[hypo]

I've been following the MaxOT approach to training, and am starting my 7th week today. My major compound exercises have been progressing very well, but some of the complimenting isolation exercises have stayed the same weight throughout the past 6 weeks. They might go up 5 pounds one week if I'm having a good workout, and then drop back down the next.

My question however is not so much geared towards my situation so much as bodybuilding in general. As long as I'm in the 4-6 rep range as suggested by MaxOT, and my muscle is indeed doing it's maximum capacity even though the weight is not going up, am I still going to grow? I know one should shoot for increasing either weight or reps every workout, but as I said earlier, my major compound exercises are progressing nicely (bench, squat, shoulder press, etc).

Anyway, if you need my workout schedule or anything to help me out let me know!

Thanks, Brian

[jminis]

Well that's hard to answer but basically size doesn't necessarily come with strength. If your compound lifts are steadily going up will you get bigger, most likely yes. However lifting for size and strength are different animals in my eyes. Lifting for size has a different rep range and also focuses more on TUT of muscles. Like explosive but controlled positives and slow negatives like 3-5seconds or more. I'd go more into it but I gotta go get a haircut, yes at 9:00pm that's how we do it in philly, on the porch in the style, bobo knows what I'm talking about

[Dan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only type of size gain that that comes without a strength gain is a result of increased nutrient storage and sarcomere enlargement, mitochondial density increases, etc. So in other words, when the muscle fibers themselves are not actually becoming thicker/ more numerous. I may be wrong on this though. Of course, just because you are getting stronger doesn't mean you are getting bigger either since it could just be from improved nerve signaling.

[Matthew D]

you can get stronger without a size increase as Jminis said.. but even with a small increase in size you are going to get some increase in strength.. also.. if you are using a quantitative look at size, ie actual measurements, then you might see a smaller increase in size but perception of the change could be a very big change in your size. Humans are like other animals at being able to pick up on small changes in the body of others.. IMO

[J. Peterman]

Originally Posted by Dan

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only type of size gain that that comes without a strength gain is a result of increased nutrient storage and sarcomere enlargement, mitochondial density increases, etc. So in other words, when the muscle fibers themselves are not actually becoming thicker/ more numerous. I may be wrong on this though. Of course, just because you are getting stronger doesn't mean you are getting bigger either since it could just be from improved nerve signaling.

Genreally yes, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy will increase nutrient capacity withouth effecting strength that much (you will get a slight increase). Myofibrillar hypertrophy will increase in both strenght and size because of increased thickness of muscle fibers.


Back to the first post, if your strenght is increasing then decreasing I would check your diet, not your training program.

[DougMan]

As someone who had stuck with Max-OT for quite a while (around 1.5 years) i can say that it does add muscle. But as you mentioned that the amount of weight you can use can seem to fluxate. I asked IA about this and he said alot of the strength gains come about as a result of the CNS system adapting and not so much new muscle. This makes perfect sense as I lift a lot heavier than most guys in my gym (its a college gym, so a lot of the kids are pretty soft) but yet am not one of the bigger guys there (I guess TUT would also apply).

IA wasnt being techincal when he was talking to me so I am sure there is more to that arguement, but I like him to dumb things down for me

[J. Peterman]

Its nueral stimulation. Its common with strength athletes. Very heavy weight with low explosive reps. That type of stimulus is not condusive to growth.

"IA wasnt being techincal "

There's a surprise.

[Scottyo]

Back to the first post...you mentioned that your primary excercises were all going up, but you were worried about isolation excercises, correct? If this is the case, it may just be that by the time you reach secondary excercises (the isolation I assume) your muscles are already somewhat tired and thus do not increase as frequently. Even dropping a few pounds is common if you already worked the muscle hard earlier in the workout. If this is the case, Bobo is probably right in that there might be some weakness in your diet. Also, a pre- or during workout shake, or even longer rest breaks may be in order if this is a priority.

[hypo]

I do work back before bis, chest before tris, etc. I don't really mind if my isolations don't go up since I'm a bodybuilder not a powerlifter anyway, I just wanted to know if I would still grow with those weights staying the same

My diet is good but not perfect. i've improved on it greatly in the last few months but I'll try to eat even more.

[hypo]

Here's a thought, what does everyone think about cutting tri and bi exercises almost entirely, as long as they get worked with the chest and back exercises intensely enough?

For example, after DB press, bench press, and dips, my triceps are usually pretty burned. Instead of doing three more exercises for the tris, how would it be to only do one good one like the JM press? That way the tris have really seen four exercises, directly or indirectly.

I'm just thinking aloud here, any thoughts?

[Chunky]

Hypo :

This is how Im doing. After my chest training, I add 3-4 sets for my triceps, and that's all.

[DougMan]

Originally Posted by Bobo

Its nueral stimulation. Its common with strength athletes. Very heavy weight with low explosive reps. That type of stimulus is not condusive to growth.

"IA wasnt being techincal "

There's a surprise.

Haha I included that part just for you Coz I knew if I didnt you would tear it apart about how it is an over simplification and what not. I dont know why you feel obligated to go after him at every chance you get. I dont think it does this board or yourself any favors. But its your board so do as you wish.

[J. Peterman]

Originally Posted by DougMan

Haha I included that part just for you Coz I knew if I didnt you would tear it apart about how it is an over simplification and what not. I dont know why you feel obligated to go after him at every chance you get. I dont think it does this board or yourself any favors. But its your board so do as you wish.

When I see bullshit, I tend to clean it up. If you don't like it, thats your problem.

The board is doing just fine. In fact there is less "bullshit" and drama.