[DBinMD]

Originally Posted by celc5

I say stay cautious with cutting cals and adding cardio at this point. This is that "gray zone" where it's tough to keep lean mass gains.

Also, if you add your AI and cort control (I used Hyperdrol and Lean Extreme this time), you're bodyfat will start to drop a bit and you'll harden up.

Yeah, I'll second everything Celc said.

[BrMe86]

Thanks DB. It has been absolutely awesome getting this feedback from you and Celc. It is much appreciated. The cycle wouldn't have been as good without you guys...(quality AND peace of mind)

Monday 3/24 - Day 21 of PCT
Standing shoulder press - 3X8 115
Squats - 3X8 205
Bench Press - ???

I went home for the weekend. Hate hate hate the bench there. My feet barely reach the floor when doing bench press and I'm 5'9". Impossible to get any kind of leverage. I went through my warmup and did a lot of singles & doubles with 185 and 190. It felt more like 210-215.

[BrMe86]

My weight/size has been the pretty much the same. If I have lost any weight, then it hasn't been more than 2 lbs. Strength is still up. Workouts are great...not quite the same as when I was on cycle...now I feel a little more human. (soreness, stress, longer recovery) Overall, I haven't had much of a change. It's hard to gauge if I've been progressing the past two weeks because I've had an irregular routine, but I think I'm doing fine. I will have a long write up at the end of my first post when the cycle is over.

[BrMe86]

Bench press - 1X6, 1X8, 1X6 185
Pull ups - 2X7
Lat pulls - 1X8 120, 2X8 135
Flat DB press - 2X8 70, 75
Squats - 3X12 205, 225, 245
Arnolds - 3X8 55
Deadlifts - 1X8 225

Weight - 173

I realized today that I have lost a lot of strength. Inconsistency with my workout schedule is why. Pisses me off...I am going to make it to the gym no matter what from now on...even if it means getting up at 5:30 and going. I hope I will gain the strength back quickly. The diet has been mediocre when I'm away from home, but it's spot on when I'm here.

I combined Wednesday's workout with Friday. Super high volume for me. I ate decently...1.5 cups of whole grain cereal, and 1/3 of a cup of yogurt an hour before going to the gym. Then I had an electrolyte drink with 10g of BCAAs mixed in while I worked out. Then a shake with 50g of protein and 80g of sugar right after. Then some chicken 30 min later. And I will have steak, pasta, and broccoli in an hour. And eat twice more after that. Can't keep losing strength and weight like this...

[BrMe86]

**** you.

Ok, now that that's out of the way I'll respond to the rest of your comments.

I have no doubt that I'm in better shape than yourself. Pound for pound, at my height, I have only met a couple of people in my life that are in better shape. I'm talking about outside of the weight room also. At 175lbs, is a 385lb deadlift, 365lb squat, 235lb bench press, 175lb shoulder press, and a sub 6 minute mile lousy shape?

I agree 100%. I don't see myself running another cycle for a long time. It wasn't worth the time, money, and possible long term side effects IMO.

I have a great attitude. I had put on a little over 25lbs naturally before starting the cycle. My diet, training, and dedication are great. Who are you to say who is allowed or not allowed to run a cycle of a PH?

That's one of the reasons I decided to run the cycle. My bench press is horrible. I've been plagued with shoulder and back problems which is why my numbers aren't higher.

What was your point in sending the ill-prepared message, you arrogant prick?

This really pissed me off...just got this message and responded to it. So if anyone else is reading the log and having the same thoughts as this guy, hopefully this will address some of your concerns.

[DBinMD]

Originally Posted by BrMe86

Can't keep losing strength and weight like this...

No you can't. I'm not sure why I missed the post regarding vitamin C for cortisol. While it's probably a good thing to take, I haven't found it particularly useful for gaining or maintaining strength. Maybe continue go with a better cortisol control for the entire 4 weeks, maybe taper off on weeks 4,5 and 6, and keep your BCAA's a little higher, too.

Hopefully, your weight and strength will level off or maybe rebound some when you get consistant. It's unlikely you'll keep all of it, else everyone here would look like pro's. But if you're a hard gainer, anything that goes wrong is gonna cause you to loose especially during PCT. I lost some weight/strength at the beginning of mine but gained enough back to make me happy. I made a few of my own mistakes, I'm still learning, too.

[Brolic]

Any Sides?

[DBinMD]

Originally Posted by Brolic

Any Sides?

I'm not sure which your asking about? With the PCT (plenty, in general) or anything in particular?

[celc5]

BrMe,
I change EVERY SINGLE EXERCISE in pct. Nothing is the same. Strength loss is inevidable in post cycle and seeing numbers drop can be psychologically detrimental. I'd take a day or 2 off to completely revamp your routine. If you'd like, post your on-cycle split (number or sets and reps, but not weights) and I'd be glad to help point you in the right direction.

Was that a pm? I'm a prick and wouldn't hesitate to call someone out if their attitude and cycle plan were poor. Unless there's something I missed between you and the irritated person, it looks uncalled for. I thought you ran a nice cycle.

I had a dislocated shoulder and reconstructed elbow so those injuries effect my bench drastically and I rarely work with more than 220. If you just look at that number, most would think I was out of shape until they saw me rep out with 5 plates on squats and deadlifts. In one ear and out the other my friend

[BrMe86]

Thanks Celc. Yeah, that was a PM. Oh well.
On cycle routine:
Mon
Squats - 5X5 (same weight)
Bench - 5X5
Rows - 5X5
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Wed
Deadlifts - 5X3
Squats @ 80% - 5X5
Pull ups - 5X5
Shoulder press - 5X5
Biceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Fri
Squats - 5X5 (ramp weight)
Bench - 5X5
Rows - 5X5
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Here is my new workout that I started...a week or two ago:
Mon
Military press - 3X8
Flat DB press - 3X8
Squats - 4X8
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Wed
Pull ups - 3Xmax
Lat Pulls - 3X8
Shrugs - 3X10
Deadlifts - 4X8
Biceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

Fri
Bench press - 3X8
Arnolds - 3X8
Rows - 4X8
Squats - 3X12
Triceps (1 exercise @ 3X8)

I'm still in the process of getting things figured out. I am going to change some of the exercises still, I think. The biggest change has been rep ranges, obviously. What would you recommend that I do different?

[celc5]

A few fun ideas would go like this:

1) 5/10/15 split
3sets of 5
3 sets of 10
3 sets of 15

Moves at 5 & 10 are compound, isolation at 15.

2) 8/12 split
Compound move at 8
Isolation move at 12
*2 bodyparts per day

3) HST in it's strictest sense

4) Light/Heavy
M All push x 15
T All pull x 15
Th All push x 8
F All pull x 8

*push= chest, shoulders, tris, quads, calves
*pull=back, lats, hams, core

You seem to have heavy influence from 5x5 and maybe HIT?Both seem to lack a "fun" element though IMO. The exercise choice is uncreative so to speak. Get yourself a good pump at the end of the routine to boost morale. Don't let the post cycle blues win.

[BrMe86]

Yeah, I liked the 5X5. The gains that I have gotten from it have been great. That's why I decided to change the rep ranges. I thought I could still squeeze a little out of it. The other program that I alternate with is the light/heavy. So many people just change programs as soon as they slow down. Instead of changing exercises, rep ranges, frequency, etc. I don't want to be one of those people. That said, I agree...I think I'm close to the point where I need to change for at least a little while. I will be able to progress with bench press and rows for probably another week. And all of the other lifts I should be able to progress with for at least two weeks. So I'll probably change sometime next week or start the following week with the light/heavy. I love the big compound lifts. I might try doing some olympic style lifts.

[SpargelJanusz]

I never was nor am I a prick. And hopefully won't become one. As I wrote in the PM, I just find it amazing how steroids seem to become the preferred route for people who have very average stats, and should have quite some potential as naturals. What's equally amazing is how
no one seemed to comment on this issue - as if it's totally o.k. to juice on this level.

And I stand by what I said - this is a lousy attitude, nothing more. Came I across as arrogant? Hardly, I think, as
described myself as "mediocrly built" in another PM - and knowing my genes, I will never have a superb physique. I also am quite old,
as you see on my photo.

Are you guys realizing that Pheraplex is a designer roid with little or no research about long-term, damaging effects?
Are you really so naive to think that PCT is the magic method that makes steroids comparable to vitamin pills in their potential danger?

I am waiting for the flatbench 1RM 170 lbs bencher who will log his first cycle here, it's probably only a matter of time.
I hope he has his PCT worked out

[Brolic]

Side Effects Yet?

[celc5]

No one commented on the user choosing to run a cycle in a negative manner, as you suggest we should, because he had a well thought out plan. He chose informed dosage, ran a proper PCT, and has a solid base with his workout routine and diet.

The type of flaming you just did (both privately AND publicly now) is reserved for over-zealous persons with dangerous and uninformed plans.

Yes we're all aware that phera is a designer steriod and it's rediculous to suggest that we believe that post cycle therapy makes it as safe as vitamins. That sounds like anti-steroid propaganda that you read in a newspaper article or heard on the 11 o'clock news.

Your ignorant posts show me that everyone in this thread is more educated on the topic than you so butt out you old out of shape man. I hope you're embarrassed that you have nothing better to do than single someone out who is using a good plan with a legal compound.

[SpargelJanusz]

Originally Posted by celc5

No one commented on the user choosing to run a cycle in a negative manner, as you suggest we should, because he had a well thought out plan. He chose informed dosage, ran a proper PCT, and has a solid base with his workout routine and diet.

The type of flaming you just did (both privately AND publicly now) is reserved for over-zealous persons with dangerous and uninformed plans.

Yes we're all aware that phera is a designer steriod and it's rediculous to suggest that we believe that post cycle therapy makes it as safe as vitamins. That sounds like anti-steroid propaganda that you read in a newspaper article or heard on the 11 o'clock news.

Your ignorant posts show me that everyone in this thread is more educated on the topic than you so butt out you old out of shape man. I hope you're embarrassed that you have nothing better to do than single someone out who is using a good plan with a legal compound.

I'm heavily embarassed
Yes, the good plan with the LEGAL compound really should have prohibited me from saying most basic stuff. (I mean, it being legal, there cannot be to much harm to it, can it)
I'm sorry for my anti-steroid propaganda, you guys (being professors, PhD in biology, medicine etc) know your stuff.

So hail to all future 5 x 180lbs benchers who have a good plan - juice! And juice some more!

And ignore out-of-shape old men like me who are ignorant and dare to criticize what is currently going on in gyms and encouraged in certain threads.