Complete Isolation vs Isolation vs Compound

[majinbijiita]

Now that I am hoping to start ramping up my bodybuilding, because I have more time, I had some questions come up.

I've been working out religiously 3x a week for months now (Idk how many. 3-5?) I've slowly gotten better form, and my mind-muscle connection is getting better.

Anyways, I've struggled with this issue recently so I'm looking for some insight.

Do I do very low weight but achieve total isolation, higher weight but still relatively isolated, or more weight but compound exercises?

What I mean by total isolation is, for example: On skullcrushers I can move my shoulders and back in a way that the only muscles that get hit are the triceps, but then the amount of weight I use must be very low to even get out 3-4 reps.

Do you think I should up the weight and have stabilizer muscles contribute? Will I grow faster this way?

And until recently I've really only worked out my biceps and triceps...now I'm trying to incorporate some squats for extra test. Part of the reason I haven't done the compound movements is I don't have a bench, I just use the floor, and I don't have that much room.

Anyways, I'm just trying to figure out if my "complete isolation" is detrimental or not to my growth. I see growth after everyworkout, so I know it's working...and I think I do it this way because I see results...but I'm thinking I may need to start working on other exercises to spread out the growth. My arms are big enough at this point I guess. But, I kinda have to weight on doing some exercises until I move to my new place. There is no room to do it where I live, and you can't do proper movements on the ground.

Any help is appreciated! Sorry for the rambling, I just took my pre-/wo caffeine, lol.

 

[suncloud]

personally, i do compound movements first - which allows me to use maximal weight. i follow that with isolation to finish beating the target muscles down and building up more of a pump.

in my experience, the more weights you use (compound), the more muscle you can gain (diet and rep range willing), followed by isolation to squeeze the blood into the target muscles.

everyone trains a bit differently here. some people do compound movements with a range of 3x6, then isolation 2-4x8-10. others do the opposite. find the best one for you.

at 5'9" and 135 i suspect the compound movements will lead to better overall mass.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

I think the last statement by Sunny is spot on. You need to stick to the basic compound movements first and put some size on that frame. I think the food calories need to come up as well.

 

[majinbijiita]

I figured you'd say that suncloud. lol

I upped the weight a little bit today, and got less isolation, but overall more pump I think, so I'll try that for awhile and see if I like the results more or less.

Thanks for the reply!

 

[majinbijiita]

AZMID - I've already got some fat pockets going on after upping the cals. I gained 10 pounds in a week, so I'm cutting back. It was healthy foods too mostly. A lot of 2% fat cottage cheese.

I can't do the compound movements until I move too...I just don't have the equipment at the moment. But I will focus on those once I can.

Thanks for your insight!

 

[AZMIDLYF]

No problem M..

 

[GymRat7197]

Isolations are intended to assist compounds in bringing up lagging parts.

For someone who would train all natural, optimal results can easily be achieved by using strict compound movements; however, if your synergists are causing your bench press to fail then working those synergists and strengthening them using isolations can help increase the body parts necessary to achieve a higher bench press.

If I train with just bench presses, I'll get stronger, until my triceps plateau. If my triceps plateau, it's usually a good idea to bring in some isolation to strengthen the triceps so that my bench press can increase. Letting weak triceps hold all the muscles the bench utilize just doesn't make sense to me.

So with this in mind, I feel the compounds should always come first, but isolations have their place depended upon goals.

As a beginner you would ideally want to master compound exercises, high calories or low calories (depended up on a bulk / cut preference) and progressive resistance.

 

[buster0371]

Isolations are intended to assist compounds in bringing up lagging parts.

For someone who would train all natural, optimal results can easily be achieved by using strict compound movements; however, if your synergists are causing your bench press to fail then working those synergists and strengthening them using isolations can help increase the body parts necessary to achieve a higher bench press.

If I train with just bench presses, I'll get stronger, until my triceps plateau. If my triceps plateau, it's usually a good idea to bring in some isolation to strengthen the triceps so that my bench press can increase. Letting weak triceps hold all the muscles the bench utilize just doesn't make sense to me.

So with this in mind, I feel the compounds should always come first, but isolations have their place depended upon goals.

As a beginner you would ideally want to master compound exercises, high calories or low calories (depended up on a bulk / cut preference) and progressive resistance.

I agree that compounds always come first and are important for building body mass. However, isolation exercises are more for fine tuning and sculpting. A noob shouldn't do hardly any isolation because what is he fine tuning? nothing....

 

[GymRat7197]

I agree that compounds always come first and are important for building body mass. However, isolation exercises are more for fine tuning and sculpting. A noob shouldn't do hardly any isolation because what is he fine tuning? nothing....

Isolations aren't for "toning". Tone is dictated by bodyfat%. Tone is having defined muscles and defined muscles are achieved by having low bodyfat%, not done by exercises, you build muscle via bulking then you TONE muscle by cutting bodyfat to make the appearance of the muscle more noticable.

I'm sure most people already know that to lose bodyfat, it's more in the calorie deficient and a little to do with the intense cardio.

 

[buster0371]

Isolations aren't for "toning". Tone is dictated by bodyfat%. Tone is having defined muscles and defined muscles are achieved by having low bodyfat%, not done by exercises, you build muscle via bulking then you TONE muscle by cutting bodyfat to make the appearance of the muscle more noticable.

I'm sure most people already know that to lose bodyfat, it's more in the calorie deficient and a little to do with the intense cardio.

i didnt say toning i said sculpting. like if you wanna target a particular head of a muscle to make it larger or what have you. iso exercises are for sculpting to the exact proportions you want your body to be. however they are poor for building overall body mass!

 

[GymRat7197]

i didnt say toning i said sculpting. like if you wanna target a particular head of a muscle to make it larger or what have you. iso exercises are for sculpting to the exact proportions you want your body to be. however they are poor for building overall body mass!

I assumed by sculpting you meant toning.

But yes, an isolation movement can allow you to hit the muscle more efficiently. For example, you could hit the outter head and the inner head of the bicep better with close and wide grip curls in opposed to a barbell / yates row where you would be utilizing the bicep as a synergist; however, the body grows as a whole if you train it as a whole.

The hitting the inner head, outter head, and being particular about your movements should come after you've developed your frame with compound movement training.

 

[stullsy]

i work movements not muscles, even though muscles are working during my movements. i rarely do isolation movements except maybe for triceps and delts and i do do work with heavy dumbells at times. Ive found out that i get the most growth when i take 3 or 4 compound exercises in a day and work them intense or beat the piss out of them with volume.

 

[GymRat7197]

i work movements not muscles, even though muscles are working during my movements. i rarely do isolation movements except maybe for triceps and delts and i do do work with heavy dumbells at times. Ive found out that i get the most growth when i take 3 or 4 compound exercises in a day and work them intense or beat the piss out of them with volume.

Agreed. This is the approach I sometimes use.

Instead of going to train "legs" I train squats, presses and pullups.

I lift with enough volume and intensity on squatting to make the decision that additional isolations and/or other direct compounds aren't necessary.