My M-1-test/trans 4AD cycle

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    My M-1-test/trans 4AD cycle


    *Original post included below. Cycle summary was combined on 10-17-03 to make for easier reading.

    Post #1
    Greetings to the board. A little background first. Approx two years prohormone experience switching totally to homebrewing after discovering this site (Thanks to all of you!). Last cycle about three months ago of homebrew trans 1-test/ 4AD running a month at about 300mg/400mg a day with 6oxo post. Great results with about 6% bf reduct and about a 5lb lbm gain. Sides were lethargy which seemed to come and go and mild joint pain. No previous real gear experience but much knowledge learned on all things anabolic. Twenty years lifting, nutrition, supplementation. Decided to try M-1-test as a legal way to test the waters of stronger anabolics and also because I believe these types of substances won't be around for too long.

    Here's my plan:

    30 day bulking cycle
    30mg M-1-test
    400mg transdermal homebrew 4AD

    Other sups:

    Siliphos(milk thistle)
    NAC
    Anarchy stack(R-ALA, green tea, acetyl-l carnitine, biotin)
    My usual high potency multi vitamin/ mineral with extra antioxidents and electrolytes...potas,magnes,ta urine
    My usual EFA's(flax oil, fish oil)
    Creatine
    BCAA's

    Diet

    approx 1000-1200 cals above maintenance
    approx 2 1/2 grams carbs per lb bwt
    approx 2 grams protien per lb bwt
    approx 10%- 20% cals from fats, mainly good one's..flax, fish, olive

    Training

    Double split OVT program (Optimized volume training)
    No cardio

    Other protocols

    Homemade topical spiro (hairloss)
    Homemade topical ZIX (zinc sulphate/B6 for hairloss)


    Started Sunday Sept 28th with 10mg M-1-T...nothing to report.
    Monday, Sept 29 bumped to 20 mg...minor lethargy, nothing to report.
    Tuesday, Sept 30 bumped to 30mg...no lethargy, squat poundage up 6%, a bit more hard and vascular in evening.
    Wendsday, Oct 1. 30 mg. Intense lethargy required two naps. Slight poundage increase on incline dumb presses. Will weigh in tomorrow. Will bump back down to 20mg tomorrow on advice from Chemo and others. Blood pressure okay. I'll keep ya all posted. Peace.
    Post #2
    Update

    Day 5: Bumped back down to 20mg. Weighed in for first time, up 4 lbs. Morning workout, slight increase in strength. Slight joint soreness, no lethargy so far today.
    Post #3
    Update

    Day 5...end of day

    Lethargy returned mid afternoon and was able to shake it off. Sometimes all this requires is closing my eyes and become very relaxed for 5-10 minutes without actually falling asleep and then Im fine. Im trying to stay away from stims (caffiene and or ephedra) while on but have some on hand just in case. Am noticing general all over minor body aches, kinda feels like the flu, nothing major.
    Post #4
    Update

    Day 6: Lethargy returned with a vengence today. It was an off training day and I had the luxury of napping..which I did. Considering upping 4AD a bit to see if this helps. Will weigh in tomorrow. Feeling bigger but look a bit smooth. Waist still tight. Bi's pretty sore from yesterdays w/o.
    Post #5
    Update

    Day 7:

    Weighed in again today. Up 7 1/2 lbs. Lethargy better. Increased weight on all excercises of back workout today. Still have minor joint soreness, especially in left knee. Still have overall slight body aches. debating lowering dose of M-1-test. Wondering if I should just stay at 20mg since I've been on for a week now just for research purposes. sides are managable so far, nothing worse than my homebrew 1-test at around 300mg, I'd say that the M-1-test sides just kicked in sooner. Would like to hear all's opinion on whether I should lower my dose. I plan to run 4 weeks total. Feeling thicker all over, still smooth and wondering if it's just the carbs sincer I've never had any problem with 4AD bloat. Leg day tomorrow....yipeee! Peace.
    Post #6
    Update

    Day 8:

    Lethargy was brief but intense today so were flu like feelings. I woke up feeling great, actually very refreshed and I was originally going to do a double split on legs but due to commitments and since I had alot of energy decided to do quads and hams together in AM. Strength was up on all lifts especially goodmornings(low back felt very strong) and completed entire workout with plenty of energy. Then about 1-2 hours post It hit me hard. Felt like I had a fever(took temp and did not), sweaty and tired. Had to lay down and napped for about two hours. woke up kinda groggy then about an hour later felt fine and feel fine since(11:30 pm now). This seems to be a pattern with me so far where about 2- 3 hours after morning dose of M-1-test (currently at 20mg) the same symtoms set in. Sometimes mild, sometimes intense. For the record I take my M-1-test either with my first meal which would be aprrox 90 grams carbs(oatmeal,heavygrain toast), approx 50 grams protien from powders or If Im working out AM I'll take it with a teaspoon of flax oil about an hour before workout then begin drinking a simple carb/ protien drink before during and after workout. So I haven't figured out yet if I ever will why it hits me harder some days. It has made me rethink my workout times. I think Im probably going to have to give in and start using some caffiene because my schedule will not afford me the luxury of naps at will as much. So today was a bit rough but I got though it and as of now will stick with 20mg. I did have some days like this on my homebrew 1-test. Will weigh in tomorrow and have an off day from lifting, resuming tuesday with a double split. Lab rat over and out. Peace.
    Post #7
    Update

    Day: 8

    ...continue...forgot one thing. My left knee joint was more tweaky yesterday and today where I could feel it when I walked especially decending stairs but did not bother me at all on leg day today...squated no problem and did heavy dumbell lunges which forces me to really stabilize knees. Im guessing I don't have a structural problem (never had knee trouble) and it's just the M-1-test. Might up my taurine from 2 to 5 grams.
    Post #8
    Update

    Day 9:

    Weighed in, up another 1 1/2 lbs...9 lbs total. Gotta be holding a good deal of water as I look very smooth. Abs pretty much gone. Fat calipers show maybe 1/2% bf gain. My usual late night vascularity is gone as well. Im surprised weight is up again since cals were a bit lower last couple of days. I have been using R-ALA before all carb meals. This is the first time I've tried using it during a bulk. No sides today so far. Wondering if taking M-1-test with large first meal as opposed to just a tsp flax on empty stomach might be making the difference. I'll be monitoring this closley. Upped Taurine by a couple of grams last night and joints feel better today. It's an off training day, but Im feeling I could train and might still. Appetite not great last couple of days..hard to choke down clean carbs.
    Post #9
    Update

    Day 10: Computer back up so I'll combine day 10-11 updates. Day 10, had great chest/tri workout. Strength up on all lifts but not freaky up, some minor cramping of muscles being worked. Used some caffiene and a half tab of ephedrine(12.5 mg). Left knee is getting worse. Lethargy managable. Vascularity returned late night and chest/tris allready sore from morning workout.

    Day 11:

    Chest/tris prety sore, knee pain up, lethargy intense, slept most of the day. First day that lethargy really effected me in that I did not workout or do other things I had to do today..kinda depressed actually. I think I just need to commit to taking stimulants regularly If Im to make the most of this cycle(If your too tired too train whats the point). My overall assesment up to this point has been negative. Even though my weight is up it's been too much of a struggle. Im going to commit to try some stimulants before I can make a final judgement. Adrenal glands be damned! God bless.
    Post #10
    Update

    Day 12: Weighed in today and unchanged at about +9 1/2 lbs which surprised me because my cals have been low the past couple of days due to extended sleep periods. Took 200 mg caffiene and 12.5 mg ephedrine in am before workout and was enough to stave off lethargy for remainder of day. Trained back/bi's/abs and all muscle groups felt very tight, especially abs. Upped my potasium to 800mg. Knee and joint pain better today. Libido still good, perhaps a tad low. Boys still fairly intact, right one a little smaller. No acne or hairloss to date. Wondering if I should take the cycle a full 4 weeks or stop when and if Im up 15 lbs. Should I be concerned about too much weight gain in one month? Most I've ever gained in 4 weeks of prohormone bulk was about 12 lbs. Im going to really try to turn up my training and diet now that I think I can manage lethargy with moderate stimulant usage as I feel the lethargy has held my progress back due to lack of training and meal frequency. A question for the board..All I have for post cycle is liquid nolva and wondering if you all think this is enough if I run the full 4 weeks? Thanks. Peace.
    Post #11
    Update

    Day 13: Well gang Im thinking I might run this for only two weeks given the feedback I've read. Weighed in today and up now a total of 12 lbs. Only reasons I was gonna run 4 was because I know 1-test gains really start to kick in after 2 weeks, wanted hopefully 15 lb gain and was just curious as to effect of this new substance(lab rat). Im happy with 12 lbs and just wondering how real these gains are. I do report that my abs have come back out a bit, my waist is stiil tight and calipers show show about only 1 1/2% increase in bf. Strengh up today on Quad workout. lethargy under control with moderate stimulant usage.

    Id appreaciate all your opinions on if I should stop cycle and what you'd recommend. My thoughts would be to stop after 14 days, then 2 off with nolva, then 2 on at 10 mg then 4 off. My goals would be to gain a total of 15lbs lbm. I figure if I stop at 2 weeks I'd be up about 10 lbs lbm. Thanks for any and all input. Peace and God bless.
    Post #12
    continue Update.....

    just thought I'd mention that I think my using R-ala during this bulk has keep the gains as lean as they have been. Also forgot to mention that I have had some minor low back cramping the past week. Also my overall body ache flu-like symptoms have pretty much gone and only soreness I feel now is from the muscle worked from previous workouts.
    Post #13
    Update

    Day 14:

    ..previous questions: The knee pain seems to come and go regardless of upping my potas which Im at about 800 mg. No pain during Quad workout yesterday,even tried some extentions which I normally don't do much of and felt 0 pain, but today pain is back when I walk? Very weird.

    I am taking plenty of biotin with my r-ala. Only thing I could of improved on would be to drink more water.


    Well I've decided to stop my cycle at 14 days. Reasons would be that Im happy with gains and I'd like to minimize shutdown so I can go again in 2 weeks. I'd say overall the sides were about equal or maybe a little more than 1-test(trans homebrew at 300mg ed). Sides were lethargy, minor body ache, minor cramping, knee joint pain and maybe a little anxiety and or depression. Libido remained good as did hair and no acne. No aggression. Changes I would make on next M-1-test cycle would be more water, high dose electrolytes from day 1, stimulant usage at first sign of lethargy(I feel this hampered training frequency and meal frequency), and lower dose, ie 10mg. Plan for next two weeks is liquid nolva, keep cals high, more flax, continued OVT training(combo strength/hypertrophy). Next two week cycle will be continued bulk lowering dosage to 10mg and kepping homebrew trans 4AD the same(approx 400mg)


    Final stats:

    2 week bulk, 20mg M-1T(I did use 30mg for a couple days) 400mg 4AD
    Total weight gain: 12 lbs
    Bodyfat increase: 1-1 1/2%
    Waist increase: 3/4'

    Misc: I did not take in the amount of cals I had projected nor was my training frequency as projected. My guess would be that If I had I would of gained closer to 15 lbs. Also forgot to mention appetite was not great during whole cycle. Well thanks for tuning in and for all your encouragement and feedback. I'll keep the updates coming occasionally during my off cycle and continue full force in two weeks. Thanks again. Peace and God bless. Michael.
    Post #14
    Update:

    Day 5 (post first two week cycle)

    Weight down 2 pounds, a little lax in keeping cals up. First thing I noticed was muscle soreness gone and lethargy stopped right away. My working muscles while on were becoming more and more sore post workout and the last couple of days on my forearms were real tight. No cramping, just a tightness I'd never experienced before. It didn't bother me. It's almost as if I was feeling the muscle grow beneath my skin. All sides I had while on are gone. Currently on liquid nolva and getting some acne. Still on all liver sups and will continue. I feel I will be better prepared for my next two week cycle after experiencing the effects first hand. My body composition while not changed much does look different. I just don't have that extreme muscular look that I had the last week I was on. It's hard to explain, it's not just that I was more pumped up or vascular or whatever it's just a "look". I noticed this because I shot a video for my wifes conference where I was spoofing an infomercial and I had that look. I was like, "damn...I look good". Having never done a true steroid Im guessing this is what it can do. That's all for now, I'll update as needed. Peace.
    Post #15
    Post cycle udpate

    Day 8 post cycle: Gained back a pound, which puts me up 11 total from 12 original. Had a personel best flat benching today, felt very strong on this exercise only. Been better at keeping calories up..alot easier now with appetite back. Also trying to limit any stimulants during this time so I can use them regularly once cycle starts again and not deplete thee ole adrenals too bad. Only side on Nolva so far has been acne. I do have a question for the board about what dosage do you think I should use during two week mini off cycles? I've been at 40mg for 7 days and went down to 30mg tonight. Thanks.

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    Good luck with reaching your goals and keep us posted!

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    I Wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted. Thanks
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    My M-1-test/4AD log


    Update

    Day 5: Bumped back down to 20mg. Weighed in for first time, up 4 lbs. Morning workout, slight increase in strength. Slight joint soreness, no lethargy so far today.
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    Very interested in this so keep us updated and good luck once again!
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    DAMN people are putting on weight fast with this stuff
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    Originally posted by NO MERCY
    DAMN people are putting on weight fast with this stuff
    This is the real deal...stock up while supplies last. After it's gone there will probably not be any around for some time.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by Chemo

    This is the real deal...stock up while supplies last. After it's gone there will probably not be any around for some time.

    Chemo
    YA I hear you im gonna grab some
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    Update

    Day 5...end of day

    Lethargy returned mid afternoon and was able to shake it off. Sometimes all this requires is closing my eyes and become very relaxed for 5-10 minutes without actually falling asleep and then Im fine. Im trying to stay away from stims (caffiene and or ephedra) while on but have some on hand just in case. Am noticing general all over minor body aches, kinda feels like the flu, nothing major.
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    Update

    Day 6: Lethargy returned with a vengence today. It was an off training day and I had the luxury of napping..which I did. Considering upping 4AD a bit to see if this helps. Will weigh in tomorrow. Feeling bigger but look a bit smooth. Waist still tight. Bi's pretty sore from yesterdays w/o.
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    Michael,

    Try to take the dose down to 10 mg ED...

    We need to find a dose that will allow for a full 4 weeks of continuous use with as few sides as possible. IMO, 20 is still too heavy of a dose. It looks like the final recommended dose is going to be 5-10 mg with an aromatizing agent (such as 4-AD or test) or 10-20 mg as a standalone anabolic.

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by Chemo
    Michael,

    Try to take the dose down to 10 mg ED...

    We need to find a dose that will allow for a full 4 weeks of continuous use with as few sides as possible. IMO, 20 is still too heavy of a dose. It looks like the final recommended dose is going to be 5-10 mg with an aromatizing agent (such as 4-AD or test) or 10-20 mg as a standalone anabolic.

    Chemo
    Wow, thats really low! Do you plan on running a cyle soon? I'm interested to see what you have to see once you have ran a full cycle
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    Update

    Day 7:

    Weighed in again today. Up 7 1/2 lbs. Lethargy better. Increased weight on all excercises of back workout today. Still have minor joint soreness, especially in left knee. Still have overall slight body aches. debating lowering dose of M-1-test. Wondering if I should just stay at 20mg since I've been on for a week now just for research purposes. sides are managable so far, nothing worse than my homebrew 1-test at around 300mg, I'd say that the M-1-test sides just kicked in sooner. Would like to hear all's opinion on whether I should lower my dose. I plan to run 4 weeks total. Feeling thicker all over, still smooth and wondering if it's just the carbs sincer I've never had any problem with 4AD bloat. Leg day tomorrow....yipeee! Peace.
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    I think as a community, it would serve everyone better if you continue at 20 mg/day...........but ONLY if you can stand the sides. Then we can have someone do 10 mg/day. Since we have Sir Bobo doing 30 mg/day, that would give us 3 solid data points for planning our own cycles. Then we can have people try ramping up, down etc.

    You're doing a great job describing benefits/sides Michael. Keep up the good work
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    IMO, the full gamet of feedback from a single user that has experienced the sides associated with M-1-T at all doses will be invaluable at this point. To my knowledge, you will be the first to report sides at 30 mg, 20 mg, and 10 mg ED.

    Good luck and report often...

    Chemo
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    Anyone experience any hairloss?
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    Bobo is a freak of nature. At 30mgs the lethargy and BP was starting to really kick ass for me. At 20 nothing. I to droped doseage down to 20 at the request of Chemo. Truthfully the effects (not side effects) are still the same as they were on 30. Muscles solid as a rock, Strength up a decent amount(today I did shoulders and my buddy that I train with plays college football and hes a strong cat, I had him in shock when I was easily doing my final shoulder press sets, front and rear with 235lbs for 10 reps and that was after 4 prior sets.) The **** is definitly working. I havent weighted in lately but I have leaned out a fair amount over the last week and a half. Im also running 4-AD along with it. Im in love.

    I would definitly love to here that the effects at 10mgs are still quite strong for someone of my size, 6'1" 230-240lbs and experienced trainer and user. That would mean that I could get almost 3 cycs per bottle and Im sitting on 4 bottles right now. I would be set for the next couple years.

    Good luck bro and keep us posted on your results.

    db
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    Thanks DB and Michael
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    I predict that we'll find the average dose to be exactly what is said on the bottle...10 mg. Yes, it's that effective.

    Chemo
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    I am going to start my cycle on Tuesday. 20mg a day for 6 weeks. What do you guys think?
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    Start at 10. Someone needs to see if the results are comparable to determine if we are wasting anything over an effective dose. If 10 mgs is effecitve for most people then theres no reason 20 should be taken. You wont grow twice as fast by doubling the doses so like Chemo said A minimum standard dose needs to be found by compiling research from users cycles. Try 10, If after a week results arent noticable like those on 20 then up it.

    db

    Just my thoughts.
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    I'm going off of another post. He stated he could tell the thermogenic difference in dropping from 20 to 10. Thats why I was wondering. I will be using it for cutting.
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    Interesting to see, keep us informed.
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    Originally posted by sifu
    I am going to start my cycle on Tuesday. 20mg a day for 6 weeks. What do you guys think?
    Sifu,
    You could do us all a favor by doing a 10 mg cycle. Then we can have another seperate data point since we have guys doing 20 mg and 30 mg
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    Update

    Day 8:

    Lethargy was brief but intense today so were flu like feelings. I woke up feeling great, actually very refreshed and I was originally going to do a double split on legs but due to commitments and since I had alot of energy decided to do quads and hams together in AM. Strength was up on all lifts especially goodmornings(low back felt very strong) and completed entire workout with plenty of energy. Then about 1-2 hours post It hit me hard. Felt like I had a fever(took temp and did not), sweaty and tired. Had to lay down and napped for about two hours. woke up kinda groggy then about an hour later felt fine and feel fine since(11:30 pm now). This seems to be a pattern with me so far where about 2- 3 hours after morning dose of M-1-test (currently at 20mg) the same symtoms set in. Sometimes mild, sometimes intense. For the record I take my M-1-test either with my first meal which would be aprrox 90 grams carbs(oatmeal,heavygrain toast), approx 50 grams protien from powders or If Im working out AM I'll take it with a teaspoon of flax oil about an hour before workout then begin drinking a simple carb/ protien drink before during and after workout. So I haven't figured out yet if I ever will why it hits me harder some days. It has made me rethink my workout times. I think Im probably going to have to give in and start using some caffiene because my schedule will not afford me the luxury of naps at will as much. So today was a bit rough but I got though it and as of now will stick with 20mg. I did have some days like this on my homebrew 1-test. Will weigh in tomorrow and have an off day from lifting, resuming tuesday with a double split. Lab rat over and out. Peace.
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    Update

    Day: 8

    ...continue...forgot one thing. My left knee joint was more tweaky yesterday and today where I could feel it when I walked especially decending stairs but did not bother me at all on leg day today...squated no problem and did heavy dumbell lunges which forces me to really stabilize knees. Im guessing I don't have a structural problem (never had knee trouble) and it's just the M-1-test. Might up my taurine from 2 to 5 grams.
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    Update

    Day 9:

    Weighed in, up another 1 1/2 lbs...9 lbs total. Gotta be holding a good deal of water as I look very smooth. Abs pretty much gone. Fat calipers show maybe 1/2% bf gain. My usual late night vascularity is gone as well. Im surprised weight is up again since cals were a bit lower last couple of days. I have been using R-ALA before all carb meals. This is the first time I've tried using it during a bulk. No sides today so far. Wondering if taking M-1-test with large first meal as opposed to just a tsp flax on empty stomach might be making the difference. I'll be monitoring this closley. Upped Taurine by a couple of grams last night and joints feel better today. It's an off training day, but Im feeling I could train and might still. Appetite not great last couple of days..hard to choke down clean carbs.
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    Bro, from teh sound of it, your gains are pretty mucht eh exact same as mine - I was up 9 pounds in 9 days too - I even lowered my cal count. I would recommend only doint a two weeks cycle as you may not lose your natural test. That;s what I did - i am going back on on Thursday of this week.
    -AT
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    2 on 2 off? then 2 on 4 off? What are the longer term cycle plans? I assume when you stop you are stopping the 4AD as well?
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    Originally posted by bigbadboss101
    2 on 2 off? then 2 on 4 off? What are the longer term cycle plans? I assume when you stop you are stopping the 4AD as well?
    No. Here's what Iam going to do... 2 ON, 1 off with 800 mg 6-OXO daily, 2 ON, OFF (clomid and 6-OXO).
    -AT
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    Originally posted by bigbadboss101
    2 on 2 off? then 2 on 4 off? What are the longer term cycle plans? I assume when you stop you are stopping the 4AD as well?
    No. Here's what Iam going to do... 2 ON, 1 off with 800 mg 6-OXO daily, 2 ON, OFF (clomid and 6-OXO).
    -AT
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    Originally posted by db682
    (today I did shoulders and my buddy that I train with plays college football and hes a strong cat, I had him in shock when I was easily doing my final shoulder press sets, front and rear with 235lbs for 10 reps and that was after 4 prior sets.)
    db
    Dang db!

    When I grow up and get big, I want to be able to military press that kind of weight

    Great Job
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    Well as I stated earlier, I will not be doing 10 per day. A lot of people wanted me to do it so we could all have something to go off of. Well I am not going to be the guinea pig of the group. I am taking it for fat loss and muscle hardening effects. So I feel that 20 is the best route. I know some people are saying that 10 per day should work, but I don't want to be the one who finds out that it doesn't.
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    Update

    Day 10: Computer back up so I'll combine day 10-11 updates. Day 10, had great chest/tri workout. Strength up on all lifts but not freaky up, some minor cramping of muscles being worked. Used some caffiene and a half tab of ephedrine(12.5 mg). Left knee is getting worse. Lethargy managable. Vascularity returned late night and chest/tris allready sore from morning workout.

    Day 11:

    Chest/tris prety sore, knee pain up, lethargy intense, slept most of the day. First day that lethargy really effected me in that I did not workout or do other things I had to do today..kinda depressed actually. I think I just need to commit to taking stimulants regularly If Im to make the most of this cycle(If your too tired too train whats the point). My overall assesment up to this point has been negative. Even though my weight is up it's been too much of a struggle. Im going to commit to try some stimulants before I can make a final judgement. Adrenal glands be damned! God bless.
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    Update

    Day 12: Weighed in today and unchanged at about +9 1/2 lbs which surprised me because my cals have been low the past couple of days due to extended sleep periods. Took 200 mg caffiene and 12.5 mg ephedrine in am before workout and was enough to stave off lethargy for remainder of day. Trained back/bi's/abs and all muscle groups felt very tight, especially abs. Upped my potasium to 800mg. Knee and joint pain better today. Libido still good, perhaps a tad low. Boys still fairly intact, right one a little smaller. No acne or hairloss to date. Wondering if I should take the cycle a full 4 weeks or stop when and if Im up 15 lbs. Should I be concerned about too much weight gain in one month? Most I've ever gained in 4 weeks of prohormone bulk was about 12 lbs. Im going to really try to turn up my training and diet now that I think I can manage lethargy with moderate stimulant usage as I feel the lethargy has held my progress back due to lack of training and meal frequency. A question for the board..All I have for post cycle is liquid nolva and wondering if you all think this is enough if I run the full 4 weeks? Thanks. Peace.
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    I'M GOING TO RUN IT FOR FOUR WEEKS AT 20MG A DAY, THEN FOUR WEEKS OFF, THEN 10MG A DAY FOR THREE WEEKS THEN 8 WEEKS OFF. I WILL BE USING 6-OXO, TRIB, AND TONS OF FLAX POST CYCLE.

    Sorry just realized it was caps on.
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    Originally posted by michael
    Update

    Day 12: Weighed in today and unchanged at about +9 1/2 lbs which surprised me because my cals have been low the past couple of days due to extended sleep periods. Took 200 mg caffiene and 12.5 mg ephedrine in am before workout and was enough to stave off lethargy for remainder of day. Trained back/bi's/abs and all muscle groups felt very tight, especially abs. Upped my potasium to 800mg. Knee and joint pain better today. Libido still good, perhaps a tad low. Boys still fairly intact, right one a little smaller. No acne or hairloss to date. Wondering if I should take the cycle a full 4 weeks or stop when and if Im up 15 lbs. Should I be concerned about too much weight gain in one month? Most I've ever gained in 4 weeks of prohormone bulk was about 12 lbs. Im going to really try to turn up my training and diet now that I think I can manage lethargy with moderate stimulant usage as I feel the lethargy has held my progress back due to lack of training and meal frequency. A question for the board..All I have for post cycle is liquid nolva and wondering if you all think this is enough if I run the full 4 weeks? Thanks. Peace.
    BUMP to the Nolva question. I plan on running the same exact stack in December and plan on using Nolva post cycle.
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    Update

    Day 13: Well gang Im thinking I might run this for only two weeks given the feedback I've read. Weighed in today and up now a total of 12 lbs. Only reasons I was gonna run 4 was because I know 1-test gains really start to kick in after 2 weeks, wanted hopefully 15 lb gain and was just curious as to effect of this new substance(lab rat). Im happy with 12 lbs and just wondering how real these gains are. I do report that my abs have come back out a bit, my waist is stiil tight and calipers show show about only 1 1/2% increase in bf. Strengh up today on Quad workout. lethargy under control with moderate stimulant usage.

    Id appreaciate all your opinions on if I should stop cycle and what you'd recommend. My thoughts would be to stop after 14 days, then 2 off with nolva, then 2 on at 10 mg then 4 off. My goals would be to gain a total of 15lbs lbm. I figure if I stop at 2 weeks I'd be up about 10 lbs lbm. Thanks for any and all input. Peace and God bless.
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    Originally posted by michael
    Update

    Day 13: Well gang Im thinking I might run this for only two weeks given the feedback I've read. Weighed in today and up now a total of 12 lbs. Only reasons I was gonna run 4 was because I know 1-test gains really start to kick in after 2 weeks, wanted hopefully 15 lb gain and was just curious as to effect of this new substance(lab rat). Im happy with 12 lbs and just wondering how real these gains are. I do report that my abs have come back out a bit, my waist is stiil tight and calipers show show about only 1 1/2% increase in bf. Strengh up today on Quad workout. lethargy under control with moderate stimulant usage.

    Id appreaciate all your opinions on if I should stop cycle and what you'd recommend. My thoughts would be to stop after 14 days, then 2 off with nolva, then 2 on at 10 mg then 4 off. My goals would be to gain a total of 15lbs lbm. I figure if I stop at 2 weeks I'd be up about 10 lbs lbm. Thanks for any and all input. Peace and God bless.
    Great info Michael. Well its your body and your decision. I am curious to see how much mass this compound could help put on in 4 weeks. I was thinking about running 4 weeks but from what I am seeing I may also stick with 2 weeks. I have not made up my mind yet. I agree with you that 1test usually starts kicking in after 2 weeks. The methyl 1 test seems to kick in right away. Good luck on whatever you decide to do. Thanks.
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    continue Update.....

    just thought I'd mention that I think my using R-ala during this bulk has keep the gains as lean as they have been. Also forgot to mention that I have had some minor low back cramping the past week. Also my overall body ache flu-like symptoms have pretty much gone and only soreness I feel now is from the muscle worked from previous workouts.
  

  
 

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