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cycle help

bobthechamp

New member
Hey guys first timer on this forum. I've been bodybuilding for a long time. My stats are 5' 9" 225lbs 6%BF. I'm looking at doing another cycle and i wanted to ask your opinions on it. I'm looking for a cycle that will put on some size but not bloat me. What do you guys think?
 
Irish_Rogue said:
Bloody hell mate, 6% @ 225. Do you need another cycle?
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i'd love to get to the nationals this year. I qualified last year and i had a bunch of problems so i just didn't think i could make it. However now a lot of things have cleared up so if i act quick i think i could still go. So i need a little advice. Most of my size i've actually put on naturally. About a year and half ago I wanted to put on a little more size so i had my buddy put me on a crazy cycle. I've pretty much run everything there is out ther within 1 year. And the gains have not been that spectacular. Basicly i don't think he really know what he's talking about. So i've been clean of everything now and want to do the research on my on and do my own cycle. So c'mon guys feel free to tell me your opinions. I'd like to stay away from test as it bloats me up and my own test is really high so my buddy says i should just run primo by itself. What do you guys think?
 
bobthechamp said:
i'd love to get to the nationals this year. I qualified last year and i had a bunch of problems so i just didn't think i could make it. However now a lot of things have cleared up so if i act quick i think i could still go. So i need a little advice. Most of my size i've actually put on naturally. About a year and half ago I wanted to put on a little more size so i had my buddy put me on a crazy cycle. I've pretty much run everything there is out ther within 1 year. And the gains have not been that spectacular. Basicly i don't think he really know what he's talking about. So i've been clean of everything now and want to do the research on my on and do my own cycle. So c'mon guys feel free to tell me your opinions. I'd like to stay away from test as it bloats me up and my own test is really high so my buddy says i should just run primo by itself. What do you guys think?
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Really Test is Ideal for a first, and will put on size. You can keep the bloat minimal with an Anti-E. Your test being very high naturally will have no bearing on this. If you cycle, your body will experience superphysiolical hormone ranges, and will suppress your own test production.

For a true first cycle, I say test at about 500mgs - 750mgs a week. Test doesn't have some of the negative sides, that most other compounds carry. IE: Lethargy.

Adams
 
This isn't his first cycle.

bob,

What specifically did you run over the past year? What was your diet like...how did things change precontest etc. You are far more advanced than I am physiologically and I for one can't give much advice until I know more. You are shooting for goals that few of us have achieved.

I agree that you are going to need some test most likely. Use Adex or aromasin if you want to keep bloat down. You can certainly stack EQ with it (maybe 600 would be a moderate dose) if you think it might help with appetite.

We just need more info. either for you to give us a sample of what you want to do, or just start asking questions. We are here to help.
 
ok y'all. well i've been running letrozole trying to get rid of some pesky gyno that i have. so far i'm seeing very little results. so i've planned out my cycle and this is what i've been thinking

IGF-1 50mcg 4x/wk/1 month
(shoot it in chest, quads, 24 hrs before working out)
MGF 250mcg 2x/wk/1 month
(shoot it in chest, quads rear delts, bicep)

maybe run Jungle Warfare with it both for the isulin sensitivity that it offers and the body repartitioning effects. What do you guys think?

also what i'm trying to figure out is what kind of anabolics i could use with it. I'm planing a 12 week lean mass cycle. With the new "baby" cells i want to "blow" them up. So what should I use? this is what i have

50ml Deca
50ml Test E
50ml EQ
50ml Primo
sustanon 250
drastanon

keep in mind that i'll also be running my letrozole while on
 
hey, no advice from me, you're too far ahead in the game but i'm just curious on how the MGF is going to work.
 
anyone? if nobody knows how to answer this could someone with a gold member account PM Dr.D?? i'd really apreciate it if the Doctor could take a look at this.
 
bobthechamp said:
anyone? if nobody knows how to answer this could someone with a gold member account PM Dr.D?? i'd really apreciate it if the Doctor could take a look at this.
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How much letro are you using now and for how long have you been using it? I'd be real careful with the IGF if you already have gyno. It can make it get worse very quickly and even high dose SERMs can't reverse it IME. The MGF is fine though. I'm with Card and DA as far as suggesting test, Sus @ 250mg twice wkly or TE @ 200mg twice wkly. After the first week or two, if the gyno has not gotten worse and your AI is doing it's job, you can step up to 750 Sus or 600 TE per wk if needed. There is also a supp called Epistane available right now (a strong estrogen antagonist) that is a very clean oral. People are reporting very encouraging results in reduction of pre-existing gyno using it and if it is stacked with test, you will not need an AI and a lower dose of test could be applied. Or, the JW would stack well too and provide the AI, but once again be careful because of the insulin like effects of the polypeptide in Momordica Charantia. Insulin can act like IGF to enhance gyno, not sure if MC can or not.
 
thank you Dr.D for stopping by. I've got a show coming up on May 30th and i've got to win that. anyways i've been runing letro for only 1 week and i'm up to 2.5mg right now following a gyno removing plan I found on this site. so you're saying that i should stop doing letrozole and switch to Epistane, or keep running my letrozole and add Epistane to it? If you're saying that IGF might make my gyno worse I think i'll just run the IGF then 50mcg 4X/week and if my gyno starts acting up i'll stop it. I'm also thinking about stacking my test with deca too. Would it be better if i'll start my steroid cycle while on the IGF and MGF cycle or should i wait until i'm done with it? What about the option of running JW for the first month with the IGF/MGF cycle or should i just forget about JW and keep it for some other time? For the last 2 weeks prior to my show i will run Primo +EQ +Winni + Tren. It's worked very well for me in the past. Does it look good to you? Thanks for your help Doc.
 
bobthechamp said:
thank you Dr.D for stopping by. I've got a show coming up on May 30th and i've got to win that. anyways i've been runing letro for only 1 week and i'm up to 2.5mg right now following a gyno removing plan I found on this site. so you're saying that i should stop doing letrozole and switch to Epistane, or keep running my letrozole and add Epistane to it? If you're saying that IGF might make my gyno worse I think i'll just run the IGF then 50mcg 4X/week and if my gyno starts acting up i'll stop it. I'm also thinking about stacking my test with deca too. Would it be better if i'll start my steroid cycle while on the IGF and MGF cycle or should i wait until i'm done with it? What about the option of running JW for the first month with the IGF/MGF cycle or should i just forget about JW and keep it for some other time? For the last 2 weeks prior to my show i will run Primo +EQ +Winni + Tren. It's worked very well for me in the past. Does it look good to you? Thanks for your help Doc.
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Wow.. just wanting to throw EVERYTHING in at once, and hope something works?

The EQ is useless to run at the last two weeks before show, since it takes AT LEAST that long for it to START building up in your system.... 4 weeks is when it seems for most to take effect.

I say get your research on your compounds... and dont throw EVERYTHING in at once.

Adams
 
Id have to disagree with dadams, from my personal experience week 8 and up is when it gets good. I have heard this from others too.
 
pistonpump said:
Id have to disagree with dadams, from my personal experience week 8 and up is when it gets good. I have heard this from others too.
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Which is why I said MOST... I personally never heard it take anyone 8 weeks for for EQ to take full effect... BUT thats not to say it doesnt happen.

Adams
 
well how "most" see effects from EQ at 4 weeks is a little new to me, i would say "few" because 4-5 weeks is around the time it takes for test enant and that is a shorter ester than the undec of the EQ. 8 weeks might be pushing it for most but it just doesnt make much sense logically for the undec ester to hit the same or near the time of the enan ester....
 
pistonpump said:
well how "most" see effects from EQ at 4 weeks is a little new to me, i would say "few" because 4-5 weeks is around the time it takes for test enant and that is a shorter ester than the undec of the EQ. 8 weeks might be pushing it for most but it just doesnt make much sense logically for the undec ester to hit the same or near the time of the enan ester....
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Break down of active half life of depot steroids:

Depot steroids

Drug Active half-life
Deca-durabolin (Nandrolone decanate) 15 days
Equipoise 14 days
Finaject (trenbolone acetate) 3 days
Primobolan (methenolone enanthate) 10.5 days
Sustanon or Omnadren 15 to 18 days
Testosterone Cypionate 12 days
Testosterone Enanthate 10.5 days
Testosterone Propionate 4.5 days
Testosterone Suspension 1 day
* Winstrol (stanozolol) 1 day


Now looking at the numbers for Equipose... WHY would it take 8 whole weeks to build up in the system?

The difference between active per day at the begining of 4 weeks, and 8 weeks is a mere 12 mgs per day, if injecting 400mgs per week.

Adams
 
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That's why you gotta front load guys. Take dec for example, if you pop 2000mg on day one, you don't have to wait weeks. It start in just a few days!
 
bobthechamp said:
thank you Dr.D for stopping by. I've got a show coming up on May 30th and i've got to win that. anyways i've been runing letro for only 1 week and i'm up to 2.5mg right now following a gyno removing plan I found on this site. so you're saying that i should stop doing letrozole and switch to Epistane, or keep running my letrozole and add Epistane to it? If you're saying that IGF might make my gyno worse I think i'll just run the IGF then 50mcg 4X/week and if my gyno starts acting up i'll stop it. I'm also thinking about stacking my test with deca too. Would it be better if i'll start my steroid cycle while on the IGF and MGF cycle or should i wait until i'm done with it? What about the option of running JW for the first month with the IGF/MGF cycle or should i just forget about JW and keep it for some other time? For the last 2 weeks prior to my show i will run Primo +EQ +Winni + Tren. It's worked very well for me in the past. Does it look good to you? Thanks for your help Doc.
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Either get the gyno in check with the letro and epi and then start your test/dec/eq or just avoid the pogestins all together with gyno already going. It looks OK and trying lots of things is one way to learn so I won't object, but I was trying to keep the gyno in mind with my advice because that can really ruin a cycle fast if you lose control of it and have to abort or change things radically. The IGF is trouble. JW may have the same issue with it's insulin-like effect, but it does have a good AI in it so who know, could go either way.
 
Thanks everyone for having patience with me. Although physically i can probably go against a lot of the people on this board, i do not have the anabolics knowledge that most of you have. I've blindly trusted a local "guru" with my cycles so far, without doing much research on my own. He claims to work with a few pro bodybuilders but i don't really believe it anymore. So i'm trying to educate myself. So, DAdams91982 just relax buddy. I've been in this game longer than you've been alive. So take it easy. Anyways Dr.D i really appreciate your help. The gyno that i have is some old gyno from about 2 years ago from a cycle of M1T. I didn't get worse on progestins so i'm gonna run them this time around. After all I am 45years old, i want my pro card and i only have another 2-3 years in me. So i'm gonna buy the Epistane and run it with the letro. Now, should i start running my steroids from the first day that i'm gonna run my MGF? And once i start running steroids should i decrease my letro? And how long can i safely run letro plus Epistane? Like i said previoustly, the Primo +EQ +Winni + Tren has worked for me in the past to harden me up for the last few weeks. What about you Dr. D? Do you think i should cut my EQ out?
 
bobthechamp said:
Thanks everyone for having patience with me. Although physically i can probably go against a lot of the people on this board, i do not have the anabolics knowledge that most of you have. I've blindly trusted a local "guru" with my cycles so far, without doing much research on my own. He claims to work with a few pro bodybuilders but i don't really believe it anymore. So i'm trying to educate myself. So, DAdams91982 just relax buddy. I've been in this game longer than you've been alive. So take it easy. Anyways Dr.D i really appreciate your help. The gyno that i have is some old gyno from about 2 years ago from a cycle of M1T. I didn't get worse on progestins so i'm gonna run them this time around. After all I am 45years old, i want my pro card and i only have another 2-3 years in me. So i'm gonna buy the Epistane and run it with the letro. Now, should i start running my steroids from the first day that i'm gonna run my MGF? And once i start running steroids should i decrease my letro? And how long can i safely run letro plus Epistane? Like i said previoustly, the Primo +EQ +Winni + Tren has worked for me in the past to harden me up for the last few weeks. What about you Dr. D? Do you think i should cut my EQ out?
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Dont worry... i wasnt heated, I was just trying to convey the knowledge was not yet there, as because you wanted to dip into EQ for two weeks.

But the good doctor can definately steer you in the right direction. Good luck on your show.

Adams
 
DAdams91982 said:
Dont worry... i wasnt heated, I was just trying to convey the knowledge was not yet there, as because you wanted to dip into EQ for two weeks.

But the good doctor can definately steer you in the right direction. Good luck on your show.

Adams
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Alright brother. Well i've been reconsidering my cycle, and i'm going to run EQ/PRIMO/TRen/Winni for the last 10 weeks. That means that i'm just going to stay on cycle from now until the show. First do my bulking cycle, TestE + Deca + MGF and then the last few weeks my "crazy" leaning out EQ/TREN/Winni/Primo. Not the best ideea to run my cycle this long but it will have to work. I've got HCG and Clomid and Nolva for PCT and i'll be fine.
 
bobthechamp said:
Alright brother. Well i've been reconsidering my cycle, and i'm going to run EQ/PRIMO/TRen/Winni for the last 10 weeks. That means that i'm just going to stay on cycle from now until the show. First do my bulking cycle, TestE + Deca + MGF and then the last few weeks my "crazy" leaning out EQ/TREN/Winni/Primo. Not the best ideea to run my cycle this long but it will have to work. I've got HCG and Clomid and Nolva for post cycle therapy and i'll be fine.
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That sounds OK, but I'd change oral evers 4-6wks. It's tough to get 10wks out of winni without getting totally stupid with the dose by the end. I'd still add the epi in the test phase, and cut the letro all together. If no epi, keep the letro but reduce to 0.25mg/d so you don't rebound hard later. A few months at 2.5mg/d can make you bounce bad when you stop and it's not much more effective that the 1/10 dose amazingly.
 
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