Nad's Derm/Epi cycle

NADDANME

NADDANME

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Nad's 1st cycle Derm/Epi what do you think

I posted up awhile ago about running a Dermacrine cycle and after some good advice and some more research. I decided to run a pulse of Epi at the same time:

Dermacrine 6wks
10/10/10/15/15/15
Epi 5wks
0/30/30/30/45/45 on days Mon,Tue,Thur,Fri


Multi: Opti-man
Fish oil: 6gs a day
Milk thisle: 1 am 1 pm on non Epi day's
Cranberry extract: 1 am
also additional D and B vitiman not sure the dose
Animal Flex: once i morning
ZMA:1 hr before bed
10g of BCAA (USP)
I think thats it beside my whey and casin shakes.

Only question i have is should i run a AI/TB on my off days

Starting stats

5'10" 202.5 BF% 15
 
NADDANME

NADDANME

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On my 2nd week 1st day off on my pulse of Epi not much to note. I have been having good workouts with plenty of energy even though i cycled off my preworkout. Weight has been up 1 or 2 lbs most days, but that is fairly normal for me. I think next week is when the fun will start. Still trying to decide if i should run a AI on my off days and if i do should i dose it 6-8 hour after my last Epi or should i wait till the next day?
 
NADDANME

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wk 2 day 4:
First new PR today on bicep curls!! Really hope this cycle starts to heat up next week. I have notice that my BP is starting to be a bit of a problem so i'm going to pick up some Hawthorneberry on my way home from work today. Anybody have any sugestion on what kind of dose i should use.
 

franklin

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Which Brand Epi are you using? I assume its Myopharma's since it is 15 mg. Any lethargy?
 
NADDANME

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Which Brand Epi are you using? I assume its Myopharma's since it is 15 mg. Any lethargy?
Yes it is. So far no lethargy. I did get a bad headache and got sick on Friday. I hope it isn't related. I'll find out next week when I go back on my pulse.
 

franklin

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Have you checked our Blood Pressure since you started your cycle?
 
NADDANME

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Have you checked our Blood Pressure since you started your cycle?
yah, i know it's not a BP thing i've had that problem b4 i know what it's like. I'm pretty sure that it was a cluster headache. Seem's to happen to me every few months. Have a headache in the evening next morning when i wake up it's worse couple hours later i'm heaveing my guts out. Next day I'm pretty much back to normal.
 

gymrat827

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The reason why your not seeing much gain is because the dose is too low.

I would go to 45mg now and than to 60 after 2wks. It would be nicer if you have 10mg caps cuz you could do 50mg. but work with what you have.

I was dosing 20mg 2.5hr pre WO, 20mg 15min pre WO, 20mg 35min post WO.
 
NADDANME

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The reason why your not seeing much gain is because the dose is too low.

I would go to 45mg now and than to 60 after 2wks. It would be nicer if you have 10mg caps cuz you could do 50mg. but work with what you have.

I was dosing 20mg 2.5hr pre WO, 20mg 15min pre WO, 20mg 35min post WO.
Thanks i am planning to up to 45mg next week instead of waiting till week 5. If that goes well i'll go to 60mg for the last week or two.

Update:week 3 day 2
I'm up about 2 lbs from week one. I think it would be more if i didn't get sick on friday. Went about 2 days not eating enough and couldn't keep anything down also missed my shoulder/deadlift day. I feel that i have even started to lose some BF. So i think thing are going well next week i'll up my dermacrine and epi dose's. So far i haven't noticed any sides. I'm starting this cycle out slower than most because i want to see how my body react's. I am Autoimmune so if i get to run down then i get sick and it take along time to get health again. I would much rather get 5-6 lbs while losing some BF over 6wks. Then try to put on 10 lbs in 6 wks only to get sick and end up losing it all. If i find out that i can handle a weaker cycle like this then next time i'll up the ante.
 
NADDANME

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Week 3 day 5

Weight is up again today to over 206. I sure that some of it is WW but still this week every day weight seem to keep going up. Workouts have been good i get just as good of a pump taking Epi before my work out that i did with Jacked. If my blood pressure wasn't a concern i'd try adding Jacked while on cycle. BP hasn't been bad just a tad higher than i'd like. So far i'm happy with my results. I feel and look tighter don't think i've lost much BF but with the weight gain i'm happy to just not be putting on fat. This week was very crazy with my mother inlaw having surgery so my diet wasn't as spot on as i'd like it to be. Next week i'm going to cut back on my carbs and see if i can get my weight to stay about the same while leaning out.I might start my cut a week sooner than i was planning to. If i don't start dropping some weight soon i'll have to go out and get new clothes. LOL
 
NADDANME

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week 4 day 1

Well my weight keeps going up. I'm now up to 209 almost 7 lbs in just over 3 weeks. My diet was off some this week end. So i'm sure that i've put on a little more BF than i was hoping, but i'm still very happy with my results thus far. Today i set another PR this time on the bench which has been stuck for a couple months. With almost three weeks left i'm really pumped to see what kind of gains i can get. I'm going to start cutting back on my carbs and upping my cardio a little each week. To see if i can balance out the weight gain and start leaning out. The only sides that i've had to deal with are a slight increase in BP and back pumps. I think that if i wasn't running the Dermacrine that i would be felling more lethargic because on my off day's i have tons of extra energy.
 
NADDANME

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week 4 day 4

I had another great workout today. It was a tri/bi workout I thought that my arms where going to rip they where so pumped. I went up in reps or weight in almost all my lifts today. I've cut back my carbs to under 200 per day for the last 3 days and my weigh is still going up. 210 even as of today even though it dropped to 207.8 the first day i cut back on carbs. This is even with me adding in more cardio. If this is what a mild ( by most peoples standards ) pulse is like i can't imagine what a full cycle would be like. I'm still only running 45 mg 2 days on 1 off 2 on 2 off. The only side that is giving me any concern is my BP and it's only up much when i'm lifting real heavy. I'm going to increase my Hawthorne berry and start looking into other things that can help so post up any sugestions. High BP is something that run's in my family and has been a issuse for me for sometime.
 
rulk22

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Very popular stack, and good log btw. For blood pressure, adding any one of these could help, Garlic, CO Q10, Fish Oil, Folic Acid. Another more mild addition is Calcium, Potasium and Magnesium. Good luck with your pct bro.
 
NADDANME

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Very popular stack, and good log btw. For blood pressure, adding any one of these could help, Garlic, CO Q10, Fish Oil, Folic Acid. Another more mild addition is Calcium, Potasium and Magnesium. Good luck with your pct bro.
Thanks I just started co qo10 so well see how that works for me
 
NADDANME

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week 5 day 1

Had another great work out with a PR in my bench of 225x7. which has me super pumped because bench has been my weakest area all along.
 
NADDANME

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Week 6 day 1

Well this cycle is coming to a end. It's been a good learning experience and i have put on about 9 lbs with no real change in BF. All my major lifts have gone up and my max bench has jumped almost 30lbs. So i just hope that i can maintain most of what i gained. My thinking with going with a mild pulse was that i could maintain my gains easier. So if that prove true then i'm happy with everything so far. My only question to anyone that might read this is starting my PCT should i change my Diet or routine at all to help keep my gains. I would like to start a cut soon but a'm thinking that i should wait a couple weeks so i don't compermise any of my gains.
 

Xerxes

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Will you be logging your PCT as well?

Keep eating a caloric surplus, as you've been doing. In fact you should probably consume more calories to maintain your gains. A proper PCT with good eating habits is more important for maintaining gains then the cycle itself. Don't try to "cut" or diet for at least 6 weeks, preferably longer if possible. Giving your body at least 6 weeks to adjust to your gains will help to preserve them better. Cutting or dieting now will only led to a loss of muscle mass and strength, thus rendering the cycle useless.
 

franklin

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Will you be logging your PCT as well?

Keep eating a caloric surplus, as you've been doing. In fact you should probably consume more calories to maintain your gains. A proper PCT with good eating habits is more important for maintaining gains then the cycle itself. Don't try to "cut" or diet for at least 6 weeks, preferably longer if possible. Giving your body at least 6 weeks to adjust to your gains will help to preserve them better. Cutting or dieting now will only led to a loss of muscle mass and strength, thus rendering the cycle useless.
I have seen same advice countless times. Since I am new to PH's can you please explain the rationale behind this advice?
Thanks
-f
 

Xerxes

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I have seen same advice countless times. Since I am new to PH's can you please explain the rationale behind this advice?
Thanks
-f
Sure no problem.

When you are on cycle your body is able to grow muscle faster and also preserve muscle mass more easily, even if your not eating as well as you should be. The quicker your gains come, the more susceptible they are to being lost post cycle, thus the need to up your caloric intake. The rationale behind eating more post cycle is that your body needs to consume more calories in order to retain the gains made during a cycle. While "on" your body is better able to partition nutrients, etc. creating a more productive and thus anabolic state leading to more muscle growth, while "off" your body isn't creating this super-anabolic state, thus the need to consume more calories.

Cutting directly post cycle isn't recommend because the gains made from the cycle were produced "unnaturally quick," and thus your body needs more time to adjust to them, in order to maintain them. Most people lose weight post cycle, for a variety of reasons, like lack of glycogen retention, etc. dieting right away will only accelerate muscle lose. Cutting down in weight directly post cycle will make you basically lose many, if not all, of your gains. 6 weeks is what a lot of people recommend, because it gives your body a chance to reach a level of homeostasis (i.e. balance); eat more post cycle so that your body gets used to its newly added mass. Also cutting, or dieting in general, is likely to create hormonal imbalances, something that you want to steer clear from in PCT.

Just remember the goal of any successful PCT is to restore hormonal balance and integrity (i.e. test production, estrogen levels, etc.) with the overall aim of solidifying gains.
 

franklin

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Sure no problem.

When you are on cycle your body is able to grow muscle faster and also preserve muscle mass more easily, even if your not eating as well as you should be. The quicker your gains come, the more susceptible they are to being lost post cycle, thus the need to up your caloric intake. The rationale behind eating more post cycle is that your body needs to consume more calories in order to retain the gains made during a cycle. While "on" your body is better able to partition nutrients, etc. creating a more productive and thus anabolic state leading to more muscle growth, while "off" your body isn't creating this super-anabolic state, thus the need to consume more calories.

Cutting directly post cycle isn't recommend because the gains made from the cycle were produced "unnaturally quick," and thus your body needs more time to adjust to them, in order to maintain them. Most people lose weight post cycle, for a variety of reasons, like lack of glycogen retention, etc. dieting right away will only accelerate muscle lose. Cutting down in weight directly post cycle will make you basically lose many, if not all, of your gains. 6 weeks is what a lot of people recommend, because it gives your body a chance to reach a level of homeostasis (i.e. balance); eat more post cycle so that your body gets used to its newly added mass. Also cutting, or dieting in general, is likely to create hormonal imbalances, something that you want to steer clear from in PCT.

Just remember the goal of any successful PCT is to restore hormonal balance and integrity (i.e. test production, estrogen levels, etc.) with the overall aim of solidifying gains.
Nad- Congrats on the successful cycle.

Xerxes-

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I think I'll have to take your advice and push my cut back a little.
 
NADDANME

NADDANME

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Will you be logging your PCT as well?

Keep eating a caloric surplus, as you've been doing. In fact you should probably consume more calories to maintain your gains. A proper PCT with good eating habits is more important for maintaining gains then the cycle itself. Don't try to "cut" or diet for at least 6 weeks, preferably longer if possible. Giving your body at least 6 weeks to adjust to your gains will help to preserve them better. Cutting or dieting now will only led to a loss of muscle mass and strength, thus rendering the cycle useless.
Good advice,
I think i'm in trouble then. I got really busy last week ate horrible and ony went to the gym once. I haven't missed going to the gym or ate poorly for then one day in the last few month then i took the worst week to drop every thing. Well i'll be back at the gym today and we'll just have to see.

P.S. last week sucked i was super busy with work and several other deadline's in my personal life. Then in the middle of the week the company i work for screwed me out of 3,500.00 dollars that they promised me.(which fr me is alot ) I was so pissed off i took off friday and missed the gym after already missing do to busting my ass the first half of the week.
 

Xerxes

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Good advice,
I think i'm in trouble then. I got really busy last week ate horrible and ony went to the gym once. I haven't missed going to the gym or ate poorly for then one day in the last few month then i took the worst week to drop every thing. Well i'll be back at the gym today and we'll just have to see.

P.S. last week sucked i was super busy with work and several other deadline's in my personal life. Then in the middle of the week the company i work for screwed me out of 3,500.00 dollars that they promised me.(which fr me is alot ) I was so pissed off i took off friday and missed the gym after already missing do to busting my ass the first half of the week.
I understand bro, sh*t happens! Obviously don't try to over compensate by making up for lost eating time...just get back on track ASAP, get your eating schedule back in line and hit the weights hard as hell! Since you ate a little crappier, and took some time off from lifting, you should be able to hit the weights twice as hard. Look towards the positive bro and tear that sh*t up!

GOOD LUCK!
 
NADDANME

NADDANME

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I understand bro, sh*t happens! Obviously don't try to over compensate by making up for lost eating time...just get back on track ASAP, get your eating schedule back in line and hit the weights hard as hell! Since you ate a little crappier, and took some time off from lifting, you should be able to hit the weights twice as hard. Look towards the positive bro and tear that sh*t up!

GOOD LUCK!
Thanks i was actually happy with my work out today it was My chest/bench day. I was able to hit all the same wieght's and reps as i did last week. My weight was down about 2 lbs, but my cardio was much better with out the killer back pumps that i got no matter how much taurine i took (10 grams). How does PCT work for most people are there size and strenght loss in the first week or two or is it more gradual. If i can stay where i'm at with out much more strengh or size loss then i'd be real please. but being my first cycle i'll just have to see how the next couple week go.
 
Orangatang

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Thanks i was actually happy with my work out today it was My chest/bench day. I was able to hit all the same wieght's and reps as i did last week. My weight was down about 2 lbs, but my cardio was much better with out the killer back pumps that i got no matter how much taurine i took (10 grams). How does PCT work for most people are there size and strenght loss in the first week or two or is it more gradual. If i can stay where i'm at with out much more strengh or size loss then i'd be real please. but being my first cycle i'll just have to see how the next couple week go.
My Hdrol PCT went like a breeze, gradual loss if any. What do you have lined up for pct?
 

Xerxes

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Thanks i was actually happy with my work out today it was My chest/bench day. I was able to hit all the same wieght's and reps as i did last week. My weight was down about 2 lbs, but my cardio was much better with out the killer back pumps that i got no matter how much taurine i took (10 grams). How does PCT work for most people are there size and strenght loss in the first week or two or is it more gradual. If i can stay where i'm at with out much more strengh or size loss then i'd be real please. but being my first cycle i'll just have to see how the next couple week go.
Very good question. Again I believe that gain or loss is 99% dependent on diet, and usually increased caloric intake as previously stated. However as the exogenous hormone (i.e. Prohormone) leaves your body there will be a loss of size, usually a negligible amount, assuming ones diet and exercise routine is in check. Try to maintain strength by increasing weights lifted and lowering reps, that's what I do and its always worked for me. Lost size that was unnaturally obtained from any type of "preforming enhancing" chemical can be regained much easier post cycle if strength is still increasing. I usually continue to go up in weights during my entire PCT. Plus, one's assuming diet and lifting is in check, and strength hasn't been decreased to much, ones muscles would theoretically possess more muscle memory and as such be more malleable to change in order to "regenerate" muscular hypertrophy lost post-cycle.

Keep eating, lifting, and training and you will be fine. Are you planning on running any more cycles, or only sticking to 1 or 2 per year?
 
NADDANME

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Very good question. Again I believe that gain or loss is 99% dependent on diet, and usually increased caloric intake as previously stated. However as the exogenous hormone (i.e. Prohormone) leaves your body there will be a loss of size, usually a negligible amount, assuming ones diet and exercise routine is in check. Try to maintain strength by increasing weights lifted and lowering reps, that's what I do and its always worked for me. Lost size that was unnaturally obtained from any type of "preforming enhancing" chemical can be regained much easier post cycle if strength is still increasing. I usually continue to go up in weights during my entire PCT. Plus, one's assuming diet and lifting is in check, and strength hasn't been decreased to much, ones muscles would theoretically possess more muscle memory and as such be more malleable to change in order to "regenerate" muscular hypertrophy lost post-cycle.

Keep eating, lifting, and training and you will be fine. Are you planning on running any more cycles, or only sticking to 1 or 2 per year?
Thanks
I think that my PCT is jinxed because I ended up taking my wife to the ER last night. They kept her so I got to sleep in a hospital only about 3.5 hrs and spend the day running to work for acouple hrs and sitting around while waiting for test results and eating bad. I had mcdonalds for breakfast. I didn't even get to take my TRS. Well it looks like every thing is going to be fine. Tomorrow I should be back on track.

Ps I think I'll run another cycle in april or may
 

Xerxes

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Thanks
I think that my PCT is jinxed because I ended up taking my wife to the ER last night. They kept her so I got to sleep in a hospital only about 3.5 hrs and spend the day running to work for acouple hrs and sitting around while waiting for test results and eating bad. I had mcdonalds for breakfast. I didn't even get to take my TRS. Well it looks like every thing is going to be fine. Tomorrow I should be back on track.

Ps I think I'll run another cycle in april or may
Sorry about the wife, hope everything is ok. Life happens, I've eaten at McDonald's twice this week:happysad: and I'm not too happy about it. I did at least eat 2 spicy chicken sandwiches, maple-fruit oatmeal and a salad, so not to bad!
 
NADDANME

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I think that my PCT is jinxed because I ended up taking my wife to the ER last night. They kept her so I got to sleep in a hospital only about 3.5 hrs and spend the day running to work for acouple hrs and sitting around while waiting for test results and eating bad. I had mcdonalds for breakfast. I didn't even get to take my TRS. Well it looks like every thing is going to be fine. Tomorrow I should be back on track.

Ps I think I'll run another cycle in april or may
Well i was right my PCT is JINXED. I ended up getting some nasty bug from the hospital. My wife seem's to be fine there still running some tests but they think that its stomache acid of all things. Me on the other hand i've been sick as a dog for a week. Everythings wrong with me lol head, throat, chest cold and stomache. I'm pretty much back to my pre cycle weight and still not back to the gym. Maybe tomorrow if i feel better.
 
NADDANME

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It would almost be funny if it didn't suck so much how bad this month has been for me and working out.

Ok so today is the first day that i've felt good enough to go to the gym and actually had the time to. The last two day's my car has left me stranded on my way to work. So i had to work late to make up time and fix my car. So today i actually get to go to the gym. After my normal warm up i decide to start with my bench. I thought that i should take it east since i've been missing so much this month. So i work up to 215 for reps is stead of the 225 that i've been doing second set about 2 reps in and i get a sharp pain in my left Pec right where it joins the shoulder. I have never had a pec issuse anytime and this is only the second time i've ever even pulled a muscle working out in years. So looks like i'll be taking it easy for acouple more weeks. Like i said My PCT is JINXED right know i'm worse shape than before my cycle.
 

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