Poll: What gave you the most muscle gains from compound excercises(strength NOT a factor)?

What gave you the most PURE hypertrophy from experience?

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    What gave you the most PURE hypertrophy from experience?


    This is based on your own experimentation with different rep ranges and rest periods on the basic compound excercises. Strength is not a part of this poll we are asking what gave you MAXIMUM muscle gains, even at the cost of lessening the amount of strength gains.

    Last edited by pjorstad; 01-06-2003 at 05:51 PM.

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    Are you taking into account the speed of the positive motion and negative?

    Personally MOST of my workouts don't fit in your poll.
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    I picked 12-8 reps, 2-3 min rests, more then 1 set

    For years I did 6-8 reps, 2-3 min rests, 3 sets. This works for me, but recently I think I'm getting a better workout with 8-12 reps, 3 sets. I think 60-90 seconds is too short of a rest time unless you are doing GVT or a specific progam tailored for that.
    Last edited by jweave23; 01-07-2003 at 12:16 AM.
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    We already know for sure that slower negatives means more muscle growth. However there seems to be some that imply that higher reps work for some people and lower reps for others. Im not really sure about the rest periods either.

    Am i wrong to assume that slower negatives always means more growth for everyone?
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    I don't know ive been doing the 3 minute rest thing for a while with low to very very low reps(pyramid scheme from about 8 to 1 rep range) and im just not pleased at all. I think im gonna switch to 8-12 pyramid scheme for 60-90 second rests, except on SQUATS and stiff leg deadlifts(2 minutes).
    Last edited by pjorstad; 01-06-2003 at 09:54 PM.
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    Well someone pmed me and showed me a link to a board where people were showing evidence and reasoning that in fact doing slower negatives in fact has no advantage.


    I know from personal experience i never ntoiced adifference except aggravation from having to do it so slow
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    I would also like to know if the following muscle gains were on or off androgens.
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    One add on I have found helping my gains is the use of static holds. After your last set, just hold the weight at about the halfway position as long as you can. It hurts, and give a very deep soreness. I try to shoot for 30 seconds to a minute with each static hold.
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    THanks for the tip wardog. Ill try that. It sounds like it could stimulate more muscle by drawing blood, etc.



    Well i got done with my first high rep low rest workout with heavy weights. I must say that my observation is that with only a 60-90 second rest if i use a weight that i can only handle for about 12 reps the next set i can only do about 7 reps.

    I think im gonna start at 15 reps so i can do another set with the same weight and then it will go to 12 and then by the 3rd set i can increase and maybe it will only go down to 10 and then keeping that weight the same ABOUT 8 for the next set.

    Anyone else notice something of that degree where you have to start higher reps in order to hit 12,10, 8 approximately for 3 sets???

    I know on wrist curls and shrugs when i did 15 reps the next set with the same weight was 12 reps and with shrugs the 3rd set was also 12 reps so its only from the first to 2nd set i notice a major drop in reps if i don't start high enough( like 15 reps or something).
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    Originally posted by pjorstad


    Anyone else notice something of that degree where you have to start higher reps in order to hit 12,10, 8 approximately for 3 sets???

    Nah. I always make sure I reach failure between 8-10, and will never go over 12. Instead of adding sets of 15 personally, I would tinker with rest times etc so you don't have to add on ***** sets. I usually never rest more than two minutes and my reps are never sacrificed at the level you're talking about so it sounds a little strange to me. But hey, everyone's different, just a suggestion. For me, anything exceeding 10 or so reps doesn't feel good, and doesn't do **** for my muscles but you may consider, rather than adding a high rep set at the beginning, to just keep the intensity up and go for another 8 reps at the end: 12-10-8-6to8.
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    PJ, I don't go over 12 reps for any exercise. Now I've recently started so that when I get to all sets of 12 , then I increase weight down to 6 or 8 and work back up again, and repeat. I don't think you will get additional benefit from anything over 12 reps at all, except maybe 20 rep squats.
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    Ok, screw it im gonna do a set for 12 reps and take 1 minute rests for 4 sets. I get low reps then oh well. In the past ive done really low reps with medium reps but the rests were 3 minutes so it was hard on the joints becaue i maintained my strength and often i increased in strength and hence i had to add weights as the reps went lower.


    Just curious to know but you guys that do 1 1/2 minute rets or lower do you use the same weight??? There is no way i could use a higher weight without going extremeley low(less then 4-5) if im resting only 1 to 1 1/2 and starting at 12 reps.
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    overall, i got better growth from 12-8, 60-90 sec rest more than one set, but get better growth in da quads from 20 rep squats.
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    Man my muscles are not used to this quick rest speed. i had to bump it up to 2 minutes(normally im used to 3 minutes) on compounds and 1 minute on isolations(normally 3 minutes here too).

    Also im starting in the 12-15 rep range or try to anyways because my reps drop fast so i need to start high. 4 sets is about what im aiming for.


    For example last workout i did bench and did 10 reps( i didn't want to decrease weight so i could do more reps) then 2 minute rest then 4 reps then 3 reps then 3 reps so as you can see i need to start much higher for some excercises(over 12 on first set).



    One thing i have read on is that you should switch it up. Meaning train for hypertrophy only like above and then switch it to longer rests, low volume low reps. 8-1 reps, 3+ minute rets, and slightly lower volume would be a good change up from a 1-2 minute rest, 15-6 reps, slightly higher volume hypertrophy routine.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Man my muscles are not used to this quick rest speed. i had to bump it up to 2 minutes(normally im used to 3 minutes) on compounds and 1 minute on isolations(normally 3 minutes here too).

    Also im starting in the 12-15 rep range or try to anyways because my reps drop fast so i need to start high. 4 sets is about what im aiming for.


    For example last workout i did bench and did 10 reps( i didn't want to decrease weight so i could do more reps) then 2 minute rest then 4 reps then 3 reps then 3 reps so as you can see i need to start much higher for some excercises(over 12 on first set).



    One thing i have read on is that you should switch it up. Meaning train for hypertrophy only like above and then switch it to longer rests, low volume low reps. 8-1 reps, 3+ minute rets, and slightly lower volume would be a good change up from a 1-2 minute rest, 15-6 reps, slightly higher volume hypertrophy routine.
    yeah its tough when you take a brief rest between sets...but its one method to help shock muscles into growth....and keepin variety in your w/o is also important....good luck...
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    Most gains


    Well,
    Everybody seems to have their own training version of what gives the best gains. I marked the 4-8 reps with 2-3 min. rest because this gave me the best strength gains (not suppose to be a factor in my vote but thats how I measure success) and I also saw my body grow considerably when I added a bulking diet.
    I have tried several different styles in my short 6 year "experiment" and have discovered that a few simple things work best for me.
    KISS principle- Keep it simple...Pyramids, drop sets, pre-exhaustion, super-slow negetives etc. all have a time and place but are not necessary for most of us. Plateus can usually be overcome without all the tricks. Alot of them can lead to over-training and injury. Lift the weight yourself, your spotter should be helping on only the last rep or maybe two. Keep you workouts to an hour max.
    GAS- Gradual Adaptive Stress...This is an easy one to incorporate. Add some weight to your lift every week till you only get out a couple of reps with good form. Then the next week drop your weight back to the 8-9 rep max and start over -or- change your exercizes for that body group.
    Consistancy and rest- Incorporate your gym time into your lifestyle. Get plenty of sleep, eat good, develop strong relationships.
    Loco
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    Re: Most gains


    Originally posted by locoangmo
    Well,
    Everybody seems to have their own training version of what gives the best gains. I marked the 4-8 reps with 2-3 min. rest because this gave me the best strength gains (not suppose to be a factor in my vote but thats how I measure success) and I also saw my body grow considerably when I added a bulking diet.
    I have tried several different styles in my short 6 year "experiment" and have discovered that a few simple things work best for me.
    KISS principle- Keep it simple...Pyramids, drop sets, pre-exhaustion, super-slow negetives etc. all have a time and place but are not necessary for most of us. Plateus can usually be overcome without all the tricks. Alot of them can lead to over-training and injury. Lift the weight yourself, your spotter should be helping on only the last rep or maybe two. Keep you workouts to an hour max.
    GAS- Gradual Adaptive Stress...This is an easy one to incorporate. Add some weight to your lift every week till you only get out a couple of reps with good form. Then the next week drop your weight back to the 8-9 rep max and start over -or- change your exercizes for that body group.
    Consistancy and rest- Incorporate your gym time into your lifestyle. Get plenty of sleep, eat good, develop strong relationships.
    Loco

    Excellent posts. Ive been doing pyramid scheme in the past and i feel thats more of an advanced technique. Also drop sets and super slow negatives also i feel are unneccessary.

    I believe the best way to change a plateau is either, change your routine more for strength and power(changing reps, volume, rest time), for a while before going back to more of a hypertrophy routine, taking a break is another way, changing the excercises also often helps hit the muscles in different ways.

    locoangomo, Just out of curiosity have you ever used drop sets, pyramid schemes, etc and actually noticed a advantage over changing some other parameters, eg. like during a really tough plateau???
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    locoangomo, Just out of curiosity have you ever used drop sets, pyramid schemes, etc and actually noticed a advantage over changing some other parameters, eg. like during a really tough plateau???

    I have never had any luck making gains with drop sets but I still do them from time to time to eliminate bordom. I also use pre-exhaustion techniques for mostly the same reason. I like to go heavy often and this takes its toll on my joints (I am 37) so when I am sore I go with a pre-exhaustion-compound-drop set super set just to satisfy my endorphine needs and since I use lighter weights it seems easier on my joints. This is especially true while I diet down, I just don't recover as quickly from the heavy work.
    I have never used a pyramid workout. Makes no sense to me if your goal is to get stronger. Why go to failure on a lighter weight just to move up to a heavier weight. I feel you could get stronger by warming up good with ascending weight and then go for your goal weight and reps for your first work set. Then add 5 lbs the next week to your first work set and so on. I might add that ascending pyramid workouts are very popular here in SG and body builders win gold medals with them, so I might try sometime if nothing else worked. I have had really good luck with strength gains just by adding 5lbs to my core exercises everyweek and then when I top out I drop the weights and work up again. I keep my assistance exercises varied. Size wise, I get big when I eat big. Damn, I wrote a novel...Loco
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    locoangomo, Just out of curiosity have you ever used drop sets, pyramid schemes, etc and actually noticed a advantage over changing some other parameters, eg. like during a really tough plateau???

    I have never had any luck making gains with drop sets but I still do them from time to time to eliminate bordom. I also use pre-exhaustion techniques for mostly the same reason. I like to go heavy often and this takes its toll on my joints (I am 37) so when I am sore I go with a pre-exhaustion-compound-drop set super set just to satisfy my endorphine needs and since I use lighter weights it seems easier on my joints. This is especially true while I diet down, I just don't recover as quickly from the heavy work.
    I have never used a pyramid workout. Makes no sense to me if your goal is to get stronger. Why go to failure on a lighter weight just to move up to a heavier weight. I feel you could get stronger by warming up good with ascending weight and then go for your goal weight and reps for your first work set. Then add 5 lbs the next week to your first work set and so on. I might add that ascending pyramid workouts are very popular here in SG and body builders win gold medals with them, so I might try sometime if nothing else worked. I have had really good luck with strength gains just by adding 5lbs to my core exercises everyweek and then when I top out I drop the weights and work up again. I keep my assistance exercises varied. Size wise, I get big when I eat big. Damn, I wrote a novel...Loco
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    So when your strength is stalling sometimes youll drop the weight so you can do more reps the next week???


    Ive been stuck at the same number of reps (ive been trying to get my reps higher to goal orient towards hypertrophy) but they didn't budge so i dropped the weight quite a bit and did more reps and felt like my form and muscles were worked better at a lesser weight I have heard that sometimes you have to lower your weight in order to increase it in the future. Well see but regardless my muscles felt more worked because i was able to concentrate on form better i believe and the time under tension was longer too.
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    That is basically it. Let's say I start my flat bench at 290, I am getting 8 reps my first work set. I stick with 290 for three, working till failure. The following week will be 295 for three sets working each till failure. The week after 300, then 305 and so on until I can only do a couple of good reps or I start getting sloppy on form.
    The following week I can either change my first compound chest exercise or drop my weight back down to my 8 rep max which hopefully would be at 300 now. Then I work my way up in weight 5lbs a week.
    Loco
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    oh i see. That would be good doing a strength routine but during the hypertrophy routine you want to keep reps high so not every set every week will be increased, you might be able to increase reps slightly a week but probably not 5 lbs every week unless you want your reps to start going down and out of the best hypertrophy routine rep range. Basically you can afford to add weights every week with strength routine becauseifthe reps go down itsnot abig dealbut with hypertrophy strength increases areless andyou need reps high Its still a good idea though for when your stalling for a while on the hypertrophy besides when going mostly for strength . I have to keep thatin the back of my repetoire fornow on
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    two dropsets have been helping me on my biceps a lot... i plateaued with my bicep curls; and changed the routine a bit and they are growing again (albeit slowly since i'm off my cycle, but progress is progress)...

    and i aim for the 8-10 rep count on 4 sets on big compound exercises with 2min rests
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    "and i aim for the 8-10 rep count on 4 sets on big compound exercises with 2min rests"



    Too many sets for a excercise according to research. Research says you only need 1 to 3 sets with reps between 12-8. If your a hardgainer you only need 1 to 2 IMO. Ive started now to do a routine where my first set of the major compounds is 15-13 reps just to get blood flowing and to stimulate endurance fibers and then 2 more sets in the 12 through 8-6 range.

    Im keeping workout approximately 45 minutes or less because ive heard that coritisol is stronlgy released after 45 minutes so since im a hardgainer im gonna play on the good side
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    sorry dude; but this is working for me... after 4 sets i'm spent... 2 sets wouldn't even make me blink... i'd be done with my workout in 20 minutes if i did 2 sets...

    you can quote the research all you want; but this works for me
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    bean how do you know it doesn't work??? YOur too busy doing multiple mid range rep sets. I didn't say do your workout in 20 minutes YOU ADD EXCERCISES DUDE! Thats the point. You move on you don't stick around and fatigue yourself pointelessly on one excercise. Your muscles get the point real soon and thats why you move on. You should aim for at least 5 excercises on a upper body day, i have been doing that lately and in my last workout i was out in 40 minutes Of course i did that one extra short because ive been slightly overtraining lately but my future workouts are still gonna be no more then 50 minutes.
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    Too many sets for a excercise according to research. Research says you only need 1 to 3 sets with reps between 12-8. If your a hardgainer you only need 1 to 2 IMO.
    OH MAN!....I've been doing it wrong for the past 1.5 years then....oops

     

    I guess that 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps per exercise and 3-4 exercises per bodypart (as outlined in the Arnold Schwarzenegger Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding) is too many right?

     

    Research can show whatever it wants to, what actually matters is how it works for me, or you, or anybody for that matter.

     

    LG.  
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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Lifeguard


    I guess that 4-5 sets of 6-10 reps per exercise and 3-4 exercises per bodypart
    [/QUOTE

    ya LG. im with you on this. a hardgainer doing 1-2 reps per exercise? you better be lifting some heavy heavy crazy weights til failure and beyond and doing a great deal of exercises to reach an a range of hypertrophy man. You can read up on all the research you want, however you ask everyone on this forum which set range is better, most will go with closer to 4 sets, not the 1. Sage
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    Originally posted by pjorstad
    bean how do you know it doesn't work??? YOur too busy doing multiple mid range rep sets. I didn't say do your workout in 20 minutes YOU ADD EXCERCISES DUDE! Thats the point. You move on you don't stick around and fatigue yourself pointelessly on one excercise. Your muscles get the point real soon and thats why you move on. You should aim for at least 5 excercises on a upper body day, i have been doing that lately and in my last workout i was out in 40 minutes Of course i did that one extra short because ive been slightly overtraining lately but my future workouts are still gonna be no more then 50 minutes.
    5 exercises when i'm off androgens per day per bodypart? if i did 5 exercises of different bodyparts i'd only need to work out twice a week

    dude thats crazy...

    multiple mid range rep sets? HELL YES i did because i was going for strength... and i did pretty damn good with 2 reps of 180lbs up from 1 rep of 155...

    you think muscles get fatigued differently when you just do different exercises per bodypart? they still get fatigued either way

    name another compound exercise that hits the same muscles as the bench press does... you can't... and you're telling me to do 2 sets? please... thats nowhere near enough.... quote all the research you want; thats not enough training...

    i hit 4 exercises on chest day
    flat press 4 sets 8-10 reps
    incline press 3 sets 8-10 reps
    skullcrushers 3 sets 8-10 reps
    crunches 4 sets 8-10 reps

    this is perfectly fine for me... it hits my compound exercise and then does some assistance work... i'm still making gains with it even off androgens for only 3 weeks

    and i still think you need to do some leg work... if you did 2 sets of squats like you've been saying you might be able to maintain... that still wouldn't even phase me... i've been thinking of upping my 4 sets of squats to 5 sets

    i'd also like to know where you came up with the ****ed up idea of 1-2 sets for hardgainers?
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    Originally posted by Bean



    i'd also like to know where you came up with the ****ed up idea of 1-2 sets for hardgainers?
    lol... good question though, sounds odd I must say. Also in response to advanced techniques (read: mostly bull**** initially spouted by Weider mags to have something to write about in an attempt to make picking up a lead block sound much more complicated than... picking up a lead block), the only idea I ever really utilize, and have had great success with, is the drop sets approach.
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    i hit 4 exercises on chest day
    flat press 4 sets 8-10 reps
    incline press 3 sets 8-10 reps
    skullcrushers 3 sets 8-10 reps
    crunches 4 sets 8-10 reps


    Actually that routine is very similiar to what i advocate HOWEVER i would add in
    more excercises and reduce set numbers for the above to 2 and 3 and arrange it in such a way that im out ofthe gym in 40-50 minutes.
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    Originally posted by wardog
    One add on I have found helping my gains is the use of static holds. After your last set, just hold the weight at about the halfway position as long as you can. It hurts, and give a very deep soreness. I try to shoot for 30 seconds to a minute with each static hold.
    Ive alternated these allong with fascia streching, on different workouts. and my workouts are pretty brutal.  im about to switch back to my 225 workout which is just up to 225 for every execrsise applicable like bench, squat, shoulder press, dead lift, shrugs, leg press.  reps till failure 4-5 sets. last bench was 35, 20, 15, 8.  that was the hardest 8 reps ive ever done in my life.  works for me though.
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    Brought back an old ass post :-\
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    Originally posted by Havok
    Brought back an old ass post :-\
    what??
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    lol nothing
    It's not that old
    But this thread was from January begining of February
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    locoangmo, funny icon lol, is that you?
  37. New Member
    Flavor's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Bean

    name another compound exercise that hits the same muscles as the bench press does... you can't... and you're telling me to do 2 sets? please... thats nowhere near enough.... quote all the research you want; thats not enough training...

    i hit 4 exercises on chest day
    flat press 4 sets 8-10 reps
    incline press 3 sets 8-10 reps
    skullcrushers 3 sets 8-10 reps
    crunches 4 sets 8-10 reps

    i'd also like to know where you came up with the ****ed up idea of 1-2 sets for hardgainers?
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. However.

    You just asked him to name another compound exercise that hit the same muscles as the bench press. You then told him he couldn't, while proceeding to do it yourself.

    Lemme see.

    There's incline, flat, and decline bench. You can do it with varying grips, as well. Then there are incline, flat, and decline dumbbell presses. These can be done supinated, twisting your wrists, so on. You can even do pushups, with a multitude of variations. And last but certainly not least, there are dips.

    Furthermore, I don't believe he was recommending doing only 1-2 sets for hardgainers... it seems he was recommending 1-2 sets PER EXERCISE, for hardgainers.
  38. New Member
    ex_banana-eater's Avatar
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    HST definitely did it for me, kept me leaner than usual too. Im out of bodybuilding now though.
  39. Senior Member
    Biggs's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ex_banana-eater
    Im out of bodybuilding now though.
    ?
  40. LunaHotel's Avatar
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    Well, for me, over 10 years training, my best gains have been while doing 20 total sets per workout with 60-90 second rest between. Workout never lasts more than 45 minutes.

    4 exercices with 5 sets each per major bodyparts Back and Legs,
    3 exercices of 5 sets for chest
    and 3 of 3-4 for the rest.

    Works. Reps vary, from a low of 8 up to 15.

    But now I'm trying 4-6 reps with 120 seconds rest... Less sets.
  

  
 

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