GDA Q and A
- 05-20-2012, 12:33 PM
sorry coop my comps not letting me qoute things.
as far as the atrogin.... i believe USP labs went over this in great detail heres the qoute
MulletSoldier replied with this:
I unfortunately do not have access to this full journal, so my commentary will be mostly speculative at this time. This being said, I will address the comments as best as possible.
As we see from the abstract, it appears that berberine extract-induced decreased muscle protein synthesis and increased muscle protein degradation is dependent on an increased expression of both atrogin-1, a key proteolytic gene present in a variety of catabolic states, and eIF3-f, a key component of the mTOR activation pathway. At first blush, this obviously appears to be indefensibly negative, as the atrogin-1 induction was not dependent upon the Atk/PI3K transcription pathway, and is thus entirely the result of berberine.
With that being said, we need to remember an important fact: these were diabetic mice. Insulin resistance is often associated with an increased in the activity of the ubiquitin-proteasome proteolytic pathway, and in particular, the expression of atrogin-1 to promote muscle atrophy. The mechanisms here are complex, but for a reference, the expression of both atrogin-1 and atrogin-1 transcription promoters have been shown to be increased by 15 fold in insulin resistant states."
- 05-20-2012, 12:37 PM
what i seem to find stranger is that Berberine inhibits Fox-O1 which suppresses gluconeogenic hormones,
there needs to be human studies. However, i think that due to our diets, slight inhibition wont and shouldnt be worrysome
- 05-20-2012, 12:38 PM
05-20-2012, 12:51 PM
One more thing i have to comment on...
Diabetics have increased expression of a lot more genes than we do. I dont think that atrogin levels in normal, non diabetic humans play a role in this.
Id like to see how other things like ALA, due to increases in AMPk, affect atrogin and muscle protein synthesis. We alreaqdy do know that it affect mTOR.
I will indeed look into this further, and coop, if you can as well on the Atrogin-1 levels of normal vs diabetic humans. Im sure we can collectively come up with an answer
05-20-2012, 12:51 PM
Unfortunately, this quote is inaccurate because non-diabetic mice also experienced muscle catabolism. Atrogin-1 expression was not the culprit.
I've been looking into it as well because berberine holds a lot of promise as a multi-dimensional ingredient, but it's tough to start using it when this particular study is in direct conflict with the goals of a bodybuilder.
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES
05-20-2012, 12:59 PM
completely agree! however you need to look at it as its effects on mTOR, PGC-1a, and AMPk
These are down regulated with an antagonism of PPARy. This is conducive to weight loss. Its very near impossible in a catabolic state to keep mTOR up, this is due to the effects Akt has on adipogenesis and glucogenesis, and protein synthesis
05-29-2012, 01:03 PM
What is the best ingredient (berberine, banaba, vandyl sulfate, ALA, gymnea, etc) for keeping blood sugar level while eating higher GI carbs?
I eat white rice and red potatoes as my stachy carbs (cant stand brown rice or plain oatmeal) so what can I take to prevent my blood sugar from spiking?
05-29-2012, 01:33 PM
I'm curious how people feel about high GI vs. Low GI because most people feel different based on the type of carbs they eat. Ultimately I think it would only be an issue if you were diabetic or had a lethargic feeing after a certain type of carb.
I posted this in another thread figured I'd post here.
Is my thought process correct or am I off with the above posting/statement?
05-29-2012, 03:50 PM
Any product if legitimate in this catagorie would doOriginally Posted by RawStrength
You can go simple and use ala or more complex and use recompadrol or any other products
05-29-2012, 03:54 PM
Type ones can usually eat what they wantOriginally Posted by AaronJP1
Type 2 diabetics have more underlying issues like resistance in the liver in which insulin cannot block FOX01. This means the bodies liver will continue to relate glucose
I personally feel high gi. Insulin levels spike and return to normal faster allowing increased fat burning potential.
It can be argued the other way as well
30g carbs equals 30g carbs. Your body will secrete the same amount of Insulin to carry that load just over different periods of time
05-29-2012, 04:04 PM
Yeah so, only a diabetic should be worried about GI index...?Originally Posted by EBF Inc
05-29-2012, 04:15 PM
05-29-2012, 04:16 PM
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You can look at it that way, but wit the ingestion of simple carbs, we see spikes and drops in B/Sugar levels.Originally Posted by AaronJP1
Longer chains of carbs as we all know generate longer satiety and more energy over longer period. Why spike, get hyper for say 2 hours, then fall off the face of the earth with no energy and going hypo?
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05-29-2012, 04:22 PM
Yes and no. Depends on the type of diabetic and medication used.Originally Posted by AaronJP1
05-29-2012, 04:26 PM
It increases ampk and thus activates glucose uptake therefore lowering sugarsOriginally Posted by RawStrength
05-31-2012, 10:17 PM
The king of GDAs will be back shortly. Should be done Monday then off for testing
06-01-2012, 05:12 PM