[pjorstad]

This is based on your own experimentation with different rep ranges and rest periods on the basic compound excercises. Strength is not a part of this poll we are asking what gave you MAXIMUM muscle gains, even at the cost of lessening the amount of strength gains.

[CROWLER]

Are you taking into account the speed of the positive motion and negative?

Personally MOST of my workouts don't fit in your poll.

[jweave23]

I picked 12-8 reps, 2-3 min rests, more then 1 set

For years I did 6-8 reps, 2-3 min rests, 3 sets. This works for me, but recently I think I'm getting a better workout with 8-12 reps, 3 sets. I think 60-90 seconds is too short of a rest time unless you are doing GVT or a specific progam tailored for that.

[pjorstad]

We already know for sure that slower negatives means more muscle growth. However there seems to be some that imply that higher reps work for some people and lower reps for others. Im not really sure about the rest periods either.

Am i wrong to assume that slower negatives always means more growth for everyone?

[pjorstad]

I don't know ive been doing the 3 minute rest thing for a while with low to very very low reps(pyramid scheme from about 8 to 1 rep range) and im just not pleased at all. I think im gonna switch to 8-12 pyramid scheme for 60-90 second rests, except on SQUATS and stiff leg deadlifts(2 minutes).

[pjorstad]

Well someone pmed me and showed me a link to a board where people were showing evidence and reasoning that in fact doing slower negatives in fact has no advantage.


I know from personal experience i never ntoiced adifference except aggravation from having to do it so slow

[pogue]

I would also like to know if the following muscle gains were on or off androgens.

[wardog]

One add on I have found helping my gains is the use of static holds. After your last set, just hold the weight at about the halfway position as long as you can. It hurts, and give a very deep soreness. I try to shoot for 30 seconds to a minute with each static hold.

[pjorstad]

THanks for the tip wardog. Ill try that. It sounds like it could stimulate more muscle by drawing blood, etc.



Well i got done with my first high rep low rest workout with heavy weights. I must say that my observation is that with only a 60-90 second rest if i use a weight that i can only handle for about 12 reps the next set i can only do about 7 reps.

I think im gonna start at 15 reps so i can do another set with the same weight and then it will go to 12 and then by the 3rd set i can increase and maybe it will only go down to 10 and then keeping that weight the same ABOUT 8 for the next set.

Anyone else notice something of that degree where you have to start higher reps in order to hit 12,10, 8 approximately for 3 sets???

I know on wrist curls and shrugs when i did 15 reps the next set with the same weight was 12 reps and with shrugs the 3rd set was also 12 reps so its only from the first to 2nd set i notice a major drop in reps if i don't start high enough( like 15 reps or something).

[Biggs]

Originally posted by pjorstad


Anyone else notice something of that degree where you have to start higher reps in order to hit 12,10, 8 approximately for 3 sets???

Nah. I always make sure I reach failure between 8-10, and will never go over 12. Instead of adding sets of 15 personally, I would tinker with rest times etc so you don't have to add on pussy sets. I usually never rest more than two minutes and my reps are never sacrificed at the level you're talking about so it sounds a little strange to me. But hey, everyone's different, just a suggestion. For me, anything exceeding 10 or so reps doesn't feel good, and doesn't do **** for my muscles but you may consider, rather than adding a high rep set at the beginning, to just keep the intensity up and go for another 8 reps at the end: 12-10-8-6to8.

[jweave23]

PJ, I don't go over 12 reps for any exercise. Now I've recently started so that when I get to all sets of 12 , then I increase weight down to 6 or 8 and work back up again, and repeat. I don't think you will get additional benefit from anything over 12 reps at all, except maybe 20 rep squats.

[pjorstad]

Ok, screw it im gonna do a set for 12 reps and take 1 minute rests for 4 sets. I get low reps then oh well. In the past ive done really low reps with medium reps but the rests were 3 minutes so it was hard on the joints becaue i maintained my strength and often i increased in strength and hence i had to add weights as the reps went lower.


Just curious to know but you guys that do 1 1/2 minute rets or lower do you use the same weight??? There is no way i could use a higher weight without going extremeley low(less then 4-5) if im resting only 1 to 1 1/2 and starting at 12 reps.

[msclbldrguy]

overall, i got better growth from 12-8, 60-90 sec rest more than one set, but get better growth in da quads from 20 rep squats.

[pjorstad]

Man my muscles are not used to this quick rest speed. i had to bump it up to 2 minutes(normally im used to 3 minutes) on compounds and 1 minute on isolations(normally 3 minutes here too).

Also im starting in the 12-15 rep range or try to anyways because my reps drop fast so i need to start high. 4 sets is about what im aiming for.


For example last workout i did bench and did 10 reps( i didn't want to decrease weight so i could do more reps) then 2 minute rest then 4 reps then 3 reps then 3 reps so as you can see i need to start much higher for some excercises(over 12 on first set).



One thing i have read on is that you should switch it up. Meaning train for hypertrophy only like above and then switch it to longer rests, low volume low reps. 8-1 reps, 3+ minute rets, and slightly lower volume would be a good change up from a 1-2 minute rest, 15-6 reps, slightly higher volume hypertrophy routine.

[msclbldrguy]

Originally posted by pjorstad
Man my muscles are not used to this quick rest speed. i had to bump it up to 2 minutes(normally im used to 3 minutes) on compounds and 1 minute on isolations(normally 3 minutes here too).

Also im starting in the 12-15 rep range or try to anyways because my reps drop fast so i need to start high. 4 sets is about what im aiming for.


For example last workout i did bench and did 10 reps( i didn't want to decrease weight so i could do more reps) then 2 minute rest then 4 reps then 3 reps then 3 reps so as you can see i need to start much higher for some excercises(over 12 on first set).



One thing i have read on is that you should switch it up. Meaning train for hypertrophy only like above and then switch it to longer rests, low volume low reps. 8-1 reps, 3+ minute rets, and slightly lower volume would be a good change up from a 1-2 minute rest, 15-6 reps, slightly higher volume hypertrophy routine.

yeah its tough when you take a brief rest between sets...but its one method to help shock muscles into growth....and keepin variety in your w/o is also important....good luck...

[locoangmo]

Well,
Everybody seems to have their own training version of what gives the best gains. I marked the 4-8 reps with 2-3 min. rest because this gave me the best strength gains (not suppose to be a factor in my vote but thats how I measure success) and I also saw my body grow considerably when I added a bulking diet.
I have tried several different styles in my short 6 year "experiment" and have discovered that a few simple things work best for me.
KISS principle- Keep it simple...Pyramids, drop sets, pre-exhaustion, super-slow negetives etc. all have a time and place but are not necessary for most of us. Plateus can usually be overcome without all the tricks. Alot of them can lead to over-training and injury. Lift the weight yourself, your spotter should be helping on only the last rep or maybe two. Keep you workouts to an hour max.
GAS- Gradual Adaptive Stress...This is an easy one to incorporate. Add some weight to your lift every week till you only get out a couple of reps with good form. Then the next week drop your weight back to the 8-9 rep max and start over -or- change your exercizes for that body group.
Consistancy and rest- Incorporate your gym time into your lifestyle. Get plenty of sleep, eat good, develop strong relationships.
Loco

[pjorstad]

Originally posted by locoangmo
Well,
Everybody seems to have their own training version of what gives the best gains. I marked the 4-8 reps with 2-3 min. rest because this gave me the best strength gains (not suppose to be a factor in my vote but thats how I measure success) and I also saw my body grow considerably when I added a bulking diet.
I have tried several different styles in my short 6 year "experiment" and have discovered that a few simple things work best for me.
KISS principle- Keep it simple...Pyramids, drop sets, pre-exhaustion, super-slow negetives etc. all have a time and place but are not necessary for most of us. Plateus can usually be overcome without all the tricks. Alot of them can lead to over-training and injury. Lift the weight yourself, your spotter should be helping on only the last rep or maybe two. Keep you workouts to an hour max.
GAS- Gradual Adaptive Stress...This is an easy one to incorporate. Add some weight to your lift every week till you only get out a couple of reps with good form. Then the next week drop your weight back to the 8-9 rep max and start over -or- change your exercizes for that body group.
Consistancy and rest- Incorporate your gym time into your lifestyle. Get plenty of sleep, eat good, develop strong relationships.
Loco

Excellent posts. Ive been doing pyramid scheme in the past and i feel thats more of an advanced technique. Also drop sets and super slow negatives also i feel are unneccessary.

I believe the best way to change a plateau is either, change your routine more for strength and power(changing reps, volume, rest time), for a while before going back to more of a hypertrophy routine, taking a break is another way, changing the excercises also often helps hit the muscles in different ways.

locoangomo, Just out of curiosity have you ever used drop sets, pyramid schemes, etc and actually noticed a advantage over changing some other parameters, eg. like during a really tough plateau???