[celc5]

This is what I learned over the past several months. I would like to hear opinions and/or criticism. I am also interested to see if others have similar formulas or "rules" that they follow.

ON cyle:
-Steroid/Ph
-Cycle Support

Secondary/optional:
...cissus if dry
...formestane if wet
...libido enhancer if suppressive
...energy/mental focus if lethargy

P.C.T:
-SERM
-AI
-Cort Control
-Free Test booster
-Cycle Support
-Optional to continue the above secondary

*I realize not everyone uses SERMS all the time, but this thread is NOT about that debate
*I realize not everyone uses milk thistle while ON. Again this thread is NOT about that debate either.

I'd like to see other formulas.

Edit: this is regarding oral cycles. I am not familiar with pinning as I'm sure there are different rules for those cycles.

[RisingAgainst]

Originally Posted by celc5

This is what I learned over the past several months. I would like to hear opinions and/or criticism. I am also interested to see if others have similar formulas or "rules" that they follow.

ON cyle:
-Steroid/Ph
-Cycle Support

Secondary/optional:
...cissus if dry
...formestane if wet
...trib if suppressive
...energy/mental focus if lethargy

P.C.T:
-SERM
-AI
-Cort Control
-Free Test booster
-Cycle Support
-Optional to continue the above secondary

*I realize not everyone uses SERMS all the time, but this thread is NOT about that debate
*I realize not everyone uses milk thistle while ON. Again this thread is NOT about that debate either.

I'd like to see other formulas.

Doesn't look bad bro... I personally don't use milk thistle.. I use SAMe and NAC for liver health.. I like to form and mix and match all of my own supporting supps as well. I'm big on Niacin at night, policosanol, and hawthorne as well. I think you've progressed quite nicely from when we first met though, so you get a huge pat on the back for that!

[Rodja]

Good except for the trib part...tribulus is crap.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by Rodja

Good except for the trib part...tribulus is crap.

That's cool. I personally like trib, but I know a ton of people agree with you and don't get much out of it. How do you deal with libido issues if they pop up on cycle? I posted this to learn as many options as I can.

Btw, I'm not a fan of fenugreek. It only enhances libido for a day or 2 for me and then my nipples get itchy.

[RisingAgainst]

Originally Posted by celc5

That's cool. I personally like trib, but I know a ton of people agree with you and don't get much out of it. How do you deal with libido issues if they pop up on cycle? I posted this to learn as many options as I can.

Btw, I'm not a fan of fenugreek. It only enhances libido for a day or 2 for me and then my nipples get itchy.

Try Eurycoma Longifolia... (long jack) cycle it 5days on, 2days off.

[Rodja]

Originally Posted by celc5

That's cool. I personally like trib, but I know a ton of people agree with you and don't get much out of it. How do you deal with libido issues if they pop up on cycle? I posted this to learn as many options as I can.

Btw, I'm not a fan of fenugreek. It only enhances libido for a day or 2 for me and then my nipples get itchy.

I am a believer of building cycles around test. Test will solve any libido issues.

[neoborn]

Try just putting "Test Booster" instead of trib?

I like it dood we should sticky sh1t like this! Or add it to the article area. We need to have stuff in an area it's condensed thread information that is useful for newbies and others.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by Rodja

I am a believer of building cycles around test. Test will solve any libido issues.

agreed

Originally Posted by RisingAgainst

Try Eurycoma Longifolia... (long jack) cycle it 5days on, 2days off.

agreed

Originally Posted by neoborn

Try just putting "Test Booster" instead of trib?

Good point. However, I personally categorize trib as a "libido enhancer" rather than a test booster.

[neoborn]

Originally Posted by celc5

Good point. However, I personally categorize trib as a "libido enhancer" rather than a test booster.

Then just add both

• Libido Enhancer
• Test Booster

[PumpingIron]

That's pretty much the all out methodology. After a cycle or two, you will start to mess with it. I personally don't use and AI in post cycle therapy anymore. I'll use them on cycle for a wet compound, but thats about it.

I love milke thistle...good stuff. I think adding something like creatine to you PCT is a good idea to help keep strength up.

After a few bouts with Designers, here is my method...

-Cycle support half dosing 1 week prior, and my staple supps (BCAAs, Creatine)
-Cycle consisting of the Designer and a full dose of Cycle Support
-Post Cycle Therapy consisting of a SERM, an Anti-Cortisol, a Natural Test Booster, Creatine, BCAAs

[celc5]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

I personally don't use and AI in post cycle therapy anymore. I'll use them on cycle for a wet compound, but thats about it.

Since this is a newbie thread, it would be cool if PI, RA, and others more experienced with designers would elaborate a little about what makes a compound wet vs. dry and why an AI would or would not be necessary in pct.

I think I personally get the jist of it, but you guys would most definately give a much more articulate, educated, and experienced explanation.

[PumpingIron]

Running Serm inverse to ADT??

take a read...it's got a lot of good info.

[celc5]

Originally Posted by PumpingIron

Running Serm inverse to ADT??

take a read...it's got a lot of good info.

Good link. I've read it before and was thinking it was a sticky somewhere

I've also noticed that those who use the less powerful AI's such as 6brom (hyperdrol or restore) don't seem to ramp up OR taper down. I'm guessing the reasoning is that they do a better job of controlling estrogen rather than crushing it. Any thoughts on this?

[celc5]

In response to Neoborn and RA, I edited the initial post to include "libido enhancer" as a secondary rather than narrowing it down to just trib.

[RisingAgainst]

That's pretty much the all out methodology. After a cycle or two, you will start to mess with it. I personally don't use and AI in post cycle therapy anymore. I'll use them on cycle for a wet compound, but thats about it.

I agree with parts of this, but I still think a SERM standalone PCT isn't quite enough in terms of control, AT LEAST use I3C at a high dose?? IMO SERM + ATD is a good bet.

I love milke thistle...good stuff. I think adding something like creatine to you PCT is a good idea to help keep strength up.

I'm convinced SAMe is better than thistle, I run NAC with whichever one I use though.
Creatine is a great PCT option, especially a good strong one!

Since this is a newbie thread, it would be cool if PI, RA, and others more experienced with designers would elaborate a little about what mak