[Gutterpump]

I'm currently finishing up a cut (aiming for 10%bf) and am looking towards a future lean bulk this fall either October or November, but leaning towards November now. This will be my first bulking cycle and I am open to a few different paths that I've been thinking of following. This may also be my first experience with pins, but I would almost rather go this route than try substances like superdrol, etc. Epi/PP may be the most potent PS I think I am willing to try.

First some history:

Past cycle history, (my first cycle)

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/post-...ated-post.html

Halo/Zol/Ergo
T3/abluterol

Cut to about 15% bf on that, aiming to get to around 10% now while on t3+clen before starting my lean bulker.

Here are my current options that I've been trying to decide between:

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Epistane (4-6weeks) 10/20/40/40/40..(ramping to 40 in first week)
TD Formestane throughout, possibly with TD Sustain.
ZOL (I loved this and had little to no sides first time using it. Thinking of using for last 2-3weeks @ 150-200mg ed)

Torem + Derrmacrine Sustain for PCT

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Primo Enan (5-600mg - 10 weeks)
Var (30-50mg - could swap Var for Epi 40mg to save $, time on would depends on amnt I want to spend)
ZOL (again, thinking it would be a nice addition, with low sides - 150-200mg - not sure how a PH would fare with the above though)
TD Sustain

Torem + Derrmacrine Sustain for PCT

------------------------------------------------

Test Enan (500mg - 250x2 for 10-12 weeks)
solo - or with lower dosed Epi (20-30mg ed, first 3-4 weeks, last 3-4 weeks)
Clen for 2-3 weeks and finishing off in last 2-3 weeks as well.
Low dose Arimadex on cycle.

Torem + Derrmacrine Sustain for PCT
May take Nolva for first week of PCT and then move to Torem


Any thoughts on the above options? Tweaks, other suggestions, etc? Also, would running a low does of t3 (25mcg or so) help in any of these options?

#1 would be the cheapest, #2 the most expensive, #3 would show the most results....but #2 may also show less sides and some very nice lean gains still...but it looks more like a cutting stack I have to admit. I wouldn't mind that though, leaning out further while still gaining would be nice indeed.

Other points:

I am not prone to MPB but I did shed a bit when taking ergo. My first PH/PS cycle was hit HARD and was a lil risky for my first (7 weeks and had many compounds), but I reacted well and did not have any major sides from it. I had high BP at times, mostly after introducing the Ergo. It wasn't bad though and was controlled. My PCT went very well also and oddly I had no real loss in libido or performance, which surprised me. I expected to be shutdown for a short period after that stack.

I am planning on getting bloodwork done asap as well as looking into getting HCG just to be safe, even though it may not be necessary on these cycles. I don't think it would be a bad idea to include it. Better to be safe.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts, criticism or comments.

[Gixxer82]

Think your best option would be #3. Would be solid for putting on some lean bulk. Epi will keep water weight off for the first and last 4 weeks of your cycle while adding some additional lean mass. I think you will be most happy with this cycle. You'll probably lose some decent bodyfat too.

[Gutterpump]

Thanks for the comments, I was leaning to that one too

I think I may add Proviron + HCG as well to that 3rd one.
I will have to research when to stop taking the proviron + hcg, but I will take them from day 1 of the cycle. I will also have to research if Arimidex is necessary while taking the Epi + Proviron.

edit: it will end up looking something like this

Test Enan (500mg - 250x2 for 10-12 weeks)
Epi (20-30mg ed, first 3-4 weeks, last 3-4 weeks)
Proviron (week 1-?)
HCG (week 1-? / 250iu twice/week)
Low dose Arimidex on cycle? (may be too much e suppression, will decide soon)

Clen for 2-3 weeks and finishing off in last 2-3 weeks as well.

post cycle therapy:
Nolva/Torem + Dermacrine Sustain.

All support supps will be in place. Will be also taking taurine + poseidon + gaba.

Still up for any comments or suggestions on this as well.

Also, my stats are as follows. 6'2 220 pnds. ~15%bf (estimating) but still cutting atm. Only place I have fat right now is some on my obliques and stomache, but my abs are almost visible (I can see the sides of them, as well as part of my obliques) and my arms/shoulders, upper chest are getting pretty vascular, so maybe my BF is lower than 15%. Need to get this tested soon.

Definately going to run a log of this when/if it happens.

[Travis]

I like that 3rd stack the best. Maybe add T3 on cycle or IGF in post cycle to help keep gains and reduce any fat gain in PCT. Looks good though.

Use the HCG say weeks 4-10/12, depending on how much you get. I doubt you'll need it from day 1.

[Gutterpump]

Originally Posted by Travis

I like that 3rd stack the best. Maybe add T3 on cycle or IGF in post cycle to help keep gains and reduce any fat gain in post cycle therapy. Looks good though.

Use the HCG say weeks 4-10/12, depending on how much you get. I doubt you'll need it from day 1.

Thanks. If I start the HCG at week 4, is it fine to still go at 250iu twice a week at that point as well? or should I do 500iu twice a week at that point?

Also, if using proviron + epistane on cycle, do you think arimidex should be used as well at a low dose? Or should I just keep it on hand along with my nolva? I'm thinking that's a lot of AI to use all at once and maybe adding some arimidex on weeks4-8 only would be fine.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Gutterpump

Thanks. If I start the HCG at week 4, is it fine to still go at 250iu twice a week at that point as well? or should I do 500iu twice a week at that point?

Also, if using proviron + epistane on cycle, do you think arimidex should be used as well at a low dose? Or should I just keep it on hand along with my nolva? I'm thinking that's a lot of AI to use all at once and maybe adding some arimidex on weeks4-8 only would be fine.

I would start with 250IU's 2x/week. I'm terrible with the AI's on cycle (meaning I dont know much about it), so I will direct a couple people here that know that stuff much better.

[Primordial Perf]

Originally Posted by Gutterpump

Thanks. If I start the HCG at week 4, is it fine to still go at 250iu twice a week at that point as well? or should I do 500iu twice a week at that point?

Also, if using proviron + epistane on cycle, do you think arimidex should be used as well at a low dose? Or should I just keep it on hand along with my nolva? I'm thinking that's a lot of AI to use all at once and maybe adding some arimidex on weeks4-8 only would be fine.

Based on your third cycle option, you shouldn’t need an AI, especially since you will be running the epi and proviron.

Start the hCG on week 3 (day 15) at 250iu twice a week. This is the perfect dose to keep the testes active, and to avoid too much estrogen creation or desensitization.

Good luck.

-Pp

[Gutterpump]

PP - thanks for the info. Will follow that when it comes time. I was thinking another AI wouldn't be necessary as well.

Originally Posted by Travis

or IGF in post cycle to help keep gains and reduce any fat gain in post cycle therapy. Looks good though

Just another question. Would you be talking about LLR3 IGF-1 in post cycle therapy (at around 40mcg eod)? Or would you recommend IGF-1 Ec (mgf) instead, or maybe something like Oratropin-1. Something I've hardly looked into but definately worth researching, as well as some of the other peptides out there that have caught my eye.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by Gutterpump

PP - thanks for the info. Will follow that when it comes time. I was thinking another AI wouldn't be necessary as well.



Just another question. Would you be talking about LLR3 IGF-1 in post cycle therapy (at around 40mcg eod)? Or would you recommend IGF-1 Ec (mgf) instead, or maybe something like Oratropin-1. Something I've hardly looked into but definately worth researching, as well as some of the other peptides out there that have caught my eye.

Currently using LR3 IGF-1 yes. I do about 50mcg's 4x/week. Check out the IGF forum. There is a ton of info in there. Good stuff imho.

[Gutterpump]

Hrmm. I think I may give Oratropin a try in my post cycle therapy at first. It would be nice to site injct in any lacking areas though (R3 might be better for this). But Oratropin looks like it might help retain gains and lean me out even further.

The whole issue of intestinal growth scared me away before when reading about it, but at low useage, it might not even be an issue. IGF or GH is not something that I'm interesting in using in a high amount or for a lengthy period of time. I already have a fairly large frame to work from + good genetics, so luckily I won't need too much of it I don't think.

[Gutterpump]

I think this is my final question.

I'm planning on taking 50mg of Proviron (25mg 2x/day) for the full 12 week period.
This is basically what I've seen recommended.

But because I am taking epistane in my first 4 weeks, should I run the Proviron at 25mg ed for that time, then 50mg for week 5-8 (while I stop taking epistane), then back to 25mg when I go back on epistane in my final 4 weeks?

Or should I run 50mg straight through.

BTW I should rename this the sex stack. The test+proviron will make for a great time...and I'm sure the epi will only compound the effects. Should be an interesting first experience with pinning.