BigCasino's Workout - Good or Bad for size?
05-23-2004 11:58 PM
BigCasino's Workout - Good or Bad for size?
I have been using this routine for a while now, and I am curious if you think it is optimal for muscle size / mass, as that is my primary goal. I have been gaining strength quickly with this routine, but I am wondering if I could be gaining size faster.....
Monday - Chest
Flat DB Press 4 x (4-6)
Incline DB Press 4 x (4-6)
Decline DB Press4 x (4-6)
DB Flys 3 x (4-6)
Tuesday - Arms (bi / tri)
Straigh bar curls 4 x (4-6)
Hammer curls 4 x (4-6)
Skull Crushers 4 x (4-6)
Tricep Cable pull down 4 x 8
Cable curls - 3 x 10
Behind the head DB extension 4 x (4-6)
Wrist Curls 3 x 8
Wens - Legs
Squats 4 x (4-6)
Leg press 4 x (4-6)
Leg Extension 4 x (4-6)
Leg Curl 4 x (4-6)
Standing calf raise 4 x (10)
Seated Calf raise 4 x (10)
Deadlifts 4 x (4-6)
Thurs - Shoulders / Traps
Seated DB Press 4 x (4-6)
Frontal DB raise 4 x (4-6)
Lateral DB raise 4 x (4-6)
Shoulder Shrugs 4 x (4-6)
Upright Rows 4 x (4-6)
Friday - Back / Abs
Stiff Leg Deadlifts 4 x (4-6)
Wide grip chins 4 x (4-6)
wide grip cable pulldowns 4 x (4-6)
T-Bar Rows 4 x (4-6)
Roman Chair raises 4 x 12
Crunches 4 sets to failure
Saturday and Sunday are my rest days.
I usually rest 1-2 mins in between sets.
Some of my local gym buddies are using HST based training programs, they keep trying to convince me to switch over, what are your thoughts on that?
05-24-2004 03:06 AM
That's a lot of sets and exercises per body part you're doing there. You are more than likely overtraining. Take a look at Iron Addicts website HERE and check out some of the routines he suggests in his articles. Check the "Routines I Like" article. I'm currently following his 3-day double rotation routine and have been loving it.
Also, browse some of the other routines here on the board. They have a lot of comments and suggestions given by the bro's.
Best of luck to you.
05-24-2004 03:31 AM
i don't think it's more than likely he's overtraining, but i hear this stuff so much in this group i just accept it now like background noise. . first of all, you more likely than not mean overREACHING not overtraining, and second of all i dont' see the volume as particularly high
assessing whether or not volume is too high without corresponding info on intensity (%max) per set is completely impossible
now, in regards to the program, you ask if it is "optimal"
that's an impossible question to ask. there is no one OPTIMAL routine that anybody can design for anybody due to individual variance, and all sorts of factors, etc.
the question is "is it good" and you ask specifically for MUSCLE SIZE/MASS
imo, this routine is suboptimal (to say the least) for MUSCLE SIZE/MASS
it would be ok as a sort of hybrid SIZE-MASS/STRENGTH routine, but any routine that sticks to mostly 4-6 reps is suboptimal for mass gains. 4-6 reps is a good compromise between mass emphasis and strength emphasis, though (see: starr's work)
although, the short rest periods do help, with the medium reps for hypertrophy's sake
in regards to HST, i think it is a very good system. better suited for many, than your program would be.
05-24-2004 05:29 AM
1. You gotta have dips in your routine, for chest and triceps.
2. I prefer higher reps for legs.
3. Tell us about your diet. If you don't have a good diet you won't grow on any program.
05-24-2004 01:07 PM
Thanks guys this is exactly the kind of feedback I need, keep it up
I'm checking out Iron Addict's site right now, thanks for the link!
you were talking about being unsure about whether the volume is too high because you need to know the % of max? Well the weights I use for those reps are the max I can lift. In other words, for the exercises I do 4-6 reps with, I use weight that there is no way I could do another rep after 6 with proper form. I understand what you are saying about the rep range being sub-optimal for hypertrophy, so in that case, would it make sense to change it from a 4-6 to 6-8, or would 8-10 be even better?
Well right now I am cutting so it is hard to say about the diet, so I am in a bit of a caloric deficit, certainly have not been growing lately, but I seem to have been retaining most of my strength. I'm currently, 18 (19 in 3 weeks), 5'10", and 190lbs @ 16% bf. I am going to be cuttin for about three more weeks, and then I am making the transition to a bulking diet. Right now I get 1g protein / 1lb of body weight, and will probably try to double that ration on my bulking diet. Also, supplements I take: Creatine, multivitamin, whey protein, ZMA, and flax seed oil.
So I am going back to bulking soon, and basically I want to gain as much muscle as possible on my next bulking cycle. I think I will have the right diet, and supps, and I know I got the heart, I just need to figure out the best routine to accomplish it...
05-25-2004 06:57 PM
Come on, surely someone else has something to add as well?
I am kind of torn between using a MAX-OT style training, or HST style training this summer, thing is I really do not have time to d*ck around and "experiment" with them, I have been doing searches on them on various BBing boards on the web, and everywhere it is bickering back and forth, but I know this board is a bit more "wise" shall we say then some of hte other boards I have been investigating, where the members say "this is better because... I said so!!", so if anyone has any arguments as to what type of routine would be best for adding most amount of lean mass as fast as possible, I am all ears!!
05-25-2004 07:08 PM
bigCasino, except as a semi-occasional training method, i am generally against lifting to failure. if you are saying you do each 4-6 rep set with your 6 rep max, imo that is suboptimal to say the least.
i am a BIG fan of HST for hypertrophy. so, imo give HST a try. it seems weird for people who are used to lifting HIT style, etc. but it works.
4-6 is suboptimal for hypertrophy (although it preferentially chooses sarcomere vs. sarcoplasmic hypertrophy - iow "dense" muscle), as i said. great for a strength/size compromise and the basis for such programs as star's 5*5
HST uses a periodized routine wherein rep ranges change, giving one the best of the various rep ranges (while being suboptimal for strength athletes certainly) and also gives the connective tissues a break.
give it a try, imo.
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