PP/Fini Cycle Log of a Novice
02-21-2006 11:25 PM
PP/Fini Cycle Log of a Novice
OK. Here is my log. I started a PP/Fini cycle on Monday 2/20 and Iíll do my best to keep you up on whatís going on. Info on me.
BF 17% oof Looking to be 250 and 4%BF at the end of the cycle. NO PROBLEM! jk
Iím not sure how accurate all of these are but itís a base
biceps 15.5 inches
thigh 22.5 inches
chest 40 inches
waist 35.5 inches
calves 15.5 inches
protein-330-400g (whole foods and shakes)
carbs-250-300g (good sources oatmeal, brown rice, sweet potatoes, ect)
fat-60-80g (olive oil, flaxseed oil)
I preloaded with
1000 Milk Thistle
1200 Red Yeast
565 Hawthorne Berry
450 Sal Palmetto
2000 Flaxseed Oil
PP Ė 1 cap/day before workout for first week then 2 caps/day 1 cap before workout. 1 cap before bed
Fini Ė 6ML for first week then 12ML/day 6ml before workout. 6ml before bed
Perfect Cycle Ė 2 caps/day for first 2 weeks 4 caps/day for last 2 weeks
450 Sal Palmetto
1200 Red Yeast
1130 Hawthorne Berry
2000 Flaxseed Oil
For PCT I will be on Nolva 40,40,20,20 and AX PCT 2caps/day. Iím not sure if this is enough so feedback would be appreciated.
Now some background. Iíve worked out in the past but NOT like I should have been doing. Iím average build and havenít done a whole lot of lifting for about 8 months or so. Then why am I doing the cycle? Why donít I just hit the weights hard and watch the diet? I know some of you are ready to pounce on the keyboard and write about how my gains could have been just about as good if didnít do the cycle and just worked hard in the gym with a good diet. Well, I was so intrigued by all that Iíve read on this site that I couldnít help myself. And Iím SURE thereís someone else out there just like me that may be Ďlurkingí on this board but isnít sure whether they should go for it. You think things like ĎThese guys are hardcore, theyíve been doing it for so long that my results will pale in comparison to what they achieveí or ĎI havenít even looked at a gym in so long that Iím not sure a cycle will help meí. Iím here to find out just whatís possible. Iíve done the dietÖ.but not a REAL diet. Iíve worked with different supplementsÖ.but not REAL supplements. So Iím gonna give it a whirl. An average guy with average genetics and an average build thatís just average. I participate in all kinds of rec league sports here in my town but I didnít play High School or College anything. Nothing special here at all. Iíve been keeping a daily log the last 2 days so they will be posted in the next section. PLEASE feel free to suggest things or changes that may be of benefit.
02-21-2006 11:26 PM
First day! Shouldnít have mixed Olive Oil with my breakfast (carbs/fats) but oh well, 1 day shouldnít hurt anything. Superman shake was tasty (no oil) and Iím looking forward to getting back into working out again. I could go on a commercial Ďcause IíM FULL! Dang, all this eating is hard to get used to.
1st workout went well. I hate legs. My head hurts a little but I think itís from doing legs and getting dizzy. Did I mention I hate legs? Rest of the day went pretty smoothly and Iím looking forward to getting 20 hours of sleep. Iím TIRED! I wonít get 20 but Iíll settle for 9ish. I still have my headache at 9PM. Hope those don't continue throughout this cycle.
02-21-2006 11:32 PM
Headache is gone and I slept like a baby. I wasn't sure I would be able to get to sleep 'cause I was miserable from eating so much. I was actually hungry when I got up so it's back at it with all the food. On my first day I was 47/33/20 and I'd like to be 40/40/20 so what's a guy to do? Cook 2lbs of wheat spaghetti! That should help get the carbs up a little. Sure beats eating 3,000,000g of broccoli.
Just had another Superman shake WITH the olive oil added this time and it looks like I'm gonna be having another one in about 10 minutes 'cause I don't think I can keep this one down! I'm about to make my own salad dressing all over my shoes! YUCK! I'm NOT doing that again. I'll take the oil straight and leave it out of the shake.
Workout went AWESOME. I FEEL GOOD!! (duh na na na na na na) I didnít get tired at all between sets. Not sure if it was the PP/Fini or the change in diet but whatever it was Iím happy. No headaches today. Appetite is starting to go into overdrive and the body is adjusting. Having a hard time not mixing occasional carbs/fat for a meal. Not very often....maybe 1 meal a day. Wondering if it will affect my fat gains. I want to build mass and still lose weight but I'm not sure where that balance is. Maybe 45/40/15? I'm not taking any carbs after about 7 at night and I'm trying to get 3 days of cardio in a week. Need to take off some of this 17% lard I'm carrying around.
Off day tomorrow so no updates for a couple.
02-22-2006 12:49 PM
Itís my day off but Iíll give a short update. Body feels pretty good today. I was expecting more pain from my legs since I havenít done much in the last 8 months. Thereís some minor aches and pains but nothing unbearable.
I am changing my workout a little since talking to one of the guys on this board. Heís the Winner of North Americaís ĎBig Arms 2005 Tournament of Championsí and publisher of the book ĎSee My Hugeness, Be My Hugenessí. His name is Diplomats and heís been a BIG help so far. Answered all of my questions and his log is very well done. Good info and the guyís a damn human guinea pig with all the supps he stacks. The mods should give him 1000 rep points for being so patient answering all of my questions so far. He gave me a workout to try so Iíll be doing that for the next few weeks. Iím having lunch with some friends today so eating should be interesting. I donít want to cheat since I just started this diet. I may not eat and may chug a shake or eat a bar on my way back to work. Maybe I can get a grilled chicken breast with nothing else on it? Hmmmm. More tomorrow.
02-23-2006 04:10 PM
Hey i'm thinking about doing the same cycle... I plan on cutting and useing different dosages...
Week 1 20mg PP / 12 Fini
Week 2 20mg PP / 12 Fini
Week 3 30mg PP / 18 Fini
Week 4 30mg PP / 18 Fini
Let me know how you respond to your dosages, so i dont use to much... And on how shut down you are as well...
02-23-2006 04:31 PM
I've read a lot of different PP cycles and read up on as much as I could before starting this stuff and everything I've read has pointed to 30mg of PP not helping in just about every case of those that went to 30mg. Some even found that it hindered more than anything. At this point I would highly recommend staying with 20mg since you're stacking it with Fini and the fact that you're only 20 years old. I wouldn't go above 12 on the Fini either since you're stacking with PP......and because you're 20! I may have a different opinion in 3 weeks but for right now I'd suggest you go with 10/20/20/20 on the PP and 6-12/12/12/12 on the Fini for your cycle. Re-evaluate in the 2-3 week part of your cycle on whether or not you should up the Fini. Depending on you weight, size, ect. I'd also suggest maybe throwing a question or 2 past Diplomats or some others on what they suggest since they're the real experts in this. I'd also look into a really good PCT. I'm still not convinced that what I'm going to be using for my PCT is all that I should be doing. I know the Nolva is a sure thing but I'm wondering if there's some other stuff I should be looking into as well. I haven't had any feedback on that part of my cycle yet.
Originally Posted by Jakspro
I will let you know every step of the way how things are going and how it all turns out. I'm finding that keeping a log is a really nice way to track things and it forces me to keep up on my progress a lot more. Keep popping in from time to time!
02-23-2006 06:47 PM
Very True about staying at 20mgs... I've also read the same, but on other boards others highly recommended going to 30mg, but you also brought up another good point, I am only 20 years old...
About the Fini though, i heard it was an extremely weak compound, thus is why i wanted to go with a higher dosage. And most importantly I'm Cutting... Which is why i'm scept to use PP in the first place for this cycle. (I dont want to hi-jack your thread, so enough about that)
Now, are you experiancing any bloat? I'd assume that Fini would sorta limit that, but still PP is known to blow you up...
And if you are, are you taking Nolva during cycle? Gyno prevention as well, not to mention it could lower your blood Pressure.... Speaking of which, what was your BP before cycle, and how is it on?
Mine gets REALLY high, even on Clen i have to take Celery and Hawthorne...
For PCT, mine will go L-Dex, Clomid, Nolva, Retain, Tong Kat, Trib... Dunno if thats enough or too much... All i know is that i got SHUT DOWN on Max LMG (Only previous cycle, ran it solo as well)...
02-23-2006 08:54 PM
Hmmmm....I hadn't read that about the Fini. I would still suggest you stay at 12 for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. If you're still making gains then I wouldn't move. If not, then think about moving up to 18 and/or try increasing your cals/day with more proteins. You may even be able to run Fini for 6 weeks instead of 4. Once again, I'm not the expert so ask around. I'm not cutting but I'd sure LOVE to lose a few lbs of fat while on the cycle. This 17%BF sux! A couple of years ago I was 7%. I can't believe how much I've let myself go. But I digress. I wouldn't know what to tell you on the cutting part.
Originally Posted by Jakspro
So far no bloat. I think I look bloated before going to bed at night but in the mornings I swear I've lost a little weight. Might be an optical illusion but I haven't had any bloating issues as of yet. Mind you I'm only 4 days into it so far.
Originally Posted by Jakspro
I'm not taking Nolva during cycle but I do have it for gyno emergencies and for PCT. This is my first cycle so I don't know if I'm prone to gyno so I'm just waiting to see what happens. I've done some reading and I may actually get another bottle and use the one I have now for preventive medicine.
My BP was great before I started and it's still great now. I"ve always had good luck with BP. I'll let you know if any of that changes in the next couple of weeks.
Everything I've seen so far is that PP is a great cycle with little to no shut down like some of the other stuff out there. When I hit that point I'll still be logging and I'll keep you informed.
02-23-2006 09:04 PM
Ready for another day! Iím a little more sore today even after having a day off but still not as bad as I thought I would be. Iíve been doing a lot of stretching at night and I think thatís helped. With the exception of one whiz a night Iíve been sleeping REALLY well. I feel great in the mornings.
Workout went well. Iím so frickiní weak at chest exercises. I guess I really need to strengthen my shoulders. They tire before anything else does. I still had good recovery between sets and was very focused. No adverse effects to report of so far. My appetite is good and Iím not feeling so Ďfull I could pukeí after a meal with solid foods. I do get a little bloated after shakes and protein bars because I take in a lot of water at that time but the solid meals are getting easier to finish and Iím not asking myself ďHow in the heck am I gonna eat another meal in 2-3 hours!Ē Iím starting to get the whole diet thing figured out and am now closer to 43/37/20. The FitDay thing is the shizz-nit! Kind of a pain to get it setup at first but MAN what a huge help.
Iím a little fatigued tonight but I think my body is still adjusting to the heavy lifting from the workouts. Canít wait to hit the sack and get started again tomorrow. Itís hard not to want to jack my PP up to 20 and the Fini up to 12 right now but Iím gonna be patient. I know it takes some time for everything to kick in. I wish I was on day 24 instead of 4. I'll be posting weight and strength gains on Monday since that's the end of week 1. I'm almost embarrased to post my starting lifting weights but hey, ya gotta start somewhere! Besides, my 6 year old daughter braids my hair for entertainment so I have no pride left.
02-24-2006 05:14 PM
Woke up this morning with some tightness in my chest. Iím 99% sure itís from my workout yesterday but Iím keeping an eye on it. BP is good. Weíll see how the day goes.
Workout went well again. I was little more fatigued at the end of this one than I had been at the end of the others but maybe itís the whole week catching up to me. I did some lat raises (which I also did earlier in the week) and my numbers are up on them so it appears my strength is slowly coming along. The tightness in my chest is better this afternoon but my boobies hurt from the chest workout yesterday. Iím sure thatís where the tightness came from. Yawning a little more this afternoon than the rest of the week and it seems my body is still active but at the same time exhausted. Weird. Maybe itís because itís late afternoon and my body knows itís time to go home for the day. Tomorrow Iíll do my last workout of the week, take Sunday off, and then start again on Mon. Iíll know more then about strength gains, weight gains, ect. Iíll also start posting starting workout weights, current workout weights, what exercises Iím doing and when. Thereís a reason most people donít post their first weekís logÖÖpretty boring so far.
02-26-2006 09:03 PM
Itís Sun night and I havenít updated so I need to catch up. Not many people following this up to now so itís not a big deal but I need to keep on it for myself. Good workout again. Mostly isolation exercises per Diplomats workout he gave me. Biceps and triceps. I periodically throw in abs and calves during the week as I have time and depending on how I feel. Doesnít feel like Iím necessarily getting the recuperation between sets like I have been most of the week but still a good day. Dietís easier to keep up with today since I have the day off. Iím driving my wife crazy because I have to Ďeat at this timeí and Ďit has to be thisí. Sheíll get used to it. Only about 7 or so weeks to go.
02-26-2006 09:31 PM
I was happy to take today off. My muscles needed the rest. I took some softball BP this afternoon which helped take my mind off of working out and my diet for a while.
First week is over and so here are my observations. I seem a little fuller but Iím convinced itís just water weight at this point. I donít see any strength gains yet. No extra vascularity. No Ďfullí pumps this week at all even though I havenít seriously lifted in quite a while. If I had it to do all over again I would have lifted for a good 2-4 weeks before starting the cycle just to get back some of the strength gains I had from before. I havenít had any adverse effects all week so Iím looking forward to going to 20 on the PP and 12 on the Fini tomorrow.
Quick update just before bed. Truth isÖ..Iím kinda depressed. I weighed myself tonight and Iím up 5lbs. Unfortunately, according to the Accu-Measure 2000 Iím also up 2-3% on my BF! So if my math is rightÖ.hmmmmÖ..yep. On 200lbs thatís 5lbs of BF. So much for the 'fullness' being water weight. Yippee. I gained a bunch of fat this week. Just what I didnít need. I had my BF measured at the Y the first time with a personal trainer and a really good caliper. 3 spots for the measurement. Came in at between 17-18% which makes me think the Accu Measure reading is right. Weighed myself on the same scale to eliminate error from that. Frustrating. For anyone reading this, is this normal? Iím taking in about 3400-3500 cals/day, day desk job, only real cardio this week was from working out. Only things I ate all week were oats, Big 100 bars, Myoplex shakes, grilled chicken breasts, wheat spaghetti, olive oil, canned tuna in water, fat free milk, raw broccoli, ON Whey protein shakes, Muscle Milk and some occasional fat free cottage cheese and an apple before bed. The split was about 45% Proteins, 35% Carbs, 20% Fats. ANY ideas? HELP! More cardio? Less carbs and fats? A mix of the two? I wanna gain but I donít want it all to be fat?!?! Damn. Nice way to end the week.
02-27-2006 11:30 AM
The thing about the fat gain is strange. Maybe the PP is taking longer to kick in. It didn't fully kick in for me until day 8 or 9, thats why longer cycles of PP are recommended, 4 weeks instead of 3.
Make sure your putting out the workload for all you eat. On PP you can get away with working out more frequently then you normally do.
Give it a few days, I'm sure you'll see some positive effects start happening!
02-27-2006 12:13 PM
Thanks. I was REALLY frustrated last night but I'm not gonna let that get me down. I have to remember that it's only been 1 week so there's no reason to panic just yet. I'm stepping up to 20 on the PP and 12 on the Fini so we'll see how things look at the end of the week. I posted this on Diplomats log and I'll post it here as well for anyone interested. This is my first week's log of the foods I ate. A little more info on it includes the fact that I start eating about 8 in the morning and finish about 9 or so at night. 6 meals. Foods are in the order that I ate them. I have my workouts about 1 hour after the 'protein oatmeal shake' (which is a superman shake without the oil). The myoplex mixed with a scoop of ON whey and occasional dextrose are my post workout shakes. Meals are approx 8, 10:30, 1, 3:30, 6, 8:30. Little to no carbs after 7PM. I haven't been doing much if any cardio and I have a desk job.
02-27-2006 10:23 PM
Iíve decided not to get too caught up on the weight thing. Itís just one week and Iím curious to see what happens in the next 3 sooooooooooÖÖÖundaunted by my 5lb weight gain Iím once again ready to hit the gym for leg day. Have I mentioned how much I hate doing legs? With the PP/Fini coursing through my veins I hammered out my first few sets of squats and surprisingly enough all of my lifts were up. I can tell my lower back needs work. It was fatigued going into the 3 working set but I still managed to get the reps I was looking for. Weight was up and reps were too. Taking the taurine before and after workouts I think will help me a lot on leg exercises among others that put strain on the back. Eating the 3300-3500 cals are getting pretty easy now that my body has been adjusting for a week. Iím not sure it will be easy going back to a normal intake when this is all over. Iím growing fond of those oatmeal protein shakes. Here are my numbers from a week ago on todayís lifts.
Squats 2 warmup sets, working sets 12x165E, 9x185M, 6x215H
WellÖ..thatís all I have to report from last week. I changed my workout routine on Tues the 21th so I have nothing to compare some of my exercises to. On the 20th I also did Deadlifts but now I do those on Thursdays. The ĎEí ĎMí ĎHí I put behind the numbers tell me how difficult the last rep was for that weight. Easy, Medium, Hard. It helps me to look back and know if the 12th rep at 165 was hard for me to get up or not. I could have done more pretty easily but stopped. This helps me the following week when I get ready to start my working sets so that I donít start too low. As you can see the 6 reps at 215 I had a hard time getting the last rep out and probably couldnít have got another one.
Squats 2 warmup sets, working sets 12x185M, 8x225H, 8x225H (not a bad change from the 20th!)
I also did leg presses, leg curls (since we donít have a hack squat machineÖÖgood griefÖ..who doesnít have a hack squat machine?!?! I may change these to lunges or something else) and standing calf raises. I guess I can give you my numbers on the calf raises.
Standing Calf Raises 2 warmup sets, working sets 12x160E, 10x200M, 8x240H
Standing Calf Raises 2 warmup sets, working sets 12x200E, 10x240M, 8x280H
Standing Calf Raises 2 warmup sets, working sets 12x240M, 9x280H, 7x300H (stack)
Thatís a pretty good 1 week diff. Still weak compared to most of you guys out there but I had to start somewhere! More tomorrow.
02-27-2006 10:29 PM
HEY! I just noticed that I actually got a rep point from someone! Thanks to whoever took the time to send the comment!
02-28-2006 12:59 PM
Dude do not let that 5 pound gain get to you, i am very sure that it is dude to water retention, because you just started eating more and training harder. Give it 2 more weeks and you will feel the POWER of stacking both compounds. Like i said if the 5 pounds worry you toomuch, do cardio 3 time a week. So you are getting to like my oatmeal shakes huh, You can also do them with gatorade, or apple juice for added Vitamine C. Have fun. YOU WILL GROW, trust me. Keep at it.
Holla at me if anything. Great log
02-28-2006 01:12 PM
Ahhhhh! The great master has visited his humble students log!
Originally Posted by diplomats
Thanks for visiting Dips. For any of you that haven't read Diplomats log you REALLY need to. Lots of VERY good info. He just recently posted new pics on page 13 of his log (page 13.....Holy crap!) and you should see this guy. He's a monster. HUGE arms. Keep up the good work Dips.
02-28-2006 02:05 PM
He,he. Thanks a bunch for the compliments bro, but one thing, i am still a student, still learning bro, just like you and most of the people here on this board.
Originally Posted by Smallone
Thanks again bro, i really appreciate it
Like i said anyway i can help, please do not hesitate
02-28-2006 02:21 PM
And the winner is.......diplo....no sorry wrong name the winner is ..SMALLONE. No really dude your funny men, oh i will be mailing you the trophy.
Originally Posted by Smallone
Eat clean, when you feel the urge to cheat drink a protein shake, eat a protein bar, eat a banana, DO NOT INDULGE IN BAD EATING event if you might think that you are on the best stack possible, do not eat ****ty. Eating clean while on a good stack such as this what will differentiate you from countless others who think they can cheat here and there, because Phera-plex, finigenx, superdrol, will help. Control your cravings are you will be shocked at the end of this stack.
Lol at the human "Guinea pig" post. I cannot argue with you on that, i have to find out what works for me men. Right now i am really loving X-factor...
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