranco, athletes involving throwing like quarterbacks and pitchers should try to perform bench presses with their hands parallel (facing each other) due to the humerus being in such an internally rotated position during a flat bench press with a barbell.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS


  2. I do all of my DB chest presses with a slightly neutral grip to keep my elbows tucked and take stress off of my shoulders.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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  3. Speaking of Joe Defranco, I've been doing 100 band pullaparts a day for shoulder health on his recommendation.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    This is from Joe DeFranco.
    Yeah, I only ever do DB bench presses because barbell presses always seemed to bug my shoulders. My shoulders have never been too great so I'd always warm up my rotator cuff beforehand. Never had any problems until my last shoulder workout where I think I may have hyperextended something in my shoulder when hitting my rear delts/upper back. I'm going to be taking a high dose of fish oils starting tomorrow to see if inflammation has anything to do with it.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    Yeah, I only ever do DB bench presses because barbell presses always seemed to bug my shoulders. My shoulders have never been too great so I'd always warm up my rotator cuff beforehand. Never had any problems until my last shoulder workout where I think I may have hyperextended something in my shoulder when hitting my rear delts/upper back. I'm going to be taking a high dose of fish oils starting tomorrow to see if inflammation has anything to do with it.
    99% of the time, it's bc people do not know how to bench properly and have an imbalance in internal:external rotators.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    99% of the time, it's bc people do not know how to bench properly and have an imbalance in internal:external rotators.
    I know how to bench properly since watching Dave Tate's videos a couple years back. My shoulders pop/feel uncomfortable even when I do side or front arm raises. It's nothing to do with BB benching itself. My shoulders are just pretty meh in general.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    I know how to bench properly since watching Dave Tate's videos a couple years back. My shoulders pop/feel uncomfortable even when I do side or front arm raises. It's nothing to do with BB benching itself. My shoulders are just pretty meh in general.
    That's the aforementioned imbalance in the internal:external rotators.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  8. Alright, thanks! I'll start doing rotator exercises starting tomorrow along with high doses of Omega 3's and see if that helps out my shoulder. I'll let you guys know how it goes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This. Very, very rarely have I seen anyone need any internal rotation work since they are heavily used in presses and pulldowns/pullups.

    It sounds like the OP has some shoulder protraction issues and this is the best, yet simple, article to address this:
    http://www.mindandmuscle.net/article...-the-shoulder/
    I passed this so at least I know that that isn't the problem for me.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    99% of the time, it's bc people do not know how to bench properly and have an imbalance in internal:external rotators.
    You are exactly right. 99% of the people with shoulder problems are those with imbalance in their internal and external rotators.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS

  10. 2 week injury update -
    It's been 2 weeks with no benchpress and no military press, I do rehab work at every workout, I stretch my external rotators every day, and I do 100 band pull aparts every day.

    My shoulder feels fine during everyday activity and barely bothered me when I moved this weekend except when it was put in a really akward position. I tested it today at the gym and I could military press 30 lb dumbells with 0 pain, when I moved up to 40 I felt a dull ache in my left shoulder similar to how it felt for the first few weeks I ignored it and worked through it.

    I can close grip benchpress, do push ups, and 1 armed pushups with no pain at all. I tried a few reps with 135 on bench and felt little to no pain as well. I also am taking no anti-inflammitories to mask the pain(save the "natural" kind in cissus and Animal Flex).

  11. Start stretching your pecs alot more!!! Especially your pec minors!!! Thats step 1.

  12. I actually have been incorporating Pec minor and major stretches in my daily routine.
    I still can't touch my toes though as an aside.

  13. Yea flexibility is def a must man. Doing hard stretching after your workout especially. Try doing facepulls, overhead shrugs, and levator scapulae shrugs for high reps (15-20). Do them every other day to every 2 days. In between those do your regular lat movements. Like chins, lat pull downs, cable lat pushdowns. (All Unilateral). And Keep up with the stretches. Im on the same journey as you with my shoulder. Mine is way better now. I feel my seratus anteriors working a lot more since im stretching the pecs more.

  14. Oh use 3-4 sets

  15. And rotator cuff stretches after your bench/chest days as well

  16. Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    Alright, thanks! I'll start doing rotator exercises starting tomorrow along with high doses of Omega 3's and see if that helps out my shoulder. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
    Just thought I'd let you guys know that my shoulder is doing much better and by the time next week rolls around it looks like I'll be good to go with my regular routine. Thanks for the help!

  17. Mine is too. These shoulder dislocations work like magic as well as pec minor stretching

  18. No real update except slight slight very small decrease in pain but I have a question.

    Has anyone used DMSO for pain?

  19. Quote Originally Posted by rambo679 View Post
    No real update except slight slight very small decrease in pain but I have a question.

    Has anyone used DMSO for pain?
    I've heard of people using it, but I don't have any personal experience with it. I do like the capsaicin rollon, though.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  20. before doing shoulders make sure you also warmup and not just stretch. also make sure to hit all parts of the shoulder when working shoulders. that means exercises for front rear and side. i had a lot of problem with my rotator every couple of weeks and i found out i wasn't doing anything for my rear delts. after it healed i added some exercises for rear delts and haven't had a problem since.

  21. I have a permanent injury to my left rotator cuff and I find the pec dec to be very effective and it relieves alot of the ache pains I experience.

  22. Maybe you have a weak subscapularis. Do your shoulder blades wing out by any chance?

  23. Update, I bench pressed pain free today. The only pain now is the mental pain from the low weight I have to lift after a month out.

    I'm mature enough to realize benching 30lbs less is better than benching 0
    Lbs because my shoulder is shot.

    I got brave and tried doing a butterfly but that still hurt.

    Not sure who it was asked to but my shoulder blades do wing out.

  24. Update to update:
    My shoulders used to wing out a lot more, I looked at myself in the mirror(as I often do) and they are substantially less.

  25. You need to strengthen your subscapularis with internal rotations. Also your lower/mid traps and rhomboids with reverse flies, over head shrugs, row variations (all light weight with high reps). Only do direct external rotater work x 2 weekly. And keep doing pec minor/major stretches. This will help set the humerus head back and away from the acromian wall as well. Also throw in light pec flies as this will stretch the pecs in a positive manner.
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