Cortisol Controversy.....Opinions

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    Cortisol Controversy.....Opinions


    I have obviously seen the topic of cortisol control quite often while searching the threads here. Whether it be discussed in pct for muscle preservation, while cutting or in general, it seems to be discussed quite frequently and is obviously important for many reasons. Thats why this article in Men's Health caught my eye. Please don't flame me for this, it get's boring on an ambulance all day.
    " Q: The ads claim that cortisol reducers will help shed fat. Will they?
    A: Nope. Don't waste your money on anticortisol supplements. The weight-cortisol link is rooted in the 1980 study in which researchers saw a correlation between higher body weight and increased output of cortisol in urine. From that data, it's convenient to assume (and market) that cortisol is a cause of belly fat. Problem is, no research shows that high cortisol levels increase fat. Sure, obese folks will have more cortisol in their urine, but they won't in their blood, where it counts. In fact, high blood-cortisol levels can be a side effect of fat loss. In a recent U.S. Army study, soldiers on a rigorous training regimen saw their cortisol spike while their fat mass dropped 50%.
    Alan Aragon
    Nutritionist in Thousand Oaks, CA"

    Now, that being said, I didn't see any references listed and I know nothing about the man or his reputation, but I did find the article interesting and I'd like to know what anyone else thinks about it. Obviously the article is in relation to fat loss products,but if his theory is correct, and I quote, "Don't waste your money on anticortisol supplements.", do you believe that would possibly have applications in pct anti-cortisol products and how they are used, or do you think the guy is totally off all together?

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    Well he did say that Army soldiers had high levels of cortisol due to rigorous exercise. So aside from the fat loss question, if you train rigorously and regularly you will have higher cortisol. So if the products at least do what they claim and lower cortisol, then I would say it is worth it.
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    I appreciate the response youngandfree and I see what you're saying. I just can't help but wonder sometimes if all the mechanisms that are working in our bodies in response to stress, training, diet etc. are not what's best for our bodies but instead we take chemicals to supress them just to maximize short term gains when long term health could be at risk. If messing with test/est levels is such a delicate balance, and I believe that it is, isn't messing with cortisol, insulin etc just as risky. I guess my point is, that although the soldiers trained rigourously and had higher cortisol levels they still lost weight (according to the study) . So how do we know that it is necessarily a good thing to lower cortisol for maximizing gains during pct? Everything I have read about the subject has come off of AM. I have never participated in or conducted an independent study so I have to take EVERYTHING at face value. I'm just trying to keep an open mind I guess and think outside the box. I'm not trying to be contrary I promise, I just want to fully understand what the hell it is that I'm about to put in my body. Again, thank you for the response.
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    Alan Aragon is a well-respected mind and used to be a frequent poster here on AM; I would take his words worth some weight.
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    Fat has it's own cortisol that will not show up on a blood test. Inhibiting the enzyme that converts cortisone to cortisol (17b-HSD type1) locally leads to impressive fat loss for many. Growth hormone has its own effect on the enzyme and that is why it affects fat loss greatly.

    Still, cortisol is needed in fat tissue to have the fat released from the cells. Hence you want it in a good range, not high and not low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Alan Aragon is a well-respected mind and used to be a frequent poster here on AM; I would take his words worth some weight.
    Thank you. I'm glad others chimed in. You guys here at AM, with the help of a search button, is where I get 99% of my info and I saw this article and it kind of raised an eyebrow. Since he is apparently reputable and respected by at least some I'm glad I didn't just waste my time with this thread on some guy writing BS to get exposure in a pop-mag. Honestly, I'd never heard of the guy. I guess my curiousity in the subject comes from my trying to put together my pct (months down the road) and my decision on AI's, anti-cort's etc. When I first began dreaming of my "perfect cycle/pct plan" I started to notice that my pct was a plethera of chemical, upon chemical, upon chemical and I started thinking.... this cannot be good. Then I read that article. While I understand that the article doesn't really have any direct references to pct, I was still wondering if anyone out there has had experience with or without anti-cort products during pct and how things turned out for that particular subject. (Rather than just put down a sample cycle and pct and simply ask for opinions/ critiques, I'm really trying to research this and make the most educated hypothesis for me). I appreciate any effort. Thanks.
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    Topical 7-oxo dhea is giving me some nice size while keeping off fat... not really perfectly on topic but still interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMT803 View Post
    I appreciate the response youngandfree and I see what you're saying. I just can't help but wonder sometimes if all the mechanisms that are working in our bodies in response to stress, training, diet etc. are not what's best for our bodies but instead we take chemicals to supress them just to maximize short term gains when long term health could be at risk. If messing with test/est levels is such a delicate balance, and I believe that it is, isn't messing with cortisol, insulin etc just as risky. I guess my point is, that although the soldiers trained rigourously and had higher cortisol levels they still lost weight (according to the study) . So how do we know that it is necessarily a good thing to lower cortisol for maximizing gains during pct? Everything I have read about the subject has come off of AM. I have never participated in or conducted an independent study so I have to take EVERYTHING at face value. I'm just trying to keep an open mind I guess and think outside the box. I'm not trying to be contrary I promise, I just want to fully understand what the hell it is that I'm about to put in my body. Again, thank you for the response.
    This is why I am taing supplements that basically give me nutrients that the body burns during training. Every time I take something to bost performance thaat has nothing to do with health, I end up regretting it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    This is why I am taing supplements that basically give me nutrients that the body burns during training. Every time I take something to bost performance thaat has nothing to do with health, I end up regretting it.
    Did you have any bad experiences with any anti-cort's by chance (for fat loss or during pct)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    This is why I am taing supplements that basically give me nutrients that the body burns during training. Every time I take something to bost performance thaat has nothing to do with health, I end up regretting it.
    I agree but at your stats you are either A. over weight, B. A genetic freak or C. A heavy cycler...

    No matter what all three of those groups notice little from 95% of supplements for very different reasons. I agree with you that most supps are bull-poop but I find some useful.
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    That was interesting Cerberus. Thank you. I gathered from that article that anti-cort products for just the average, active person shouldn't be necessary. Does it change the common consensus that anti-corts should be used during pct in your/ anyone's opinion? Has anyone used anti-corts during pct in one cycle and not in others? If so, was a huge difference noted?
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    i am using topical 7-oxo dhea from ForceofGreen labs with their formestane and the combo simply works. I didn't believe in it but something very good is going on, I am not gaining fat and my lifts are up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    i am using topical 7-oxo dhea from ForceofGreen labs with their formestane and the combo simply works. I didn't believe in it but something very good is going on, I am not gaining fat and my lifts are up.
    I've been taking Diesel Test Pro-cycle which has DHEA and Pregnenolone (orally, of course). I haven't been having the greatest results. That product looks interesting. I've noticed that you've mentioned it twice so you obviously feel strongly about it. Would you mind giving me a small rundown of what it is (please don't flame me for not searching it)? Just looking at the name I would assume that it is a different absorbtion route for DHEA and an otc estrogen reducer. Is it supposed to stimulate a natural rise in test? Did you run it solo before adding the formestane and if so, was it still as effective? I would DEFINETLY be curious about trying it after DTP. Thank you for any info.
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    The difference is that he is using the transdermal 7-oxo (7-keto) which has a much more pronounced effect on fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. I am using Suppress-C currently and I am leaning out visibly by the day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMT803 View Post
    Did you have any bad experiences with any anti-cort's by chance (for fat loss or during pct)?
    Well, I don't do prohormones so I have never really done PCT. I find that taking laots of stimulants and those 1 gram vitamin C pills(even though I was getting enough through diet and my multi) seemed to aggrevate adrenal exaustion. I've cut out stims and the excess C and now I feel a lot better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    The difference is that he is using the transdermal 7-oxo (7-keto) which has a much more pronounced effect on fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. I am using Suppress-C currently and I am leaning out visibly by the day.
    That's interesting. I might do some looking into that. Thank you both.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    Well, I don't do prohormones so I have never really done PCT. I find that taking laots of stimulants and those 1 gram vitamin C pills(even though I was getting enough through diet and my multi) seemed to aggrevate adrenal exaustion. I've cut out stims and the excess C and now I feel a lot better.
    Agreed. I was all about ECA stacks for a long time until I read up on it and found out that it could produce methamphetamine like sides (which I was beginning to experience). I felt like crap and my hair was even starting to get visibly thinner. Since ceasing, everything is resolved for the most part. I definetly wish I would have been wise enough to research the things that I was experimenting with back in my younger days which is why I really like the fact that that common sense practice is preached here so heavily. It has helped me A LOT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    The difference is that he is using the transdermal 7-oxo (7-keto) which has a much more pronounced effect on fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. I am using Suppress-C currently and I am leaning out visibly by the day.
    7-oxo in metamorphosis also increases t3 production. I am definitely staying leaner eating far more carbs than normal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    7-oxo in metamorphosis also increases t3 production. I am definitely staying leaner eating far more carbs than normal.
    Thanks to both of you. I really appreciate the positive feedback. I'm really looking to find some otc products that aren't going to reak havoc (no pun intended) on my system. I don't have the genes to be a monster so lean is probably the most realistic goal. These products sound perfect for research. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveoph View Post
    Alan Aragon is a well-respected mind and used to be a frequent poster here on AM; I would take his words worth some weight.
    In general i agree and I have subscribed to his newsletter, however a significant majority of what he says (like over 90%) is negative - ie pointing to flaws in studies, stating his opinion on why things won't work. Very very rarely does he give any examples of what does work....
    This space for rent

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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    The difference is that he is using the transdermal 7-oxo (7-keto) which has a much more pronounced effect on fat loss, especially in the abdominal area. I am using Suppress-C currently and I am leaning out visibly by the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by justreading View Post
    7-oxo in metamorphosis also increases t3 production. I am definitely staying leaner eating far more carbs than normal.
    I was considering doing the combo of suppress-c + Metamorphosis to get both the 7-oxo and 17b triol. Only problem of course is suppressing cortisol too far make me want to take a nap
    This space for rent

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    Get the M, it probably has a friendlier carrier
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    Get the M, it probably has a friendlier carrier
    The carrier on metamorphosis dissipates in minutes, more like seconds if you rub it on for more than a split second. It is very thick and does not run out onto the floor but it also spreads out even and fast. It is the easiest to use transdermal I have ever used.
    Last edited by justreading; 10-02-2009 at 09:13 AM. Reason: grammar
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    So it's not the one that foams like TF1?
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    So it's not the one that foams like TF1?

    Yeah same one... why would you have thought it wasn't?
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    When you said 'thin' I thought of straight liquid.
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    Quote Originally Posted by machinehead View Post
    When you said 'thin' I thought of straight liquid.
    Ha I wrote "think" thin and thick combined wow what a meathead. I'll fix it thanks ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdong View Post
    This is why I am taing supplements that basically give me nutrients that the body burns during training. Every time I take something to bost performance thaat has nothing to do with health, I end up regretting it.
    Good point but what may not be necessarily healthy for you might be exactly what another needs. Someone with naturally low cortisol who wants to drop their bf% from 6% to 5% in record time by taking a cort blocker most likely isnt doing anything "healthy" for themselves...another who cant get through an average workout without cortisol levels sky rocketing out of control might be doing a very good thing health-wise by taking a supp.
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    Just a quick question, (a yes or no will do, please don't "search flame" me).......After using an anti-cort product, after discontinuation, is there a possibility for rebound cortisol production? . I only have 4hrs credit of college AnP so I'm definetly cool with someone dumbing it down for me. I only ask because it seems like that could make sense given the negative feedback loop, etc and the way test and estr work together. On the same note, is there a hormone that acts inversely or proportionatly to cortisol production or reduction ( with or without exogenous sources) in a similiar manner? Thank you guys for all of your time.
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