Tst/phera-plex/epistane

charger71

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Well it starts today, first week is tst only for 3 days then one day of tst 10mg/phera 10mg then starting phera 20mg/tst 10mg.

week 1: phera 20mg/tst 12mg
week 2: phera 20mg/tst 10mg
week 3: phera 30mg/tst 10mg
week 4: phera 10mg/epistane 20mg
week 5: epistane 40mg
week 6: epistane 40mg
week 7: epistane 20mg

support supps:NOW liver detoxifeir/regenterator, milk thistle, fish oil, celery seed, hawthore berry, vitamin C, multi vitamin, prostate support.

post cycle therapy:clomid 200mgx2 days, 100mgx2 days, 50mg til end
nolva 20mg ed
alpha drive

will end cycle IF i get sick, start losing hair, get too lethargic.

weight: 189
 

charger71

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day 1: 10mg tst....bench up 40 pounds....haha jk todays a rest day, no noticable change. im not gonna update every day, probabely every 3-4 days or whenever i have a good gym day.
 

charger71

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i havnt used any of these compounds before, but ive used superdrol and ergomax and phera is suppose to be a cleaner version of ergomax. im hopin to lean down a lot and put on 5-10 pounds, well see how it goes.
 
fritzer

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7 weeks of methyls. 7 weeks of androgenic as hell methyls... hmmm haha i will be curious to see how this pans out. People might be seeing their reflection on your head
:rofl:
 

charger71

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7 weeks of methyls. 7 weeks of androgenic as hell methyls... hmmm haha i will be curious to see how this pans out. People might be seeing their reflection on your head
:rofl:
so you really think this will effect my hairline that badly? superdrol and ergo did nothing to my hairline, trn did.
 
fritzer

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jut watch it. i have done phera and have no history of MPB but got some shedding on ym last pheraplex cycle at 30mg a day on the fourth week. You'll be ok, if it gets bad just stop and split it into two 4 week cycles. phera/tst and epi
 

charger71

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thats one thing that scares the hell out of me, my dad went bald young and im in no hurry to lose any hair. what ph's arnt androgenic? i guess i should probabely figure this out now before i buy anything else, low androgenic ph's from now on! haha
 
quigs

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Not too bad, but I'd rather see you do something like this:

week 1: phera 20mg/tst 10mg
week 2: phera 20mg/tst 12mg
week 3: phera 30mg/tst 12mg
week 4: phera 10mg/epistane 20mg
week 5: epistane 30mg
week 6: epistane 40mg
week 7: epistane 40mg

Not too sure why you're starting with a high dose and tapering down. This really isn't needed as long as a good PCT follows. Also, IMO its always better to start out on the low end with dosages and work up to assess your tolerance to sides. Good luck!
 
fritzer

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well epi is not supposed to be that androgenic but some notice shedding. Just take it one day at a time. Or hey, look up pulse cycling. It is where you dose orals only 3-4x a week and get way less side effects. you do 2weeks on 2 off. This stops shutdown a lot as well.

Im sure someone has a link to Dr. D's thread
 

charger71

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ive read about pulsing, it looks good but i dont quite trust it yet. im just gonna give this stack a try and stop early if i notice any shedding. third day on tst and starting pp today, doing chest tonight so ill post back if anything interesting happens.
 

charger71

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already getting great pumps, weight is up 2 pounds...although im just coming off a diet and my appetite is insane right now so thats probabely fat/water. strength isnt up yet but i wouldnt expect it to be after 4 days. libido is actually down some which i didnt expect, but so far its not low enough to be of concern.

fyi im taking .5mg of letro every other day, that could be why im libido is lower.
 

charger71

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well after 4 days off due to the worlds most epic sunburn im finally back in the gym tonight, stopping tst tomorrow because the headaches are getting too bad. tst/phera is the only thing thats given me head aches, must be affecting my blood preasure a lot.
 

charger71

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definitely noticing some water retention now, especially in my chest....which i hate. i stopped the letro because it was killing my libido so hopefully i wont have any gyno issues before i start epistane, and epistane will dry me out more...i hope.
 
poopypants

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gyno from phera???? are you VERY prone to it? SD is the only thing to aggrivate/cause my gyno, i start getting itchy nips by the end of the first week, either way i wouldnt worry much, Epi will destroy/stop anything from progressing gyno wise and will def dry you out more while still doing a good job building muscle cause of its est blocking effects. i got clean gains off it.

looks like a fun cycle gl.
 

charger71

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im not getting gyno, i think im just really sensitive to hormones. bad ass mass did the same thing to my chest, it just looks soft like im retaining water. superdrol gave me gyno, im getting no pain or hard lumps from phera. i cant wait to start epistane! maybe ill finally get rid of some of this poofy/soft chest that ive had since puberty.

btw i stopped tst 2 days early and the headaches went away. these were the worst headaches ive ever had, kind of regret buying 4 bottles of tst now :rasp:
 
poopypants

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no i didnt think you were getting it, i jsut wouldnt think you WOULD get it from phera is what i was getting at UNLESS you are very prone, as for the Epi... DUDE you are gonna love what it will do for your chest.... check my log a couple pages from the last for progression pics, the link is in my AVI.
 
poopypants

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btw i stopped tst 2 days early and the headaches went away. these were the worst headaches ive ever had, kind of regret buying 4 bottles of tst now :rasp:
what were you dosing the TST @ anyways???
i remember you stating you planned on 12mg??? thats like 2 times the labeled dose and i know most guys are seeing reasonlable gains from 6- 8mg without havin that prob.... stacking the 2 prob didnt help much either, dont shoot it down yet, maye you shoulda tried all these on their own before stacking (personal rule of thumb for my stacks) to asses how you react to each so you REALLY know where the problems are comin from.... although i woulda kept the PP over TST anyday as PP is one of my faves and is a proven kick ass oral while TST is underdosed and comes with its own risks of sides..... i still got a bottle on the way though JIC.:D
 

charger71

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yeah i was running it at 12mg, definitely too much while stacked with phera. i loved ergomax so i knew ide love phera, ill just save the tst for a non methyl stack sometime next year.
 
poopypants

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ya i cant wait to use my tst.... just haved decided to stack it with my trenaplex (fini clone and NOT the new trenaplex in pills) or my TRN..... trn is very temting but my acne was outta control with it along with strength and have heard nothingbut good things bout fini when dosed properly.
 

charger71

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so far im not impressed with phera plex, starting my 3rd week and im up to 194 but my lifts arnt up that much. im still getting head aches and ive been lethargic. i started 40mg tonight so well see how this week goes.
 
Werewolf

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so far im not impressed with phera plex, starting my 3rd week and im up to 194 but my lifts arnt up that much. im still getting head aches and ive been lethargic. I started 40mg tonight so well see how this week goes.
Your lethargic already so you going to take a higher dose. Guess what, you'r going to get more lethargic. I only recommend 20 mgs at your weight. More is not always better.
I feel bad so I going to take more so I can feel worse. I did some pretty stupid things when I was young too, but engage your brain. Drop to 20mgs and let your body recover. M-TST loads your liver too. 12 mgs? WTF? Is this suicide by steriods?

More is not always better. I can put 2 to 3 lbs of muscle a week on with 20 mgs of Pher-plex at age 47 and feel good at the same time.

You can not make good gains when feel like C**p. It is common sense.
 
poopypants

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word .... with a little less harshness, lol. but its needed sometimes, a good slap in tha face that is.

ask yourself a couple questions bro and use this for EVERY cycle you do.

Q. 1)are you still making gains in weight??
Q. 2)are you adjusting your caloric intake to compenstate for your new added mass??
Q. 3)do you feel like the sides are getting too heavy for you right now?

all these are very important factors to whether or not you should raise or lower your dosage.

just cause you have a set dosing schedule doesnt necesarily mean @ week 3 exactly you must bump to another 10 mg ED.

A. first)are you making steady gains at a certain dosage and it comes time to up them does that mean you have to? NO, more is not always better, most of the time your just wasting supp and burnin out your AR's quicker.

A. second) think about upping your cals first if gains are slowing depending on your goals (bulking in presume) do so with clean macros and youll do fine. if this doesnt work after a couple days THEN up your mg dosage ED as well.

A. third) now are you making good gains at a certian dosage and your experienceing sides then back off a lil bit and see if the pros stay while seeing if the sides subside, DEF do not up them just cause its "time".

i hope you take this all as constructive criticism, its always good to have some game plan and form of rigidity in you diet training AND your supplementation but listening to you body, knowing when to go forward and when to hold off is all the same just as important and your gains will prosper greatly if you learn to do this. gl.
 
poopypants

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btw phera is a SOLID mass and strength builder.... either you got a bunk version(HIGHLY UNLIKELY) or you need to take a very close look at your diet and training program.
 
Werewolf

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word .... with a little less harshness, lol. but its needed sometimes, a good slap in tha face that is.

ask yourself a couple questions bro and use this for EVERY cycle you do.

Q. 1)are you still making gains in weight??
Q. 2)are you adjusting your caloric intake to compenstate for your new added mass??
Q. 3)do you feel like the sides are getting too heavy for you right now?

all these are very important factors to whether or not you should raise or lower your dosage.

just cause you have a set dosing schedule doesnt necesarily mean @ week 3 exactly you must bump to another 10 mg ED.

A. first)are you making steady gains at a certain dosage and it comes time to up them does that mean you have to? NO, more is not always better, most of the time your just wasting supp and burnin out your AR's quicker.

A. second) think about upping your cals first if gains are slowing depending on your goals (bulking in presume) do so with clean macros and youll do fine. if this doesnt work after a couple days THEN up your mg dosage ED as well.

A. third) now are you making good gains at a certian dosage and your experienceing sides then back off a lil bit and see if the pros stay while seeing if the sides subside, DEF do not up them just cause its "time".

i hope you take this all as constructive criticism, its always good to have some game plan and form of rigidity in you diet training AND your supplementation but listening to you body, knowing when to go forward and when to hold off is all the same just as important and your gains will prosper greatly if you learn to do this. gl.
Very good and informative post. Good job!

My claws aren't out yet. But 40 mgs of Phera-plex at 194 lbs, I'm not afraid to be a little cruel to be kind.
 
Werewolf

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Check your blood pressure, that maybe where the headaches are from.
 

charger71

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1) i stopped tst 5 days ago, yes i was being stupid.
2) every post ive read said to run phera 20, 30, 40. your the first person who has said to keep it at 20.
3) i forgot to mention that i get really bad allergies every spring, this could be why im getting headaches and lethargic, but phera definitely isnt making it any better.
4) blood preassure is up a little but nothing to be concerned about, im a certified emt, i check myself haha.
5) my diet is exactly how it was on superdrol and ergo, superdrol did make me lethargic but i still gained a lot. ergo never made me lethargic. im not bulking like crazy but i am eating around 4000 calories a day, most of it before 6pm.
6) i have put on 5.6 pounds in 2 weeks which is near the norm for phera, but im really looking for strength gains which im not getting. maybe im just expecting too much because i responded so well to superdrol....i only ran it for 18 days and my bench went up 40 pounds.

the weirdest thing is i get the most lethargic after drinking caffeine or sugar, i dont know how to explain this....but im staying away from energy supplements now.
 

charger71

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no headache or lethargy today, but just like every spring my freakin allergies have lead to a cold and my tonsils are swollen as all hell. im taking a lot of vitamin C and anti oxidents so hopefully this will pass soon. ever since i stopped methoxy tst my pumps have really gone down, im really starting to think that phera bol is a crappy clone. i got the bad batch of epistane so as soon as ibe sends me the replacement im just gonna switch over to that, im not gonna run both during week 4, just epistane.

btw i ran ergomax lmg 20, 20, 30, 30 with no sides and great strength gains, since phera plex is suppose to be a cleaner version of ergomax i assumed ide see the same gains, or better....guess i was wrong.
 
Werewolf

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no headache or lethargy today, but just like every spring my freakin allergies have lead to a cold and my tonsils are swollen as all hell. im taking a lot of vitamin C and anti oxidents so hopefully this will pass soon. ever since i stopped methoxy tst my pumps have really gone down, im really starting to think that phera bol is a crappy clone. i got the bad batch of epistane so as soon as ibe sends me the replacement im just gonna switch over to that, im not gonna run both during week 4, just epistane.

btw i ran ergomax lmg 20, 20, 30, 30 with no sides and great strength gains, since phera plex is suppose to be a cleaner version of ergomax i assumed ide see the same gains, or better....guess i was wrong.
Ergomax is wetter compound meaning more estrogen is produced. This makes it more suppressive than Phera-plex, but the bulk it produces increases strength.

When you mixed Phera-plex with high doses of M-TST you created a very suppressive combination and eliminated Phera-plex advantage over Ergomax. That advantage is low suppression.

Going to Eptistane is very good idea and will tend reverse some of the suppression. The sooner the better.

Going to 20 mgs of Phera-plex split 12 hours apart and 2 to 4 mgs of M-TST before your workout will probably get more the effect you are looking for in the short term.

If you are feeling sick then 50 mgs to 100 mgs of DHEA will raise your estrogen up and with it your white blood cell count. As always beware of any signs Gyno since you raising estrogen up. It is not clear what M-TST does to estrogen levels, but it likely to raise them. Because your testosterone levels are likely suppressed then estrogen level will also likely be suppressed also.
 

charger71

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the weird thing is i dont feel shut down at all, my balls are actually bigger then normal. the only other time ive felt like this was when i was on hyperdrol. definitely didnt expect a ph to do this to me.
 

charger71

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ok, im DOWN 1 pound since i stopped tst....what are the odds that pherabol is bunk? i dont want to give up on it yet, but i dont feel on anymore and im almost certain that all my gains came from tst.
 
poopypants

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maybe man, maybe you should run only the TST and at a reasonable dose.
 

charger71

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the first give away is that im not shut down at all, my boys are hangin better then ever. it feels like im taking a test booster. man this pisses me off, i was really excited to try phera plex.
 
poopypants

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that is till the epi rolls in, but how long is it suppod to be before you get your replacement???
 

charger71

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well i have the "bad batch" which is really the same thing as havoc. the real epistane should be here by friday, or at least thats what ibe said. i guess i could start the epistane i have and switch over when the replacement gets here, couldnt hurt. or i could start propadrol....it isnt methylated so it wont be too hard on the liver.
 
pistonpump

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interesting thread to say the least. where to start where to start.....?
 

charger71

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interesting thread to say the least. where to start where to start.....?
i feel another lecture coming on...

i guess its very possible that i could be a non responder to phera plex, if thats the case then methoxy tst is responsible for for 5 pounds in 2 weeks and thats more then i expected from it....

im gonna run pherabol solo until monday, right about now is when phera plex is suppose to really kick in so if i make no gains in the next 5 days then either its bunk or im a non responder.
 
poopypants

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if you keep switching and switching though man your not gonna do much of anything but waste supps... id stick it out with the phera and see if it plays out man, you never know unless you stick with it...... also youve allready finished 1/4 of a phera cycle so might as well hold on till the end then IF you decide to do anything else id suggest just stickin to the epi to wrap things up.... dunno how good it is to run that long of mthyls though.
 

charger71

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yeah im still doing phera/epistane, will finish up phera this week, may or may not run 10mg with epistane the first week, depends on if i make any gains by monday.
 

charger71

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in my 3rd week of epistane solo and i feel great with great pumps and strength going up every day, i guess phera-plex just didnt do it for me. but i am LOVING epistane, i feel "on" in terms of strength and the way i look in the mirror, but i also feel great! superdrol and ergomax and even the phera plex just gave me a feeling like i could be better haha. still having bad allergies :( but its much easier to deal with while on epistane.

btw before i started epi i lost another pound while on phera, i think i got down to 192ish, now im back up to 196 and still have 2 weeks left. this is while BULKING on phera and CUTTING on epistane, seems kind of backwards doesnt it? but i cant dis the phera-bol, i got side effects so im assuming it was the real deal and i just didnt respond.

whoever has taken epistane, do you agree that this is the best feeling ph youve ever taken?
 
poopypants

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id have to say it WAS great, BUT aside from the sleepiness(most likely form the prostan i was taking at the same time) Phera-Plex from AX (the ORIGINAL) was the best "feeling" ive ever had... Epi is VERY close behind though and the fact that it destroyeed my gyno along the way and ALL my gains were not just retained but able to be improved upon during PCT i definately have to put Epi at the top of my list for overall bet PH/PS ever taken.
 

charger71

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i wish i responded to phera-plex as well as most people rave about :( but i think within the next year there are gonna be a lot of awesome new products i can look forward to.....epistane, prodadrol and 3-ad may just be the start of a lot of great new products.
 

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no i didnt think you were getting it, i jsut wouldnt think you WOULD get it from phera is what i was getting at UNLESS you are very prone, as for the Epi... DUDE you are gonna love what it will do for your chest.... check my log a couple pages from the last for progression pics, the link is in my AVI.
phera could cause progestational gyno........no?
 
poopypants

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phera could cause progestational gyno........no?
it CAN, havnt heard of anyone gettingit though... ran PP 2 times and SD 3.... not even itchy nips with PP but got itchy the first time on SD and had to stop and do nolva, and got full blown gyno from my last time.... so obviously im prone to gyno... just not progesational.... never had lactation though even with as large of lumps as i had....
 
TripDog

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nothing personal charger,but this cycle could have used a little more research before starting......tst is from my own use a rather angrogenic substance.....if you are worried about your hairline tst isn't helping thats for dam sure....
 
TripDog

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Havoc/Epistane

Epitiostanol
2a,3a-epithio17a methyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstane
2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

BAD FOR LIVER: YES.
CHOLESTEROL PROBLEMS: YES - data unreliable; highly probable.
TYPICAL GAIN IN 1 MONTH: 10 lbs.
GAINS START: 2 days.

HIGHLY ANDROGENIC
HAIR LOSS VERY COMMON
PROSTATE SWELLING/PAIN CAN OCCUR
TESTES SHUTDOWN: 2-3 days.
 
klugman

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I think if you're going to run TST you need to keep the dose low and stack it with something.

I haven't gone above 8mg/day since starting and I'm still gaining weight and strength.
I'm not using crazy dosages for the havoc either. I'm going to stay at 30mg for my final week. Why use more if the gains keep coming????

Also, like Trip Dog says if you're using stuff that like TST that is very androgenic you need prostate protection. I swear by the NOW nutrition prostate support soft gels.

Finally, how much water are you drinking? Are you getting enough.

Good luck and keep posting!
 
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