A tiny waist? No way!!
- 01-16-2004, 12:09 PM
A tiny waist? No way!!
Guys like Dexter Jackson, Richard Jones, even Lee Haney and Frank Zane had one thing in common.. The small waistline that showed extreme taper in their upper to lower proportions.. Frank even went to limit by incorporating the vaccum pose into his routine, a pose many pros can't do these days because the waist issue isn't an issue anymore..
Most people think a small waist is something you work for, not even.. It's a genetic occurance that you either have or don't, but it doesn't mean you can't have a waist smaller than you already have.. Ok, some may think to have a small waist if not predisposed to it, you'll lose muscle.. My waist only fluctuates between 29.5" competition weight, to the highest of 32" even at my heaviest (219).. It's indeed a genetic thing, like bicep peaks, but you can get your waist down to size if need be, no muscle loss..
Abdominals, and Androgen use:
Your abs respond, grow, and need rest such as anyother musclegroup.. Some seem determined to tirelessly crunch themselves to death for a slim waist, and ripped abs, when that isn't the way.. Many rely on androgen use to do this as well, just to resmble Jean-Pierre Fux on a bad day(if he has good days).. Waterweight, and estrogen related bloat take place in the abdomen of men, women tend to get it around the hips also.. Androgens will speed up muscle recovery, abs being the fastest recovering, this will mean immediate growth for your torso.. I've seen guys who used weights in their ab routines now have six-packs, yet appear to be pregnant.. When using androgens, concentrate on regular movements like crunches, or using the Swiss Ball for abwork.. This is stressed because the idea is building core strength, not making your appearance blocky, think The Hulk, not The Thing!
IGF-1, and Insulin use:
Regular IGF-1(Insulin-like Growth Factor-1) can cause hypertrophy of any muscle it's injected into.. Some go overboard with dosing, and end up with the Humpty Dumpty gut.. The large intestine has way too many receptor sites for IGF-1, which is the reasoning for the distention of the abdomen.. Insulin is a highly anabolic analogue, yet can be dangerous.. Misuse can lead to either dependency(this is debateable), fat gain, or even receptor burn out, death as well.. Also, some may feel that if they ingest high amounts of carbs with fat, they can maximize storage of the two in muscle.. Wrong! Carbs+Fat+Insulin= Large Gut! Fat with insulin makes it easier to be stored as such, this also hurts protein synthesis.. To keep your waistline under while on 'slin, keep most carbs low glycemic, and go for a fast-acting product like Humalog, which allows you to load on high GI carbs, yet it clears your body in 1hr or less.. Once again, insulin is dangerous if you miss the sides, or use too much at once, I don't condem or condone its use..
IGF-LR3 and localized fat burning:
The new version of an altered IGF-1 called LR3(Long Release-3) has been the rage so far in the BB circle.. Some say they get no effect, many I've spoken to one-on-one say it's even better than gear.. Once again, the duration and amount used could affect you efforts to a smaller waistline.. I've read that some have had distention, but after cycle it went away.. Also, spot sub-q shots have had an affect on surrounding fat deposits.. This is also true with Hgh, but LR3 seems so far to be faster in this aspect.. So far, IGF-1 LR3 looks promising as far as keeping lean, and muscle fullness..
The REAL way to keep a small waist:
Diet! Yes, clean eating will keep your abs showing no matter what.. I'm hovering at 200lbs, usually, my abs are not visible at 180lbs, 200lbs I normally look like a tub!
Just an idea, here's what I do to maintain my genetic gift..
1. Hydration: I drink plenty of water, 1 gallon a day, increase to half a gallon in hotter temps, and when dieting for a show.. The more water you take in, the less your body will hold, due to the steady surplus entering..
2. No ab work!: I do basic core exercises to keep my mid-section strong, but I don't have a day where I go balls-out on my abs.. Doing 1000 crunches has no real affect on how your waist will respond.. Some are just lucky thier metabolism is high enough to keep their abs from becoming bigger than the rest of them.. I do, however, work my abs in a set routine 2 weeks out from a show, to keep them sharp, and to get them used to flexing for long periods of time.. Here's my simple routine for abs before a show:
a) Hanging Leg raises- 2 sets@ 15 reps, no arm straps/ABoriginals crap, I hang, baby!
b) Swiss Ball crunches- 3 sets@ 10 reps, slow and controlled
c) Decline Bench crunches- 2 sets@ 10 reps
Note I don't do oblique work, because that can also add to the blocky look.. Look at Brock Lesnar's waist next time you see him on TV, he has really thick obliques, he almost looks square because of it..
3.Diet! Yes, I said "diet" yet again! Noone understands that you burn more calories than you ingest to burn fat, not kill yourself on a treadmill for 3 hours.. I still eat carbs, plenty of protein, and add fats like flax and olive oil when I need to cut up.. I never do cardio, because my training is intense enough to get those cals out.. I've had afew clients try a diet I formulated, and they lost a pretty impressive amount of weight, without cardio.. I've dieted down this way the past 3 years, and still seem to get it together for showtime..
Don't take all this as scientific mumbo-jumbo I'm reading off somewhere, it's all from my head, brothers! I read alittle too much at times, and remember what I need to, so I'm passing along what I've read, or what I've spoken to actual guys/girls as far as this goes..
If I left anything out, ask, I'll try to answer or find you a study on it..
- 01-16-2004, 01:31 PM
Good read BigPeteFox!
Thanks for taking time out of your day to share your knowledge!
- 01-16-2004, 02:08 PM
Anything for my brothers..
Besides, it's something to consider when people usually tell me I suck because I have the waist of a 12yr old girl once contest time hits..
01-16-2004, 02:50 PM
I agree! Who needs to do abs when you already have a 38in waist.
01-16-2004, 06:07 PM
Makes sense Big Pete. BTW, you're looking really great these days in your avatar. You seem to be making really great progress over the past 1-2 years. Keep up the good work, and keep advising us of how you're doing it
01-16-2004, 08:05 PM
I will unfortunately never have a small waist. When I weighed approx 80lbs less I still only had 31 inch waist compared to now I have 32-33. It is depressing
01-16-2004, 08:12 PM
It seems to me that from a non-competetive standpoint, if you have at least a 10-12 inch difference between your stomach (measured around the navel, not what pants size one fits into) and your chest, you're going to have that desirable "tapered" appearance to your physique.Originally Posted by size
Screw the 30" waist, go for the 48"-50" chest instead
01-17-2004, 10:16 AM
One huge thing you left out is training the inner abs. Almost nobody seems to know about this. People do endless ab work, and while they may be lean, their stomach isn't flat. This is due to an imbalance in strength and hypertrophy of the inner and outer abdominal walls. The "vacuum" that you spoke of cannot be done without strengthening the inner wall of the abdominals. All of the exercises that you mentioned are going to cause said imbalance.
Here's a pretty good article on this subject and how to train the inner abdominal wall: http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/266ab2.html
Also, when it comes to androgen use and the stomach, much of the problem is not just estrogen and bloating. Androgens directly cause an increase in VAT. This is where "roid gut" comes from, it's not bloating. Said problem is also exacerbated by these guys not knowing how to properly train abs.
01-17-2004, 11:25 AM
now this is an article, awesome as always P-Funk... way to tear the roof off the muthasucka
the workout tips are crucial, especially for people like me to keep in mind... at 6'4" my waist when I was skinniest (in HIGH SCHOOL before I started lifting) was around 31-32 inches... now my bodyfat is moderate (winter in Wisconsin, what can ya do ) and I'm sitting at an even 34 inches, BUT I don't do a massive ab attack... there was a period where I did and my obliques began to fill out very quickly, as various odd muscle groups tend to respond very well on some of us. keeping in mind the other aspects you can control like delt thickness (not overall clavicle width, again genetics but you CAN hang more muscle off the ends of that sucka), chest thickness (can't have overworked abs and underworked chest, that REALLY looks goofy) and even quad size, I think it's very possible for almost everyone to have an appreciable tapered, leaned look. the hardest part is always the beginning, determining what YOUR body needs and tailoring your training to it. here's to us all striving to be that 12 year old girl P-Funk exemplifies so very well
01-17-2004, 12:00 PM
Agreed! Great read, I'm going to try it. Thanks for posting it.
But in any event, still go for the 50" chest
01-17-2004, 12:27 PM
The enlargement of the abdominal wall isn't caused by AAS, and "roid gut" is a myth bigtime.. Only Gh and IGF-1 cause the distention because of high receptor count in the intestines, and mainly the abdominal wall itself.. My thing about training abs while on androgens was the fact that you run the risk of the abs becoming blocky, which is why I used Brock Lesnar as an example..Originally Posted by Onslaught
PC1, hanks for the compliments, brother! I might post some progress pics up soon, bulking until June..
01-17-2004, 12:30 PM
i heared that stomach vacium exercise is the best option to keep waist small....Back in the '70s, bodybuilders used to perform both a pose and an exercise called The Abdominal Vacuum where, in a standing position with the arms extended overhead (elbows bent, hands behind the head), the abs were sucked in as if they were trying to touch their bellybuttons to their spinal columns. This is yet another way to help develop intra-abdominal strength and support.
San Diego State University/ACE Abdominal Study Results
For strengthening the rectus abdominus, the 13 exercises were ranked from most to least effective:
1. Bicycle maneuver
2. Captainís chair
3. Crunches on exercise ball
4. Vertical leg crunch
5. Torso track
6. Long arm crunch
7. Reverse crunch
8. Crunch with heel push
9. Ab roller
11. Traditional crunch
12. Exercise tubing pull
13. Ab rocker
For strengthening the obliques, the 13 exercises were ranked most to least effective:
1. Captainís chair
2. Bicycle maneuver
3. Reverse crunch
5. Vertical leg crunch
6. Crunch on exercise ball
7. Torso track
8. Crunch with heel push
9. Long arm crunch
10. Ab roller
11. Traditional crunch
12. Exercise tubing pull
13. Ab rocker
01-17-2004, 02:45 PM
Androgen use is directly linked to an increase in viceral adipose tissue (VAT). I didn't say anything about organs growing or the abominal wall thickening; read my post again. VAT is the fat around the organs and most certainly does become a problem with heavy androgen use. This is certainly not a myth.
01-17-2004, 07:25 PM
01-17-2004, 07:32 PM
Hey Onslaught, could we have some material to back it up, please.. medical studies,etc would be nice to read
01-17-2004, 11:32 PM
01-18-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Onslaught
I'll post studies after you do..
01-20-2004, 11:44 PM
what are captain's chairs and bicycle maneuvers? I'd like to try them if they're that much more effective over crunches.
01-20-2004, 11:51 PM
Bicycle maneuvers are basically crunches while bring ing one knee at a time to your elbows while alternating.. Captain's Chair, I never heard of, then again what do I know I don't do cardio and still get ripped..Originally Posted by hypo
01-20-2004, 11:54 PM
AAS certainly may encourage VAT increase but it does not definitively cause it.
HGH will cause the extended gut.
01-20-2004, 11:55 PM
If only you knew how PISSED OFF that makes me.Originally Posted by bigpetefox
01-21-2004, 10:33 AM
One reason why I never post show pics.. You'd really be pissed to see what condition I come in with this year..Originally Posted by size
01-27-2004, 07:27 PM
post anyway. wanna see what no cardio condition looks like. if you are lean as hell in your pic with no cardio, i can only imagine what a contest diet makes you look like. keep it up bro
01-27-2004, 07:42 PM
Sorry, I totally forgot about this thread. I'll dig some stuff up.Originally Posted by Matthew D
03-20-2004, 12:35 AM
Even when I'm around 10%bf (sad but the lowest I've ever been...I'm going to beat it this summer though) I still have a 32-33in waist.Originally Posted by size
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