Building perfect havoc/epi cycle.

[hoggie15]

This is going to be my first post and first cycle. I have been lifting for 5 years (6'1, 190lbs lean) not sure of exact bf%. I've recently broke my hand and lost a lot of strength due to not lifting for almost 2 months. A friend introduced me to Rpn Havoc and I am very interested in this product and i want to give it my PH/AAS virginity. I am coming to these forums to ask you pros to help me construct a good cycle and most importantly a pct. Here's what I have so far.

Pre cycle: Week 1: milk thistle 500mg enough?
Week 2: same

Cycle: (was initially going 4 weeks don't know if 6 would be best?)

Havoc: 20/30/30/40
OR
Havoc: 20/30/30/30/40/40

I've heard it doesn't kick in until week 3-4 and can be ineffective at levels less then 30mg/day.

Cycle Support: servings?

Also wondering if milk thistle should be used on cycle. I've read it can mess wit the potency of the steroid but at the same time I don't want liver failure.

Pct: Tamoxifen: 40/30/20/20
Liver Support

Also wanted to try a SARM during pct. don't know if that's a good idea for this cycle or for my first cycle. What do y'all think? I was wanting to run MK-2866 but don't know if a pct is required after that or if shutdown would be imminent.

I know there are a lot of questions and concerns I have. I just want to be as prepared and safe as possible. I will also be using creatine mono, preworkout, protein, fish oil, and multi vits.

Thanks for the help

 

[SinX]

This is going to be my first post and first cycle. I have been lifting for 5 years (6'1, 190lbs lean) not sure of exact bf%. I've recently broke my hand and lost a lot of strength due to not lifting for almost 2 months. A friend introduced me to Rpn Havoc and I am very interested in this product and i want to give it my PH/AAS virginity. I am coming to these forums to ask you pros to help me construct a good cycle and most importantly a pct. Here's what I have so far.

Pre cycle: Week 1: milk thistle 500mg enough?
Week 2: same

Cycle: (was initially going 4 weeks don't know if 6 would be best?)

Havoc: 20/30/30/40
OR
Havoc: 20/30/30/30/40/40

I've heard it doesn't kick in until week 3-4 and can be ineffective at levels less then 30mg/day.

Cycle Support: servings?

Also wondering if milk thistle should be used on cycle. I've read it can mess wit the potency of the steroid but at the same time I don't want liver failure.

Pct: Tamoxifen: 40/30/20/20
Liver Support

Also wanted to try a SARM during pct. don't know if that's a good idea for this cycle or for my first cycle. What do y'all think? I was wanting to run MK-2866 but don't know if a pct is required after that or if shutdown would be imminent.

I know there are a lot of questions and concerns I have. I just want to be as prepared and safe as possible. I will also be using creatine mono, preworkout, protein, fish oil, and multi vits.

Thanks for the help

Welcome and since this is your first time, I would pre-load for two weeks, both milk thistle and hawthrone berry, me personally I went 2-3g's of MT during pre-load and dropped it on cycle. I think 20mg would be good for maybe the first couple of days to see how you react and 30/40 is good, they say 50 is the sweet spot for most. I'm running epi right now on top of other things and I started at 40mg, other than headaches, nausea, minor pumps so far and lack of endurance these are some of the sides I've encountered the first week, but I have a few cycles of ph/ds/sarms/andro, etc.

I would say see how you feel after 4 weeks and if you feel good, then slowly increase it, 5-6 weeks should be enough, so 20 first few days, 30 rest of the 2 weeks, see how you feel and bump it to 40 for the remaining and seeing on how things go, 50. Keep an eye on your BP and I would have a few things on hand such as aromasin/prami, just in case you develop gyno, letro being the absolute last resort, but hopefully it won't come to that.

Epi is a steroid and if you don't do the right things, yes there's a good chance of liver failure; not drinking enough water/supps, etc. If you haven't picked up nolva already, do your body a major favor and get torem or clomid; pick one, lemme know and we'll put in the doses, or you can google it. I wouldn't use a pwo on cycle, I've tried it several times and feels like I'ma vomit my heart out sometimes.

I would suggest starting off with the sarm, depending on your goals and work your way up, especially after an injury; I had to wait a bit of time and ran sarms/1andro coming back from certain injuries and after a mini pct and pre-load hit a cycle. But if your mind is already made up, least we can do is help and I would look around at a few more logs around here with epi to make sure you know what you're putting into your body and see what others, including myself, use oncycle and PCT.

 

[SinX]

also throw in a test base or use stano to help with certain sides

 

[hoggie15]

I have not purchased a pct yet, so tore or clomid would be best? If I chose to run the sarm before the cycle would a pct be required between the sarm and cycle? Also what is an example of something with a test base? Are you suggesting I stack epi with test and winstrol? Please pardon my lack of knowledge with this.

Thanks again

 

[SinX]

I have not purchased a pct yet, so tore or clomid would be best? If I chose to run the sarm before the cycle would a pct be required between the sarm and cycle? Also what is an example of something with a test base? Are you suggesting I stack epi with test and winstrol? Please pardon my lack of knowledge with this.

Thanks again

Very nice, in that case I would go with torem or clomid; a lot less sides and less toxic/harsh on your body.

Well, depending on which sarm and how long you run it for, I would always suggest a mini PCT; usually 2-3 weeks of a test booster, ai (topical) and daa, depending on the length of cycle. For example, if you run reasonable sarm doses for 4-6 weeks, you can get away with a 2 week mini pct; however, if you hit 8 weeks, I'd go with the 3 week mini PCT and no a serm is not required, unless you go crazy high with your doses.

I'd suggest to stack epi and test, but not stanzolol (winstrol), there's a non-mehtyl compound named stano; it's not a test base, but it will aid as one in the sense that, it will help out with libido and negate certain sides. For your first cycle though, I wouldn't go too crazy though and stack too much, I think epi + test would be a good enough gauge, but just be careful coming off an injury, you're gonna get stronger pretty quick on epi, and the last thing you wanna do is hurt yourself mid cycle.

 

[hoggie15]

Is a stack with stanodrol necessary? If so what benefits would it have? Would it lead to better gains? Hormone balance? And since its non-methylated, it isn't toxic to the liv? If you suggest the benefits are worth it i will definitely take stano along side my epi. Hopefully you can help me craft a solid cycle with the two.

Also I have researched the stano and it says it converts to DHT which if I'm not mistaken is tough on the hairline. I really do not wish to aggravate the hair loss that runs in the fam so if there are any pointers on that? Also would an ai be needed on cycle thanks to the stano or will the epi handle that?

I was planning on taking osta during pct to help with keeping gains but I like your idea of taking it before the cycle and doing a mini pct then hitting the cycle and pct. I am planning on starting mid may so i have time to plan this out perfectly. I really appreciate your help btw. It's great guys out there are willing to share some wisdom to the noobs like myself.

Thanks again

 

[hoggie15]

Also instead of havoc I was considering epi 2a3a. Not sure which one is better or if there is a real difference. Do you guys have an opinion?

 

[SinX]

Is a stack with stanodrol necessary? If so what benefits would it have? Would it lead to better gains? Hormone balance? And since its non-methylated, it isn't toxic to the liv? If you suggest the benefits are worth it i will definitely take stano along side my epi. Hopefully you can help me craft a solid cycle with the two.

Also I have researched the stano and it says it converts to DHT which if I'm not mistaken is tough on the hairline. I really do not wish to aggravate the hair loss that runs in the fam so if there are any pointers on that? Also would an ai be needed on cycle thanks to the stano or will the epi handle that?

I was planning on taking osta during pct to help with keeping gains but I like your idea of taking it before the cycle and doing a mini pct then hitting the cycle and pct. I am planning on starting mid may so i have time to plan this out perfectly. I really appreciate your help btw. It's great guys out there are willing to share some wisdom to the noobs like myself.

Thanks again

It would help with libido, lethargy and a few other sides; you could use this or something like transderm or a test transdermal I've been using and been liking quite a bit so far. Start off with the sarms as that promotes joint lubrication and won't leaving you hurting more. Slowly get back into it, obviously last thing you wanna do is injure yourself anytime during cycle, especially after coming back from one; especially something your wrist.

Also instead of havoc I was considering epi 2a3a. Not sure which one is better or if there is a real difference. Do you guys have an opinion?

same thing, go with what's cheaper, prob find havoc for 20-30 searching on google and a very 2 large online stores, just check seller feed back and try to make sure they have a site of their own/sound like a legit company, and come from a reputable site/vendor. Make sure to read around here, lots of great logs with epi and other ds/ph's and gather as much info as you can (I'm running epi now as part of a kick start), we don't mind helping you, but for your own benefit you should be researching as much as you can.

 

[hoggie15]

Okay so here's what I have so far. I'm dropping the whole sarm idea first off. Going to save this for a few cycles down the road.

Havoc: 30/30/30/40/40/40
Stano: 600/600/800/800/800/800

What do you think? Too much for a first cycle?

Also taking cycle support, fish oil and milk thistle on cycle.

 

[hoggie15]

What is the test transdermal you have been using?

 

[hoggie15]

It would help with libido, lethargy and a few other sides; you could use this or something like transderm or a test transdermal I've been using and been liking quite a bit so far. Start off with the sarms as that promotes joint lubrication and won't leaving you hurting more. Slowly get back into it, obviously last thing you wanna do is injure yourself anytime during cycle, especially after coming back from one; especially something your wrist.

What's the test transdermal you've been using?