[rockyt]

So I gave it a shot to reduce my gyno, but by the end of week 4 my tits started hurting, and my gyno got worse. Guess will have to go under knife...

I did gain about 6 solid pounds and some nice inches that I'd like to keep. Any suggestions to help keep the gains would be great!

Here was my cycle, where did i go wrong?

Week 1: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 2: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 3: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 4: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX (4caps of 530mg 3 x ed)

Week 5: Nolvadex 40mg, Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 6: Nolvadex 30mg,Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 7: Nolvadex 20mg, Cissus (2x ed) Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 8: Nolvadex 10mg, Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

[beebab]

40 mg of Epi for 4 whole weeks is a lot. maybe you should have steadily ramped up the dose?

[Xodus]

Originally Posted by rockyt

So I gave it a shot to reduce my gyno, but by the end of week 4 my tits started hurting, and my gyno got worse. Guess will have to go under knife...

I did gain about 6 solid pounds and some nice inches that I'd like to keep. Any suggestions to help keep the gains would be great!

Here was my cycle, where did i go wrong?

Week 1: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 2: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 3: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed)

Week 4: 40mg (2x ed) of Epistane; Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX (4caps of 530mg 3 x ed)

Week 5: Nolvadex 40mg, Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 6: Nolvadex 30mg,Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 7: Nolvadex 20mg, Cissus (2x ed) Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

Week 8: Nolvadex 10mg, Cissus (2x ed); Mass FX, ATD, Powerfull, CEE/AAKG

I think the 'gyno-reducing' properties of Epi are in the 20mg range, not 40mg.

[ministeroweight]

Were you doing 40mg 2x per day like it states or throughout the day? The way I read it is 40mg 2x a day.

[drksun]

Originally Posted by ministeroweight

Were you doing 40mg 2x per day like it states or throughout the day? The way I read it is 40mg 2x a day.

80mg of epi! thats way too much, i took 30mg 3 times a week and got results.

[Ziricote]

Way too much Epi and I'm a little suspicious of Mass FX but I'll leave that for others to decide. You don't give the doses of your PCT supplements, what where the doses?

[pistonpump]

Originally Posted by drksun

80mg of epi! thats way too much, i took 30mg 3 times a week and got results.

when are you going to learn? you arent supposed to be posting in this forum...


Mark one down for the only one of its kind...
IBE Epistane


i had reduction with epidrol and i used up to 80mg ed.

[neoborn]

I personally don't remember seeing anything in the Epistane FAQ about megadosing Epistane to get rid of gyno.

From what I am understanding you should not mess with PH / anabolic steroids if you are gyno sensitive in the first place but what do I know.

I would suggest on new findings to have followed something like this:

================================================== ====
Most Importantly!

No Excuses & No ***** ***: A Stupid People's Guide to PCT

SERM + P.C.T Guide

Now please, anyone is free to discuss this and tell me I've totally got it wrong or need to add something. Now with that said:

Bloodwork! I cannot / we cannot say this enough that it is highly recommended to get bloodwork so you know how to run your PCT and WHAT you need to run on your PCT.

1. SERM - Torem, Ralox, Nolvadex etc

Example Torem Dosing: - As per Interlocutor
Day 1-5 = 120mg Torm
Day 6-21 = 60mg Torm
Day 22-28 = 30mg Torm

You should monitor this carefully and will most likely bounce back rather quickly with this SERM as per reports given by experienced users on the board. Please someone let me know if this is overkill for Torem

Example Nolva Dosing:
Wk1: 40,40,40,20,20,20,20
Wk2: 20mg everyday
Wk3: 10mg everyday
Wk4: 10mg everyday

I am not sure why anyone would go above these dosages, as per Dinoii, as the large body of studies / material backs up dosages no more than 40mg and mainly focuses on 20mg / 10mg dosage schemes. More is not better

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

NON-SERM + P.C.T Guide

1. Non SERM - Post Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain(Recommended)

2. Cycle Support - Cycle Support(Highly Recommended), Liver Longer, Perfect Cycle, Liv52, NAC, SAMe, Advanced PCT.

3. AI - Formestane(Highly Recommended), Dermacrine Sustain, 6-OXO / Androstenetrione.

4. Anti-Cort - X-Lean, Retain 2, Lean Xtreme, 11-OxO, Abliderate (8oz), B-Androstenetriol

5. Test Booster - I have heard good things on the following: Dermacrine Sustain, Drive, T-Force, Activate(original).

All of the products and protocols above are open to discussion. This is not a hard and fast list but a guide to help.

With that said Epistane style products on a non extreme usage style cycle are going to use a less extreme PCT. Better not to have huge hormonal swinging in either direction. Calm, steady and relative therapy is recommended.

Things To Note

1. You will most likely want to run your AI (Formestane) for a month or so after finishing your PCT therapy to make sure you experience no estrogen rebound / flooding. If you run your PCT for four weeks, as you ramp down on your SERM etc ramp up on your Formestane / AI so, to as keep your estrogen under control. There has been talk of SERMs actually exacerbating this problem due to kicking test up too high then *boom!* man boobs!

2. Once done your PCT, and AI time ramp it down slowly until about one month after PCT


3. Know what gyno is and the symptoms of gyno: @@@ Gyno Questions - Please Read This First @@@ - Bodybuilding.com Forums
================================================== ==

[Xodus]

Originally Posted by drksun

80mg of epi! thats way too much, i took 30mg 3 times a week and got results.

I read that as 40mg total, dosed 2x/day, not 40mg/2x/day.

[Ziricote]

Originally Posted by Xodus

I read that as 40mg total, dosed 2x/day, not 40mg/2x/day.

Yeah I see it now, in that case the dosing is okay.

[Al Shades]

I've noticed that the sides for epi seem to start appearing at the 40 mg mark. Is this consistent with other people's observations?

[neoborn]

I've been doing a 40mg pulse with no sides at all. I definitely would say that it depends on what sensitivities you / people are prone to but yes 40mg plus seems to be where it starts.

I think there is ALOT to be added in here as you never know what people are doing or not doing in addition to how much of a kitchen sink approach they are using.