Bench... breaking 90° on barbell

[Onnoc]

Talking to someone here... a bench coach of all people suggests not breaking 90° on barbell lifts because it starts recruiting more shoulders and less chest. Just curious as to what everyone elses take is on this... well less of their take and more of what they know if you could be so kind.

If there is truth to this I may have to start looking down this path as much as I don't want to. Shoulder injuries are a plenty for myself and if this could be a preventative measure I would have to set my pride aside to assess the risk/reward.

Thank you ahead of time.

-Onnoc

 

[MM11]

IMO bench is a compound lift, not a chest exercise. The purpose is to use shoulders, chest, tris, and lats.

 

[waynaferd]

I just barely touch chest with the bar, and don't ever lock out my elbows, so no full ROM for me, and I'm getting better pumps with less aches in the elbows and shoulders, and can put up a little bit heavier number.

So I agree with the not breaking 90*, but almost everybody recommends a full ROM, except a good amount of IFBB pros. Weird.

 

[ohiostate2827]

i never lock out in any exercise..only time i lock out is when i do a powerlifting meet..and so far so good no aches or pains

 

[bezoe]

Your lifting coach is correct. Bring the bar down to where it is comfortable. If anybody tells you you have to touch your chest theyre full of nonsense. Unless youre training for powerlifting, in which case youll be required to do so, touching the chest or breaking 90 is not necessary- in fact its idiotic, for numerous reasons: you put your pectoral muscles in a fully lengthened, non-advantageous position to elicit a strong contraction; You put immense amount of strain (directly dependent to the length of your upper arm) on your glenohumeral anterior capsule and the surrounding structures like ligaments and tendons; Because your pectorals is in a nonoptimal position to initiate the lift, the anterior deltoid, biceps, supraspinatus, and coricobrachialis are all gonna try and help and those small, weaker muscles are put at risk for injury.

 

[bezoe]

i never lock out in any exercise..only time i lock out is when i do a powerlifting meet..and so far so good no aches or pains

Agreed. Locking out isnt necessary either

 

[HereToStudy]

:goodposts)

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

I always touch my chest, but I also don't/can't go heavy on bench. I still feel my pecs get a good stretch past the 90° point. Seems like I'm getting better development also. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Talking to someone here... a bench coach of all people suggests not breaking 90° on barbell lifts because it starts recruiting more shoulders and less chest. Just curious as to what everyone elses take is on this... well less of their take and more of what they know if you could be so kind.

If there is truth to this I may have to start looking down this path as much as I don't want to. Shoulder injuries are a plenty for myself and if this could be a preventative measure I would have to set my pride aside to assess the risk/reward.

Thank you ahead of time.

-Onnoc

It really depends on the individual. The bench press "endpoint" is technically when one's elbows are at 90 degree flexion. However, there's nothing wrong with going further than that - some people cannot complete the exercise with full range of motion due to a lack of flexibility or poor form. Personally, I always go as far down as I can (whether using regular or close-grip), unless I am lifting a lot heavier and do not have a spotter - then I may go to 90 degrees, which for me I consider this to be a "half-rep", even though it is not. As someone mentioned earlier, the bench press is a COMPOUND exercise. In the end, it is up to the individual, and their goals and needs.

~Rosie~

 

[Onnoc]

I appreciate all the feed back on this. I tore my rotator cuff a few years back and it has never been the same (military doctors are military doctors for a reason: no law suits). I started going fairly heavy again for the first time since, and getting back into the 275/295/315 range for reps, full rep touching the chest, my shoulder was beginning to give out once again.

That being said, I am on a month off of chest and shoulder exercises with rotator cuff training, and was just looking to find what would be the best solution when I go back into chest and shoulder workouts.

Once again, the feed back is immensely appreciated. Unfortunately I am still weighing the options for post-deployment on not breaking 90° or going to chest and just building up at a more gradual pace.

Happy New Years
-Onnoc

 

[bluehealer]

It really depends on the individual. The bench press "endpoint" is technically when one's elbows are at 90 degree flexion. However, there's nothing wrong with going further than that - some people cannot complete the exercise with full range of motion due to a lack of flexibility or poor form. Personally, I always go as far down as I can (whether using regular or close-grip), unless I am lifting a lot heavier and do not have a spotter - then I may go to 90 degrees, which for me I consider this to be a "half-rep", even though it is not. As someone mentioned earlier, the bench press is a COMPOUND exercise. In the end, it is up to the individual, and their goals and needs.

~Rosie~

Rosie, this brings up more questions for me. My shoulders measure 22" across, my grip on the bar is 36" wide. Would you consider this normal or wide? And, what is considered close grip?

Jim

 

[SRS2000]

Do an internet search for the "So you think you can bench" video series by Dave Tate. It will break down every aspect of bench press technique and show you how maximize not only your poundages, but also your safety. The shoulder issues associated with the bench press are partially because of poor technique and partially due to the exercise itself. Most people have poor technique that puts unneccessary stress on the shoulders. The problem I've always found with stopping at some arbitrary point without touching the chest is that as the weight gets heavier, the range of motion gets smaller approximately 100% of the time. I think you should touch your chest (with proper technique) unless you just absolutely cannot due to injury. If you choose not to, then I recommend stuffing something under your shirt (half a foam roller, 1 or 2 board, some other small pad) to give yourself a target so you are touching it (not bouncing off it) with each rep.

 

[CJPopovich]

Do an internet search for the "So you think you can bench" video series by Dave Tate. It will break down every aspect of bench press technique and show you how maximize not only your poundages, but also your safety. The shoulder issues associated with the bench press are partially because of poor technique and partially due to the exercise itself. Most people have poor technique that puts unneccessary stress on the shoulders. The problem I've always found with stopping at some arbitrary point without touching the chest is that as the weight gets heavier, the range of motion gets smaller approximately 100% of the time. I think you should touch your chest (with proper technique) unless you just absolutely cannot due to injury. If you choose not to, then I recommend stuffing something under your shirt (half a foam roller, 1 or 2 board, some other small pad) to give yourself a target so you are touching it (not bouncing off it) with each rep.

Excellent post, I agree 100%. Repped.

 

[Rodja]

If you want to be able to have functioning shoulders, then don't go past 90, do your pre-hab, and work your posterior delts/mid-traps every upper-body training session.

 

[Rosie Chee]

Rosie, this brings up more questions for me. My shoulders measure 22" across, my grip on the bar is 36" wide. Would you consider this normal or wide? And, what is considered close grip?

Jim

Jim, I would consider that a slightly wider grip - in saying that, for my "normal" grip, I have my hands placed outside my shoulders when I do bench press (for chest) as well, so this could be fairly normal. Your hands should be placed re "'normal" so that when your upper arms are parallel with the ground, your elbows are at 90 degrees.

Close-grip is when you have your hands closer together - for me, I have not even a fist separating them on the barbell. Close-grip targets the triceps more, and instead of your elbows going out (i.e. to the side), they come in (i.e. down) during the movement.

You can google to see different variations of the movement.

~Rosie~

 

[bluehealer]

Jim, I would consider that a slightly wider grip - in saying that, for my "normal" grip, I have my hands placed outside my shoulders when I do bench press (for chest) as well, so this could be fairly normal. Your hands should be placed re "'normal" so that when your upper arms are parallel with the ground, your elbows are at 90 degrees.

Close-grip is when you have your hands closer together - for me, I have not even a fist separating them on the barbell. Close-grip targets the triceps more, and instead of your elbows going out (i.e. to the side), they come in (i.e. down) during the movement.

You can google to see different variations of the movement.

~Rosie~

I thought shoulder width was close grip. That's why I go wide, no wonder my max sucks. Thank you Rosie!

 

[Rosie Chee]

I thought shoulder width was close grip. That's why I go wide, no wonder my max sucks. Thank you Rosie!

Nope, not close-grip - although everyone's close-grip is going to be individual to them (not everyone may feel as comfortable as I do placing my hands together). The wider your hand grip, the more you might be able to lift though, just from personal experience.

~Rosie~

 

[bluehealer]

Nope, not close-grip - although everyone's close-grip is going to be individual to them (not everyone may feel as comfortable as I do placing my hands together). The wider your hand grip, the more you might be able to lift though, just from personal experience.

~Rosie~

When you get too wide the weight gets lower but it puts some serious burn on the pecks.

 

[Rosie Chee]

When you get too wide the weight gets lower but it puts some serious burn on the pecks.

Everyone is different - although too wide or too narrow has the potential to decrease the load lifted, since they are not really "optimal" positions. The bench press is supposed to stress the pectorals, LOL

~Rosie~

 

[Onnoc]

When I get back to a not-so-terrible internet I'm going to have to watch those videos. I hope I learn something new that can benefit me. If I do happen to learn something I will be upset with some past coaches.

 

[bmcjames]

It all depends on your personal goals.

There is no one size fits all.

For my personal goals (bench is for chest only)
I lower bar till just a tad below 90* (about 3" off my chest) then to all but lockout (I don't lockout to minimize tricep involvement)

Been working wonders for me. I am up from a 42" chest to just now cracking 46" in 24 weeks

 

[Jstrong20]

Always touch my chest. I bench like a powerlifter with shoulders pinned back and a slight arch.

 

[benswogger]

Personally I like to go just a bit deeper than 90 because as it was mentioned earlier the bench is a compound lift which includes the shoulders and I feel I get a little more work in the shoulders if I break 90. That being said I agree that it's not at all necessary...mostly personal preference

 

[bezoe]

That being said, I am on a month off of chest and shoulder exercises with rotator cuff training, and was just looking to find what would be the best solution when I go back into chest and shoulder workouts.

Happy New Years
-Onnoc

Dont do flat barbell

If you want to be able to have functioning shoulders, then don't go past 90, do your pre-hab, and work your posterior delts/mid-traps every upper-body training session.

Yep, gotta prevent those muscle imbalances, especially when doing heavy presses

 

[waynaferd]

I really like decline bench, too....I did advanced 5x5 on an mdrol-pplex bridge and the crazy strength gains killed my shoulders, so decline with no full ROM....great pumps and can feel it all over the pec....just something to try if your shoulders hurt....

 

[ZamaMan]

I say don't be a ***** and use full range of motion(granted you can do so injury free). Even if focus shifts slightly more to shoulders. Chest is a compound movement So you got more than just pecs to worry about.

If your want more chest fiber recruitment stop wasting time worrying about when you should stop and worry about technique. And no I don't mean by watching that video previously mentioned, which is good btw but not talking about hypertrophy per say, and go read Lyle mcdonalds article "how to Bench with the chest". You gotta focus on how your chest works and not trying to push the bar away as much trying to use your chest to brin your arms in. Anyways just started using his tips mentioned in the article and it does get me more soar and fatigued.

 

[Movin_weight]

The Tate video makes some good points especially about keeping the elbows tucked in. As soon as your elbows flare out you put alot of strain on the internal rotators of the shoulder and risk cuff injury.

I benched with elbows flared, wide grip, and took the bar to my chest for several years and always struggled with shoulder injuries. As soon as I started tucking my elbows, narrowed my grip, and started bringing the bar to an inch above my chest... Injury stopped, My chest blew up and strength increased.

There is no need to touch your chest IMO, but only going to 90 would leave the bar about 10'' above my chest, so I don't think that's far enough for me personally.

But the stretch you get from using full rom can easily be acheived with flys, so why risk injury with bench

 

[votum]

Rosie, this brings up more questions for me. My shoulders measure 22" across, my grip on the bar is 36" wide. Would you consider this normal or wide? And, what is considered close grip?

Jim

Jim, I only touch my chest when using a light weight, 135 or so, which I know I can do 20+ reps. I only touch my chest for a slow concentrated 10 reps. I try full ROM at like 185 and 225 but I always do like 1-5 reps full ROM and then finish off my set doing 90 degrees.

I feel the same on squats, its up to your body to be honest, 90 degrees is ideal, but some people have longer legs than upper body, like me, and its near impossible to go 90 degrees when using a heavy weight. I end up at like 75 degrees or so when I squat above 300, I can do 95 on 225 and 135 easy, but above 300 it just hurts my back too much. I always try to do my compound movements naked, without any accessories so I never use a belt. I use versa gripps for deadlifts though because my wrists are just too small to handle more than 250. I can only get like one rep or so with 315 before my calluses hurt like hell. I am no competing power lifter so I don't consider these half reps. I still feel bad when I cant do full ROM but I understand its just not possible sometimes.

 

[GeekPoop]

arch back, keep tight, and keep elbows in. shouldnt have a problem

 

[jin]

The Tate video makes some good points especially about keeping the elbows tucked in. As soon as your elbows flare out you put alot of strain on the internal rotators of the shoulder and risk cuff injury.

I benched with elbows flared, wide grip, and took the bar to my chest for several years and always struggled with shoulder injuries. As soon as I started tucking my elbows, narrowed my grip, and started bringing the bar to an inch above my chest... Injury stopped, My chest blew up and strength increased.

There is no need to touch your chest IMO, but only going to 90 would leave the bar about 10'' above my chest, so I don't think that's far enough for me personally.

But the stretch you get from using full rom can easily be acheived with flys, so why risk injury with bench

x2, x2, x2, and x2

 

[blackcj7]

depends on your overall goals for bench press and your technique......

 

[GeekPoop]

depends on your overall goals for bench press and your technique......

kinda like 1/4 squats huh? :lol:

 

[blackcj7]

I think there are a lot better options for quad development then 1/4 squats

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

I think there are a lot better options for quad development then 1/4 squats

Psh, that's not what my quads are sayin.

 

[blackcj7]

I wish my quads talked, but I'm pretty sure they would tell me never to do GVT again

 

[smith22]

im gonna say it goes with personal goals..... but dont you hate those people who put on like 315 and go a couple inches down and come out saying they repped 315 for 5 jeez i cant stand that iv always liked touching the chest... wat do u guys think about pause presses? resting the bar on chest for a couple seconds then finishing the press im sure it puts alot of strain on the shoulders iv been in a couple competitions for college where they required us to pause on the chest for 2seconds

 

[blackcj7]

as long as you are not allowing the bar to completely rest on your chest and you are able to keep the tension from the eccentric portion of the lift. Either way it will be harder on the shoulders, personally I wouldn't do them too often because they start to effect my shoulders. I would incorporate them in your routine though almost the same as adding negatives.

 

[HereToStudy]

I hate pausing. I feel it's slot of risk for little benefit, but that's personal opinion, I am not saying others should follow that theory.

 

[pmiller383]

Just out of curiosity if some of you guys are only going to 90' with your elbows why even bench press at all? Why not just do a floor press where you are using that limited motion but still having a consistent spot to touch every time.

 

[Chubbinmuffin]

I wish my quads talked, but I'm pretty sure they would tell me never to do GVT again

I hear ya. Tried 5x20 before... no thanks.

 

[calidood]

I have personally had a lot of issue with shoulder joint issues. I hurt my rotator cuff in the military and it hasn't been the same since. I could never continue training and was always an off again off again weight lifter because of shoulder and knee problems. A friend told me he had the same issue and started not breaking 90 degrees and it helped him immensely. I did the same thing and I haven't had an issue since. I can obviously put up more weight this way too. I don't know if my chest is getting a better workout, but it's getting a workout and I can continue to go to the gym. This is definitely better. Whether your issue is the same, who knows? But it works for me and who really cares how far you go down? Honestly, bench press may be a cornerstone of weightlifting, but as far as strength goes in any type of normal situation, it's the most worthless lift of all. When do you need to use your pecs normally for any type of work whether it be your profession or at home? More importantly, when would your strength from your chest to a few inches out be necessary? I say, if you can build your chest with less risk than that's the way you should be doing it. I go a little below 90 sometimes but I never touch my chest anymore. I've been adding mass too. So it works!

 

[OEFHajHunt10]

Dont listen to these guys. Check it out, what you do is throw on about 315, somthin lite like that, let it bounce off your chest and then throw it to the roof, catch it and repeat the process 8 to 10 times. Itll get you there quick. Payments for more extreme lifting advice can be made by PayPal or money order just go to: Idontknowwhatthe****imtalkingabout .com for more helpful advice.

 

[calidood]

Dont listen to these guys. Check it out, what you do is throw on about 315, somthin lite like that, let it bounce off your chest and then throw it to the roof, catch it and repeat the process 8 to 10 times. Itll get you there quick. Payments for more extreme lifting advice can be made by PayPal or money order just go to: Idontknowwhatthe****imtalkingabout .com for more helpful advice.

Oh yeah, this is what I meant to type. I don't know what that other stuff was. Forgive me...I was WAY off earlier. Don't forget though, keep your feet on the bench, lift your pelvis as high as possible, and flail it to and fro simultaneously with the bounce. It's called form, get some! Haha.

 

[OEFHajHunt10]

And you see calidood is exactly right about the form. form, form, form but never before weight. Its all about the weight, form comes second. Good additive calidood, i like the touch on hip placement, the innerward thrusting motion is a must when it comes to bench.Payments for more extreme lifting advice can be made by PayPal or money order just go to: Idontknowwhatthe****imtalkinga bout .com for more helpful advice.