I've personally seen buddies put on 10lbs in a week on superdrol and keep 8lbs! Don't knock it till you tried it!
Frizer - where do you get that shutdown occurs in 14 days?
M1T was shown to reduce testosterone to less than 75 ng/dl in 3 days. 3 days!
(That was shown by Supersoldier.)
Not much sense came out of this comment. Probably should re-evaluate whatever research that you have done.Originally Posted by fritzer
Another reason you get the best gains the first 9 days is because:
A) Your receptors the freashest.
B) You get the initial glycogen storrage. I attribute this to around 3 pounds for me (first 3 pounds).
Now, I think that yes, your first 9 days will be just as you think. Take a week off, but the storrage effects will last close to a week. The second 9 days should yeild nice results too, as you could compare it to being "on" for 18days.
I guess it all depends what the buildup levels are if you were on for 18 days, compared to having to re-build those levels again your 2nd mini-cycle. In particular, I beleive SD would be the best compound for such an expirement. I would NOT try this with ERGO or anything fairly androgenic.
I had this idea in my head, and tried with PP, but it was too soon after a drawn out cycle, and I didnt gain a thing.
Im interested. Let the games begin.
idunk42, check out research done by Bill Roberts. His 2week steroid cycle profile and case study, etc.
9 days is a good way to go. Like i said gain good weight for nine days, your HPTA is not yet shut down and you will bounce back probably fully within week 2 of PCT and keep the majority of your gains.
Side effects are limited in this way aswell
Originally Posted by fritzer
Please post these studies. Also, as for the HPTA, Jmh80 posted results from anothers log saying that m1t shut him down within 3 days. Now these orals arent the same, or as potent as m1t, but they do shut you down, maybe just not as hard. I dont think that taking these orals period is worth it, more less doing it for 9 days and keeping like 2lbs of your gains.
Flossy, where did you hear about the freshness of the androgen receptors? Not trying to knock what your saying, but everything that I have read says that the life of the receptors is like 1 or 2 days, and receptors are regnerated or reborn (or something like that) within days or even hours. Not sure exactly, but I'll see what I can find.
Originally posted by x muscle:
"Androgen Receptors are recyled all the time. the half life of AR receptors is very short. So refershing recptor is a myth.
What realy happens is that the body will adopt to high levels of androgens by downregulating the AR recptors (decreasing the number), this happens in long and heavy cycles. So if you planning to run a cycle more than 12 weeks you may want to deacrese the dosage toward the end.
After the cycle is done, and you stopped taking any androgens, the body will detect low levels of androge receptos, and act by upregulating it. A rebound may happen to recptors during post cycle therapy (recptor lvels highier than normal), but the body will detect this, and adjust the AR levels to homostasies. I would say it will take the body a month or two to level off and come back to normal."
I'll put the links up later tonight. Ofcourse shutdown occur. M1T is harsh though. But even on three days of test shutdown will occur, but it is the effect on the HPTA and degree of shutdopwn that dictates recovery.
I know- I have read that also. But what ever form of tolerence you would like to call it, I know from my own expirences, after a long SD cycle, then jumping to Phera a little too soon. Couldnt get anything out of it.Originally Posted by idunk42
Again, I realize the short life of a receptor- and the downregulating of receptors thing,.. well,.. the whole possibility of rebound could happen at the same time he would begin the secode 9 days (after the 2 weeks PCT) so,.
Its just from my expirence really, as where the sugestion came from. I have read the studies, so Im not pleading ignorrent here. What I really ment was more along the lines of keep the number of receptors high,.. as he wouldnt be on cycle that long, and could possibly be getting out the first 9 days before the body compensated. Then back in there while in the same condition (being "fresh").
So would your receptors detect it as fresh if it is a different compound say you do two weeks of SD and then two weeks of ergomax?
Would this stimulate it more?
Over training and undereating for one or two weeks before going on cycle will clear your androgen receptors and prime your body for growth. DNP and PGF-2 also has this effect.
HAHAHHAA. i swear to god, the first time i popped two of those underground labs m1t like 2 years ago, i felt my balls immediately shrivel and the sex drive drop within 5 minutes. it was just a sudden immediate loss of libido. sort of like when you get a positive libido rush and feel it down there- BUT the exact opposite.Originally Posted by jmh80
There is a fairly large thread regarding this already (superdrol mini cycles). Dr D and others all showed an interest and thought it was a good idea at the time (2 wk on / 2 wk off, repeat 3 times then full post cycle therapy). some looked at 3/2/3/2 as well..
Although I am not experienced with Superdrol, I can attest to the fact that longer cycles are more easily maintainable, gains-wise. It would stand to reason that your body would become more accustomed to the added mass over this time, opposed to the yo-yo gains and losses that many see on these shorties.
My friend and mentor Chaos turned me on to the 100 day rule, and I ran with it. I maintain MUCH more on cycles of 100 days or over in length.. ( I prefer longer than 100 days, but that's beside the point) Of course this applies to nice friendly oil based AAS.. not those crazy pills you whippersnappers are popping left and right.
I agree with Idunk.. most definitely. This is a good discussion... That being said, I see no harm in shorties.. little burst/pulse-like cycles.. with some gains maintained.... earning a sum collective at the end after a few of them in succession... but I am much more convinced that LONGER injectable cycles will net you the best rewards. (not to mention easier on your system provided you take the appropriate measures)
Since we are on the topic of short SD cycles, has anyone ever experimented with this idea to maintain gains and maximize workouts after a full PCT?
Has anyone tried taking 10mg of superdrol on workout days only? Or possibly only 2 days a week on your big workout days.
The idea would be to get the pump for a good workout as well as the temporary increased protein synthesis for the large post workout meal. Then the superdrol would slowly be eliminated from the body as you recover from the workout and in theory not cause shutdown.
Has anyone ever tried this method of supplementation to gain or preserve lbm? You could use all the classic test boosters along side this method since ideally it wouldn't cause shutdown of the HPTA.
I think SD's ability to rat-pack glycogen is it's best feature. That being sdaid, I dont think I noticed a weight increase due to storrage until around maybe day 3.
IF that were to be done, maybe you could do Mon-Wed taking SD, and the rest off. Get your larger workouts donr first.
HOwever, I do not think that it will be productive though. Long term, maybe.
I was looking forward to tring that, or the "mini" cycles, but it would appear that I just dont respond the same as I first did. I used to have the feeling of being pumped, shoulders ready to explode, but I cant get that anymore it seems.
IT - I think Dr. D said he tried it. Search for his post on it.
My brother ran a 10 day cycle. He was gonna go 21 days, but he felt like ass the last 5 days and didn't want to finish it.
Start Weight: 148lb 5.4% bf
End Weight: 157lb 4.7% bf
End Weight after pct: 156lb 4.6% bf
End Weight 2 weeks after pct: 157lb 5.0% bf
Cycle: 20mg ED for 10 days
PCT: 50mg clomid/20mg nolva ED for 10 days
Food: ~250gm protein, ~400gm carbs, ~40gm fat
Supps: Multi Vitamin, nothing else
Weight: All weighed on a calibrated scale
BF: 3 tests averaged, taken with a bioimpedance monitor
Result: 9.2 lb of muslce gain, .2lb of fat loss
It's been a month or so since he finished pct and he's 158lb and his strength is still way up, its actually higher now than at the end of his cycle.
If I do a cycle, i'm going to limit it to two weeks. I'd rather stick myself for 10 weeks with a 18guage then play chicken with my organs.
Well your brother should consider himself lucky that he didnt go through the whole cycle.
First off, he's only 20 years old. A big no no!! There's a good chance if he would have done the entire cycle, that he would have messed up his endocrine system. Only a multi? Another dumb mistake.
Also, 158? unless he's 5'2, then he could have easily increased his mass very easily with just proper diet and training. So when he started his cycle he only weighed 149lbs???? Definitely could have gained a ton more weight naturally.
Go up to your bro, and say, "thanks for being an idiot, now I know what not to do."
I have no choice but to run a short cycle of SD anything longer and it kicks me in the butt.Not to hijack but someone hit on a point I had been thinking about should you adjust your training during PCT??