Carbs not Required post workout

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  1. The external validity of this study is this: after an acute bout of leg extensions in untrained subjects, carbohydrates do not enhance protein syntehsis any more than protein alone. Thats it.

    You cannot extrapolate the results to anything greater than that without making infferential leaps of faith. Hence, why at the end of any discussion, the researchers will say " we found xxxx, however, more research is needed to see if xxxx will result in xxxxx"
    Evidence based approach use patient centered trials and evidence from basic science. You cannot or you will never find a study with subjects that is exactly similar to your subjects pr patients. If we know the trained individuals have less damage than beginners, the biological plausibility to find greater protein breakdown with trained is much less. So i don't see the results changing in trained.


    The hypothesis proposed by researchers are very narrow and direct. In the case of the aforementioned study, it was a few biochemical processes that are involved in protein synthesis right after resistance training.

    We forget a few things wrt to hypertrophy.
    1. Protein synthesis is an ongoing process, not just an hour or two pwo.
    2. The synthesis of new myofibrils only makes up a part of hypertrophy, thus,
    3. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - the merging of satellite cells and the hormones inolved in signalling this (IGF, MGF, etc.) - must also be taken into account attempting to talk about post workout CHO and hypertophy.
    I agree that acute studies do not give the best evidence for application.

    Usually these sort of studies from the framework for long term studies. From other studies, they have show how acute protein synthesis levels can predict long term muscle growth.

    Acute study is better than no studies which is the case with carbs after protein.

    And I am not sure what u mean by sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and satellite cells.

    Good posts.


  2. Thought it was interesting that some of the same authors posted this study a couple years ago supporting the use of CHO with protein. Not that it means anything because this is an ever changing and adapting field.

    Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men.Tang JE, Manolakos JJ, Kujbida GW, Lysecki PJ, Moore DR, Phillips SM.Exercise Metabolism Research Group, Department of Kinesiology, McMaster University, 1280 Main St. West, Hamilton, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

    Abstract
    Whey protein is a supplemental protein source often used by athletes, particularly those aiming to gain muscle mass; however, direct evidence for its efficacy in stimulating muscle protein synthesis (MPS) is lacking. We aimed to determine the impact of consuming whey protein on skeletal muscle protein turnover in the post-exercise period. Eight healthy resistance-trained young men (age=21+/-1 .0 years; BMI=26.8+/-0.9 kg/m2 (means+/-SE)) participated in a double-blind randomized crossover trial in which they performed a unilateral leg resistance exercise workout (EX: 4 sets of knee extensions and 4 sets of leg press; 8-10 repetitions/set; 80% of maximal), such that one leg was not exercised and acted as a rested (RE) comparator. After exercise, subjects consumed either an isoenergetic whey protein plus carbohydrate beverage (WHEY: 10 g protein and 21 g fructose) or a carbohydrate-only beverage (CHO: 21 g fructose and 10 g maltodextran). Subjects received pulse-tracer injections of L-[ring-2H5]phenylalanine and L-[15N]phenylalanine to measure MPS. Exercise stimulated a rise in MPS in the WHEY-EX and CHO-EX legs, which were greater than MPS in the WHEY-RE leg and the CHO-RE leg (all p<0.05), respectively. The rate of MPS in the WHEY-EX leg was greater than in the CHO-EX leg (p<0.001). We conclude that a small dose (10 g) of whey protein with carbohydrate (21 g) can stimulate a rise in MPS after resistance exercise in trained young men that would be supportive of a positive net protein balance, which, over time, would lead to hypertrophy.
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  3. Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive
    2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale


    At this time the consensus in the literature is that the use of a balanced amino acid mixture along with glucose or high glycemic carbohydrates taken immediately after exercise and then again a short time later would seem to optimize the immediate anabolic effects of exercise.1

    There’s no doubt that the use of the individual and combinations of amino acids both before, during and after exercise has significant short term effects on protein synthesis and the exercise and post exercise hormonal milieu. However, very little research has been done on the long term benefits or drawbacks on body composition and performance of using post exercise carbohydrate intake.

    However, a recent study assessed the need for co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.2 The results of the study showed that the use of a protein hydrolysate alone was enough to increase protein synthesis after exercise and that the addition of carbohydrates did not further increase protein synthesis.

    Not only is the use of post exercise carbohydrates non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by protein intake after exercise, it can actually be counter productive.

    There is no doubt that the timing protein nutrition after exercise is crucial for increasing skeletal muscle protein synthesis and an overall net balance.3 Exercise provides an adaptive response so that the body is able to make use of any nutrition supplied post exercise.

    Nutrient intake on its own provides a storage response so that if one is fed or receives an infusion of mixed amino acids after a fasted period, protein synthesis increases, whereas protein breakdown remains the same or decreases slightly, which is different from the response after exercise.

    Without nutrient intake after exercise protein synthesis and protein breakdown are increased but net balance does not become positive as it does after amino acid intake after fasting. Because of the exercise stimulus, when amino acids are provided after exercise protein synthesis increases more than that after exercise or AA feeding alone, and protein breakdown remains similar to exercise without feeding. Thus the provision of AA enhances protein synthesis and leads to a positive net protein balance and an overall increase in protein accretion.4

    In addition, while the increase in protein synthesis after feeding is a transient storage phenomenon, physical exercise stimulates a longer-term adaptive response. Providing nutrition after physical activity takes advantage of the anabolic signaling pathways that physical activity has initiated by providing amino acid building blocks and energy for protein synthesis.

    Glycogen compensation and super compensation (after glycogen depleting exercise) after exercise requires a substantial carbohydrate load that results in a quick and large increase in glycogen levels in both liver and skeletal muscles. Once the stores are full, or even super full, the stimulus declines dramatically. However, if no carbohydrates are given post exercise the muscle will maintain a capacity to full compensate or supercompensate glycogen until enough carbs are either available through the diet or by gluconeogenesis to fill the glycogen stores as much as possible.5

    Because of the over emphasis placed on maintaining glycogen stores to maximize exercise performance, much of the research has centered around the effects of post exercise carbs, and post exercise carbs combined with protein,6 and the effects these have on glucose transportes (GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT4), glucose metabolism, including levels of hexokinase and glycogen synthase, and insulin,7,8 there’s not much out there dealing with just the use of protein and fat after exercise.

    The usual advice is that carbs, with some protein thrown in, are a necessary part of post exercise nutrition regardless of diet that you’re following, including a low carb diet.9,10 However, that’s not true. In fact the use of carbs post training can be counter productive and eliminating post training carbs can have added anabolic and fat burning effects.

    That’s because the intake of carbs after exercise blunts the post exercise insulin sensitivity. That means that once muscle has loaded up on glycogen, which it does pretty quickly on carbs, insulin sensitivity decreases dramatically.

    As you know this statement runs counter to present thinking and research about post exercise nutrition although we’ve mentioned that one recent study showing that carbohydrate intake after exercise is non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by the use of a protein hydrolysate post exercise.

    However, the study did not go as far as to state that the use of carbohydrates can actually be counter productive. As such, let’s take it step by step so that I can make my reasons for the above statements clear and easier to understand.

    First of all it’s well known that a single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days.11,12

    It’s also known that a bout of resistance exercise results in a significant decrease in glycogen and that total energy content and CHO content are important in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen.13

    Glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis are enhanced in the presence of insulin following an acute exercise bout that lowers the muscle glycogen concentration and activates glycogen synthase.14,15

    Muscle glycogen concentration dictates much of this acute increase in insulin sensitivity after exercise.16 Therefore, an increased availability of dietary carbohydrate in the hours after exercise and the resultant increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis reverses the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity.17

    Along with glucose uptake, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis also increase. As well, the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel also rises after exercise since glycogen resynthesis takes priority to the use of glucose for aerobic energy.

    However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.

    By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body’s metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.

    This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect.18

    As well, the type of protein used post exercise can have an effect on glycogen levels and thus the anabolic stimulus. For example it’s been shown that a fast protein, such as whey protein, leads to increased glycogen levels over slow proteins such as casein.19

    In the long run, the optimal protein for increasing protein synthesis, decreasing catabolism and increasing muscle accretion is a blend of slow and fast proteins, plus the addition of a few other useful ingredients.


    1 Manninen AH. Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink. Br J Sports Med. 2006;40(11):900-5.
    2 Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5 Suppl):S83.
    3 Tipton, KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D Jr, Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 1999; 276:E628-634.
    4 Miller BF. Human muscle protein synthesis after physical activity and feeding. Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2007;35(2):50-5.
    5 Garcia-Roves, P.M., D.H. Han, Z. Song, T.E. Jones, K.A. Hucker, and J.O. Holloszy. Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in muscle GLUT4 after exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 2003; 285:E729-E736,.
    6 Ivy JL Goforth HW Jr Damon BM McCauley TR Parsons EC Price TB (2002) Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate–protein supplement J Appl Physiol 93 1337–1344.
    7 Zorzano A, Palacin M, Guma A. Mechanisms regulating GLUT4 glucose transporter expression and glucose transport in skeletal muscle. Acta Physiol Scand. 2005;183(1):43-58.
    8 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.
    9 Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002;93(4):1337-44.
    10 Carrithers JA, Williamson DL, Gallagher PM, Godard MP, Schulze KE, Trappe SW. Effects of postexercise carbohydrate-protein feedings on muscle glycogen restoration. J Appl Physiol. 2000;88(6):1976-82.
    11 CarteeGD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, and Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256: E494–E499.
    12 HenriksenEJ. Effects of acute exercise and exercise training on insulin resistance. J Appl Physiol 2002; 93:788–796.
    13 Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 1998;84(3):890-6.
    14 Ivy JL, Holloszy JO. Persistant increase in glucose uptake by rat skeletal muscle following exercise. Am J Physiol 1981; 241:C200-C203.
    15 Ren JM, Semenkovich CF, Gulve EA, Gao J, Holloszy JO. Exercise induces rapid increases in GLUT4 expression, glucose transport capacity, and insulin-stimulated glycogen storage in muscle. J Biol Chem. 1994 20;269(20):14396-401.
    16 Derave W, Lund S, Holman G, Wojtaszewski J, Pedersen O, Richter EA. Contraction-stimulated muscle glucose transport and GLUT-4 surface content are dependent on glycogen content. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 277: E1103–E1110.
    17 Kawanaka K, Han D, Nolte LA, Hansen PA, Nakatani A, and Holloszy JO. Decreased insulin-stimulated GLUT-4 translocation in glycogen-supercompensated muscles of exercised rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 276: E907–E912.
    18 Cartee GD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256:E494–E499.
    19 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.

  4. As for the present study, validity aside, it is pretty much the only study of it's kind to date. So without future research, it's still up in the air about carbs IMO... but I have to say I am definately more convinced than I was before this thread.

    During something like HST training, or high volume upper/lower split training... then I could see the benefit, b/c your going to be training every other day, and need to re-synthesize glycogen as fast as possible.

    But I'm all but convinced that for the typical bodybuilder hitting each muscle group once per week, there may be no added benefit for large quantities of CHO post workout.

    BUT... that claim still cannot be made without additional research IMO

    You still have 50+ studies out there that have used a CHO + Protein mix when finding their results... and this study is the first to make the distinguishment.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    Post Exercise Carbohydrates May Be Counter-Productive
    2007 Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale


    At this time the consensus in the literature is that the use of a balanced amino acid mixture along with glucose or high glycemic carbohydrates taken immediately after exercise and then again a short time later would seem to optimize the immediate anabolic effects of exercise.1

    There’s no doubt that the use of the individual and combinations of amino acids both before, during and after exercise has significant short term effects on protein synthesis and the exercise and post exercise hormonal milieu. However, very little research has been done on the long term benefits or drawbacks on body composition and performance of using post exercise carbohydrate intake.

    However, a recent study assessed the need for co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.2 The results of the study showed that the use of a protein hydrolysate alone was enough to increase protein synthesis after exercise and that the addition of carbohydrates did not further increase protein synthesis.

    Not only is the use of post exercise carbohydrates non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by protein intake after exercise, it can actually be counter productive.

    There is no doubt that the timing protein nutrition after exercise is crucial for increasing skeletal muscle protein synthesis and an overall net balance.3 Exercise provides an adaptive response so that the body is able to make use of any nutrition supplied post exercise.

    Nutrient intake on its own provides a storage response so that if one is fed or receives an infusion of mixed amino acids after a fasted period, protein synthesis increases, whereas protein breakdown remains the same or decreases slightly, which is different from the response after exercise.

    Without nutrient intake after exercise protein synthesis and protein breakdown are increased but net balance does not become positive as it does after amino acid intake after fasting. Because of the exercise stimulus, when amino acids are provided after exercise protein synthesis increases more than that after exercise or AA feeding alone, and protein breakdown remains similar to exercise without feeding. Thus the provision of AA enhances protein synthesis and leads to a positive net protein balance and an overall increase in protein accretion.4

    In addition, while the increase in protein synthesis after feeding is a transient storage phenomenon, physical exercise stimulates a longer-term adaptive response. Providing nutrition after physical activity takes advantage of the anabolic signaling pathways that physical activity has initiated by providing amino acid building blocks and energy for protein synthesis.

    Glycogen compensation and super compensation (after glycogen depleting exercise) after exercise requires a substantial carbohydrate load that results in a quick and large increase in glycogen levels in both liver and skeletal muscles. Once the stores are full, or even super full, the stimulus declines dramatically. However, if no carbohydrates are given post exercise the muscle will maintain a capacity to full compensate or supercompensate glycogen until enough carbs are either available through the diet or by gluconeogenesis to fill the glycogen stores as much as possible.5

    Because of the over emphasis placed on maintaining glycogen stores to maximize exercise performance, much of the research has centered around the effects of post exercise carbs, and post exercise carbs combined with protein,6 and the effects these have on glucose transportes (GLUT1, GLUT2, GLUT4), glucose metabolism, including levels of hexokinase and glycogen synthase, and insulin,7,8 there’s not much out there dealing with just the use of protein and fat after exercise.

    The usual advice is that carbs, with some protein thrown in, are a necessary part of post exercise nutrition regardless of diet that you’re following, including a low carb diet.9,10 However, that’s not true. In fact the use of carbs post training can be counter productive and eliminating post training carbs can have added anabolic and fat burning effects.

    That’s because the intake of carbs after exercise blunts the post exercise insulin sensitivity. That means that once muscle has loaded up on glycogen, which it does pretty quickly on carbs, insulin sensitivity decreases dramatically.

    As you know this statement runs counter to present thinking and research about post exercise nutrition although we’ve mentioned that one recent study showing that carbohydrate intake after exercise is non contributory to the increase in protein synthesis brought about by the use of a protein hydrolysate post exercise.

    However, the study did not go as far as to state that the use of carbohydrates can actually be counter productive. As such, let’s take it step by step so that I can make my reasons for the above statements clear and easier to understand.

    First of all it’s well known that a single session of exercise increases insulin sensitivity for hours and even days.11,12

    It’s also known that a bout of resistance exercise results in a significant decrease in glycogen and that total energy content and CHO content are important in the resynthesis of muscle and liver glycogen.13

    Glucose uptake and glycogen synthesis are enhanced in the presence of insulin following an acute exercise bout that lowers the muscle glycogen concentration and activates glycogen synthase.14,15

    Muscle glycogen concentration dictates much of this acute increase in insulin sensitivity after exercise.16 Therefore, an increased availability of dietary carbohydrate in the hours after exercise and the resultant increase in muscle glycogen resynthesis reverses the exercise-induced increase in insulin sensitivity.17

    Along with glucose uptake, amino acid uptake and protein synthesis also increase. As well, the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel also rises after exercise since glycogen resynthesis takes priority to the use of glucose for aerobic energy.

    However, as liver and muscle glycogen levels get replenished, insulin sensitivity decreases, as does amino acid uptake, protein synthesis and the use of fatty acids as a primary fuel.

    By increasing insulin levels and not providing carbs you shunt your body’s metabolism to the use of more fatty acids for energy while at the same time keeping muscle glycogen levels below saturation and amino acid influx and protein synthesis elevated for a prolonged period of time post exercise.

    This increased capacity for glycogen synthesis, and everything that goes with it, can persist for several days if the muscle glycogen concentration is maintained below normal levels by carbohydrate restriction. By keeping carbs low and protein and energy high after training, you can increase protein synthesis over a prolonged period of time and get long term anabolic effect.18

    As well, the type of protein used post exercise can have an effect on glycogen levels and thus the anabolic stimulus. For example it’s been shown that a fast protein, such as whey protein, leads to increased glycogen levels over slow proteins such as casein.19

    In the long run, the optimal protein for increasing protein synthesis, decreasing catabolism and increasing muscle accretion is a blend of slow and fast proteins, plus the addition of a few other useful ingredients.


    1 Manninen AH. Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink. Br J Sports Med. 2006;40(11):900-5.
    2 Beelen M, Koopman R, Stellingwerff T, Kuipers H, Saris WH, van Loon LJ. Co-ingestion Of Carbohydrate With Protein Does Not Stimulate Post-exercise Muscle Protein Synthesis Rates: 874: June 1 1:45 PM - 2:00 PM. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2007 May;39(5 Suppl):S83.
    3 Tipton, KD, Ferrando AA, Phillips SM, Doyle D Jr, Wolfe RR. Postexercise net protein synthesis in human muscle from orally administered amino acids. Am. J. Physiol. 1999; 276:E628-634.
    4 Miller BF. Human muscle protein synthesis after physical activity and feeding. Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2007;35(2):50-5.
    5 Garcia-Roves, P.M., D.H. Han, Z. Song, T.E. Jones, K.A. Hucker, and J.O. Holloszy. Prevention of glycogen supercompensation prolongs the increase in muscle GLUT4 after exercise. Am. J. Physiol. Endocrinol. Metab. 2003; 285:E729-E736,.
    6 Ivy JL Goforth HW Jr Damon BM McCauley TR Parsons EC Price TB (2002) Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate–protein supplement J Appl Physiol 93 1337–1344.
    7 Zorzano A, Palacin M, Guma A. Mechanisms regulating GLUT4 glucose transporter expression and glucose transport in skeletal muscle. Acta Physiol Scand. 2005;183(1):43-58.
    8 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.
    9 Ivy JL, Goforth HW Jr, Damon BM, McCauley TR, Parsons EC, Price TB. Early postexercise muscle glycogen recovery is enhanced with a carbohydrate-protein supplement. J Appl Physiol. 2002;93(4):1337-44.
    10 Carrithers JA, Williamson DL, Gallagher PM, Godard MP, Schulze KE, Trappe SW. Effects of postexercise carbohydrate-protein feedings on muscle glycogen restoration. J Appl Physiol. 2000;88(6):1976-82.
    11 CarteeGD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, and Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256: E494–E499.
    12 HenriksenEJ. Effects of acute exercise and exercise training on insulin resistance. J Appl Physiol 2002; 93:788–796.
    13 Roy BD, Tarnopolsky MA. Influence of differing macronutrient intakes on muscle glycogen resynthesis after resistance exercise. J Appl Physiol. 1998;84(3):890-6.
    14 Ivy JL, Holloszy JO. Persistant increase in glucose uptake by rat skeletal muscle following exercise. Am J Physiol 1981; 241:C200-C203.
    15 Ren JM, Semenkovich CF, Gulve EA, Gao J, Holloszy JO. Exercise induces rapid increases in GLUT4 expression, glucose transport capacity, and insulin-stimulated glycogen storage in muscle. J Biol Chem. 1994 20;269(20):14396-401.
    16 Derave W, Lund S, Holman G, Wojtaszewski J, Pedersen O, Richter EA. Contraction-stimulated muscle glucose transport and GLUT-4 surface content are dependent on glycogen content. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 277: E1103–E1110.
    17 Kawanaka K, Han D, Nolte LA, Hansen PA, Nakatani A, and Holloszy JO. Decreased insulin-stimulated GLUT-4 translocation in glycogen-supercompensated muscles of exercised rats. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1999; 276: E907–E912.
    18 Cartee GD, Young DA, Sleeper MD, Zierath J, Wallberg-Henriksson H, Holloszy JO. Prolonged increase in insulin-stimulated glucose transport in muscle after exercise. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab 1989; 256:E494–E499.
    19 Morifuji M, Sakai K, Sanbongi C, Sugiura K. Dietary whey protein increases liver and skeletal muscle glycogen levels in exercise-trained rats. Br J Nutr. 2005;93(4):439-45.

    Yeah i read this also.... very good write-up, but it is all analytical and oppinion based. But still very interesting perspective.
    •   
       


  6. Quote Originally Posted by Movin_weight View Post
    Yeah i read this also.... very good write-up, but it is all analytical and oppinion based. But still very interesting perspective.
    I`m on low carb diet now and the only thing help me a lot on the gym with the weights is ALCAR 6g a day

  7. Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    I`m on low carb diet now and the only thing help me a lot on the gym with the weights is ALCAR 6g a day
    Yeah I read a study during my search saying that when your on a carb restricted diet, timing your carbs around your workout doesn't improve performance.

    I like ALCAR combined with sulbutamine... gives me good focus and drive in the gym

  8. damn maxximal...sounds like u are doing a lot of the same stuff i am doing. I have been dosing ALCAR 2-3g three or four times a day. Helps fat metabolism and focus is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAxximal View Post
    I`m on low carb diet now and the only thing help me a lot on the gym with the weights is ALCAR 6g a day

  9. Here is another one which has looked at whole body protein degradation and synthesis and protein balance and didn't find a difference with carbs :

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Sep;293(3):E833-42. Epub 2007 Jul 3.
    Coingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment postexercise muscle protein synthesis.
    Koopman R, Beelen M, Stellingwerff T, Pennings B, Saris WH, Kies AK, Kuipers H, van Loon LJ.

    Department of Movement Sciences, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
    Abstract
    The present study was designed to assess the impact of coingestion of various amounts of carbohydrate combined with an ample amount of protein intake on postexercise muscle protein synthesis rates. Ten healthy, fit men (20 +/- 0.3 yr) were randomly assigned to three crossover experiments. After 60 min of resistance exercise, subjects consumed 0.3 g x kg(-1) x h(-1) protein hydrolysate with 0, 0.15, or 0.6 g x kg(-1) x h(-1) carbohydrate during a 6-h recovery period (PRO, PRO + LCHO, and PRO + HCHO, respectively). Primed, continuous infusions with L-[ring-(13)C(6)]phenylalanine, L-[ring-(2)H(2)]tyrosine, and [6,6-(2)H(2)]glucose were applied, and blood and muscle samples were collected to assess whole body protein turnover and glucose kinetics as well as protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle over 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin responses were significantly greater in PRO + HCHO compared with PRO + LCHO and PRO (18.4 +/- 2.9 vs. 3.7 +/- 0.5 and 1.5 +/- 0.2 U.6 h(-1) x l(-1), respectively, P < 0.001). Plasma glucose rate of appearance (R(a)) and disappearance (R(d)) increased over time in PRO + HCHO and PRO + LCHO, but not in PRO. Plasma glucose R(a) and R(d) were substantially greater in PRO + HCHO vs. both PRO and PRO + LCHO (P < 0.01). Whole body protein breakdown, synthesis, and oxidation rates, as well as whole body protein balance, did not differ between experiments. Mixed muscle protein FSR did not differ between treatments and averaged 0.10 +/- 0.01, 0.10 +/- 0.01, and 0.11 +/- 0.01%/h in the PRO, PRO + LCHO, and PRO + HCHO experiments, respectively. In conclusion, coingestion of carbohydrate during recovery does not further stimulate postexercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is ingested.


    The mechanisms seems to be the increased insulin response with just high enough protein intake is enough insulin to blunt protein breakdown. This study had a mean insulin response of 16u/ml where the recent study had 11u/ml in just the protein group.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by Movin_weight View Post
    Yeah I read a study during my search saying that when your on a carb restricted diet, timing your carbs around your workout doesn't improve performance.

    I like ALCAR combined with sulbutamine... gives me good focus and drive in the gym
    How much of each did you use here? Any stims used with this combo? I have both and usually just use 1.5g ALCAR with my pre-wo

  11. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Here is another one which has looked at whole body protein degradation and synthesis and protein balance and didn't find a difference with carbs :

    Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Sep;293(3):E833-42. Epub 2007 Jul 3.
    Coingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment postexercise muscle protein synthesis.
    Koopman R, Beelen M, Stellingwerff T, Pennings B, Saris WH, Kies AK, Kuipers H, van Loon LJ.

    Department of Movement Sciences, Maastricht University, PO Box 616, 6200 MD Maastricht, The Netherlands. [email protected]
    Abstract
    The present study was designed to assess the impact of coingestion of various amounts of carbohydrate combined with an ample amount of protein intake on postexercise muscle protein synthesis rates. Ten healthy, fit men (20 +/- 0.3 yr) were randomly assigned to three crossover experiments. After 60 min of resistance exercise, subjects consumed 0.3 g x kg(-1) x h(-1) protein hydrolysate with 0, 0.15, or 0.6 g x kg(-1) x h(-1) carbohydrate during a 6-h recovery period (PRO, PRO + LCHO, and PRO + HCHO, respectively). Primed, continuous infusions with L-[ring-(13)C(6)]phenylalanine, L-[ring-(2)H(2)]tyrosine, and [6,6-(2)H(2)]glucose were applied, and blood and muscle samples were collected to assess whole body protein turnover and glucose kinetics as well as protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle over 6 h of postexercise recovery. Plasma insulin responses were significantly greater in PRO + HCHO compared with PRO + LCHO and PRO (18.4 +/- 2.9 vs. 3.7 +/- 0.5 and 1.5 +/- 0.2 U.6 h(-1) x l(-1), respectively, P < 0.001). Plasma glucose rate of appearance (R(a)) and disappearance (R(d)) increased over time in PRO + HCHO and PRO + LCHO, but not in PRO. Plasma glucose R(a) and R(d) were substantially greater in PRO + HCHO vs. both PRO and PRO + LCHO (P < 0.01). Whole body protein breakdown, synthesis, and oxidation rates, as well as whole body protein balance, did not differ between experiments. Mixed muscle protein FSR did not differ between treatments and averaged 0.10 +/- 0.01, 0.10 +/- 0.01, and 0.11 +/- 0.01%/h in the PRO, PRO + LCHO, and PRO + HCHO experiments, respectively. In conclusion, coingestion of carbohydrate during recovery does not further stimulate postexercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is ingested.


    The mechanisms seems to be the increased insulin response with just high enough protein intake is enough insulin to blunt protein breakdown. This study had a mean insulin response of 16u/ml where the recent study had 11u/ml in just the protein group.
    Yeah good find, I read a few others discussing the minimal effects immediate carbs have on nitrogen balance.

    Gotta say ive learned alot just from the topics sparked in thread.

  12. Since none of you who argue for carbs can never ever bring some evidence to the table, here you go:

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.
    Independent and combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
    Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR.

    Dairy Management, Inc, Rosemont, IL, USA.
    Abstract
    PURPOSE: This study was designed to assess the independent and combined effects of a dose of amino acids (approximately 6 g) and/or carbohydrate (approximately 35 g) consumed at 1 and 2 h after resistance exercise on muscle protein metabolism.

    METHODS: Following initiation of a primed constant infusion of H -phenylalanine and N-urea, volunteers performed leg resistance exercise and then ingested one of three drinks (amino acids (AA), carbohydrate (CHO), or AA and CHO (MIX)) at 1- and 2-h postexercise.(5)

    RESULTS: Total net uptake of phenylalanine across the leg over 3 h was greatest in response to MIX and least in CHO. The individual values for CHO, MIX, and AA were 53 +/- 6, 114 +/- 38, and 71 +/- 13 mg x leg x 3h. Stimulation of net uptake in MIX was due to increased muscle protein synthesis.

    CONCLUSIONS: These findings indicate that the combined effect on net muscle protein synthesis of carbohydrate and amino acids given together after resistance exercise is roughly equivalent to the sum of the independent effects of either given alone. The individual effects of carbohydrate and amino acids are likely dependent on the amount of each that is ingested. Further, prior intake of amino acids and carbohydrate does not diminish the metabolic response to a second comparable dose ingested 1h later.


    The only problem is here that the carbs groups received 35 gms of carbs while the protein just got around 6 gms of AA!. T?he extra calories in the carb group could have just caused the effect.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Since none of you who argue for carbs can never ever bring some evidence to the table, here you go:

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.
    Independent and combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
    Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR.

    Dairy Management, Inc, Rosemont, IL, USA.
    Abstract
    PURPOSE: This study was designed to assess the independent and combined effects of a dose of amino acids (approximately 6 g) and/or carbohydrate (approximately 35 g) consumed at 1 and 2 h after resistance exercise on muscle protein metabolism.

    METHODS: Following initiation of a primed constant infusion of H -phenylalanine and N-urea, volunteers performed leg resistance exercise and then ingested one of three drinks (amino acids (AA), carbohydrate (CHO), or AA and CHO (MIX)) at 1- and 2-h postexercise.(5)

    RESULTS: Total net uptake of phenylalanine across the leg over 3 h was greatest in response to MIX and least in CHO. The individual values for CHO, MIX, and AA were 53 +/- 6, 114 +/- 38, and 71 +/- 13 mg x leg x 3h. Stimulation of net uptake in MIX was due to increased muscle protein synthesis.

    CONCLUSIONS: These findings indicate that the combined effect on net muscle protein synthesis of carbohydrate and amino acids given together after resistance exercise is roughly equivalent to the sum of the independent effects of either given alone. The individual effects of carbohydrate and amino acids are likely dependent on the amount of each that is ingested. Further, prior intake of amino acids and carbohydrate does not diminish the metabolic response to a second comparable dose ingested 1h later.


    The only problem is here that the carbs groups received 35 gms of carbs while the protein just got around 6 gms of AA!. T?he extra calories in the carb group could have just caused the effect.
    That's contradicting though. If carbs have no effect, then why would extra
    Calories from carbs make a difference here? If that were the case, then carbs alone should be able to provide ample substrate for protein synthesis, when that has been shown by many studies not to be the case.

    On the other hand, aminos are easily Converted to glucose via transamination, which may be the outcome of much of the protein ingested post workout. And to even further complicate things, aminos can be used to form several different kreb cycle intermediates involved in glucose metabolism. Unfortunately,'these processes are basically untraceable since there is no oxidation taking place, so it is very difficult to determine the outcome of the ingested protein.

    My point is, ingesting of cho and a small amount of protein may result in exactly the same response as a larger amount of protein, due to excess protein Being utilized through other metabolic pathways than protein synthesis.

    At this point I'm not necessarily for carbs post workout, but still feel there is a more complex explanation that has been denoted by the few studies posted

  14. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Since none of you who argue for carbs can never ever bring some evidence to the table, here you go:

    Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2003 Mar;35(3):449-55.
    Independent and combined effects of amino acids and glucose after resistance exercise.
    Miller SL, Tipton KD, Chinkes DL, Wolf SE, Wolfe RR.

    Dairy Management, Inc, Rosemont, IL, USA.
    Abstract
    PURPOSE: This study was designed to assess the independent and combined effects of a dose of amino acids (approximately 6 g) and/or carbohydrate (approximately 35 g) consumed at 1 and 2 h after resistance exercise on muscle protein metabolism.

    METHODS: Following initiation of a primed constant infusion of H -phenylalanine and N-urea, volunteers performed leg resistance exercise and then ingested one of three drinks (amino acids (AA), carbohydrate (CHO), or AA and CHO (MIX)) at 1- and 2-h postexercise.(5)

    RESULTS: Total net uptake of phenylalanine across the leg over 3 h was greatest in response to MIX and least in CHO. The individual values for CHO, MIX, and AA were 53 +/- 6, 114 +/- 38, and 71 +/- 13 mg x leg x 3h. Stimulation of net uptake in MIX was due to increased muscle protein synthesis.

    CONCLUSIONS: These findings indicate that the combined effect on net muscle protein synthesis of carbohydrate and amino acids given together after resistance exercise is roughly equivalent to the sum of the independent effects of either given alone. The individual effects of carbohydrate and amino acids are likely dependent on the amount of each that is ingested. Further, prior intake of amino acids and carbohydrate does not diminish the metabolic response to a second comparable dose ingested 1h later.


    The only problem is here that the carbs groups received 35 gms of carbs while the protein just got around 6 gms of AA!. T?he extra calories in the carb group could have just caused the effect.
    That's contradicting though. If carbs have no effect, then why would extra
    Calories from carbs make a difference here? If that were the case, then carbs alone should be able to provide ample substrate for protein synthesis, when that has been shown by many studies not to be the case.

    On the other hand, aminos are easily Converted to glucose via transamination, which may be the outcome of much of the protein ingested post workout. And to even further complicate things, aminos can be used to form several different kreb cycle intermediates involved in glucose metabolism. Unfortunately,'these processes are basically untraceable since there is no oxidation taking place, so it is very difficult to determine the outcome of the ingested protein.

    My point is, ingesting of cho and a small amount of protein may result in exactly the same response as a larger amount of protein, due to excess protein Being utilized through other metabolic pathways than protein synthesis.

    At this point I'm not necessarily for carbs post workout, but still feel there is a more complex explanation that has been denoted by the few studies posted

  15. Quote Originally Posted by Movin_weight View Post
    That's contradicting though. If carbs have no effect, then why would extra
    Calories from carbs make a difference here? If that were the case, then carbs alone should be able to provide ample substrate for protein synthesis, when that has been shown by many studies not to be the case. That's what the author wrote too.

    On the other hand, aminos are easily Converted to glucose via transamination, which may be the outcome of much of the protein ingested post workout. And to even further complicate things, aminos can be used to form several different kreb cycle intermediates involved in glucose metabolism. Unfortunately,'these processes are basically untraceable since there is no oxidation taking place, so it is very difficult to determine the outcome of the ingested protein.

    My point is, ingesting of cho and a small amount of protein may result in exactly the same response as a larger amount of protein, due to excess protein Being utilized through other metabolic pathways than protein synthesis.

    At this point I'm not necessarily for carbs post workout, but still feel there is a more complex explanation that has been denoted by the few studies posted
    That is the difference between acute studies and long term studies. In acute studies, you don't see the difference in calories in 30-60 min period. But in long term studies having a group consume 35gms of carbs plus 6gms of protein another group only consuming 6 gms of AA makes a difference in body composition.

    I don't think glucose makes a big difference here. The protein synthesis and breakdown changes are attributed to insulin and amino's.

    I don't think we can conclusively say carbs will not do much postworkout unless there is along term study with a good design. But it is leaning more towards no effect. But it is pretty clear all this crapola about waxy maize, dextrose and 50-70gms carbs post workout is just over hyped.

    Anyway, good discussion.

  16. Hydrosalate protein aside, i believe 20g plus free form aminos were shown to maximize protein synthesis, not sugars or waxy but any carb like say a bag of baked lays works too, so with this in mind a piece of fruit with free form aminos would be a good idea unless someone has a good hydrosalate protein such as peptopro, i used layne nortons research for the carbs suggestion

  17. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    That is the difference between acute studies and long term studies. In acute studies, you don't see the difference in calories in 30-60 min period. But in long term studies having a group consume 35gms of carbs plus 6gms of protein another group only consuming 6 gms of AA makes a difference in body composition.

    I don't think glucose makes a big difference here. The protein synthesis and breakdown changes are attributed to insulin and amino's.

    I don't think we can conclusively say carbs will not do much postworkout unless there is along term study with a good design. But it is leaning more towards no effect. But it is pretty clear all this crapola about waxy maize, dextrose and 50-70gms carbs post workout is just over hyped.

    Anyway, good discussion.
    Yeah i definitely agree. At one point during a bulk I was slamming 100g of dextrose w/ protein post workout and ended up a
    Bloated mess with a 37 inch waist.

    Good stuff though, this thread def gave me a new perspective.

  18. by Charles Poliquin
    Diet Principles


    The best time to load up in carbs is the first 10 minutes following your workout. Since insulin sensitivity is at its highest after the workout, this is the time to take in your carbs to maximize muscle mass gains. Originally based on the research that was available at the time, I typically recommended 2 g/Kg of bodyweight. Over the years, after being exposed to more research and discussing it with my colleagues, I have come to the conclusion that it should be a reflection of the training volume for the training session. The greater the number of reps per training unit, the greater the carbohydrate intake. Of course, one can assume that all reps are equal. A squatting or deadlifting rep is more demanding than a curling or triceps extension rep. By the same token, 3 reps slow tempo squats has different caloric demand than 3 reps in the power clean. As a general rule, I would recommend the following carbohydrate intake based on training volume for a given workout:

    12-72 reps per workout : 0.6 g/Kg/LBM
    73-200 reps per workout : 0.8 g/kg/LBM
    200-360 reps per workout : 1.0 g/kg/LBM
    360-450 reps per workout : 1.2 g/kg/LBM

    Regarding the source of carbohydrates post-workout, I have experimented with various sources, I like using fruit juices with a high glycemic index (i.e. pineapple, grape) to provide 30-40% of the carbs, the rest of the carbs coming from carb powders rangeing from dextrose to various types of malto-dextrin. For variety sake, I will use different types of juice like a berry blend. You can also any type of mushy fruit like bananas or peaches. For seriously underweight athletes, I may use pineapple and/or corn flakes to drive the glycemic index upwards. Instead of using maltodextrin, you can also use dessicated honey.

    Use insulin sensitivity supplements with high-carb post workout meals. Nutrients like taurine, arginine, magnesium, R-form alpha lipoic acid etc.. will help dispose of glucose to muscle cells instead of fat cells.

    Add protein to your post-workout carb intake. Using 15 g of protein for every 50 lbs of bodyweight, will increase glycogen storage by as much as 40%.

  19. I don't buy this study one bit. Sorry. I've read too many studies that say a mixture of protein and carbs is the most ideal post workout meal.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by VeganMike View Post
    I don't buy this study one bit. Sorry. I've read too many studies that say a mixture of protein and carbs is the most ideal post workout meal.
    Can you post the studies please.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by anoopbal View Post
    Can you post the studies please.
    I've read them in Men's health magazine and other weight lifting magazines. I'll try to google a bit and see what I can find and post.
  22. Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by VeganMike View Post
    I've read them in Men's health magazine and other weight lifting magazines. I'll try to google a bit and see what I can find and post.
    those aren't studies they are opinion articles Most everything i've seen showing that is based on the fasted morning workout study. So yes, if you workout first thing in the morning before eating then definitely a protein + carb shake after is nice (hydrowhey + perfect carb), but outside of that no legitimate study has shown a significant difference in body comp or nitrogen retention that i've ever found.

    its a pity, I used to use it as the excuse to eat organic oreos post workout.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    those aren't studies they are opinion articles Most everything i've seen showing that is based on the fasted morning workout study. So yes, if you workout first thing in the morning before eating then definitely a protein + carb shake after is nice (hydrowhey + perfect carb), but outside of that no legitimate study has shown a significant difference in body comp or nitrogen retention that i've ever found.

    its a pity, I used to use it as the excuse to eat organic oreos post workout.
    Organic oreos aside...if a high caloric diet is being used for growth, a moderate to substantial part of that (45+ %) is in the form of carbohydrates, then why wouldn't you eat a significant amount of that post workout?

    Post workout nutrient parititioning is shifted to bias the disposal of glucose in skeletal muscle: creatine phosphate stores have been depleted, (some) glycogen stores have been depleted, and as a result AMPK is activated and GLUT4 is translocated. Additionally, cellular metabolism is also increased, and glucose is needed to fuel protein synthesis and the repletion of fuels (glycogen and CP) - to bring the muscle fiber to homeostasis.

    As such, it would make sense that consuming a vast majority of carbohydrates periworkout would be best for body composition.

    Now, there's no longitudinal studies that have investigated such...so....

    What would be even more interesting, would be if we could set up a study to test this hypothesis....hmmm

    Br

  24. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Organic oreos aside...if a high caloric diet is being used for growth, a moderate to substantial part of that (45+ %) is in the form of carbohydrates, then why wouldn't you eat a significant amount of that post workout?

    Post workout nutrient parititioning is shifted to bias the disposal of glucose in skeletal muscle: creatine phosphate stores have been depleted, (some) glycogen stores have been depleted, and as a result AMPK is activated and GLUT4 is translocated. Additionally, cellular metabolism is also increased, and glucose is needed to fuel protein synthesis and the repletion of fuels (glycogen and CP) - to bring the muscle fiber to homeostasis.

    As such, it would make sense that consuming a vast majority of carbohydrates periworkout would be best for body composition.

    Now, there's no longitudinal studies that have investigated such...so....

    What would be even more interesting, would be if we could set up a study to test this hypothesis....hmmm

    Br
    You say carbs used during the workout would be best for body comp, due the above reasons you listed correct? What carbs and overall periworkout nutrition are you refering to?

  25. Quote Originally Posted by SweetLou321 View Post
    You say carbs used during the workout would be best for body comp, due the above reasons you listed correct? What carbs and overall periworkout nutrition are you refering to?
    Here is an application of the theory I previously proposed, based on what I prescribe for my clients and use on my self, assuming the client is training in the afternoon/early evening.

    Breakfast - 15% CHO intake

    Preworkout - 20% CHO intake
    In Workout - 20-40g CHO
    Post workout (shake + whole food meal ~1.5 2hr prior)- 40% CHO intake

    The remaining 20-25% is split up in two smaller meals, and the final meal of the day is low in starchy CHO.

    Br

  26. What kind of carbs are u suggesting for the intra-wo

  27. I'm right there with you. I really love my post workout shake.

  28. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    Here is an application of the theory I previously proposed, based on what I prescribe for my clients and use on my self, assuming the client is training in the afternoon/early evening.

    Breakfast - 15% CHO intake

    Preworkout - 20% CHO intake
    In Workout - 20-40g CHO
    Post workout (shake + whole food meal ~1.5 2hr prior)- 40% CHO intake

    The remaining 20-25% is split up in two smaller meals, and the final meal of the day is low in starchy CHO.

    Br

    Your not going to utilize that many carbs in such a short time period. You will most likely end up storing a large amount as fat. True the metabolic environment is ideal for nutrient uptake following resistance training, but it's not unlimited.

  29. Organic oreos aside...if a high caloric diet is being used for growth, a moderate to substantial part of that (45+ %) is in the form of carbohydrates, then why wouldn't you eat a significant amount of that post workout?
    That's a different question. The major reason for all this carb intake after post workout is blunting of protein breakdown.

    Post workout nutrient parititioning is shifted to bias the disposal of glucose in skeletal muscle: creatine phosphate stores have been depleted, (some) glycogen stores have been depleted, and as a result AMPK is activated and GLUT4 is translocated. Additionally, cellular metabolism is also increased, and glucose is needed to fuel protein synthesis and the repletion of fuels (glycogen and CP) - to bring the muscle fiber to homeostasis.
    As such, it would make sense that consuming a vast majority of carbohydrates periworkout would be best for body composition.
    That depend on the assumption that you are depleting lot of glycogen with weight training which you are not. Or you are on a low carb diet or like an IF diet.

  30. This study discusses findings that pre workout carbs/aminos do not effect protein synthesis after the workout. However, this does not examine glycogen or performance... I do feel that intraworkout carbs help during high intensity high volume resistance training... but not for the average joe



    J Appl Physiol. 2009 May; 106(5): 1730–1739.
    Published online 2008 June 5. doi: 10.1152/japplphysiol.90395.2008. PMCID: PMC2681328

    Copyright © 2009, American Physiological Society
    Regulation of Protein Metabolism in Exercise and Recovery
    Essential amino acid and carbohydrate ingestion before resistance exercise does not enhance postexercise muscle protein synthesis
    Satoshi Fujita,1 Hans C. Dreyer,2,3 Micah J. Drummond,2,3 Erin L. Glynn,3 Elena Volpi,1 and Blake B. Rasmussen2,3

    Ingestion of an essential amino acid-carbohydrate (EAA + CHO) solution following resistance exercise enhances muscle protein synthesis during postexercise recovery. It is unclear whether EAA + CHO ingestion before resistance exercise can improve direct measures of postexercise muscle protein synthesis (fractional synthetic rate; FSR). We hypothesized that EAA + CHO ingestion before a bout of resistance exercise would prevent the exercise-induced decrease in muscle FSR and would result in an enhanced rate of muscle FSR during postexercise recovery. [COLOR*********]We studied 22 young healthy subjects before, during, and for 2 h following a bout of high-intensity leg resistance exercise. The fasting control group (n = 11) did not ingest nutrients, and the EAA + CHO group (n = 11) ingested a solution of EAA + CHO 1 h before beginning the exercise bout.[/COLOR] Stable isotopic methods were used in combination with muscle biopsies to determine FSR. Immunoblotting procedures were utilized to assess cell signaling proteins associated with the regulation of FSR. We found that muscle FSR increased in the EAA + CHO group immediately following EAA + CHO ingestion (P < 0.05), returned to basal values during exercise, and remained unchanged at 1 h postexercise. Muscle FSR decreased in the fasting group during exercise and increased at 1 h postexercise (P < 0.05). However, the 2 h postexercise FSR increased by ~50% in both groups with no differences between groups (P > 0.05). Eukaryotic elongation factor 2 phosphorylation was reduced in both groups at 2 h postexercise (EAA + CHO: 39 ± 7%; fasting: 47 ± 9%; P < 0.05). We conclude that EAA + CHO ingestion before resistance exercise does not enhance postexercise FSR (protein synthesis) compared with exercise without nutrients.


    This study discusses the maximum amount of protein used post workout to maximally stimulate protein synthesis... anything over 20g was apparently oxidized (utilized for energy or converted to glucose). The only reason i post this study is to show that smashing large amounts of calories post workout do not have a greater effect on protein synthesis. However, again glycogen synthesis is another story.


    Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men 123
    Daniel R Moore, Meghann J Robinson, Jessica L Fry, Jason E Tang, Elisa I Glover, Sarah B Wilkinson, Todd Prior, Mark A Tarnopolsky, and Stuart M Phillips

    Abstract
    Background: The anabolic effect of resistance exercise is enhanced by the provision of dietary protein.

    Objectives: We aimed to determine the ingested protein dose response of muscle (MPS) and albumin protein synthesis (APS) after resistance exercise. In addition, we measured the phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins thought to regulate acute changes in MPS.

    Design: Six healthy young men reported to the laboratory on 5 separate occasions to perform an intense bout of leg-based resistance exercise. After exercise, participants consumed, in a randomized order, drinks containing 0, 5, 10, 20, or 40 g whole egg protein. Protein synthesis and whole-body leucine oxidation were measured over 4 h after exercise by a primed constant infusion of [1-13C]leucine.

    Results: MPS displayed a dose response to dietary protein ingestion and was maximally stimulated at 20 g. The phosphorylation of ribosomal protein S6 kinase (Thr389), ribosomal protein S6 (Ser240/244), and the ε-subunit of eukaryotic initiation factor 2B (Ser539) were unaffected by protein ingestion. APS increased in a dose-dependent manner and also reached a plateau at 20 g ingested protein. Leucine oxidation was significantly increased after 20 and 40 g protein were ingested.

    Conclusions: Ingestion of 20 g intact protein is sufficient to maximally stimulate MPS and APS after resistance exercise. Phosphorylation of candidate signaling proteins was not enhanced with any dose of protein ingested, which suggested that the stimulation of MPS after resistance exercise may be related to amino acid availability. Finally, dietary protein consumed after exercise in excess of the rate at which it can be incorporated into tissue protein stimulates irreversible oxidation.
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