My P-Plex log

[BrMe86]

Stats:
22 y/o
5'9"
165lbs

P-Plex dosing
Days 1-5: 15mg
Days 6-21: 30mg
Days 22-?: ?

post cycle therapy - Nolva 40/30/20/10

I probably won't go over 30mg for the rest of the cycle. The cycle started Sunday 2/3. I frontloaded one week with Life Support. I didn't realize that it's half the dose of Cycle Support, so I'm double dosing that until I get the Cycle Support that I ordered in the mail later this week. I'm not using an AI right now because I don't know that I'll really need it. I can get my hands on one as soon as I want it if I feel I need to add it in. I also have Taurine and Magnesium for back pumps. This is my first cycle.

Diet:
+300gr of protein from food
3500 cals
Clean bulk

Training:
DFT 5X5

Additional supps:
Whey - 20gr pre & 60gr post
Malto/Dextrose pre & post
Fish oil - 4-6gr
Vitamin
MSM/Glucosamine/Chondroitin (900/1500/1200)

Summary
Sides - I had a bit of lethargy during weeks 2-3. I also had some problems with back pumps. Taurine and magnesium helped with that. The pumps were caused in part by poor hydration. Libido was solid. No acne.

Gains - My BW was up 13 lbs at one point from the start of the cycle. I finally leveled off at 173lbs (8lb gain). 5X5 on bench press went up 5 lbs twice a week during weeks 2 & 3. This is one of my weaker lifts.

Overall - I think that my gains were not worth the money. That's partly because I still have plenty of room for natural progression. I liked the compound overall. Sides were very mild and the gains were good.

 

[BrMe86]

Monday 2/4 - Day 2 of cycle

Squats - 5X5 235
Bench - 5X5 175
T-bar Rows - 5X5 100
Tricep stuff

Body weight - 165

Squats are A2G. My 5RM going 'parallel' is around 315, but I just made the switch so I'm taking it easy. Squats should be up 10-20lbs every week. Bench sucks but I've made changes and it can't do anything other than improve now.

I have back pumps already, I think. They're mild. I'm posting this a day late (Tuesday). My calves have been cramping today also. Water + Taurine + Magnesium seems to help. I don't guess I'll have anything important to say until next week, but I'll keep the log updated.

EDIT: I think those cramps were just random.

 

[elcid2007]

just finished running 4 weeks of p-plex. Unfortunately, I am not a strong responder to the compound as far as strength and the 'on' feeling others report. Gained 11 pounds on cycle over the course of the 4 weeks. Took me 3 weeks to even really 'feel' the compound working

 

[BrMe86]

Wed 2/6 - Day 4 of cycle
Deadlifts - 5X3 285, 295, 305, 315, 325
Arnolds - 5X5 55
Chins - 3X8
Ab work
Superset
Lat Pulls - 3X8 120
Reverse Curls - 3X8 45

Body weight - 169

Good workout. Not much has changed since I posted yesterday. Already at 240gr of protein on the day and I have two meals left. The lat pulls were very light...just worked on form and squeezed/held at the bottom. I did reverse curls just so I could superset the lat pulls with something.

 

[BrMe86]

Fri 2/8 - Day 6 of cycle

Squats - 5X5 225, 235, 245, 255, 265
Bench - 5X5 175
T-Bar Rows - 5X5 90
Incline Bench - 3X8 145
Tricep stuff

Body weight - 171

First day at 30mg PP. Weight is up a little more. Decent workout. Sore lower back...ruptured discs suck.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 9 of cycle

Bench - 5X5 180
Squats - 1X2 255, 2X5 225
Rows - 5X6 90
Tricep work

My back is messed up pretty badly. Couldn't do much with squats. I'm taking it easy...stretching, ice, and heat on the back...probably light deads on Wednesday. We'll see how it feels. Forgot to weigh myself also. Still no sides...I think the cramps that I had last week were not related. Well, libido is higher, but that's all.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 11 of cycle

Deadlifts - 5X3 285, 305, 315, 325, 335
Standing Shoulder Press - 5X5 115, 125, 125, 135, 135
Chin ups - 5X5 BW
DB Shrugs - 2X8 60, 75
Straight Bar Curls

BW - 173

Couldn't remember what weight to do for shoulder press. My triceps have gotten a lot stronger over the past couple of weeks. Deadlifts were heavy. Body weight is still going up. I think the PP is finally kicking in. I'm just focusing on hitting my numbers during the workouts and in the kitchen. I should have done before and after pictures. The pumps during workouts are fun. No side effects so far....

 

[Brian5225]

awesomeman,keep up the good work, i'm subbed. gonna run it in a few months. How's bodyfat been so far?

 

[BrMe86]

I have probably put on 3lbs of body fat out of the 8 gained so far. I'm sort of surprised. My maintenance calories are around 2600. I'm taking in around 3300 right now. Protein is still over 300gr a day. I didn't want to put on so much fat, but I'm not going to mess with things in the middle of the cycle. I've had 3 cheat meals in the past 3-4 weeks. It's been clean..even when I cheated, it wasn't too bad. I'm liking the cycle so far.

 

[bigpoppapump2]

good luck bro! you're gonna have fun with the p-plex!

 

[BrMe86]

Day 13

Bench - 5X5 185
Squats - 5X5 265
Rows - 5X5 95
Accessory work

Body weight - 173

Um...185 was easier today than 180 was on Monday. The plan was 185 next week, but I might go for 190 on Monday. I don't know what the deal is with my weight. If I haven't put on a lb or two by Monday, I'm going to increase calories by 300. Back felt better today. I know my numbers aren't that impressive, but my form has been great lately. I'm evening out in the places that were underdeveloped. Better mind-muscle connection. Everything is looking good.

Sides: After bench, I went to do squats. I couldn't get my hands on the bar and my neck on the other side...upper back was cramped like crazy. I stretched and stretched and it hurt like hell. I finally just sucked it up and lifted.

 

[BrMe86]

Mon - Day 16

Squats - 5X5 275
Bench - 5X5 190
DB Rows - 5X5 70
Dips - 3X11 BW+35
Hack Squats

Weight - 173

Good workout. Bench has been going up a lot. P-Plex has really kicked in. Hack squats were really deep...mostly just a stretch. Squats felt light. Not going to increase calories yet...maybe Wednesday if the weight is the same.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 18

Deadlifts - WU, 5X3 305, 315, ---
Standing shoulder press - 5X5 135
Lat pulls
curls

BW - 174

Obliterated my lower back...don't know what the deal is. I was a little tight, but had a longgg warmup and stretched a little. I was halfway up on the last rep of the second set, could feel the strain in my hams, back wasn't rounded...then it felt like my spine just twisted/slipped right on my ruptured disc (L5,S1). Had to cut those short because I could barely bend over to reach the bar. I just can't really walk or stand or sit very much. Icing it now, so maybe I won't be out of the game for too long. Rest of the workout sucked...shoulder press was painful because of the back. I did light curls and lat pulls...just concentrated on form. Deep, slow reps with a hold/squeeze at the bottom. I don't think I'll be doing squats or deads for a while. Maybe leg press...we'll see Friday. No notable side effects to speak of.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 20

Bench - 5X5 195
Rows - 5X5 105
Calve raises - 4X15 90
Leg Press - 4X10 200
CH Bench

Body weight - 174.5

Good workout...managed to do some leg press. I was planning on running the cycle for 5-6 weeks, but might end it sometime next week. Just depends on the back. If I can't at least go heavy with leg press, then I'm not going to bother.

Sides: Calves were cramping. I don't think I'll be doing calve raises any more unless it's the very last thing I do before I walk out of the gym.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 23

Bench press - 3X5 200, 2X5 195
Random stuff

Body weight - 175.5

Did some circuit training and supersets with one of my buddies today. High reps...I've never been so sore during/directly after a workout in my life. Couldn't do squats today because of the back. The plan is to do some light squats at some point next week. Flying by the seat of my pants right now.

I didn't hit my planned progression (5X5 @ 200) on bench today. I've been waiting for this to happen. I was planning to up the dose to 45mg and run that for 1-2 weeks or until sides come up as soon as I slowed down. Anyone think I shouldn't?

 

[Cool]

At 165-175lbs, I think 30mg is plenty. This is some powerful stuff here. I'd up cals/protein before anything else.

 

[BrMe86]

Cool...thanks for the feedback. I agree with ya...that's what I was leaning towards doing. I'm terrified of all the sides that go along with orals. Aside from the fact that I'm not that big, like you said.

Calories were at 4000 today. I am going to keep it there for the rest of the cycle. I mostly just increased carbs though. I'm already taking in +300gr of protein from whole food. I think my metabolism is increasing. I'm starting to become hungry all the time when just a few weeks ago I was stuffed eating 3300-3500 cals.

 

[DBinMD]

Day 23

Bench press - 3X5 200, 2X5 195
Random stuff

Body weight - 175.5

I didn't hit my planned progression (5X5 @ 200) on bench today. I've been waiting for this to happen. I was planning to up the dose to 45mg and run that for 1-2 weeks or until sides come up as soon as I slowed down. Anyone think I shouldn't?

Wish I caught this log sooner; I’m not sure how I missed it. You’re body weight and bench are still going up, so I don’t see a need to up the dose either. You may not have gotten this work out’s goal, but still, you’ve put at least 20 lb on your bench in 23 days. If you stall on your next wo you can try going up a full or half dose. I did a cycle in January, I peaked during the 5th week. I went into week 6, but probably should’ve stop at the 5th.

I know that 5x5 275 means 5 sets of 5 reps, but I’m not sure what 5X3 305, 315. Anyway, do you realize that aas will increase your muscle strength faster than your tendon strength? This can put you at greater risk of injury especially since you have a pre-existing condition. I’m not sure what the answer is, normally I’d suggest keeping the reps medium to high, except I pulled what I think is a hip tendon on my last cycle while doing a set of 12. It wasn’t that bad though. This is why some recommend Cissus. Normally, I’m happy with Glucosamine/Chondroitin, too, (you didn’t specify how much) but next time I think I’m going to add Cissus.

 

[BrMe86]

Thanks for the response. It's good to talk to someone about it. I suppose I was just worried about not hitting Monday's goal because it's my first cycle.

I know that 5x5 275 means 5 sets of 5 reps, but I’m not sure what 5X3 305, 315.

I always do ramped sets when I do deadlifts. I had problems with cramping around my hips when I was doing the 5X5 with same weight. I don't know how to describe it, but it sucked and messed up my workouts. I have much better form doing sets with 3 reps. The 305, 315, --- just meant that I didn't finish the last three sets. Wasn't a very good way of saying that though, was it?

Cissus is what I'm researching tonight, actually. Cool that you mentioned it too. I knew about the relationship between muscle and tendon growth when using steroids. I just didn't do anything about it. For me, doing as much as I was on deads was a LOT. I probably shouldn't have pushed so hard so fast. Definitely learned my lesson though.

I'll edit my first post and add that info in.
Glucosamine- 1500mg
Chondroitin- 1200mg
MSM- 900mg

Just read your log...good stuff. First log I've read where someone ran their cycle that way. I have some Methyl E...I was thinking about running another cycle over the summer/fall. I will have enough P-Plex left over to run that for at least three weeks, then I was thinking about bridging into the Methyl E (epi) to dry out towards the end. I definitely wish the P-Plex came in 10mg capsules instead of 15mg.

 

[DBinMD]

BR,

Since this is your first cycle, I suspect anything will make you grow, so, IMO, try not to go much over 30. When your gains stop you should probably stop. From what I seen, 5 weeks is plenty.

I’ve never enjoyed high rep deads, either, but if I don’t do some it’s almost a guarantee that I’ll pull a hamstring and won’t be able to do much for a couple of weeks or so. So what I do that works for me is: 225x5, 340x10, 410x8, 470x6, 2 sets of 505x3-6. I included the weights just to give you an idea of the increments. I’ve tried skipping the 225, but it just doesn’t seem to work. I keep my squats high, too (8-15, sometimes 6) but they aren’t as uncomfortable.

The first time I did Cissus was last fall after I pulled a bicep tendon during a cycle (sdrol/epi I don’t recommend it). Most of the time high reps (>10) works and I’m over it within 4-6 weeks but in this case it wasn’t going away even with the Cissus. This went on for a couple months until I stopped taking the Cissus before my wo. I think the analgesic properties were masking the pain and letting me aggravate the injury. I think my plan for the future is to take it from about 2 weeks before cycle thru the end of PCT but not within 3-4 hours of the start of my wo. Other than that I rarely get tendonitis anymore and I think it’s due to mostly to doing fewer heavy sets plus the gluco/chon. & fish oil. Also, the cycle I did last summer and my recent one were the first ones since the proh. ban back in 1995(?). For me, they are mostly just the icing on the cake.

From what I know, your dose of gluco/chon is fine.

As far as my log, thanks. Since you’re new to this, my doses were kinda high for you. I think I’m pretty close to a big as I’ll get. I’ve seen/heard some people blow up like balloons on this stuff but most don’t. If they did then after a 3 or 4 cycles they would all look like Jay Cutler.

I wish phera came in 10mg, too. I’ve taken a half cap of phera on occasion without any problem.

One more warning, it’s happened to me and a friend and I’ve seen it on this board, too. I’ve gotten real mopey after my last 2 cycles. That never happened to me on the old style prohormones but sdrol and phera are a lot stronger; I just rode it out realizing that sooner or later it would end.

Good Luck,

 

[BrMe86]

I am going to switch most of my lifts to higher reps soon. I've been doing more strength oriented workouts for the past...well, as long as I've been lifting. But I want to switch to a mass based routine after this cycle. 5X5 is definitely a mass builder...I think it's just a little more focused on strength.

I definitely don't want to run the cycle any longer than is necessary. It seems like most people run it about a week longer than they need to. I guess it's just to make sure they get all of the gains possible out of it.

I have had a bit of lethargy the past two weeks. I kind of think it's the phera. That and an insane workload. But mostly the phera. It finally pissed me off enough that I just got up and worked my ass of doing stuff that needed to get done and that has helped, I think. Still feeling a little lethargic though. Thanks for the heads up. I didn't really consider that. It makes more sense that this would happen during PCT or after.

The way you spaced your deadlifts out makes a lot more sense. Doing a 5X3, but spacing out each set 10lbs isn't going to make a lot of difference. That's something I will change when I go back to doing them. I always do a little bit of a stretch/warmup..nothing intense. Then do 1-2 sets very light weight working on form. Then do a warmup set (or two) @ 50% for 5 reps. Then a weight acclamation at 80% of my first set for 3 reps. That's typical of all of my heavy compound lifts. When you were talking about doing 225X5, is that part of a warm up or weight acclimation?

Thanks for the info on the cissus. I think I'm going to order some this week.

 

[DBinMD]

Re: When you were talking about doing 225X5, is that part of a warm up or weight acclimation?

I don’t do any warm-ups other than what I stated. So it’s more of weight acclimation. I used to do 225x12 but really hated doing that many reps, but cutting it out totally usually meant hamstring pulls. Going from 50% of max to 80% would be too big a jump for me (almost 160 lbs) even for you that would still be about 110 lbs, I think doing something in between would be prudent.

There’s different ways of training and I’m not claiming mine is best. But one thing that’s worked for me is to save the heavy sets (3-6) for the power movements (BB bench, squats, deads) and lighten up on the rest (8-12 mostly). Actually, I’m not a big fan of reps < 6 but sometimes that’s what I need to get the 3rd plate on bar for benching (more of an ego thing).

One other thing to consider is the standing presses. Nothing wrong with them, if that’s what you prefer, but until your back heals, you may want to consider seated presses. I think they’re a stricter movement and probably less strain on your back.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 25

Pull ups - 5X5
Military Press - 5X5 135
Squats - 1X8 135
Curls, Chins
Hyper extensions

Weight - 177 :head:

Didn't do any leg press like I planned, but that's fine. I felt pretty good doing those squats. Didn't think I should mess with anything after I did them though. I will mix in some light squats and leg press on Friday. This was a very intense workout. Rest times were short and it was a killer bicep day. I decided yesterday that biceps are my most neglected muscle group, so I hit them hard today. Apparently seated military press is easier than standing BB shoulder press. I like it more anyway...less stress on the back. I had been planning on switching to that today. Good workout...

 

[celc5]

Just sifted through your log and wanted to make a few comments.

I had no "on" feeling whatsoever with phera but still had excellent results.

Sounds like you didn't take enough taurine with the back symptoms. You're having big time back pumps dude. My personal sweet spot seems to be around 6g/day, but it takes more to combat back pumps if you have them already... like in the 10/g day range. It also sounds like with all your cramping, that your water intake is lacking.

I agree, the during workout pumps are phenomenal!

Regarding not wanting to put on too much fat, I had to really monitor carbs on phera to avoid the fat gain. I ended up putting on 7.5 pounds lean mass and 1.5 pounds fat (per caliper/skinfold). I have a log on here if you wanna check it out or have any questions.

 

[BrMe86]

Thanks celc

I actually have your log bookmarked. I read it through 3 times before I started my cycle and I've read through it at least twice since starting. It's good stuff.

I was dehydrated. I noticed yesterday. I have been drinking a lot of water since yesterday. It's stupid..I know better than to get dehydrated. I am going to try to take in an additional gallon of water a day. And I started adding more taurine. 2-3g at breakfast, lunch, dinner, and pre workout shake.

I haven't had an "on" feeling either. I suppose those comments were misleading. I could tell the PP was kicking in due to the great increases in strength.

I'm not too worried about the fat gain. I'm still pretty vascular looking...can still see veins poking out in the legs, all across the arms, chest, shoulders, etc. I can live with a few extra pounds as long as I gained them from a clean, but elevated caloric intake. If I put it on from excessive fat cals, then I would be pissed to no end.

I appreciate you looking over the log. I've been thinking about PMing you and asking you to look it over because of your experience with PP, but you saved me the trouble.

 

[DBinMD]

Sounds like you didn't take enough taurine with the back symptoms. You're having big time back pumps dude.

Although that may be true, I think he's having bigger issues. From a previous post he mentions "felt like my spine just twisted/slipped right on my ruptured disc (L5,S1). " Maybe that's what you intended, but I just want to make sure we're clear.

DB

 

[celc5]

Although that may be true, I think he's having bigger issues. From a previous post he mentions "felt like my spine just twisted/slipped right on my ruptured disc (L5,S1). " Maybe that's what you intended, but I just want to make sure we're clear.

DB

I agree, that does sound like a seperate issue.

DB, I see quite often that back injuries ON cycle are preceeded by back pumps. Do you have any thoughts on whether or not there is a connection? Maybe in this case, the back pumps somehow made BrMe volnerable to aggravating the old injury?

 

[BrMe86]

When it happened I hadn't had a problem with dehydration. I had only had pumps once or twice, but I did seem a bit stiff...just the typical thing that we all feel from time to time.

It's funny that you mentioned what you did though, because the pumps have been bothersome this week. I do wonder if there was a connection also. I don't know how much the ruptured disc had to do with the problem. Because I haven't had leg pain or any of the other associated problems, I don't think the disc has been aggravated, as those are typical symptoms. I do think I weakened some of those muscles the week before due to rounding out my back. It's ironic that the day I really fixed the problem is the same day that I was injured. Because I had the bad form the week before, I think that the stiffness would have impacted the situation...despite the 5 warm up sets that I did.

 

[DBinMD]

Celc5
Re: I see quite often that back injuries ON cycle are preceded by back pumps.

I’ve never seen that personally. But my experience is limited. Few people I’m friendly with now a days use anabolics. But you may have a point. The added tension in the area may be enough to put you over the top. I think I pulled a bicep tendon last year for similar reasons. ISTM, maybe the stronger anabolics are associated with back pumps so it could be coincidental, too.

BR,

2 things.

I only dead-lift every other week. I got this from some power lifters I used to know. Some only did them when getting ready to compete. I started doing this because for a very long time I was stuck at 405x5. I didn’t mention it because you may not be at that point yet, maybe this might work if you’re still having problems. On the wo’s I don’t do deads I do heavy rows (dumbbells, cables) instead. Even the year I laid off of them, I came back pretty quickly. Not sure why, maybe the heavy back wo’s were enough or maybe my back seems to be my most resilient body part.

The other thing is you mentioned may a future phera/epi cycle. I’m not doing phera again till next year because of the talk of possible heart issues. I just wanted to be clear.

DB

 

[celc5]

I only dead-lift every other week

This is great advice. I think not enough attention is paid to strategizing for on cycle issues regarding exercise choices.

Personally, I structure my whole on cycle routine around "joint friendly" exercise choices. For example, I don't dip, wide grip pullup, or incline bench ON cycle because of mild shoulder issues.

Also, I try eliminate power moves which have aggravated my back. So, I didn't squat, SLDL, or BO row ON cycle either. Of course, I substituted other multi-joint moves such as deep cleans, front squats, and traditional deads which are more "back friendly" for me personally.

The kicker is that I re-added SLDL, BO rows, dips, and squats for my post cycle routine. I think the change in routine with re-adding these power moves really kept my body comp going in the right direction after the cycle without risking joint injury associated with anabolics.

 

[BrMe86]

Also, I try eliminate power moves which have aggravated my back. So, I didn't squat, SLDL, or BO row ON cycle either. Of course, I substituted other multi-joint moves such as deep cleans, front squats, and traditional deads which are more "back friendly" for me personally.

That's pretty interesting. I took the opposite approach. I see where what you're doing makes sense though. A month before the cycle, I was doing:
Mon: Heavy lower
Tue: Light upper
Wed: Break
Thur: Light lower
Fri: Heavy upper
I alternated squats and deads every week on my heavy lower day. And I wasn't doing flat bench press either.

I think during PCT I will switch because I'm pretty well maxed out on my upper body lifts. And my shoulders are killing me from bench press...too wide of a grip. I think if I do in fact run another cycle, I will take your approach. I think that would fit me better also.

DB,
I'm going to wait a couple of months after my PCT before I even think about starting another cycle. I want to have blood work done and get a complete physical. I'm due for that anyway, I believe. Was the talk of heart troubles personal or a common problem with phera?

 

[BrMe86]

Day 27

Bench - 5X5 200
Chest supported T-Bar Rows - 5X5 105
Tricep work

Weight - 177.5

I overtrained at some point this week. I need the weekend off. Felt like **** the second half of the week. I didn't get enough sleep the last two nights...about 6 hours each night. That won't happen again. On a good note, hit 200 on my 5X5 (bench). Maybe 205 by next Friday. Next Sat is the last day of the cycle if I don't cut it short before then.

 

[celc5]

I crashed somewhere around week 4 myself. I took 3 days off per PistonPump's advice and rocked out the last week. Might be something to consider.

Here's the heart controversy thread http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/66053-pheraplex-heart.html

 

[BrMe86]

Day 30

Squats - 3X8 135, 185, 185
Bench - WU, 1X5 205
Flat DB press - 3X8 75, 80, 80
Superset
Leg press - 3X8 225, 315, 365
Upright rows - 3X8 95

Abs

BW - 177

Squats felt good. I don't think I'll do them for the rest of the week though. I warmed up for flat DB press doing flat bench. I just wanted to do a PR. 205 is the most I have ever bench pressed, so...PR. I know warming up doing flat bench is NOT the equivalent of warming up doing flat DB press, but...it worked. I won't go so heavy again on leg press the rest of this week either.

To sum up the workout...I think I did a bunch of stupid **** and got away with it. Lucky. I am going to be more careful from now on.

 

[BrMe86]

It has been 7 weeks since my last deload. I guess I'm about due for one. The thing is, I have done practically no lower body work for two and half weeks now. So I don't know that I really need a deload. I'm not sure that the aggregate strain on my CNS over the past few weeks warrants it. I think I am going to be out of town all of next week...spring break. Going to Florida. I might try to find a gym while I'm down there. I am pretty well maxed out on my upper body lifts. I've heard that it's common to have gains through post cycle therapy also, so I don't want to just deload during a prime period. I think that it really just depends on how I feel and if I'm able to make it to the gym. Sorry for the cluster ****ed thoughts there. I was just curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are about it.

I am going to end my cycle Friday.

 

[DBinMD]

Re: Phera and the heart, Celc5 (thanks, Celc) answered the question for me. More of a theory/opinion, but I think caution is needed. My cardio took a hit at the end, but I think it’s related to the new blood pressure meds I’m on. My wife has similar complaints (trouble getting the heart rate up). I’ve halved the dose, (BP is still good) and my cardio is mostly back. I’m due to see the doc the end of the month, anyway.

Re: Warming up. When starting a different exercise for the same body part, I usually start out with 10-12 reps, but 8 isn’t bad. You should be pretty warmed up by the benches anyway. Good work, an increase of 25 lbs. :cheers:

You feel you‘ve maxed out on upper body, and you probably are. I think stopping on Friday (day 35) is a good idea. I wouldn’t count on continuing the gains while on post cycle therapy. As I said previously, I felt mopey for about 3 weeks while on PCT after my phera/epi cycle. I caught a mild cold, too, so that was part of it. I would say don’t worry about increasing the upper body weights next week (or even this week). The worst thing you could do is over train at this time. Just do what you need in order to maintain what you have and enjoy the week and, hopefully come back recharged. Personally, that’s what I’m doing. It’s Lent, I’ve decided to concentrate on other things until Easter.

If I’m wrong and your upper body strength increases, what’s the worst that could happen? You’d do 5x6 reps at 200.

DB

 

[BrMe86]

Thanks DB. That is what I was hoping to hear.

 

[BrMe86]

Itchy/sensitive nips today. I'm not really planning on making any big gains between now and Friday. The potential sides aren't worth the negligible gains that I would make, so I'm starting PCT tomorrow.

 

[celc5]

Itchy/sensitive nips today. I'm not really planning on making any big gains between now and Friday. The potential sides aren't worth the negligible gains that I would make, so I'm starting post cycle therapy tomorrow.

Just a quick tip, IF you are using taurine, continue to do so for the first 5-8 days of post cycle. I stopped and got horrific back pumps by the second day of post cycle. Just a suggestion.

Excellent decision on cutting the cycle a few days short. I get the impression that everyone's body gives them an instinct on when it's just simply had enough. Great cycle and occasionally update us on your post cycle progress too :clap2:

 

[dkkon1]

Hey man 12lbs awesome job.

 

[BrMe86]

Will do. Sorry I was so wishy washy on the end date of the cycle. It's been a learning experience. The back pumps have gone away since I have become hydrated. I have only been taking the taurine in my PWO shakes. I am going to keep the journal all the way through PCT.

I am going to start taking the usual supplements tomorrow:
Pre workout:
2g taurine
5g creatine monohydrate
3g beta alanine
4g citrulline malate
20g malto/dextrose
15g whey isolate

PWO
60g protein
6-7g BCAAs
40-60g malto/dextrose
5g creatine mono
2g taurine

The taurine, BCAAs, and casein shake at night will be an every day thing. I'll do the creatine every day for 2 weeks...10g on workout days and 5g the other days, and after that just the 10g on workout days. Macros will be the same, but I'm going to take the calories down to 3000ish, then increase from there if necessary. I keep a journal on BB.net, so it's nothing to post it on here also.

 

[DBinMD]

Sorry I was so wishy washy on the end date of the cycle.

It's not wishy washy, I would say "flexible". 28 days is a reasonable length. IMO, 35 days is pushing it a little. You followed your brain and instincts to say stop when the signs said so.

You didn't mention anything about the Nolva.

 

[celc5]

You didn't mention anything about the Nolva.

DBinMD, we have similar opinions on just about all the issues discussed so far :cheers:

There's 2 cases of SUPPOSED delayed gyno that have popped up after p-plex cycles here on AM that I am aware of. (I say "supposed" because I think there's too much gyno talk every time someone gets an imaginary tingle here and there). Anyway, I agree with DBin that a little bit of Nolva couldn't hurt in terms of prevention. I'm thinking something like 20/20/10/10 would suffice.

Personally, I'd run an otc AI alongside at a moderate dose. I'd either start it day 1 of post cycle and run it for 6 weeks... OR start it week 2 or 3 to run it for 4 weeks. AI strategies will vary drastically so this is just one option and there's probably no conclusively correct way to go.

 

[BrMe86]

I started the nolva at 40mg last night. I was planning on running 40/30/20/10. Would 20/20/10/10 really be sufficient? I never went above 30mg of PP and the cycle was a little over 4 weeks, so I suppose 40/30/20/10 could be more than is necessary. What about 30/20/20/10? I'm probably over thinking it, but I just haven't heard of many people going that low.

I'm also taking Activate Extreme...2 pills 3 times a day for 3 weeks, then testostro grow 2 hp the fourth week (free samples).

I think I will start an AI at the end of week 2. It's something that I don't know a lot about. I understand it and all, I just haven't researched it extensively. I didn't want to run it inversely to the SERM for four weeks. I like how it will end up running two weeks after the SERM. Would you keep the dosage static or ramp it up inversely to the SERM?

And I'll still be taking all of the other supps...cycle support, multi vitamin, fish oil, gluc/chon/msm, etc.

 

[celc5]

My preference for lower serm dosing is not popular opinion. That's something you will have to decide for yourself.

I'm 3 weeks into post cycle with 1/2 the popular torem dosing and I'm doing just fine (of course, no bloodwork until I'm completely done with post cycle so it's just an opinion for now that I am "fine")

If you decide to run the low dose serm, I'd add in the AI sooner. With your serm dosing plan, day 15 should be fine.

Let's say you start your AI on day 15 of post cycle. I'd say something like 500mg 6oxo, 200mg 6brom, 200mg TD formestane, or 2-3 caps Novedex would be a ballpark dosage to start. Run it at your "sweet spot" dosage for 2 weeks. Then start a systematic taper for 2 final weeks.

There's a handful of guys here on AM that don't add AI until week 3 of post cycle and they seem to do just fine. Just a side note, this stategy is ALMOST exactly like AI inverse to serm theory, just think about it.

 

[DBinMD]

Celc5,

I’m glad we’re in agreement for the most part. I don’t like giving out misinformation.

BR,

I don’t feel all that qualified to comment much on PCT. I’m still learning about it; this was my first using a SERM (ended Monday). Since I don’t know, I stuck with conventional wisdom of 40/40/20/20 for Nolva. Yesterday I started with a 2 doses (4 is the max dose) of Hyperdrol (6-bromo); next week I’ll end it with 1 dose. I don’t know what to tell you. You’re original plan of 40/30/20/10 is somewhere in between the conventional and 20/20/10/10 from Celc5. So maybe you should just stick to your plan. What ever you decide, you won't get any criticism from me.

DB

 

[BrMe86]

Day 2 of PCT

Military Press - 5X5 135, 135, 135, 135, 145
Pull ups - 5X6 BW (semi wide)
Lat pulls - 3X8 135, 150, 165 (very wide)
Leg press - 4X10 200
EZ Bar Curls - 4X8 85 (wide grip)
Hyper extensions
Abs

Weight - 175

Don't know why I lost 2.5 lbs. Calories fell to around 2800 for a couple of days. I am going to get them back over 3000 for a while. Not too worried about it. Protein has still been high. My strength is still up. Today's workout was great. I was able to do more pullups than usual...I actually did the lat pulls before pull ups. The lat pulls weren't heavy...just super slow controlled reps with a squeeze/hold at the bottom.

Looking forward to Florida. Leaving this Sunday. It's spring break, so I'll get to do my favorite things:
1. Fish
2. Chase girls
3. Drink beer (one or two every couple of days)
I have had one beer during the entire cycle. I miss it. I would only be able to progress with pullups and military press next week, so it won't be a total loss. I ****ing hate not making it to the gym though.

 

[BrMe86]

Day 4 of PCT

Bench press - 2X8, 1X6 185, 195, 205
CH Incline bench - 3X8 135
Standing MP - 3X8 105
Leg Extensions - 3X8 stack -2 plates
Hack squats - 3X8 135, 185, 195

Weight - 178

Worked out at a different gym...benches were different. If I had rested more, I would have hit 205 for 8 reps instead of 6. Weird workout...first time I've gone to the gym without a plan in +6 months. I felt lost.

Libido seems to be a little higher the past couple of days. All of the lethargy is gone although I'm still lazy. I think I was maybe overtraining a little during cycle...doing too much volume. Since I'm back in "normal" mode, I feel like I'm progressing again. I feel stronger and I think I am looking bigger. And the 2.5lbs I was missing were water, I think.

 

[DBinMD]

Day 4 of PCT

I would have hit 205 for 8 reps instead of 6. Weird workout...first time I've gone to the gym without a plan in +6 months. I felt lost.

And the 2.5lbs I was missing were water, I think.

You're probably right about the water weight. Continuing to improve on the benches is really good. :thumbsup:

 

[silverSurfer]

Great results, congrats!

Please keep posting - I am very interested in post PCT weight retention.