High Dose mohn/3alpha cycle + GVT

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  1. Arrow High Dose mohn/3alpha cycle + GVT

    Hey Out there. I've just started this new cycle and I'm gonna log it here.
    My cycle will include:
    wk1-2 [email protected]/600mgs 4ad/300mgs 3alpha(orally) ed
    wk 3-9 [email protected] ramped up peaking at wk5/[email protected] 3alpha(orally)/[email protected]

    The purpose for these compounds is that
    1.I've done a lot a research on mohn and it has the benefits i'm looking for in a ph/ps.
    2. 3alpha is added for additional strength gains and also for the reasoning of drying out the m1t bloat, m5aa would have been good for this also but it being a methyl i didn't want to chance it. Also 3alpha's synergistic value on the receptors is a added plus in the fact it will amplify the 4ad in the stack. The androgenic nature of this stack is on purpose b/c I want to achieve the leanest gains possible.
    3. The High dose of Mohn is for 2 reasons. The first one being that I know of a couple of guys that used up to 100mgs and it being a very good dry bulker albeit at the time a wallet breaker, but I'm curious to see what effects could be achieved with a dose up to 150mgs. I will be getting blood work done all through this cycle.
    The second reason is the strength side. A combination of 3alpha/4ad with the high dose mohn should definitely yield high strength gains and very good lean muscle.
    4.The M1t is just a jumpstarter, It doesn't affect me as far as sides and my liver values don't get as elevated as some peoples bloodwork shows, but i use very full and complete liver support on all my cycles. This makes the difference.

    The Bio:
    Past Cycles: 5-6
    Best Ph cycle: 200mgs m14add,1000mgs 4ad, 900mgs 1ad for 6 weeks.
    Age 25
    Height 6'3"
    Weight 250 (bodyfat will be measured tommorrow but i will estimate at 18%)
    Diet 50/30/20 pro/carb/fat
    Before and after pics wil be posted at end of cycle.
    Pct Products on hand.
    I started today but it's hella late and I will start the post tommorrow with body measurement stats, body fat stats, mood, The start of GVT, and other baselines.
    Thank you for your imput.

  2. subscribe........

  3. Day 2

    Took measurements:
    Arms 18"
    chest 47"
    Calfs 16"
    Thighs' 27"

    Started 20mgs of m1t and 300mgs orally 3alpha/600mgs 4ad

    The most noticeable thing this early is increased tightness in the muscles. Very tight pump. Strength is up in the sense of muscular endurance so far but not in weight. But it's to early to quantify that anyway.
    Libido feels weird. I'm mentally more horny but not running around on a hard like usual. Probably suppression setting in.
    I really think the 3alpha is gonna help the water on this stack, because by the 3rd day or so the water weight is noticeable.
    My workouts are going to change to the modified gvt style next week. I think a lot of people are waiting until that and the high doses of mohn come in to really zone in on this thread.
    The Purpose of this cycle is recomp and strength so here are some lifts so we can better track the gains or losses.
    Bench Press: 315x1
    Squat: 275x12 (never go to low on reps)
    Bodyweight chinsx5 (with the widest grip possible)
    Dips Bodyweight+60lbs x4

    Weight: 250-no gain
    Strength: Muscular endurance, increase of reps with said weights.

    Mood: Somewhat upbeat not a whole lot. It's amplified after every dose of the 3alpha.

    Well being:Blood Pressures up but not to bad. I feel "on" but not as messed up as the m1t normally makes me feel. Somewhat lethargic but not tired, but my mind seems to wander a lil more outside of the gym. It doesn't affect much, but i notice it because i do so much in a day, when i look up and i'm not doing anything or I just stopped in the middle of something, i know it's there.

    Additional supps: Taurine, Milk thistle, Nac, multi.

    I will update the main part of the log every Wednesday. And log in any pertinent news in between. Thanks.

    P.S. For any of the members in the know what exactly is the half-life of 3alpha?

  4. Well it's day 6 and I've noticed no bloat at all on the m1t/3alpha/4ad. And that's beautifull, I've never been this dry before any other time i took m1t, I feel a pronounced pump 24/7. Strength has been very good I still haven't tested anything on the upper end only on sets and reps.
    Even with 4ad the lethargy is a little more noticeable, but it's only there when I'm idle. If i'm doing something it's all go, But as soon as slow down and relax that's it.
    My appetite has been suppressed somewhat but that's nothing new with m1t, my way around that is the introduction of more shakes and it always equals out and there easier to handle with the appetite suppression.
    I checked my amount of mohn i have on stock and it's actually just enough for 4weeks @ 100mgs a day. Seeing as this is coming from behind the m1t that should be sufficient.
    I start the modified GVT Monday which should be really cool. I'm so looking forward to the intensity.
    My other supps:
    [email protected] 2000mgs ed
    Saw [email protected] ed
    [email protected] ed

    I will be upping my protein around 450-500grms ed,during the GVT to compensate for the added intensity and fuel which I think will be some very lean gains.

    -No one cares about the thread
    -This is so far the leanest M1t started cycle I've done.
    -no pronounced prostate issues
    -Increases in strength endurance
    -tight hard all day pump
    -off and on lethargy
    -appetite suppression

    -Very Positive results, the drying of the m1t/3alpha is very nice.
    -I think some carb adjustments and timing with the 100mgs of mohn and GVT should yield a very nice if not awesome recomp and affect on total fat loss and muscle gains.
    Thanks again.
  5. The addition of Optimized Volume Training!

    What's up People in anabolic land. I'm back after 3days off. The 3days off was due to the type of split i was doing to recondition. Well I'm as reconditioned as I'm gonna get and it's time to up the intensity!!!

    For those that don't know what Optimized Volume Training is it's a style of german volume training geared more toward strength and size. With regular german volume training some lose strength but gain great size.But I don't want to built just for show, I want to go too!!
    Another complaint of Gvt over Ovt is the occurance of over use injuries. See gvt is the 10x10 method, Ovt is a superset fest of 5x5's. 90-120sec rest in between supers.
    I started today and I'll show you the exact numbers i did:

    1st 5 supersets
    Incline Bench Press:5x5 -135lbs
    Incline dumbell flys 5x5- 30lbs

    (the key in the second half of the super is that you have a 6sec negative and explosive positive, also on the incline my shoulders felt real uneasy so i went light, but as soon as i was done with 3supers the bastards warmed up. Next time I'll make sure to warm up a little better.)

    2nd 5 supersets
    Flat Bench Press:5x5-205lbs
    Flat flyes 5x5-30lbs

    (What I noticed here was the little time of rest and the intensity of this workout really dosen't allow you to get to stupid with the weights, but let me tell you they start to feel really heavy on the 3rd or 4th super. My other normal training partners looked at me like i was crazy when they saw me pick up the 30's for flyes when I usually use the 60's or 70's but that 6sec negative is a killer!!!)

    3rd 5 supersets:
    Lat Pulldown 5x5 200lbs
    1 arm row 5x5 80lb dumbells last super with 90's

    (This is where things got nuts After all the chest work I was burnt, then I went to back and actually got stronger!!! By this time I got one of those whole upper body pumps like arnold used to talk about and was it great.)

    4th 5 supersets:
    Bent Over Barbell row 5x5 205lbs, last 2supers with 225(personal record)
    Seated Cable row 5x5 150lbs

    (Now seeing as Bent over rows is a major compound lift, i thought i would have just died at it after all the other supers, but some totally nuts happed i broke a personal best in the lift by 40lbs!!!!Unbelievable. The best I did with bent over row up until then was 185x6, then after 20 supers i beat it by 40lbs!!!!The seated cable rows with the 6sec. negative really finished me off good and took another level of concentration and discipline to let it burn me up!)

    My thoughts and Feelings on the cycles effect on the workout and body comp:

    It's currently day 8 of the cycle. M1t stacked with 3alpha/4ad. Has been so far the best cycle I done. The 3alpha has kept the water down tremendously. I'm up to 256 and everybody In the gym is like, "Hey man you losing weight and toning up, huh? The strength and increased endurance can be shown with the 1st day of the Ovt and the poundages, granted I was through after the last set, but man did I feel great, very strong,pumped and powerful.
    So far the lower back pumps are still nonexistent, I really think 3alpha was the thing to take with m1t for best gains but the cycle isn't over and we should really have fun during the 4weeks of 100mgs of mohn!
    The m1t still murders my appetite. But I still eat and keep it clean as possible. With the addition of this training, Protein consumption will definitely need to be increased for recovery and fuel needs, but that's good with me.
    The only noticeable bad sides are head aches, and there the high bp kind. Not to bad and the subside quickly.

    My thoughts on my first experience with OVT:

    I feel like just from the 1st workout that this is a workout style that can maximize gains while on. It is very intense, predicated, and fun. It's very challenging and fulfilling to finish and still have a pulse! Well I got 8weeks of this style training and 5-6weeks left of cycling. Those extra 2weeks of pct will judge how many of the gains will stick around. Thanks alot tommorrow legs and abs OVT style.

  6. High doses of mohn starts

    Hi out there it's funny I'm starting to think I'm posting this for the hell of it, seems like me and 2 other folks are checking it out. Oh well
    This upcoming week starts the high doses of mohn.
    My protocol goes as follows:
    wk 1-50mgs for 3 days Then 75mgs for 2 then 100mgs on.
    wk 2-100mgs ed all week
    wk3- 150mgs per day all week
    wk4-3days at 100mgs, 2days at 75mgs,2days at 50mgs finished.
    3alpha will be ran 300mgs per day orally until i receive transdermal then i will do 200mgs transdermally. I haven't decided will i add the 4ad but it's strong possibility of 600mgs transdermally.

    The first week of Ovtraining has been a learning experience in disicipline and hard work. You don't rest you don't recouperate, that's it. No cycles gon save you. You don't up your calories you don't recouperate, that's it.
    I've seen what the m1t/3alpha/4ad could do with this program i'm almost giddy to see what the high doses of mohn will do. Money has been tight lately and it's been harder than ever for me to get real food protein in the amounts I would like. So Me and the shakes have become well acquainted.
    I think what will suck more than anything is if this cycle is a success because i don't have anymore mohn left and it's not out there anymore.

    Somethings I've noticed:
    -A little Pain in the kidney area in the back side but it's hard to differentiate it from muscle soreness or strain.
    -Doing Vacuums everday strengthens your core very fast and it's fun to see just how far in or how long you can hold them!
    -I would say that the growth hormone release from the OVT training has really helped my legs, this early i already notice a difference.
    -My weight is up 4lbs but I'm noticeable leaner. I would say that i've lost about 10lbs which should have me at 14lbs up!!
    -Up until now going to sleep has been progressively harder. Once I go when i wake up something is always numb or uncomfortable.
    -With the androgenic effects of the 3alpha and m1t i was expecting serious balding. Ziltch, zero, nada to be honest I think i grew some!
    -My training is in full check, but this I think is where it becomes even more important to realize the effectiveness of this cycle to keep my diet full and clean. High Protein moderate carbs, moderate good fats.

    Any opinions or questions are cool with me. Laterski.

  7. this thread is gold bro....i have a crapload (5g) of mohn and am planning on a high dose recomp in the spring/summer with clen.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by t_dot_porkchop
    this thread is gold bro....i have a crapload (5g) of mohn and am planning on a high dose recomp in the spring/summer with clen.
    It may be Platinum if it works how we think it will!!!

  9. I been searchin around a little more, do you think 4 weeks will do? I've seen alot of people saying it kicks in after 10days or so.
    I think this may be to the fact of the dosing. I'm thinking 4 weeks at that dose should be ideal for effectiveness and safety.
    But I don't want the stack to just be kicking in and I only have 2 weeks worth left.
    Something to ponder i guess?

  10. Hey Brotha,
    You seem to be a big fella who knows what he's doing, but I'd like to remind you that you are doing I think it was 9 weeks of methyls. I would highly recommend you getting some bloodwork done. You seem to know what to take with the correct dosages, but no where in your thread did you mention that doing 9 weeks of methyls is unwise. Which it is. Before you brag about the gains which you should have and that is AWESOME, make sure you explain to the kiddies reading this, they shouldn't do what you are writing. Not trying to shame or flame, just making sure joe blow reader knows this is an extreme cycle. Not one I'd do or recommend.

    Best of luck, please get some bloodwork done for us poor saps who aren't in your shoes. I'd kill any neighbor of mine for 5 grams of M4ohn, some of them for even less. LOL
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html

  11. Quote Originally Posted by motiv8er
    Hey Brotha,
    You seem to be a big fella who knows what he's doing, but I'd like to remind you that you are doing I think it was 9 weeks of methyls. I would highly recommend you getting some bloodwork done. You seem to know what to take with the correct dosages, but no where in your thread did you mention that doing 9 weeks of methyls is unwise. Which it is. Before you brag about the gains which you should have and that is AWESOME, make sure you explain to the kiddies reading this, they shouldn't do what you are writing. Not trying to shame or flame, just making sure joe blow reader knows this is an extreme cycle. Not one I'd do or recommend.

    Best of luck, please get some bloodwork done for us poor saps who aren't in your shoes. I'd kill any neighbor of mine for 5 grams of M4ohn, some of them for even less. LOL
    Hey motiv8er you are totally right. I am a very strong advocate of risk and consequence.If you don't understand and can handle the consequence don't even think about trying some of the things more experienced guys will.
    Also I'm sorry that I didn't edit my post I actually will only be doing 6 total weeks of the methyls. As it would be very unwise regardless of the experience level. Bodybuilding is about being strong and big, but healthy also.
    I'm waiting on a bloodwork kit, as of right now and I'm very interested to keep this monitored.
    One thing I noticed floating around some of the boards on the net is too many people don't put any importance into excercise science and nutrition.
    I liken it to having a racecar with a 1000hp engine, but not truly knowing how to drive it and not knowing which fuel is best for it. If the driver took time to learn to drive optimally (the workout) and put the best grade fuel( the nutrition) then he could really see the best at it's best( the body).
    I never understood why a guy would do a maintence style workout while "on". You have increased recouperation, increased protein synthesis, increased aggression. Hell this is THE time to try a ballbreaking program to maximize the gains.
    As Motiv8er said they're real risk to this cycle, such as:
    -Jaudice like symptons from liver stress.
    -chance of gyno
    -Prostate issues with the andronicity of the cycle.
    Or a host of possible things. So if you haven't done at least I would say 40-60 hours of research on a new supplement or aas/ph/ps, you haven't done enough and you don't know enough about it. laterski.

  12. I'm back and it's like 5:00am and I can't sleep so i figured i'd update the first day at 50mgs of mohn.
    Well as you might have expected didn't feel to much but i was extremely pumped during my workout today.
    I didn't have any ill effects to report. One thing that struck me as odd but i think it's just my mind playing tricks on me is that when I looked in the mirror i thought i looked smaller but the scale has me up 6lbs! For those following this cycle know that this is a recomp and my fat has been going down but this was kinda weird.
    I still think this is gonna be nice with the style of training i'm doing.

    The OVT update: Week 2
    Well as you may know this is chest/back day and it's still 20supersets with 90secs-120secs rest between supers. Boy it hurts so good.
    Remember all supersets are 5reps and every second exercise in the superset has a 6sec negative. Got it, let's go!

    1st 5 supersets:
    Incline bench- 155,175,195,185,185
    Incline flyes-35lbs

    The flyes got progressively easier but the stretch and burn is still intense.

    2nd 5 supersets:
    Flat Bench-225,225,225,225,235
    Flat flyes-35lbs

    In the ovt program the goal is to constantly add poundage to your 1st exercise in the superset, I've been able to do that. They say it's not of the utmost importance to add weight to the second. I want to but 35lb flyes with the negatives are doing the job.

    3rd 5 supersets:
    Wide grip chin(palms out) bw,bw,10lbs,10lbs,25lbs
    1 arm dumbell row 80lbs,90lbs,90lbs,90lbs,90lbs

    This is where i felt my most improvement. The original protocol calls for lat pulldowns. Up untill now I couldn't even do bodyweight wide chins, and for me to be able to add weight for my last superset felt damn good!!! This made the superset even more intense and gratifying.

    4th 5supersets:
    Barbell bent over row:185,205,205
    Cable row: 150,140,140

    I couldn't get my last 2 supers in because the gym closed on me. I was pissed but i was running on fumes by then and was about done.

    My accessment:

    Well I stuck to the program and made improvements on everything but the Barbell rows but next week I'll get it. I'm really focusing in on rasing my protein levels to put on the lean mass. But tommorrow or today (tuesday) is leg day by far the hardest of all the days and this is the night I can't sleep. It figures, but I'll do the best I can and have fun doing it.

    Todays dosing schedule:
    50mgs of mohn (4 split doses)
    300mgs 3alpha orally (2 split doses)
    900mgs 4ad orally (3 split doses)

  13. congrats shyguy, im sure its no jeddi mind trick, but rather the results of your recomp efforts..dropping the fat but adding muscle will move the scale like that for ya!
  14. Word to wise get rest.

    Hey I'm back and as burnt out as humanly possible.
    Remember last night when i wrote my log at like 5:00am. Well today was leg day in my Ovt training and it killed me. My energy levels were screwed up.
    It's funny they didn't totally die out until I broke a personal best on the squat within the supersets.
    By not getting enough rest last night, today I felt the beginnings of overtraining. That would really suck because I was on a roll. But you have to let your body catch up to your mind sometimes.
    Did another 50mgs of mohn, felt fine with it. Actually the few pains in my sides are gone so that's cool. By me not getting much rest the last two days i couldn't hold a pump today, but what i did was make this a excuse to get some extra protein calories in.

    I did back squats today and I was able to do 315x10 within the supersets!!!
    What makes this more impressive is I couldn't do it before this program without 5supersets surrounding it!
    But i was so drained to day that I only completed 10 of 15 supersets required in the protocol.
    Tommorrow is the off day in the program. So I'll take this opportunity to rest and eat. I'm a cram a ton of vitamin C and other antioxidants to get back up to par.

  15. Hola and hello out there.
    This is shyguy1 updating the hottest thread in the world.... well maybe not but it's the most important to me right now.

    Anyway this was my arm day in the Ovt Training and now I'm currently up to 75mgs a day on the mohn.

    Those that were following the log, know I was starting to feel overtrained and a little sick. But after a seriously high dosage of vitamin c, along with some more antioxidants, the champ is back and roaring to go.

    Something that's definitely good to report is that the higher doses of mohn haven't been bothering me. There have not been any gyno type symptons.
    One negative side affect that I've noticed with this stack is getting to sleep is impossible, then getting up is worst.
    A good thing has been the increase in appetite. I have never been able to eat as much as I have on this cycle. I'm pretty proud of how clean the diets been with the amount of food and I'm happy with it.
    Since I felt like I was overtraining, I decided to go a little easy on today for arms, and you know what? It made a world of difference. I don't feel all clammy and burnt and I feel like I'll recover a whole lot bettter.

    The OVT is so demanding, I'm trying to figure a way to incorporate abs in 3 days instead of the prescribed 1 per week. This is hard because I overtrained doing abs once so how will I be able to get in 2 more sessions?
    Some would probably say just wait until the 8weeks of Ovt are over then focus on your abs, but screw that! How good really is a recomp if you don't get some boomin' abs to complete the picture!
    Another thing that sucks is I have tendonitis in my left forearm and It makes barbell curl work extremely painful. For the Pct( and a serious PCT it will be!) I will be getting some cissus in the mix. I'm really hoping this stuff works for me because the tendonitis affects me outside the gym too. And to be 25 and hurting isn't cool.

    The Summary:

    Higher doses of mohn/3alpha/4ad:
    -can't sleep
    -can't get up
    -hungry as hell
    -up 7lbs and noticeable leaner
    -With 2grms of milkthistle,1.5grms of Nac and a host of other vitamins and minerals general health has been good besides the overtraining stint.

    -Get rest or you'll die.
    -Eat alot or you'll die.
    -But If you do both, you'll get very strong strength and endurance wise.(This may not be awesome to some of you more experienced but on one of the off days from the program I was able to do 135x49reps! That was cool for me because prior to the program the most I did it was for 26. After the OVT program I'm going for a 225 program, I got to get it for 25 good clean reps, I like stuff like that.)
    -Your training partners will die off everyweek.
    -It can help you build discipline with your workout, diet, and rest.( It's such a physically and mentally demanding style that if you don't eat right and sleep right you can't workout this style right, in turn you'll overtrain and look like richard simmons.

    Something kinda crazy:
    Lately my skin has really been looking nice. Not to much I'm doing differently. That's been just as good a additions as the muscle and strength gains.

    Well the kid is back and Ready to go.So until next time. Latalatalatalatalata.

  16. For your curls are you using the curved or straight bar? Often my wrists won't allow me to do straight bar so I do barbellcurls with the w shaped bar.
    My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html

  17. Quote Originally Posted by motiv8er
    For your curls are you using the curved or straight bar? Often my wrists won't allow me to do straight bar so I do barbellcurls with the w shaped bar.
    I haven't done them in forever and I can get pretty decent weight with the cambered curl bar. I still hope the cissus can help, because I've gotten my arms up to 18inches without any real barbell curl work so imagine what's possible with some heavy barbell curls.

  18. Helloooooo Vietnam!......well maybe not but this is more of a checkup post since my gym will be closed until wednesday due to mardi gras. That's cool actually because I think I need the recharge. I don't drink or party too much so I'm good to go.

    Something has come up dealing with the excess liver supps.

    I've read some things about it interfering with the absorbtion, but from my research it seemed minimal. But now I've read some thing dealing with the major cleasing of anabolic from your system.

    I guess my question is:

    From any of you guys experience, did you see a marked improvement of performance and gains without milkthistle/nac,etc protocol during cycle? Or were the gains not enough to merit the risk?

    Also remember guys my dosing schedule.

    Anyway I look at least 15lbs lighter, but I'm still up 7lbs! Now that's a good recomp! My calories have been high with a 70percent precidence on protein for 3days a week and 40/40/20 on the other 4days.
    Damn It's tough eating that much protein on the 70 percent days, but it's cool since i love to cook i never suffer the taste half.

    This may be of some interest to those following the log closely.

    When I take my mohn I'm cool,but right after I take my 4ad and 3alpha i feel a little strain in my kidneys, it goes away pretty fast. So what i did was test the theory by not taking my 3alpha or 4ad with my first 3 doses of mohn and just like i thought no issues.
    But today i took them together and no pain on none of my doses. Strange. I will keep this monitored.

    What I think I'm gonna do to test out the theory with liver supps is test it for this week if i don't feel discomfort I will go the duration of the cycle which is only 3 weeks left sans the supps. If the increase in gains and performance are that much different.

    A change in opinion:

    I always wanted to be imposing big. At first like a lot of us I went about it the wrong way and got chubby(never got full on fat luckily). As I wake up every morning dry and see more and more definition and shape. I think I could live with taking years to put on quality lean gains instead of the "as long as my chest is bigger than my stomach" motto. What's so funny at one time my chest was 47in and my stomach was 44in., I damn sure didn't like i look now and i was bigger.
    It's a growth experience in patience and self discipline. We all want it yesterday, but when we get it today, we spend tommorrow fixing it.
    So with that being said.....

    I'm still alive feeling great on 100mgs of mohn daily.
    I don't know what to attribute my skin situation to but my facial skin is looking awesome, could the cycle be doing it or the ton of water I'm drinking to keep my internal organs from dissoving, who knows. Holla at the shyguy.
  19. 100mgs of mohn and now the fun begins

    What's up to all the guys out there that are hoping I don't kill myself in the name of anabolic science.haha.
    Anyway I got a lot of good to report and something that me be of some use to those of us with a good bit of mohn.

    Experienced users maybe should start with 100mgs a day:

    Now this cycle isn't over and the bloodwork isn't back but this is what i noticed.

    At 100mgs/day The pumps are constant and the lean mass is really coming in nicely now.At today's workout in a hour or so i will get on the scale to give you guys some exact weight numbers tonight, but my arms look bigger and leaner, midsection fluates with the way i'm eating that day. When i do my 3 really high days of protein i look even leaner but not as full but on the first heavier carb day I look my best and by the 4th day I smooth out a little but not too much.

    For those of us that are reading the post then you know i was going to do a mini experiment with the liver supps.

    What I've noticed:

    In the absence of the liver supps, I do feel the doses more, the "overall feeling of well being" is there now. I don't feel any strains, pains, or anything dealing with increased liver strain.

    I think I've found a safer way to do a cycle of M1t with another right behind it. Do you cycle of m1t for 2 weeks, 2 weeks previous and 2 weeks after the m1t part of the cycle heavy doses supp your liver support, It takes about 2-4weeks for liver support to even start kicking in the way it's supposed to. So around the time the m1t cycle is over and you're starting your next methyl your liver support would be kicking in overdrive to clense your liver and systems. In my opinion just enough to take the strain off your liver while you start your next methyl, it's like you refresh your liver and systems for the next methyl half of your cycle. I would be more willing to be heavy dosing liver supps on m1t than on mohn, the liver toxicity of m1t for me at least warants it. Even with the 100mgs of mohn I don't feel the beat down on my system as i do with the m1t by itself.

    Don't forget the 3alpha/4ad:

    I really think they compliment the stack. Especially in the gains department. I kind of wish i had enough mohn to run at 100mgs a week for 6 weeks but hey. I'm toying with the idea of dropping the 4ad and going with just the 3alpha/mohn to see if it will really harden things up. I really appreciate the strength gains and extra test production from the 4ad and I'm wondering if I will sabotage any of my gains by dropping it. What's interesting is even with up to a gram/day of 4ad the nuts are still full and hangin! In lamens not much shut down. Maybe the synergystic effect between 3alpha and 4ad, or some other synercism between the mohn? We'll see.

    Some interesting sides at the higer doses:

    When I take my doses of the mohn I get a quick headrush but it goes away in seconds, but it's consistent every dose.
    I have tendonitis in my left forearm and when ever i dose my arms pump so tight that my tendonitis starts to act up.
    I wake up so hungry in the morning my stomach is burning not bad just super hungry!
    The combination of the training and the supplementation keeps me eatin which is good because as long as i keep it clean the mohn keeps it lean!!!
    What's cool is people who see my everyday are noticing that i'm changin, and I'm wearing baggy clothes until it's over but the still notice.
    My skin is really looking good, but i think i'm going to attribute that to actually maintaining a good diet and drinking a trough of water a day.
    (But my skin looked even better on the liver supps).

    Since I've wrote so much right here, tonight when i get back from the gym I'll comment on How the Ovt's comming.
    David Later-man

  20. As promised I'm back and it's a few hours after my wkout.

    Things I've noticed:

    Those of you loyal subscribers to the hottest thread on AM know that I'm doing Optimum Volume Training(ovt) a specialized version of german volume but instead of (1)10x10 supersets( the poliquin method) we do (4)5x5 supersets(Thibadeux method). Meaning, instead of doing 1 go with 2 exercises for 10sets x 10reps
    we do 4 go's of 5set x5rep supersets, with different excercises. Hope you understand but if you've been reading along you get the picture.

    It's hard, it's heavy, it works.
    It's demanding, it hurts,it works.
    You work, you eat, you rest, you grow.

    Advantages and ups:

    -Very high intensity with heavy weights, great for boosting gh and maximizing strength gains and fat loss, pretty good size gains also.
    -I've noticed a overall increase in strength endurance and enhanced recovery.
    -Forces you to keep your diet and rest in check,cause if not......
    -Fairly short workout time for the amount of work.

    Disadvantages and downs:

    -You'll pretty much be on the cusp of overtraining every workout.
    -There are a few weird excercises to get used to but they do work.
    -Don't know how possible this hard ass routine would be off cycle. (I overtrained got burnt out and i have the advantage of increased recovery!)
    -Not a routine for some one who has a very active lifestyle outside the gym, imho.

    From now on what i'm going to do is log only the workouts that I increase or Decrease the weight.

    Some things I've noticed with all the squat and lunge supersets my calfs are really growing and I don't even work them!!!

    I was one of those guys who complained about having bad knees so i could work legs every 2 weeks, and work chest and arms all the time. But since I've been working out legs hard and consistent my arms and chest are bigger than ever and I'm squatting 2 times the weight without wraps than before with wraps.
    The moral Orel of this story work your legs. Trust me the chicks don't like dudes that look like Foghorn Leghorn. (I see,I say!!)

    Well I'm still alive. My internal organs have not dissolved to anabolic fluid and my brain hasn't imploded into a black hole of Mohn, so I would say all is good. So Until Next time same Mohn channel, same Mohn time.

    The Lion, the Witch, and the later-drobe.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by matthams
    some of the sh*t you say just makes me go hmmm hahaha

    but good work! you're putting a lot into this one.
    I'm about to start some m4ohn myself. Im not gonna get as high as you on the dosage tho....
    Wuss, what's the worst that can happen if you die you'll be a drop dead gorgeous corpse! Just playing. You know what's funny if i would have did this before the ban i probably could have single handedly boosted mohn sales by a million percent, but now i think alot of people are ignoring it because they either don't have the mohn or can't get it and say the hell with reading a thread that won't benefit me. It's cool I got Big Matthams, wit me He a ryder!!!lol
    Remember next week is 150mgs aday.

  22. Nothing super to report but yesterday i got 405x1 new personal record by 105lbs not to shabby on mohn/3alpha/4ad.

    I got a lil bug ,everybody's sick now i got to join the party,which sucks 10x's as bad because my immune system is shot because of the weight training. It's cool though. Till the next full post.

  23. Guess who's back

    What's up guys sorry for time in between post,it's been very hectic lately and that's a good thing.

    Anyways got a few things to report.
    I was going to increase to 150mgs this week but opted to wait till next week as the busy schedule i've been keeping was interfering with my eating.

    I still look pretty full and noticeably leaner.

    I got some new personal records for ya.

    before this cycle and training style:275lbX1
    Now and we got 4 weeks of OVT and 3 weeks of cycle left: 425lbs x3!!!

    not much change on flat
    but on incline now i'm repping 6,8 with 225 that's from about 175 before!!

    110lb Barbell for 3 before
    135x5 after!!!

    Overhead Press standing:
    135x3 before
    135x8 after

    with bodyweight (250lbs) x2or3
    with bodyweight(255-258)+25lb weight around waistx4


    Bodyweight+ 65lbs x3
    bodyweight +80lbs x3

    Overall this has been the best cycle workout style ever.

    I can't wait to do measurements and post before and after pics for the 3 people following this thread.

    Monday starts the begining of the second half of the Ovt and it's new exercise and more intensity to bring it home in the stretch so let's see what happens.

    Also next week will be 150mgs of mohn,600mgs of 3alpha orally, and 600-1000mgs of 4ad(depending on if any excessive bloat is apparent).

    I will also incorporate ab work in 3-5 days a week with medium to low intensity upon waking up. This intensity will rise when the OVT ends.

    And lastly I will begin to post the workouts, and other more indept information starting next week again.


  24. What's guys I'm back and I have just about 2 weeks left on this giant roller coaster.

    Well this week was the first week of 150mgs a day of mohn. and 600mgs of oral 3alpha/900mgs 4ad.

    Overall strength has been nothing short of awesome.
    My endurance recovery has been pretty good also.
    For example:
    I did 4sets of ass to the ground front squats and 5sets of parallel back squats and only just missed a new personal best of 455 on the back squat!

    Still no ill sides to report pumps are still full and good. I got sick last week, it looked like everybody I knew had a cold or flu so it was inevitable, I lost 7lbs last week so it will be interesting to see were i end up.
    The program I'm using is really good for strength but it can bang you up if you don't monitor yourself.
    As of now I have a sore elbow, flaring tendonitis,and sore shoulder. But surprisinglly at maximal poundages my knees are fine.
    I'm sorry I haven't been keeping the super detailed post that i normally would but business has been picking up and I've been super busy.

    What I think I'll do is post here and theres for the next 2 weeks and do a grand finale post with the before and after pics. Thank you and be good.
    Monica Later-winski

  25. Well I've taken a little break from the post just because I been to busy to think! But this is the last week of every thing and here are some lifting stats.

    Starting bench: 315x1
    Current Bench: 335x1
    Most noticeable bench: 225x14

    Starting squat: 275x12
    Current squat: 405x15(not a typo)

    Starting Chins: bodyweightx5
    Current chins: bodyweight+25Lbsx 5

    Starting Dips bodyweight+60lbsx4
    Current Dips bodyweight+85lbsx5

    Starting Barbell Bent over row:185x6
    Current Bentover row: 225x5

    My overall opinion of this cycle was pure success. I definitely lost inches around the waist and hardened up I will do measurements tonight but i know i put on inches where i needed most, The strength gains have been nothing short of awesome to me especially on the squats. Endurance strength gains have been actually better than high end gains.
    I will say that the combination of cold season and the type of training i was doing was getting me sick, i seemed to recover in a couple of days max.
    One negative was that the pumps would be so intense right after the dosing that my tendonitis would act up and bother for days some times.
    Bloodwork will be done at the end of next week since have one week left. And as i promised pics will be posted next week also. Thanks to all that viewed. The a"later"ati


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