Body recomp: E...Max LMG + Prostanozol + Dicana
- 09-02-2005, 09:53 AM
Body recomp: E...Max LMG + Prostanozol + Dicana
Finally, getting my shipment today, my 38th Birthday. So instead of giving myself the gift of being in the best shape of my life for my birthday, which is what was originally intended, I now give myself supplements to get there. Although summer will be very much over by the time I'm there.
Ideally, I would lose 20lbs of fat, and put on 10lbs of lbm. No. Ideally, that's what I would obtain after PCT when all is said and done. Tall order? Certainly. Maybe with your advice it is nearly doable since most of my time is mine and this is my first ever androgen cycle.
I plan on doing the same kind of training as right now : 5-day split. Except I will add about 60 to 75 minutes of aerobics and HIIT 5 times a week.
Oh, and it looks like my dosages will be :
Week 1 : E...Max LMG, 10mg | Formestane, 100mg
Week 2 : E...Max LMG, 20mg | Formestane, 100mg
Week 3 : E...Max LMG, 20mg | Prostanozol, 50mg | Dicana, 3mg
Week 4 : E...Max LMG, 30mg | Prostanozol, 50mg | Dicana, 3mg
Week 5 : Prostanozol, 75mg | Dicana, 3mg
Week 6 : Prostanozol,100mg | Dicana, 4mg
Also, the idea behind formestane in the first couple weeks is that since the body is still producing testosterone or there is still some floating around, I'm NOT letting my body convert it to estrogen. This is a gyno-killiing cycle, too.
Week 7 : Novedex XT 4 caps | Guggulsterones, 200mg | 6-oxo 100mg | 7-oxo 100mg
Week 8 : Novedex XT 3 caps | Guggulsterones, 200mg | 6-oxo 100mg | 7-oxo 100mg
Week 9 : Novedex XT 1 caps | 6-oxo 200mg | 7-oxo 200mg
Week 10 : 6-oxo 200mg | 7-oxo 200mg
Week 11 : 6-oxo 100mg | 7-oxo 100mg
I have quite a bit of DHEA which I am sure might be useful in there somewhere. Must be careful, since I have gyno already although with formestane on hand, I feel OK. One idea why DHEA could possibly be good is that I've read SOMEWHERE that Prostanozol can give you joint pain, but that DHEA can help.
I have lipoderm-ultra which I will spread on my man-tits for as much reduction as possible in that area. Keeping that in mind, this will create an "additional calories" effect since the fat freed from that will be in the bloodstream to be burnt.
Other supplements are :
Green Tea extract
Joint repair formula
Liver detox supps
Celery seed extract
So the question is : DHEA? If so, when? I have quite a bit of the stuff...
STATS - Cold
Bench : 225 x 8
Incline Bench : 205 x 8
Deadlift : 355 x 4
Leg Press : 630 x 6
DB shoulder Press : 75 x 6
Upright rowing : 135 x 10
DB Curl : 75 x 4
These are all done with good form, deep reps, slow negatives, etc. That's the way I do them, and that's the way I'll keep doin'em.
I will report on full measurements and main lifts every 2 weeks, that is on days 15, 29 and 44. PCT begins on day 45 which makes this a 6.42857 week cycle.
Ideas, advice, links. Basically, anything... Starting my first dose in a couple hours...
- 09-02-2005, 11:00 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, if it's your first cycle why don't you just stick with one androgen?
... It might be all you really need.
- 09-02-2005, 12:31 PM
Well since both are relatively mild, I thought I might do this. But I was kinda wondering on the benefit of stacking them VS having a longer cycle, i.e. fist 3 weeks 1 androgen, then 1 week stacked and 2 more weeks just the other androgen, for a 6-weeker... [EDIT: I have changed the first post to reflect this second option, which somehow seems better.]
I forgot to mention I have been training SERIOUSLY, with diet in check, etc., for 13 of the last 15 years... 2 years off due to non-training-related injury/surgery/recovery. Does that change things?
Input very appreciated here... Still haven't taken my 1st dose...
[EDIT : Now I've taken my first dose. 10mg Ergomax LMG down the hatch with flax oil instead of a meal, which was taken about 75 minutes ago. 100mg formestane was sprayed on my freshly-shaven torso.
Going to the gym now, will attempt legs, but since my left knee is giving me pain, I might do something else.
From this point on, it will be a log, which will be updated once a week OR whenever something of note happens.
Measured blood pressure today : 118/78. Since it's that good, I'm not looking at BP supps, although I will be monitoring this closely and get them if there is a need.
Thoughts on how many calories I should be taking in are very welcome, since I am taking all this stuff AND adding early-morning aerobics as a separate session. This will begin in week 2.]
To each his own, I've never done one. If I were however, that would be my personal plan of attack. Use one, see how it goes... then maybe add next time around. Plus everyone says tha more you use in tha beginning, tha more you'll have to use later to get tha same effect.
Day 2 : Shoulders
Did shoulders today. Good workout. Usually this day is Shoulders / Triceps but since yesterday legs did not happen due to knee pain, I did Triceps, Abs and Calves. Leaving just Delts for today.
Yesterday I got something unusal : I was eating all-natural corn chips (well it was my B-day) and I got a strange sensation in my jaw : a pump. From eating chips. On day 1. Go figure. Must be the formestane, which is transdermal and kicks in real quick.
So here I am a few hours after my delt workout and my arms feel a little big, pumped... I take out the tape measure and... 17¾". Come *ON*! This is day 2 and all of a sudden I'm at my biggest arm size ever. Well, no matter what, I've never had arms this big. Once, REALLY pumped, I got a little bit over 17½" but not enough to call it 17 5/8".
Besides that, I have a little bit of a hint of a headache, but I believe one of my contact lenses needs changing, and I get headaches when my eyesight isn't doing well. We'll see.
Today I ate :
Fat 139g = 1247 cals = 30% of cals
Carbs 434g = 1510 cals = 37% of cals
Prot 335g = 1340 cals = 33% of cals
19 cals / lb
1.5 g protein / lb of TOTAL BODY WEIGHT. I know, measuring this in terms of LBM would be much better, but for that I would have to have a good idea of my lbm. My bf% is about 20, but give or take quite a bit...
I guess I should aim for more protein and less fat!!! I haven't done well in the past on a carb-based diet with more than 20% cals from fat.
Food journal : http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJ...wner=LunaHotel
Definately watch your BP, had to cancel my E...Max cycle because of it. Although i have been contemplating using E...Max again but using some BP supplements ahead of time.Originally Posted by ss01
Rest of week 1
Day 3: Back and Calves
Felt exceptionnally great Today. I think the Formestane is boosting my testosterone, SOMETHING is giving me a major mood boost. Libido seems up a little. Night and morning wood is returning, and that's something I haven't had since the IGF-1 in April.
Had a good back workout even though the gym was full - it's closed tomorrow on labour day. I usually train at times when the place is near empty but it wasn't that big a problem. No major increases in strength, but I think my endurance is somewhat increased. Not much though. Did calves too.
Added my "before" pics in the pics section : At the beginning of my body recomp cycle..
Day 4: Off
Nothing major to report. Felt a little strange, light-headed or something. Ate some cereal, it had been a while since I'd eaten something. Felt a little better pretty soon after that. Went to get my blood pressure checked. 119/74, just perfect. The lesson is: eat OFTEN. I'd rather eat 4 larger meals than 8 small ones, because for some reason, once I start eating, I have a hard time stopping... That's why I look like that in my pics... Ah, here's something worthy of note: Arm measurement = 18". Don't ask why, this is the OFF day. I do feel pumped and bigger though. A few times today I thought to myself "Geeeeeeeez, this is day 4 on 10mg of the stuff, what's it gonna be like when I'm at 20mg + 50mg Prostanozol??? This stuff is crazy!" Of course, it's my first cycle...
Day 5: Chest and biceps
Had a good workout, although no special energy. Upped my bench by 2 good reps, which is good, but nothing insanely spectacular, as this can happen any GOOD workout. I am looking noticeably bigger and fuller all around, at the end of my workout. I have a feeling that I must train each bodypart at least once before I get a feel of how these compounds are affecting my recovery / growth / strength. I must admit I was a little surprised I didn't have more ENERGY during the workout. Arms a little above 18" post-workout, bodyweight 223.5.
Day 6: Thighs & Calves
Didn't even touch the leg press machine today as I have had too much knee pain. I had to cancel my previous 2 leg workouts. Good workout. Nothing much to report except bodyweight = 225.5, up 4lbs since I began. Now this should be a body recomp, not a bulker. Oh well. I haven't hit the aerobics nor the dicana yet, so I'm OK with this. And this was my last day at 10mg Ergomax. Really looking forward to the 20mg starting tomorrow, which will be Arms and Abs.
Day 7: Arms and Abs, begin 20mg/d Emax
If yesterday's workout was good, today's was truly excellent. Intensity 95% of the way through, which is allright. A couple half-assed sets won't add anything, so I went and downed my whey. Very nice pumps. While technically today is my first 20mg day, 10mg was taken this morning and 10mg will be taken later on tonight, so this was a 10mg/day workout. Wow. This stuff is good. Not much strength added but energy and endurance. I was dripping sweat at the end, and this was an ARM workout. With some abs. Tomorrow would be my 4th consecutive training day, so I might take the day off, or go for delts and calves. Even with the pump, my arms = 18". I'll have some carbs later.
I'll make another post for week 2 and add to it as it progresses, just like this one.
Day 8: off
Yesterday was my first day at 20mg Emax. Wood happens more frequently for seemingly no reason. Getting some very minor acne. Got my blood pressure reading today : 101/57. Good thing I'm not taking any BP-lowering supps, I'd be dead!? WTF?
Day 9: Delts and abs
Good pumps, great energy, lots of endurance, but not much strength. A couple reps here and there. That's nice, but nowhere near what the SD users report. Bodyweight = 227.5. Up 6.5lbs in 8 days on ~maintenance calories. WTF? I feel I have been under-eating, too. Some fat loss on top of that. Reduced gyno, too. Arm size = 18" even, still. This is all good. Will try and increase calories a little at a time, since I am scheduled for prostanozol starting on day 12, which is pretty soon. I'm only adding dicana on day 17, so take your time to answer my questions. [EDIT: After writing this I felt hungry and so had some cereal in soy milk. Yum. Showered, then sprayed formestane. After that, lethargy hits me HARD. What causes this? Too little estrogen? Puzzled here... ]
Day 10: Back and calves
Good workout. Strength is picking up. Good pumps. Bodyweight = 229. Up 8 lbs in 9 days. YIKES! What is going on here? No noticeable fat gain... All water weight?
Day 11: Cardio + Chest & Biceps
AM session: Took me 15 minutes on my bicycle going there, then did 30 minutes on the stationary bike. I am very surprised at how easy that was. I felt like I could have gone on forever. Not that I usually feel tired doing low-intensity aerobics, but I usually get BORED. Not today. Took me about 10 minutes coming back, for a total of 55 minutes of aerobics. With any consistency, this should help with the fat. Measured my forearms 'cause they feel pumped: 14½" up ½", but my "waist" is now 38" up a whole inch.
PM: Chest & biceps. GREAT workout. Good pumps, good strength increases all around. Last day without the Prostanozol, which begins on day 12 at 50mg. Overall I feel that 20mg E...max LMG is a good dosage, but I certainly wouldn't mind going to 30mg. No sides to speak of.
Day 12: Cardio + Off
Cardio was OK. What more can I say? I took a dose of Prostanozol this morning for the first time.
Day 13: Cardio + Legs
About 75 minutes of cardio. Legs in the afternoon, OK workout, nothing great. Not that the energy wasn't there, but the knees hurt some. The morning cardio doesn't help any, but a man's gotta do what he's gotta do. I think the Prostanozol has leaning effects. Bodyweight = 226lbs.
Day 14: Cardio + off
Didn't sleep well. Woke up with inflamed lymph nodes. I guess my leg workout was more intense than I thought. I might do zip today or just cardio. I think this is called "listening to your body" Well I did the cardio. Took a nap also.
Right now it seems I will add Dicana in my stack from day 17, for about 4 weeks. I'd have a few Dicana left when I begin PCT so I'm thinking of doing 4 caps a day for approximately one week. Should I keep this for the last week of Dicana when it's only stacked with Prostanozol or do I do them in the middle of my dicana use, while I'm on both emax and prostanozol? Which will give me the greater benefit?
lethargy yeah it can be a bitch hit me about 3 weeks into my cycle and never went away by the end of my 6 week cycle I felt like total crap get use to it cause it is going to get worse when you add the prostran oh and pray you dont get the dry and bloodshot eyes with the prostran like some ppl have gotten cause it is a pain in the ass
End of week 2 Measurements
Bodyweight: 228 +7
Forearms: 14½" +¼"
Arms: 18" +½"
Belly: 37" =
Thighs: 27¼" +¾"
Calves: 18" +½"
Now obviously something is working, although the waist measurement didn't move. With the dicana starting this weekend, I was only expecting the real fatloss to begin happening about now, so things are going according to plan. Obviously, having recently done legs but not arms changes my measurements some.
Day 15: Cardio + Arms
Great workout. Alt DB curls = 70 x 7.
Day 16: Delts & Abs - Starting Dicana today
Great workout. Strength up. Bodyweight = 229½, the highest since the beginning of this cycle. Waist PWO not empty = 37". I'm jumping the gun on the Dicana, adding it from today. I might get only 2mg in today, see how I feel and get ready for the full dosage starting tomorrow. That way I have less days at 4mg and I'm on it 1 more day. A lot of people report it kinda takes time to kick in, so 1 more day is good.
Oh, I'm feeling a little bit more lethargy since stopping the formestane a day or 2 ago. Libido, which seemed absent since the early days, seems like it returns. This is interesting, because in the first 45 minutes or so after spraying the formestane, libido seems increased and lethargy too. But it seems to do the reverse afterwards... ?!
Day 19: Chest & biceps
Did 14 slow and perfect reps with 225 on the flat bench. 7 with 245. The workouts are good, lethargy is increased but in the gym everything is good. Bodyweight at 229½, it had been 230 the past 2 days.
Blood pressure tonight after spicy meal and tanning: 139/71. Gotta watch that one, it sure crept up on me these last 2 weeks or so. More on that tomorrow.
My tits didn't seem to do that well with just the lipoderm ultra on them, so I started taking the formestane also and it seems to be helping. I don't have a lot of formestane left though. I wonder what I'll do.
I had a slight ache on my right side just below the lungs so I started milk thistle and the ache has just about vanished. I'll never do methylated orals without it again. I think I mean ANY orals.
Day 20: Thighs & calves
Good workout. Strength is up. Measured my blood pressure this morning: 138/72. Still borderline high, got some celery seed extract. Heh, I was so sure I wouldn't need it. Bodyweight holding steady at 230.
Day 21: Off
Due to the very strenuous workout yesterday I chose today as a day off to stave off overtraining, which might still be possible, who knows. Blood pressure this morning: 126/72. Celery seed is good. Blood pressure tonight: 149/86... YIKES!!! MORE celery seed. And potassium. If this doesn't get fixed quick, I might have to either stop the cycle, stop the ergomax and do only prostanozol and maybe add the ergomax back in again when the BP is good. I'mma have to start another thread about this question.
Day 22: Cardio + Arms
This morning my BP was 136/71 which is borderline OK. I now realize that the machine on which I was initially getting my readings was WRONG so I haven't a clue what my baseline was. I finally found some potassium chloride, so I will be sprinkling that on my food from now on. I believe the problem is solved at this point, since I do not see having a high BP with potentially unlimited potassium intake on hand. I will be careful though, starting it at about 1500mg ED and taking it from there. My initial plan was to begin taking 30mg ED of E...max but I will stay at 20mg and run it longer instead. Off to cardio now.
Good arms workout. BP 2nite = 133/76. This is an improvement. I believe I should dose the potassium at about 3000mg plus a couple bananas.
Day 24: Delts & Abs
Yesterday's chest workout went great: 225x8 slow, deep reps on the inclined BB bench. 70x7 on the DB curl, again very nice, controlled reps. Did 75x9 on the overhead DB press and 135x11 on the upright row. Very nice. Bodyweight = 233. I've been taking my dicana and haven't been eating THAT much. Seems like fat simply WON'T melt off me? I am somewhat leaner, though. I'm not complaining although this is looking more like a clean bulk than a recomp. Good thing it wasn't meant as an all-out cut..........
Yes, the potassium is greatly helping. For the price, I don't see the point in celery seed extract at all. BP under control.
Oh yeah, almost forgot. Measured my arms today. 18½", up a WHOLE INCH since I began this cycle.
Day 26: Back
I had very little time to train today but managed to get enough back work to call it a workout. Deadlift = 375 x 4. Slowly approaching 405. Will test 405 at the very end of the cycle I think. Bodyweight = 234. OUCH.
Day 27: Chest & Biceps
Flat bench = 265 x 5. Alt DB curls = 75x7.
Day 28: Thighs & Calves
Good workout. BP still kinda high. Watching out for that. Upped the prostanozol today to 75mg, I was at 50mg since starting it on day 12. Libido and mood are up. I feel I could do 200mg of the stuff. I'll make another post with my measurements... Here comes........
End of week 4 measurements
Weight 231½ + 10½
Forearms 14½" + ½"
Arms 18½" + 1"
Belly 36½" - ½"
Thigh 27½" + 1"
Calves 18" + ½"
All are morning measurements.
Day 29: Off
Bodyweight = 229 90 minutes low-intensity cardio.
Day 30: Chest & Calves
Good workout, albeit the big gains seemed stopped. I gained only 1 rep on my inclined bench press. I have greatly reduced calories so that also matters. Only 3 more days on E...Max. Still doing 20mg. If I had to do it all over again, I'd up the E...Max to 30mg after 2 weeks at 20mg. I'd also take at LEAST 100mg ED of prostanozol, going up to 200, maybe even 300mg ED. Love the stuff. I'd also do a good 2-week preload of "perfect cycle" at double dosage prior to. I believe my next cycle will include some superdrol, finigenx and something else. ALRI's 4D maybe? For now it just looks like how much fat I can burn off until PCT. I'm OK with that.
Day 31: Off
Yesterday I felt REALLY tired, not lethargic but worse than that so I decided to do NOTHING today. Rest is good. I've hit the gym REAL HARD the last 4 weeks so that's well deserved. Plus, I prefer taking it easy on-cycle and not having to take any excessive time off during PCT. I'm due for 2 weeks off after PCT for sure.
Day 32: Delts & Abs
Good workout, nothing special to report. Upright rows = 145 x 8. 45 minutes cardio after weights. Bodyweight = 230 still.........
Day 33: Arms
Good workout although focus is lacking, some. I feel I should dose a small amount of alcar prior to every workout, but I forget. Bodyweight = 232. Waist = 37. W00t? I look leaner, my abs are more visible, why won't the tape confirm this?
This is my very last day of E...Max. Tomorow I will begin using 100mg Prostanozol, upped from 75mg. Oh and I don't have 2 weeks left, 10 days. So that will be 10 days Prostanozol @ 100mg and the last 7 days of Dicana @ 4mg. All my bottles will be empty then.
Day 34: Back & Calves
GREAT workout. These supps make me lethargic, although I believe dropping the emax is reducing that for me. Today I remembered to take just a tiny bit of alcar prior to training and felt more energetic and dedicated. I was able to do cardio after weights with increased workload and decreased heart BPM. Good stuff. Bent-over rows : 255 x 8. Bodyweight = 232.
LETHARGY!! This is my first day without the E...Max and lethargy is worsened. I also feel very hot, like I'm about to start dripping sweat any minute even though it isn't hot around here. I haven't even taken my 4th Prostanozol or my 3rd dicana yet... More on that tomorrow.
Day 35: Chest & Biceps
Most excellent training session. Decided to try heavy weights on the flat bench press. Put 275 on the bar after warming up, did 7 reps. I had never even attempted 275 before. 295 was kinda easy, went for the full 315. Did 2 reps!!! This is pretty insane. After killing chest, the 75s felt real heavy for curls, maxed at 5 cheated reps. Got a GREAT arm pump, though. The tape says my left arm measures 18¾". Bodyweight = 235.
So week 5 ends on that note. One more week to go, well actually 8 days, BUT tomorrow friday I am leaving town for 2 days, returning sunday but I will not have time to train on sunday, very busy day. And then, because Canadian thanksgiving is on monday, the gym will be closed. So that's 4 days off, then 4 more days on-cycle. Don't expect an update until day 40. I guess I'll plan a special "last hurray" 4 training sessions to finish this off on the right note.
Well, yes, BUT it doesn't seem to be anything as potent as I had hoped. Some guys report getting shredded quick off 3mg ED of this stuff. Of course, I've stated before that I need higher dosages of most things than most people, so I'm looking forward to increasing the dosage to 4mg for the last 10 days or so. That should make some difference.
As far as size/strength increases, I am doing as well as hoped for, but the fat loss part of this cycle is leaving me a little wanting. Of course I have 2 weeks left. Next time I run Dicana, I will start it at 4mg and take it up from there as needed, but of course that's with proper thyroid PCT. I am a fairly big guy, too. Bodyweight = 232 today.
And don't get me wrong: I AM leaner. But I won't be close to 20lbs off my starting fat level. 10 if lucky. Which isn't bad, considering my great lack of experience with these substances. A great learning experience, for SURE.
Next cutting/recomp cycle will include as frequent 45-minute cardio sessions PWO as needed. Well, up to 1x a day... I feel I've added cardio to my routine way too late in the game. In the future, it will be cardio from day 1. I usually don't do any cardio, lift with very high intensity instead, because a separate cardio session sends me into the throes of cortisol overload when "off".
[EDIT] This is my very last day of E...Max. Tomorow I will begin using 100mg Prostanozol, upped from 75mg. Oh and I don't have 2 weeks left, 10 days. So that will be 10 days Prostanozol @ 100mg and the last 7 days of Dicana @ 4mg. All my bottles will be empty then.
Day 36, 37, 38, 39: OFF
Day 40: Delts & Abs
Seated DB press = 75 x 10. Decent workout. Bodyweight = 229½. Waist = 36". Dicana 4mg ED is allright. 3mg is too little.
Day 41: Biceps & Triceps
Skull crushers = 100 x 10. Had trouble getting the DB up there though. My biceps were fried although I can't really curl 100. YET. Bodyweight = 228½, waist = 35¾, arms = 18½. Yep, dicana 4mg ED does the trick!
LMAO I'm asking questions to a banned member. Well his last message wasn't a week ago.
Is it real easy to get the boot around here? Like asking this question?
OK, I was trying to follow this thread, but now can't ask the guy follow up info. For future reference, what shouldn't one do, to avoid being banned? I've looked at his other threads and can't see where he went wrong. So, that makes think/ask if I can't see it, will I make the same mistake?
Yeah I read a lot of stuff from this guy and everything seemed A-OK... Too bad about the log too.
I'm also curious about this, in a good way.
Hey I think I found it. I was doing some reading in older threads and found where he said he believed finigenx is transdermal. Here:Originally Posted by pcn
Thanks, I went back and read that. But banned for making a bad assumption? I didn't see where he asked about sources or any other offenses. Did you see something there that I'm missing?
He's a personal friend of mine and is still wondering what went on. I got most of my knowledge from him and he's a super guy... He's not coming around here no more though.
Similar Forum Threads
- By Giantz11 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 14Last Post: 11-15-2005, 04:37 PM
- By Giantz11 in forum AnabolicsReplies: 1Last Post: 07-14-2005, 10:10 AM