So I've been noticing good progress overall, however my shoulders seem to be progressing the least. I generally hit them up on Wed. along with my legs. I'm thinking of throwing them in on Sat. as well. Any negative effects on that? I usually do HIIT on Sat, with a rest Sun, but I'll move the HIIT over to Sunday.

When you train the chest you're automatically going to recruit muscles from the shoulders. So if you were to add another day of shoulder training, you're essentially going to be asking the shoulders to do more than they're capable of. You might get away with it for a week or two, but after that you'd notice that three shoulder days a week isn't the best bet.

Your best bet would be to rethink how you're training the shoulders. Can you write out your training split? Specifically, your shoulder routine. Also, if you would, post your training goals. I wanna see why you're stacking shoulders with legs. I can't imagine not doing legs by themselves.

I think a good way to train the shoulders is to mix it up. On any given shoulder day I might be doing reps from all the way down to 4, all the way up to 10-12, depending on the exercise. To me, good shoulders mean strong shoulders, but also, defined shoulders. But we can talk more about the actual training once you list your regimen.

Alright, he's my routine:

Monday:
Tris/Chest

Smith Bench 3-4x6-10
Skull Cruser(flat one week, incline one week, decline one week) 3x8-10
Incline DB bench - 3-4x8-10
DB Pull-Over(or BB) 3x8-10
Flys 3x8-10
Overhead Extentions 3x8-10


Wednesday:
Shoulders/Legs
*legs vary too much so I'm not going to be posting them
Smith machine press 3-4x6-10
Seated or Standing Military Press 3-4x8-10
Arnold Press 3x8-10
Single arm lateral raise w/ sinlge arm front raise 3x7

Friday:
Bis/Back

Pull-ups whatver I can do
BB curl 3x8-10
Pulldowns 3x10
Preacher Curls(DB) 3x8-10
Bent-over rows 3x8-10
EZ-Bar burls(close grip) 3x8-10



At one point it was bis/shoulder and legs/back, but a switched it around for no apparent reason. My goals are basiclly size.

I train shoulders alone on wednesday and sundays and have seen tremendous improvement since I started doing this about 7-8 months ago.

My suggestion is to alter what you do dependant upon the day. For example, I work predominantly bb exercises on Sunday and db exercises on Wednesday. Also, dont forget to hit rear delts as well. Just keep things varying as often as possible.

First of all, I would just train your shoulders with your chest, and maybe keep the specific triceps training to one exercise. Trust me, if you're doing heavy presses, you will get feedback from your triceps. Adding in just a little bit of isolation won't hurt anything, but too much can cause overtraining. It's easy to overtrain the triceps when you're pounding the presses, so sometimes less and more.

Legs are roughly half your physique and they demand more than other muscle groups. These muscles are capable of the most strength and most endurance. They need their own day. I do think it's okay to throw in something like abs or forearms with legs.

As far as your actual shoulder training, give this a try:
Standing Shoulder Press 3-4 x 8-10 (After warmups)
** Towards the end I sometimes I do push presses. Using just enough momentum from my legs to press the weight. This "cheating" allows you to keep working the shoulders past their normal point of fatigue.
a.) Dumbbell Presses 3 x 8-10
b.) Seated or Standing Side DB Raises 3 x 8-10 (strict)
** This is done as a superset.
Upright Rows 3 x 8, 6, 4

Also, mix it up as far as rep ranges. Some days you should have an exercise where you go really heavy and use maximum power. For most exercises it's best to keep reps under 10. Figure out which rep ranges work best for certain exercises. Be strict with your movements, warm up properly, stretch a LOT after your workout.

I think if you want big and quality, you have to work heavy, but you also have to give the muscles quality, full range of motion, isolation work (straight arm raises).

This is my opinion anyway. Good luck

If you're gonna try it I'd keep the second workout light and at least 2-3 days after you trained shoulders heavy.

Personally I lean towards josh's ideas. I prefer training shoulders w/ chest and triceps. When I've trained them w/ other body parts in the past or by themselves I never made the same progression.

once a week max. don't over-train.

Shoulders are "fickle" muscles for lack of a better term.DON'T over do it.You get a shoulder injury,an you can forget training for a WHILE!

I wouldn't directly hit shoulders 2x per week while still benching. That's a lot of shoulder work. IMO increase your volume on your shoulder day. Also I think the smith robs you of shoulder strength... just my opinion.

Here is how i do my shoulders, and this was mainly for strength but it seems to be making them bigger.

Monday after i bench i do 2 rear delt exercises for a total of 6 sets. Free weights only.

Friday i do either standing strict presses or seated behind the neck for a few sets followed by 2x20 side raises.

The rear delts allow me to hammer them, and the other stuff is low volume but enough work. This works for me, may not for you.