Cardio and fat loss

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    Cardio and fat loss


    So my wife was asking about cardio and fat loss. it the old thought of low HR still hold true. She is 26 yrs old 132lbs 5' 4" and 24% she is now hitting weights and wants to do cardio correctly. I believe her goal is 20% then set new goals


    what should her target HR be and how long for fat loss.

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    220BPM - AGE = MAX HR

    MAX HR x (% desired) = Target Heart Rate.

    Many schools of thought on target HR for fat loss. I recommend trying various rates to see how she responds.

    I suggest if she is just starting out to target at about 65-70% Max HR for starters for 20 to 30 mins. Maybe introduce intervals as well.

    My philosophy is that if you start out with something that does not overwhelm her she will be successful and therefor be motivated to continue.

    Of course after this post 20 guys will tell you HIIT is the only way.

    Good luck.
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    Low heart rate, high heart rate. It does not matter.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrBigPR View Post
    Low heart rate, high heart rate. It does not matter.
    I agree ^^^ Just do it, there are benefits to both HIIT and state state cardio. I'd say do a mix of the two if possible to reap all the benefits.

    Try low-intensity, steady state cardio post-weights/on a morning before breakfast and HIIT on your days off.

    The main point is that you do your cardio.

    Has she tried something like jump rope? If you can keep it up for a decent length of time it burns calories like a furnace and offers a respite from the routine HIIT and steady state cardio.
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    Have you read about Lyle McDonalds method of cardio? I have been using this with great success. I have always been a fan of fasted steady state cardio, but I feel this takes it to the next level. Here is his recommendations, best of both worlds IMO:

    # Take 200mg caffeine 1-2 hours before cardio

    # Do 10 minutes of intense cardio (can be HIIT, but doesn't have to be)

    # Rest 5 Minutes

    # Do 30-45 minutes of Steady State Cardio at moderate to moderately high intensity

    # Wait an hour before having a small protein meal

    # 2-3 hours later go back to normal eating

    Why This Works (in Lyle's words): "To get stubborn fat mobilized, you have to overcome a fairly severe resistance in terms of both blood flow and lipolysis, this requires very high concentrations of catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline). Sadly, jacking up levels of catecholamines (necessary for mobilization) limits burning in the muscle which is why you follow the high intensity with low intensity. Basically, you jack up levels to get the fat mobilized, and then let them fall so that the fatty acid can be burned in the muscle."
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    going Burn about 100 cals a mile if you walk it, run it, interval it.
    Only difference is how fast you burn it.
    I prefer steady state running for fat loss.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    Have you read about Lyle McDonalds method of cardio? I have been using this with great success. I have always been a fan of fasted steady state cardio, but I feel this takes it to the next level. Here is his recommendations, best of both worlds IMO:

    # Take 200mg caffeine 1-2 hours before cardio

    # Do 10 minutes of intense cardio (can be HIIT, but doesn't have to be)

    # Rest 5 Minutes

    # Do 30-45 minutes of Steady State Cardio at moderate to moderately high intensity

    # Wait an hour before having a small protein meal

    # 2-3 hours later go back to normal eating

    Why This Works (in Lyle's words): "To get stubborn fat mobilized, you have to overcome a fairly severe resistance in terms of both blood flow and lipolysis, this requires very high concentrations of catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline). Sadly, jacking up levels of catecholamines (necessary for mobilization) limits burning in the muscle which is why you follow the high intensity with low intensity. Basically, you jack up levels to get the fat mobilized, and then let them fall so that the fatty acid can be burned in the muscle."
    Sounds interesting mate ^^^ The rationale for the protocol seems sensible enough.

    I'll have to give it a shot sometime, can't be bad even for the sheer amount of cals you'd burn!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    Sounds interesting mate ^^^ The rationale for the protocol seems sensible enough.

    I'll have to give it a shot sometime, can't be bad even for the sheer amount of cals you'd burn!
    I do it 3 times a week. More than that combined with your normal weights and I think its begging for over training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Holliday View Post
    I do it 3 times a week. More than that combined with your normal weights and I think its begging for over training.
    Sounds nice Overtraining? I'm not listening...lalalala Bring on the pain!
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    Lyle's SFP that is being discussed here is best suited to "stubborn fat." At 24% BF, the OP's wife should be able to use a variety of dietary and cardio techniquies to achieve her goals.

    what should her target HR be and how long for fat loss?
    From this cross-sectional study:

    "Exercise intensity has been shown to be one of the most important factors in determining substrate utilization. We have demonstrated this to be the case in a wide range of healthy men and women such that, on increasing exercise intensity from low to moderate to high, absolute substrate oxidation can be seen to follow two patterns: CHO oxidation continues to increase, whereas fat oxidation follows an inverted hyperbola. We have shown that fat oxidation increases from ~35% VO2-max to a maximal rate at an intensity of 48 +/-1% VO2-max. Further increases in exercise intensity lead to a reduction in fat oxidation."

    "In our study, we confirmed that the crossover point occurred between 48 and 53% VO2-max, consistent with the 50% VO2-max suggested by Brooks and colleagues."

    Another study derived a reqression equation to get from % VO2-max to % Heart Rate. The equation is: %HR = 0.64 * % VO2-max + 37. Based on that equation optimal %HR for FAT oxidization is between ~59% and ~68% with the maximal rate identified in the study at the upper end.
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    Lyle's SFP that is being discussed here is best suited to "stubborn fat." At 24% BF, the OP's wife should be able to use a variety of dietary and cardio techniquies to achieve her goals.


    From this cross-sectional study:

    "Exercise intensity has been shown to be one of the most important factors in determining substrate utilization. We have demonstrated this to be the case in a wide range of healthy men and women such that, on increasing exercise intensity from low to moderate to high, absolute substrate oxidation can be seen to follow two patterns: CHO oxidation continues to increase, whereas fat oxidation follows an inverted hyperbola. We have shown that fat oxidation increases from ~35% VO2-max to a maximal rate at an intensity of 48 +/-1% VO2-max. Further increases in exercise intensity lead to a reduction in fat oxidation."

    "In our study, we confirmed that the crossover point occurred between 48 and 53% VO2-max, consistent with the 50% VO2-max suggested by Brooks and colleagues."

    Another study derived a reqression equation to get from % VO2-max to % Heart Rate. The equation is: %HR = 0.64 * % VO2-max + 37. Based on that equation optimal %HR for FAT oxidization is between ~59% and ~68% with the maximal rate identified in the study at the upper end.
    Correct. Given a constant time at a higher V02% will burn more total kcals; and, even though the percent fatty acid substrate utilized is lower, the total amount of kcals burn from fatty acids is higher than that of low intensity.
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    if she is just wanting fat loss then crdo crdo crdo with a proper diet will melt the fat off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by firedoghfd View Post
    So my wife was asking about cardio and fat loss. it the old thought of low HR still hold true. She is 26 yrs old 132lbs 5' 4" and 24% she is now hitting weights and wants to do cardio correctly. I believe her goal is 20% then set new goals


    what should her target HR be and how long for fat loss.
    Cardio doesn't burn fat unless the body is under the calorie deficient.

    Tell her to watch her nutrition more than look for a magical cardio workout; however, in the meantime google p90x.
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    sorry not buying a at home workout video. not when we have a great gym
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    I've gone from 250lbs to 180lbs in a little over 8 months, I was FFAAATTT. Being as I didn't check my BF% when I started I don't know for sure, but I'm guessing 30+% BF and am now 18% (still have a bit more to go but I'm on my way).

    All that being said, I'm a firm believer that diet plays a much bigger role in fat loss than working out. It all boils down to a simple equation (Cals in < Cals Out). Granted, working out helps create the deficit and by no means am I saying that diet alone is the answer. But, IMHO diet is the key.
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    Low intensity long duration primerily uses fat stores for energy, high intensity and relatively shorter duration use more CHO metabolism. The ideal setup would be high intensity for as long as possible just because the edpendature of K/cals is higher per given unit of time and ultimately its not where the stores come from but the actual K/cals burned or used during exercise. For example if a low intensity exercise burns 300 kcals but the higher intensity burns 600 the yield of expended calories is higher. Regaurdless of where its coming from (either CHO or Fats) it takes 3500 kcals to equal one pound of body fat, so the more calories you can expend the greater the result.

    Another benefit is that at a high intensity exercise the recovery time is also higher so the increased metabolism during the recovery time is at a higher rate than it would be at lower intesities, therefore more calories are burned in recovery than would have been burned in a low intensity recovery. So although it may not be a high number of calories expended during recovery the frequency of expending 50 kcals at rest multiple times (after each cardio session) begin to add up.

    Diet is also important the body needs to be in a calorie deficit to lose weight.

    Time of day has been studied (inconclusively) but some studies show that more fat it utilized in pre-breakfast early morning cardio exercises.
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    Exclamation High Intensity Cardio for Fat Loss


    Quote Originally Posted by firedoghfd View Post
    So my wife was asking about cardio and fat loss. it the old thought of low HR still hold true. She is 26 yrs old 132lbs 5' 4" and 24% she is now hitting weights and wants to do cardio correctly. I believe her goal is 20% then set new goals


    what should her target HR be and how long for fat loss.
    It doesn't matter what type of cardio she does (i.e. low intensity or high intensity), since if she burns fat during the session she will burn carbohydrates the rest of the day and vice versa.

    I personally believe (and am an avid doer) that shorter (i.e. 20 min) high-intensity or interval sessions are better. Long, slow cardio burns calories, yes, but you are doing that for a long period of time. The most effective way to burn fat through cardio is to do a) Interval training (i.e. efforts), or b) do your cardio at a HIGHER intensity (i.e. just going out and running as fast as you can over a certain distance, instead of 45 minutes at a 60% HRmax). Forget about the ‘Fat Burning Zone’; the harder you work during cardio, the more fat you lose. When I first attempted to lose fat (and I still do this NOW) I did something called ‘Guerrilla Cardio’ (GC). It is tabata intervals done sprinting (instead of on a bike). All you do jog lightly for 4 minutes as a ‘warm-up’; then you do 8 x 20 seconds hard-out-as-fast-as-you-can sprints/efforts, and jog easy for 10 seconds after each one; finishing with a 4 minutes easy jog ‘cool-down’. I do GC (or variations of it; now I increase how many efforts I do, and sometimes do up to 32) 3 days a week, with a rest day between each one, as it is very hard and takes a lot out of you. If you do this, and you are doing weights and eating to lose fat, then you will most definitely see results. If you feel that you NEED to do MORE cardio, you can do brisk walks every other day, or perhaps a run (but no MORE than 30 minutes; after 30 minutes of running you are very catabolic and are likely to lose muscle, which you don’t want to happen). Skipping, stair sprinting/running, or rowing, are the next highest calorie burners after sprinting. Some people will tell you that you need to be doing 2 hours of cardio a day, or double cardio sessions, to lose fat, but as long as you are eating RIGHT, doing weights 2-4 times per week, doing cardio 3 or more times per week for 12-30 minutes per day (depending on the intensity; the higher the intensity the shorter you do it for!), and allowing your body to RECOVER (this is VERY important; if you do TOO much, then your body won’t be able to recover properly and you won’t get the results you want, since your body only adapts and gets results in the RECOVERY time!), then you will lose fat!

    Layne Norton actually explained re high and low intensity cardio well:
    Quote Originally Posted by Layne Norton
    Research has shown that the type of substrate used during cardiovascular work makes little overall difference on fat loss. This is most likely due to the fact if one relies mostly upon fat stores during cardio (i.e. low intensity cardio), the body will burn predominantly glucose at other times of the day. Likewise, if one mainly utilizes glucose for energy during cardio (i.e. high intensity cardio) the body will customarily rely on fat at other times of the day in order to spare muscle glycogen.

    Training in and of itself causes the body to preferentially spare muscle glycogen and burn fat. It makes sense that one should strive to do their cardio on their 'off days' from lifting (as to not further hinder their recovery), and plan their carbohydrate intake similar to their lifting regime.

    ...

    Another question that often arises regarding cardio is the argument "Low-Intensity vs High-Intensity" cardio. Many people automatically assume that low-intensity cardio is better; citing that high-intensity cardio primarily utilizes glucose (anaerobic metabolism), while low-intensity cardio primarily burns fat (aerobic metabolism).

    Once again, the substrate used during cardiovascular work is not as important as the caloric deficit created by the cardiovascular work. In actuality, high-intensity cardiovascular work is superior to low-intensity cardio for several reasons

    High intensity cardio has a much stronger effect on GLUT-4 translocation in muscle cells due to the increased force of muscle contraction. This means that high-intensity cardio creates a much stronger nutrient partitioning effect towards muscle tissue than low-intensity cardio.

    Low periods of low-intensity exercise tend to "overtrain" the fast-twitch muscle fibers and convert the intermediate muscle fibers to slow-twitch fibers. This is not a desirable effect as the fast twitch muscle fibers are those that have the greatest chance to hypertrophy. If your body has less fast twitch fibers, then you will experience less hypertrophy from training.

    The body's hormonal response to high intensity cardio is similar to the body's hormonal response to resistance training (i.e. increased insulin sensitivity, gh release, Igf-1 release, etc) without placing the same strain on the nervous system as resistance training.

    High-intensity cardio causes the body to preferentially store more carbohydrates and burn more fat.

    High-intensity cardiovascular exercise increases oxygen expenditure and forces the body to adapt by becoming more efficient at oxygen transport (increase in VO2 max). More efficient oxygen transport to the muscles will increase fat oxidation as fat oxidation is dependant upon the presence of oxygen.

    High-intensity cardio seems to be more muscle sparing. Several studies have shown that high-intensity interval training (aka HIT) burns less calories when compared to continuous lower intensity cardio. However, the skinfold losses were greater with the HIT group than in the continuous intensity group. This means not only did the HIT group lose more fat, they also spared more muscle tissue by burning less overall calories .
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    So I have read through all of the posts and I want to get cut and shed the fat on my belly. I'm I better doing low intensity cardio or high intensity?
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    220BPM - AGE = MAX HR

    MAX HR x (% desired) = Target Heart Rate.

    Many schools of thought on target HR for fat loss. I recommend trying various rates to see how she responds.

    I suggest if she is just starting out to target at about 65-70% Max HR for starters for 20 to 30 mins. Maybe introduce intervals as well.

    My philosophy is that if you start out with something that does not overwhelm her she will be successful and therefor be motivated to continue.

    Of course after this post 20 guys will tell you HIIT is the only way.

    Good luck.
    this is one of the best explinations of cardio and HR i've seen in a while...props to you sir
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    dam guejsn u know ur ****
    by the way nice pict
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    dam guejsn u know ur ****
    by the way nice pict
    Cheers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Cheers.

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    does APPNUT have a fat burner thats good?
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    Thumbs up Applied Nutriceuticals Products for Fat Loss


    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    does APPNUT have a fat burner thats good?
    Lipotrophin-AM (stimulant) and Lipotrophin-PM (non stimulant) are our specific fat burners and are designed to be stacked together for a double attack.

    However, the RPM/Drive stack works rather well if fat loss is the goal.

    The other product/stack that I would recommend for fat loss is IGF-2 (and this is my personal favourite) and NeoVar Recomped. Not only can one lose fat, but it allows you to gain muscle as well.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Lipotrophin-AM (stimulant) and Lipotrophin-PM (non stimulant) are our specific fat burners and are designed to be stacked together for a double attack.

    However, the RPM/Drive stack works rather well if fat loss is the goal.

    The other product/stack that I would recommend for fat loss is IGF-2 (and this is my personal favourite) and NeoVar Recomped. Not only can one lose fat, but it allows you to gain muscle as well.


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    ohh the igf-2 and neovar caught my eye im going to look into that because i dont want too loose to much just a little fat and gain muscle
    thnx gue
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    ohh the igf-2 and neovar caught my eye im going to look into that because i dont want too loose to much just a little fat and gain muscle
    thnx gue
    Yes, the IGF-2/NeoVar Recomped stack is a perfect RECOMP stack. It works well for me (and I eat a LOT, which says something; especially as it keeps me relatively lean) and is pretty much the only stack that I almost NEVER stop using!

    I would personally use a GH booster (or a combination GH/testosterone booster) over a fat burner any time when wanting to lose fat, since it creates the right anabolic environment in your body to add more muscle and therefore lose fat more effectively and efficiently (especially to keep it off in the long-term).

    No worries


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    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    Yes, the IGF-2/NeoVar Recomped stack is a perfect RECOMP stack. It works well for me (and I eat a LOT, which says something; especially as it keeps me relatively lean) and is pretty much the only stack that I almost NEVER stop using!

    I would personally use a GH booster (or a combination GH/testosterone booster) over a fat burner any time when wanting to lose fat, since it creates the right anabolic environment in your body to add more muscle and therefore lose fat more effectively and efficiently (especially to keep it off in the long-term).

    No worries


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    cool thnx
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    ohh the igf-2 and neovar caught my eye im going to look into that because i dont want too loose to much just a little fat and gain muscle
    thnx gue
    IGF-2 is an excellent product as I can easily testify from my log and review, I gained strength and lost fat whilst cutting:CLICK HERE

    ...and the combo Rosie's suggested would be very effective for nutrient partitioning, strength maintenance/gains, recovery and...fat loss (if you're diet is in order of course )
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    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    cool thnx
    No worries


    Quote Originally Posted by UKStrength View Post
    IGF-2 is an excellent product as I can easily testify from my log and review, I gained strength and lost fat whilst cutting:CLICK HERE

    ...and the combo Rosie's suggested would be very effective for nutrient partitioning, strength maintenance/gains, recovery and...fat loss (if you're diet is in order of course )
    I would disagree. Diet needs to be reasonable (and targeted towards your goals), but it's not the be all or end all (and I know from personal experience, since I got great results eating 4000+ cal/day), so long as your training makes up for it (not that I would recommend this option to people).

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    has anyone tried the lipotrophin AM & PM???
    i want to give it a go
    im lookin for reviews but i cant find any
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    Applied Nutriceuticals Lipotrophin-AM and Lipotrophin-PM


    Quote Originally Posted by rochabp View Post
    has anyone tried the lipotrophin AM & PM???
    i want to give it a go
    im lookin for reviews but i cant find any
    I have used BOTH. I no longer use Lipotrophin-AM, as I find stacking the big four gives me the results I need. I use Lipotrophin-PM for the sleep benefits (not fat loss) and it is a staple for me.

    There is a feedback thread for Lipotrophin-PM in the Applied Nutriceuticals subforum: Lipo-PM appreciation thread.

    There have been several logs done on Lipotrophin-AM (i.e. Applied Neutriceuticals Lipo AM/Lipotrophin-PM (i.e. Applied Nutriceuticals Lipotrophin - PM Log)on bb.com as well; you just need to look for them.


    ~Rosie
    Team APPNUT
    Contact Me for INDIVIDUALIZED TRAINING AND NUTRITION

    "Think like a Champion. Train like a Warrior. Live with a Purpose." - Rosie Chee
  31. UKStrength
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    UKStrength's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by Guejsn View Post
    ...so long as your training makes up for it (not that I would recommend this option to people).
    Almost certainly Rosie, you're the exception, not the rule when it comes to training volume! I agree, diet doesn't have to be 100% PERFECT but as you say, tailoring towards your goals will make the fat loss process easier.
  

  
 

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