[BrMe86]

Also, I try eliminate power moves which have aggravated my back. So, I didn't squat, SLDL, or BO row ON cycle either. Of course, I substituted other multi-joint moves such as deep cleans, front squats, and traditional deads which are more "back friendly" for me personally.

That's pretty interesting. I took the opposite approach. I see where what you're doing makes sense though. A month before the cycle, I was doing:
Mon: Heavy lower
Tue: Light upper
Wed: Break
Thur: Light lower
Fri: Heavy upper
I alternated squats and deads every week on my heavy lower day. And I wasn't doing flat bench press either.

I think during PCT I will switch because I'm pretty well maxed out on my upper body lifts. And my shoulders are killing me from bench press...too wide of a grip. I think if I do in fact run another cycle, I will take your approach. I think that would fit me better also.

DB,
I'm going to wait a couple of months after my PCT before I even think about starting another cycle. I want to have blood work done and get a complete physical. I'm due for that anyway, I believe. Was the talk of heart troubles personal or a common problem with phera?

[BrMe86]

Day 27

Bench - 5X5 200
Chest supported T-Bar Rows - 5X5 105
Tricep work

Weight - 177.5

I overtrained at some point this week. I need the weekend off. Felt like **** the second half of the week. I didn't get enough sleep the last two nights...about 6 hours each night. That won't happen again. On a good note, hit 200 on my 5X5 (bench). Maybe 205 by next Friday. Next Sat is the last day of the cycle if I don't cut it short before then.

[celc5]

I crashed somewhere around week 4 myself. I took 3 days off per PistonPump's advice and rocked out the last week. Might be something to consider.

Here's the heart controversy thread Pheraplex and the heart

[BrMe86]

Day 30

Squats - 3X8 135, 185, 185
Bench - WU, 1X5 205
Flat DB press - 3X8 75, 80, 80
Superset
Leg press - 3X8 225, 315, 365
Upright rows - 3X8 95

Abs

BW - 177

Squats felt good. I don't think I'll do them for the rest of the week though. I warmed up for flat DB press doing flat bench. I just wanted to do a PR. 205 is the most I have ever bench pressed, so...PR. I know warming up doing flat bench is NOT the equivalent of warming up doing flat DB press, but...it worked. I won't go so heavy again on leg press the rest of this week either.

To sum up the workout...I think I did a bunch of stupid **** and got away with it. Lucky. I am going to be more careful from now on.

[BrMe86]

It has been 7 weeks since my last deload. I guess I'm about due for one. The thing is, I have done practically no lower body work for two and half weeks now. So I don't know that I really need a deload. I'm not sure that the aggregate strain on my CNS over the past few weeks warrants it. I think I am going to be out of town all of next week...spring break. Going to Florida. I might try to find a gym while I'm down there. I am pretty well maxed out on my upper body lifts. I've heard that it's common to have gains through post cycle therapy also, so I don't want to just deload during a prime period. I think that it really just depends on how I feel and if I'm able to make it to the gym. Sorry for the cluster ****ed thoughts there. I was just curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are about it.

I am going to end my cycle Friday.

[DBinMD]

Re: Phera and the heart, Celc5 (thanks, Celc) answered the question for me. More of a theory/opinion, but I think caution is needed. My cardio took a hit at the end, but I think it’s related to the new blood pressure meds I’m on. My wife has similar complaints (trouble getting the heart rate up). I’ve halved the dose, (BP is still good) and my cardio is mostly back. I’m due to see the doc the end of the month, anyway.

Re: Warming up. When starting a different exercise for the same body part, I usually start out with 10-12 reps, but 8 isn’t bad. You should be pretty warmed up by the benches anyway. Good work, an increase of 25 lbs.

You feel you‘ve maxed out on upper body, and you probably are. I think stopping on Friday (day 35) is a good idea. I wouldn’t count on continuing the gains while on post cycle therapy. As I said previously, I felt mopey for about 3 weeks while on PCT after my phera/epi cycle. I caught a mild cold, too, so that was part of it. I would say don’t worry about increasing the upper body weights next week (or even this week). The worst thing you could do is over train at this time. Just do what you need in order to maintain what you have and enjoy the week and, hopefully come back recharged. Personally, that’s what I’m doing. It’s Lent, I’ve decided to concentrate on other things until Easter.

If I’m wrong and your upper body strength increases, what’s the worst that could happen? You’d do 5x6 reps at 200.

DB

[BrMe86]

Thanks DB. That is what I was hoping to hear.

[BrMe86]

Itchy/sensitive nips today. I'm not really planning on making any big gains between now and Friday. The potential sides aren't worth the negligible gains that I would make, so I'm starting PCT tomorrow.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by BrMe86

Itchy/sensitive nips today. I'm not really planning on making any big gains between now and Friday. The potential sides aren't worth the negligible gains that I would make, so I'm starting post cycle therapy tomorrow.

Just a quick tip, IF you are using taurine, continue to do so for the first 5-8 days of post cycle. I stopped and got horrific back pumps by the second day of post cycle. Just a suggestion.

Excellent decision on cutting the cycle a few days short. I get the impression that everyone's body gives them an instinct on when it's just simply had enough. Great cycle and occasionally update us on your post cycle progress too

[dkkon1]

Hey man 12lbs awesome job.

[BrMe86]

Will do. Sorry I was so wishy washy on the end date of the cycle. It's been a learning experience. The back pumps have gone away since I have become hydrated. I have only been taking the taurine in my PWO shakes. I am going to keep the journal all the way through PCT.

I am going to start taking the usual supplements tomorrow:
Pre workout:
2g taurine
5g creatine monohydrate
3g beta alanine
4g citrulline malate
20g malto/dextrose
15g whey isolate

PWO
60g protein
6-7g BCAAs
40-60g malto/dextrose
5g creatine mono
2g taurine

The taurine, BCAAs, and casein shake at night will be an every day thing. I'll do the creatine every day for 2 weeks...10g on workout days and 5g the other days, and after that just the 10g on workout days. Macros will be the same, but I'm going to take the calories down to 3000ish, then increase from there if necessary. I keep a journal on BB.net, so it's nothing to post it on here also.

[DBinMD]

Originally Posted by BrMe86

Sorry I was so wishy washy on the end date of the cycle.

It's not wishy washy, I would say "flexible". 28 days is a reasonable length. IMO, 35 days is pushing it a little. You followed your brain and instincts to say stop when the signs said so.

You didn't mention anything about the Nolva.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by DBinMD

You didn't mention anything about the Nolva.

DBinMD, we have similar opinions on just about all the issues discussed so far

There's 2 cases of SUPPOSED delayed gyno that have popped up after p-plex cycles here on AM that I am aware of. (I say "supposed" because I think there's too much gyno talk every time someone gets an imaginary tingle here and there). Anyway, I agree with DBin that a little bit of Nolva couldn't hurt in terms of prevention. I'm thinking something like 20/20/10/10 would suffice.

Personally, I'd run an otc AI alongside at a moderate dose. I'd either start it day 1 of post cycle and run it for 6 weeks... OR start it week 2 or 3 to run it for 4 weeks. AI strategies will vary drastically so this is just one option and there's probably no conclusively correct way to go.

[BrMe86]

I started the nolva at 40mg last night. I was planning on running 40/30/20/10. Would 20/20/10/10 really be sufficient? I never went above 30mg of PP and the cycle was a little over 4 weeks, so I suppose 40/30/20/10 could be more than is necessary. What about 30/20/20/10? I'm probably over thinking it, but I just haven't heard of many people going that low.

I'm also taking Activate Extreme...2 pills 3 times a day for 3 weeks, then testostro grow 2 hp the fourth week (free samples).

I think I will start an AI at the end of week 2. It's something that I don't know a lot about. I understand it and all, I just haven't researched it extensively. I didn't want to run it inversely to the SERM for four weeks. I like how it will end up running two weeks after the SERM. Would you keep the dosage static or ramp it up inversely to the SERM?

And I'll still be taking all of the other supps...cycle support, multi vitamin, fish oil, gluc/chon/msm, etc.

[celc5]

My preference for lower serm dosing is not popular opinion. That's something you will have to decide for yourself.

I'm 3 weeks into post cycle with 1/2 the popular torem dosing and I'm doing just fine (of course, no bloodwork until I'm completely done with post cycle so it's just an opinion for now that I am "fine")

If you decide to run the low dose serm, I'd add in the AI sooner. With your serm dosing plan, day 15 should be fine.

Let's say you start your AI on day 15 of post cycle. I'd say something like 500mg 6oxo, 200mg 6brom, 200mg TD formestane, or 2-3 caps Novedex would be a ballpark dosage to start. Run it at your "sweet spot" dosage for 2 weeks. Then start a systematic taper for 2 final weeks.

There's a handful of guys here on AM that don't add AI until week 3 of post cycle and they seem to do just fine. Just a side note, this stategy is ALMOST exactly like AI inverse to serm theory, just think about it.

[DBinMD]

Celc5,

I’m glad we’re in agreement for the most part. I don’t like giving out misinformation.

BR,

I don’t feel all that qualified to comment much on PCT. I’m still learning about it; this was my first using a SERM (ended Monday). Since I don’t know, I stuck with conventional wisdom of 40/40/20/20 for Nolva. Yesterday I started with a 2 doses (4 is the max dose) of Hyperdrol (6-bromo); next week I’ll end it with 1 dose. I don’t know what to tell you. You’re original plan of 40/30/20/10 is somewhere in between the conventional and 20/20/10/10 from Celc5. So maybe you should just stick to your plan. What ever you decide, you won't get any criticism from me.

DB

[BrMe86]

Day 2 of PCT

Military Press - 5X5 135, 135, 135, 135, 145
Pull ups - 5X6 BW (semi wide)
Lat pulls - 3X8 135, 150, 165 (very wide)
Leg press - 4X10 200
EZ Bar Curls - 4X8 85 (wide grip)
Hyper extensions
Abs

Weight - 175

Don't know why I lost 2.5 lbs. Calories fell to around 2800 for a couple of days. I am going to get them back over 3000 for a while. Not too worried about it. Protein has still been high. My strength is still up. Today's workout was great. I was able to do more pullups than usual...I actually did the lat pulls before pull ups. The lat pulls weren't heavy...just super slow controlled reps with a squeeze/hold at the bottom.

Looking forward to Florida. Leaving this Sunday. It's spring break, so I'll get to do my favorite things:
1. Fish
2. Chase girls
3. Drink beer (one or two every couple of days)
I have had one beer during the entire cycle. I miss it. I would only be able to progress with pullups and military press next week, so it won't be a total loss. I ****ing hate not making it to the gym though.