Inner/outer chest?

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by jmdunni;2909642[B
    ]I do personal training and group fitness instruction. I overhear many*** conversations in the gym regarding why and how certain exercises are so effective. It pisses me off how much ignorance floats in a gym and how many people believe it. [/B]Then it's the fitness professional (ie many of you reading this) to correct their mistake and put out any potential fires. It's simple...you wouldn't pretend to fix a space shuttle just because you've changed the oil in your car.
    I've given up on trying to help people out to understand. If you're not telling the what they want to hear, or if its challenging everything they've read in their lifting career (which, unfortunately is quite limited to muscle and fitness, generally), then anything you say goes in one ear and out the other. Its a waste of my own energy

    Br


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump View Post
    This doesn't make sense to me. If your shoulders hurt during BP, something's wrong. You should be pinching your shoulder blades back and using proper form to focus on pressing mainly with the chest. The only joint that hurts for me during BP is my elbow, and that's ONLY when I am going for maxes. If you're trying to build chest, you shouldn't be going for max weight or even really ultra heavy weight. Drop the weight down and don't use your delts to press, focus on proper form. If you need to, pre-exhaust your delts before benching.
    It's where the weight is. Since the bar is so long it forces more shoulder stabilization. Get it? Doing presses on the floor can really help support your shoulders better. I personally think most benches are not wide enough. Also as far as benching goes if you have long arms there's a longer distance of stabilation involved and more strain on the shoulder. There's definetely a dis-advantage. Bench press works better for the shorter guys with shorter arms cause the bench supports them better as well as there's less shoulder stabilization involved.
    ôLord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life"- John 6:68

    WHAT has science offered?
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  3. jmdunni
    jmdunni's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I've given up on trying to help people out to understand. If you're not telling the what they want to hear, or if its challenging everything they've read in their lifting career (which, unfortunately is quite limited to muscle and fitness, generally), then anything you say goes in one ear and out the other. Its a waste of my own energy

    Br
    Very true. It's sad when the people that actually know this stuff are trumped by the gym rats that get any sort of "factual" information from biased articles by companies trying to sell you a product.
  4. purebred
    purebred's Avatar

    Grab the bar at a width that feels comfortable/natural (20" grip" works for me) and focus on increasing your bench. Your chest will respond accordingly. Remembering to always emphasize discouraging muscle imbalances with a balanced training program. That is, if you're benching, you should be rowing as well.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    I've given up on trying to help people out to understand. If you're not telling the what they want to hear, or if its challenging everything they've read in their lifting career (which, unfortunately is quite limited to muscle and fitness, generally), then anything you say goes in one ear and out the other. Its a waste of my own energy

    Br
    Exactly why I don't bother with it most of the time.
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  6. purebred
    purebred's Avatar

    For the record (and to minimize perpetuation of any more irritating myths), the only true exercise that 'destroys' any articulation (joint) in the body or brings forth any sort of injury is the exercise that is executed with poor form & lacks proper technique. Push-ups with added resistance are no healthier for your shoulders than the bench press performed with flared elbows, etc.

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Flaw View Post
    It's where the weight is. Since the bar is so long it forces more shoulder stabilization. Get it? Doing presses on the floor can really help support your shoulders better. I personally think most benches are not wide enough. Also as far as benching goes if you have long arms there's a longer distance of stabilation involved and more strain on the shoulder. There's definetely a dis-advantage. Bench press works better for the shorter guys with shorter arms cause the bench supports them better as well as there's less shoulder stabilization involved.
    Ahh I see what you mean now. Yeah most benches seem a lil narrow. These days I try to grip about an inch wider (each side) than I would normally. I get better stabilization and less pressure on my triceps/elbow this way (where my issue is).

    I also have really long arms, I'm 6'2 and burdened with long limbs. The wider grip seems to help a bit, or getting help to take it off the rack to get started when going heavy.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by purebred View Post
    For the record (and to minimize perpetuation of any more irritating myths), the only true exercise that 'destroys' any articulation (joint) in the body or brings forth any sort of injury is the exercise that is executed with poor form & lacks proper technique. Push-ups with added resistance are no healthier for your shoulders than the bench press performed with flared elbows, etc.
    I completely agree, and every famous bodybuilder that i have listened to either from an article, youtube, or lifting video ALL have said that either incline or bench press is the best exercise for overall chest development. Ronnice coleman loved bench, branch warren loved incline, but never once have i heard a famous bodybuilder say "ya i got this sweet chest doing pushups, ya screw bench it is so bad for your joints, and pushups are far more effective" LOLOLOLOLOL

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Movin_weight View Post
    I guess I'm referring more to muscle damage than actual motor recruitment. I agree you cannot target the recruitment of motor neurons in different parts of a single muscle. What i'm not sure about is whether or not different angles, exercises, contraction length etc... create more stress tension on various parts of a single muscle (i.e. the inner/outer portion of the pec major). And if so, would this lead to more muscle damage and hypertrophy of a particular portion of the pec or not.
    Very interesting premise.

    I know that the majority of fiber damage and microtears occurs during eccentric (negative) contraction. The greatest amount of contraction force happens when the muscle is approximately halfway lengthened/shortened. This is passive length tension relationship. Therefore I would think that the greatest amount of muscle fiber damage would occur during an eccentric movement with the most amount of weight possible, when the pec major is at that halfway point. And Im pretty sure the actin and myosin filaments that the muscle fibers consist of are ALL lengthened/shortened to the same degree during a movement.

    The only variable I can think of is angle. The sternal fibers (inner chest) run in a horizontal fashion. This arrangement is most emphasized upon during "D-2 PNF pattern". Basically thats when the arm is reached dpwn across the body towards the opposite leg. Exercises that would incorporate this movement are decline bench, dips, cable crossovers- in this particular pattern of course. Incline and flat presses will emphasize moreso on the "top-middle" and top of the chest.

    Now dont confuse what Im saying for "isolating" a certain portion of the chest. Impossible, because as stated before, its one muscle and is innervated by the same nerve root.

    Nonetheless, movin weight, I honor your curiosity and I agree that there should be a study done.
    Suffer now.. and live like a champion later.

  10. I can target them for DOMS...but I can't make one part grow more than the others. No matter what I target they grow together so it's a waste of time to isolate pecs imo.

    Incline makes upper hurt, doing super wide flies makes the outer hurt, crossovers hurts the inner, grip width affects it on flat, etc. But I don't notice one part of my pec lagging really.

  11. When I bench close grip for inner pecs and tris, .wide grip for wide outer part of chest

  12. Isn't a wide/narrow grip only manipulating triceps-vs.-pectoralis major recruitment? Seeing as the fibers run on a longitudinal axis (correct me if this is the wrong axis, trying to remember)...proximal/distal portions cannot be isolated, correct?

  13. Exactly rex. I discussed a little earlier how the fiber attachment site may play some role in the feeling of DOMS in inner vs. outers.

    Vary grips from shoulder width to 2x acromium span changes the recruitment from sternal head (grip 1-1.25X acromium span) to clavicular head (1.25 - 1.75 acromium span) to anterior deltoids (>1.75 acromium span), as well as differences in tricep recruitment.
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