Are you willing to trade monotony in eating for a great body? - AnabolicMinds.com

Are you willing to trade monotony in eating for a great body?

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  1. iron addict's Avatar
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    Are you willing to trade monotony in eating for a great body?


    Are you willing to trade monotony in eating for a great body

    If so, you will find once you get a basic caloric and macro-nutrient profile pegged, AND, are willing to stick with a basic format and make your protein mostly shake based--you are SET! Yes, you will have to make adjustments as you grow, and if you are dieting to strip bodyfat, you will need regular changes as bodyfat levels go down and you get into single, and particularly low-single digit numbers. But aside from the situations listed above, if you are willing to eat a simple, basic format diet, that does not vary a lot, you will find it incredibly simple to add muscle at a "real world" pace, while keeping bodyfat levels in check year-round.

    This doesn't mean every meal need be the same, nor every day be the same as the previous day. It does mean that you structure your diet within a basic format, and around foods that do not vary a lot in overall caloric or macro-nutrient structure from what you usually eat. And it also means you pre-plan to a degree, those "cheat" meals or days that are needed for sanity purposes. I work with many people that are long-term training clients that between us have dialed in diet to the extent that once we have them lean, we keep them there within a few percent bodyfat year round, and allow them to add quality muscle on an ongoing basis. I keep myself a between 6-10% year round and would never in a million years go back to bulk/cut dieting. Yes, it takes a bit of juggling to get everything setup, but once there you are set, and changes that need to be made as you grow are simple and basic "no brainers". If you are not using a similar approach, you are probably a t-shirt bodybuilder, you know, the guys who only look good with a loose fitting t-shirt and are ashamed to take it off.

    Iron Addict

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    I agree, I think the t-shirt bodybuiders are an oxymoron. A "bodybuilder" is supposed to have an impressive sculpted body, and not just for 3 months of the year. Never again will I go back to bulking so carelessly in the winter months. Right now I'm about 8% and dropping and I don't plan on seeing over 10-11% again. I want to see my abs all year and not have to worry about cutting so much and going crazy trying to keep muscle. It's a pain in the ass and puts a hault to muscle growth for the 2-3 months when you cut which in my eyes sucks. I've learned it's much easier and smarter to burn bodyfat off slowly and throughout the year and peaking in the summer months, then to panic in may. This way you keep the muscle you've worked so hard for while staying sharp for the ladies when it's cold outside and they need you to warm them up
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    If so, you will find once you get a basic caloric and macro-nutrient profile pegged, AND, are willing to stick with a basic format and make your protein mostly shake based--you are SET
    IA: are you advocating a protein shake based diet? so often you hear people saying "less shakes, more real food!"
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  4. iron addict's Avatar
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    Not for all meals/feedings, but for a majority. Yes, you NEED real food, but trying to get your daily protein requirements from all animal sources is an all around long game. 350 grams of protein = 3-1/2 lbs of chicken, lean beef, or fish. Do you REALLY want to try and do that EVERY DAY?

    Iron Addict
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    Yup

    Its not that difficult if you know what to look for. Many shortcuts to these things.
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  6. Jergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron addict
    Not for all meals/feedings, but for a majority. Yes, you NEED real food, but trying to get your daily protein requirements from all animal sources is an all around long game. 350 grams of protein = 3-1/2 lbs of chicken, lean beef, or fish. Do you REALLY want to try and do that EVERY DAY?

    Iron Addict
    I agree bro....powder makes up a lot of my diet and I've just learned to except that. It's totally impossible to take in 470-500grams of protein each and every day while on or off a cycle...even if it would, you would be so bloated from it, all you would be able to do was roll around on the ground for fun....

    Bobo, I find it highly unlikely that you have no problem getting in 500 or so grams/day w/o hardly any powder....if you insist though...please enlighten us with a 6000 calorie 500 gram protein bulk diet...I'd like to see this for myself...

    On top of that, that would cost you an arm and a leg to buy each week...powder when compared to real food is a hell of a lot cheaper...

    Another added addittion is getting in the real food is one thing, but when you gotta consume so many other clean cals in forms of carbs,fats, thats just asking WAY too much of yourself...your gut would explode..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    Bobo, I find it highly unlikely that you have no problem getting in 500 or so grams/day w/o hardly any powder....if you insist though...please enlighten us with a 6000 calorie 500 gram protein bulk diet...I'd like to see this for myself...

    ..
    Then find it hard to believe. Why the hell would I lie about that? I can do it easily but its up to the person if he wants to take the time to do it. Of course powders are more convenient but its easily possible when a can of chicken containd 60-70g of protein.

    6,000 calories? What are you 280lbs of lean LBM? If your 280 at about 8% maybe, but if your not there is no reason to even think abou 500g of protein and 6,000 calories. Talk about overkill.

    Protein consumption should be based on LBM content, not total weight.
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    Ahh chicken in a can . It's the lazy (I say smart) man's way of making some quick chicken salad.
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    Try this one:

    Hormel 99% fat free Turkey Stew or Turkey Chile. Add in 1 can of chicken.

    Like I said, its not that hard
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  10. Jergo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Then find it hard to believe. Why the hell would I lie about that? I can do it easily but its up to the person if he wants to take the time to do it. Of course powders are more convenient but its easily possible when a can of chicken containd 60-70g of protein.

    6,000 calories? What are you 280lbs of lean LBM? If your 280 at about 8% maybe, but if your not there is no reason to even think abou 500g of protein and 6,000 calories. Talk about overkill.

    Protein consumption should be based on LBM content, not total weight.

    Never said you were a liar.....I said that its unlikely that you have no problem doing that dayin/day out...JMO

    I have to eat 6000 cals/day in order to put on size....what, is that against your belief system...LOL....I'm still young, still have a raging metabolism, and weighing in at 245-250lbs....so of course its gonna take more to gain more for myself...

    A can of chicken that has 70grams of protein in it, that has to be at least 11 oz. of white chicken breasts....thats still a LOT of food to take in all day long when you gotta eat what around 6 of those when you weigh over 200...
  11. Jergo's Avatar
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    When I first started, I used to do that with canned tuna....I ate so much ****ing tuna that my **** smelled like it after awhile...I ain't bull****ting ya either...

    Don't bash it till you try it, but in my case it was just WAY too much for me to handle....
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    Nope. Why don't you try one and see how much it is. Its not much at all especially since its shredded. So instead of saying that I don't have a problem getting in quality protein sources, why don't you actually go try it and see what I'm talking about before you knock it. You might not find it so hard to believe especially when there are manyt things you can add shredded chicken to. That goes for turkey in a can also. Like I said before, its no that hard once you know the options. Don't blame me for knowing what they are. They are many more options than canned foods to that are failry easy to make.

    My system? I have no system. If you need 6000 calories to put on size, something isn't right unless your 6'10 and 245. Then I could see where your coming from.
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  13. Jergo's Avatar
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    See my above post....^^^

    So, you saying that I'm doing something wrong eating 6000 cals w/o you even knowing me, isn't the same as me saying that "I find it hard to believe that you eat that much whole foods??"

    Okay...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    When I first started, I used to do that with canned tuna....I ate so much ****ing tuna that my **** smelled like it after awhile...I ain't bull****ting ya either...

    Don't bash it till you try it, but in my case it was just WAY too much for me to handle....
    Well my intial point is that it can be done fairly easy and that you have to take the time and do it. Nobody said actually eating the same thing everyday isn't tough but as far as adding the amounts up, it is. If it wans't easy, everyone would be big and ripped.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    See my above post....^^^

    So, you saying that I'm doing something wrong eating 6000 cals w/o you even knowing me, isn't the same as me saying that "I find it hard to believe that you eat that much whole foods??"

    Okay...
    When pros that weight in at 280lbs and 6% bodyfat don't need 6k calories a day, then I "find it hard to believe" that you need it to. Just because you might be doing something wrong doesn't mean your lying.

    Like I said before, you can find it hard to believe all you want to but it seems you just don't want to do it.

    I never said it was easy doing, just easy to add it up. You seem to be confusing the two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    When pros that weight in at 280lbs and 6% bodyfat don't need 6k calories a day, then I "find it hard to believe" that you need it to. Just because you might be doing something wrong doesn't mean your lying.

    Like I said before, you can find it hard to believe all you want to but it seems you just don't want to do it.

    I never said it was easy doing, just easy to add it up. You seem to be confusing the two.
    Yeah, maybe I was confusing the two...dunno....you're right, you can do it...but it takes an awful lot of work...and when I used to do it....I would vomit once EOD and was only working part-time...

    Yes, its possible...but with powder, it just seems like why even mess with it?? Hey man, thats just me, if you got the money, time, etc to spend on it then by all means gitty-up partner...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    Yeah, maybe I was confusing the two...dunno....you're right, you can do it...but it takes an awful lot of work...and when I used to do it....I would vomit once EOD and was only working part-time...

    Yes, its possible...but with powder, it just seems like why even mess with it?? Hey man, thats just me, if you got the money, time, etc to spend on it then by all means gitty-up partner...
    I agree with ya bro, it is NOT easy to do. Powders are definetly the most convenient invention for bodybuilders that ever existed but they can also be abused too much. You already know the benefits of whole foods so I won't go there...

    I also find that my results have been much better with more whole foods than anything. The body repsonds better to whole foods just from a digestive standpoint to.

    But don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating eliminating powders at all. THats would be rididuclous. Just try to keep more whole foods ESPECIALLY while bulking. Cutting you can get away with more powders and soimetimes its even more benficial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    I agree with ya bro, it is NOT easy to do. Powders are definetly the most convenient invention for bodybuilders that ever existed but they can also be abused too much. You already know the benefits of whole foods so I won't go there...

    I also find that my results have been much better with more whole foods than anything. The body repsonds better to whole foods just from a digestive standpoint to.

    But don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating eliminating powders at all. THats would be rididuclous. Just try to keep more whole foods ESPECIALLY while bulking. Cutting you can get away with more powders and soimetimes its even more benficial.
    Yep, can agree with that...and bump on the benefits of powders for cutting...
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    I think bulking/cutting is a philisophy that should NOT be done away with because it is a GREAt learning tool for newbies to gain size and strength and learn about how food can be the key to making the most out of anything you do in the gym.

    I do agree that bulking/cutting could be done with once you dial in your diet and get some experience under your belt.

    I do agree that some peple abuse the bulking/cutting way of doing things.

    from my own recent experience as a newbie I became food educated and got my diet dialed in last year and bulked at 2pounds a week to gain 50 pounds. I went from 6.7% BF to 18% BF and gained a lot of size, and could still see my top four abs at the end of the 50lbs. now I am cutting, and once I get back down to 10% below, I will probably do away with the bulking/cutting thinking....BUT I would still advocate for the newbies becuase of the learning experience associated with bulking/cutting.

    what I am saying is that I think a bulk (where you eat above maintence) and gain a bit of BF is a good thing for the newbie wanting to achieve size and strength as quickly as possible.

    once you get a year or two under your belt of bulking/cutting, learning how to manipulate your food intake, learning what routines work for you, THEN I think the person can objectively look himself in the mirror and say "lets do away with cutting/bulking." I KNOW how to eat, I KNOW how to TRAIN, and armed with this knowledge I can now make a progression of training where I gain .5 to 1 pound a week and keep BF levels consistant for an overall gain of strenght and size that would make everyone wonder how you do it.

    just me thinking out loud
  20. iron addict's Avatar
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    Protein powder is what makes it actually doable for many, many trainees, myself included. My digestive system just isn't fast enough to process the amount of protein I need in order to grow well when eating animal products for the majority of my feedings. A large percentage of those out there have the same problem, and it's just way more convenient and financially feasable relying on whole foods for the carbs/fats, and powders for the bulk of the days protein intake. BTW, the amino acid profile of most good quality whey protein poweder is actually better then lean meats. But there is no denying that there are micro-nutrients in the meat that are not found in powders.

    Iron Addict
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    True, the only problem is that you can get a rapid influx of aminos's to the point the digestive system (mainly the small intestine) will not process them. The deanimation of excess aminos just causes more nitrogen excretion. That and the combination of lactose (which many people use with whey)can cause a pretty "unpleasant" results as I'm sure many of us here can attest to along with their loved ones

    The financial and convenient aspect is undeniable though.
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    i have a question IA which i never asked while training w/ you.

    On your routine i was taking in around 75g protein w/ amino's per shake. Do you think the body for someone of my size around 190lbs is able to process all this in one sitting? I've heard entirely too much differing opinions. I mean it's much more convenient to take in around 3 shakes of 75g as apposed to more a day w/ around 45g of protein. Its the extra aminos in shakes which makes me think, that doing this would not make it all digest and process too well.
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    So you guys think are in favor of getting half if not more of your required protein from whey?

    I have always relied on food for most of my feeding, but I am willing to try something new.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alke
    So you guys think are in favor of getting half if not more of your required protein from whey?

    I have always relied on food for most of my feeding, but I am willing to try something new.

    I do, but I use egg white protein instead of whey...body just can't handle all that whey anymore...
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    Half your protein from Whey? No whey!

    At the absolute most it should 30%.
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    What would you consider a good combo of diff. protein for cutting Bobo?
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    Depends on your taste tolerance.

    You can eaisly get 3-4 sources in one meal if you want

    (chicken, milk, whey, eggs, grains)

    If you do it right, it adds up failry quick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alke
    So you guys think are in favor of getting half if not more of your required protein from whey?

    I have always relied on food for most of my feeding, but I am willing to try something new.
    What matters is that you get enough protein, some people such as myself have to rely on powders due to being busy etc.

    I prefer whole foods better, but from Mon-Thur I have to rely on powders. Canned tuna and chicken are real cheap and they're the most convenient and economically feasible sources I have found.
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    my number one best ever realization in this game was just how great porridge ( oatmeal ) is.

    a bowl of that with skimmed milk has a pretty good nutrient profile and low GI index, while still having a good amount of carbs and filling me up nicely. as a extomorph by nature its really helped me in the genetically difficult quest for the fabled six pack! its just about here now at 182 2 weeks into a 8 week on a 4-AD / M4-OHN cycle. things can only get better

    I also read somewhere rescently how canned food is almost identical to store bought 'fresh' in terms of micronutrients nowadays, so Im learning to love vegtable soup and I can see a good role for canned chicken too! most of my protein is ON 100% whey at the moment ( well, actualy I ran out, but back on it from monday!)
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    Bobo,

    I know from experience working with LOTS of people that don't have great digestive ability (myself included) that getting 70% of daily protein requirements from animal products is just not feasable. I often have people I train tell me they want to try to get the majority of their daily protein from whole food. it doesn't take most of them long to find out it just isn't doable. If your metabolism allows that GREAT! That doen't mean mine, or the next guys can. I get at LEAST 400 grams a day, At 70%, thats 2.8 lbs of dead animal in front of me--no thanks.

    Iron Addict
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    IA, there are a million sources of protein other than "dead animal" that can easily be found.

    Eating "dead animal" is 10x times better on your digestive system than consuming enormous amounts of whey protein. Thats just a nutritional fact.

    And it is very doable. I have clients right now taking in 400+grams of protein (411g to be precise) with a maximum of 3 shakes per day with only 1 Scoop per shake. I could cut that down if I really wanted to but then the convienent factor starts to play a role. Its really not that hard to do.

    Of course, everyone is different and everyone responds to different foods and is why the most important aspect of any training program is finding out what works for the individual but evolution has set you up to digest whole foods, not enormous amounts of processed whey protein.
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    What are the "other" sources of protein? I'd also like to see where that "nutritional fact" came from that it's easier to digest a steak or chicken than whey. My stomach sure doesn't find that to be true.The whole point is to get enough protein to fuel growth. And doing this for a large percentage of individuals is best accomplished by supplementation. A QUALITY whey protein has a much better amino acid profile than meat products, doesn't have the saturated fats, and is easy to digest (much easier that meat products for most people IME) and is easy on the pocketbook, and convienent. I get BETTER results when supplementing at least 1/2 of my dialy protein requirements with a quality powder. Also, I can't in good faith tell a broke kid going to colledge that he has to spend money he doesn't have on meat products because he needs to get at least 70% of his protein from whole food sources.

    Iron Addict
  33. Get big or die trying
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron addict
    Also, I can't in good faith tell a broke kid going to colledge that he has to spend money he doesn't have on meat products because he needs to get at least 70% of his protein from whole food sources.

    Iron Addict
    Amen
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonBlaze639
    i have a question IA which i never asked while training w/ you.

    On your routine i was taking in around 75g protein w/ amino's per shake. Do you think the body for someone of my size around 190lbs is able to process all this in one sitting? I've heard entirely too much differing opinions. I mean it's much more convenient to take in around 3 shakes of 75g as apposed to more a day w/ around 45g of protein. Its the extra aminos in shakes which makes me think, that doing this would not make it all digest and process too well.
    any comments on my question IA? If anyone else would like to answer feel free as i'd really like to know =)
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    JB, you mean that you were taking in like BCAA's on top of the way you were mixing in your shakes??

    I always thought that too much protein for oyurself each day would just cause more gas, nasty bowel movemnets, etc....

    But not necessarily prohibit other proteins from getting absorbed...is that what you mean??

    I know when that "G-plenish" first came out, I bought a jug.....I just reduced the amount of whey or whatever I was using and made up for that amount with the Glutamine peptides...seemed to do okay thta way...

    damn, my typing stinks..
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron addict
    What are the "other" sources of protein? I'd also like to see where that "nutritional fact" came from that it's easier to digest a steak or chicken than whey. My stomach sure doesn't find that to be true.The whole point is to get enough protein to fuel growth. And doing this for a large percentage of individuals is best accomplished by supplementation. A QUALITY whey protein has a much better amino acid profile than meat products, doesn't have the saturated fats, and is easy to digest (much easier that meat products for most people IME) and is easy on the pocketbook, and convienent. I get BETTER results when supplementing at least 1/2 of my dialy protein requirements with a quality powder. Also, I can't in good faith tell a broke kid going to colledge that he has to spend money he doesn't have on meat products because he needs to get at least 70% of his protein from whole food sources.

    Iron Addict
    The nutrional fact? Whey protein cause a rapid influx of aminos in which the body can't handle if the amount is to great. Why? Because the deanimation of excess amino places an extra burden on the digestive system and will excrete unused nitrogen. Now in simple terms, GAS. With whole foods this is decreased because the digentive system is not bombarded with a large amount at one time not to mention that meat products contain many valuable fat soluble vitamins which are rendered useless when included in other supplements.

    You seem to be stuck on amino profiles but forget the fact that your body won't even use them half the time because they are mostly broken down into glucose via gluconeogensis or excreted as unused nitrogen if the inlfux is to great. As far as price, a can of chicken or tuna is very cheap. If he is broke college student thats fine and there are ways aorund it but I'm talking in terms overall results here for everyone, not just a college kid.

    Other sources? Do you have to ask that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jergo
    I always thought that too much protein for oyurself each day would just cause more gas, nasty bowel movemnets, etc....

    ..
    Thats because many of the elements that aid in digestion of whole foods are taken out in the processing of powders especially with whey proteins. THere is a reason many powders include digentive enzymes but even then it might not help.
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    Jon,

    The answer should be self-evident. Yes, I think someone your size can handle 75 grams of carbs a serving. If I didn't think so, do you think I would have tasked you to do it? MOST people do just fine consuming 75 grams of protein a serving. Jergo, if your protein is bloating you SWITCH BRANDS. The protein form Animal, Dogg, or All the whey digests zero problems.

    Iron Addict
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    Yeah, I notice if I eat a lot of whole foods during the day, I feel more cleared up or rather less bloated...hard to explain...but all that food itself, like for a couple hours at most after each meal before it even really has the chance to digest, I feel full of course, but since I eat so many cals/day, the feeling is just so crappy that it's not worth it to me...

    And then with powder, or more milk as opposed to less dairy, powder, and more whole foods as stated above, I get that bloated feeling and sometimes its really uncomfortable...Even my breathing I noticed is altered...****, LOL....maybe I got more problems than I thought...

    Anyways, I think they can both have advantages/disadvantages, but IMO it's a matter of what your diet is and how your body can handle it...

    I should also mention that my bowel movements seem to be a little better when eating more whole foods, and worse when eating more powders/dairy...

    Just my exp...
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    Quote Originally Posted by iron addict
    Jon,

    The answer should be self-evident. Yes, I think someone your size can handle 75 grams of carbs a serving. If I didn't think so, do you think I would have tasked you to do it? MOST people do just fine consuming 75 grams of protein a serving. Jergo, if your protein is bloating you SWITCH BRANDS. The protein form Animal, Dogg, or All the whey digests zero problems.

    Iron Addict

    Yeah, at first it was just plain whey isolate causing me problems....so then I switched to egg white powder....did okay for awhile, but now the same things are starting to happen again...I still can't pinpoint the problem...
  

  
 

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