My CEE 12 week bulk
- 02-17-2005, 12:10 AM
My CEE 12 Week Bulk (Now with Superdrol)
Howdy. I've been bodybuilding for about 6 months now, and have gone from quite shmeesly proportions --- about 135 lbs. at 5'10" before I picked up the freshman flab --- to 180 at 9% bf. I'm woefully inexperienced, as you can see, but seem to be making decent progress. After a lot of meditation, I've decided to aim for 200 lbs. at 10% bf over the next 12 weeks. A lofty goal, especially for an ectomorph like myself, but hell, you only live once.
I've attached the menu I'll be adhering to in pdf form. I'll be eating every 2.5 hours. I refuse to get fat, so there will be absolutely no cheating, whatsoever, period.
For supplements, I'm taking a tsp of CEE from NutraPlanet and an Animal Pak in the morning, and 3 caps of BulkNutrition ZMA in the evening. I'm also going to have a scoop of whey protein post-workout. I am aware of what a pile of **** the Pak is, but wasn't at the time I bought it. I'm open to suggestions as to what should replace it when it runs out.
I'm going to be doing the following revolving 3 day split 4 days a week. Which days these will end up being cannot be set in stone --- full time school and full time work, y'see --- but will generally be wed, thur, sat, and sun. All sets are taken to failure, or very damn close. I also drop weight between each set so I can keep my rest intervals small.
Day 1: (chest, back, abs)
Wide Pullup x 1
Incline DB Press x 3
Lat Pulldown x 2
The pullups and pulldowns are supersetted with the press.
Bent Over BB Row x 3
DB Flyes x 3
Incline Rev Crunch x 3
X-Over Decline Crunch x 3
Day 2: (biceps, triceps, deltoids)
Scott DB Curl x 3
Scott BB Curl x 3
EZ Reverse Curl x 3
Close Bench x 3
Rope Pulldown x 3
DB Side Lat x 3
Arnold DB Press x 3
Day 3: (quads, hams, calves)
Squat x 3
Roman Deadlift x 3
Leg Ext x 3
Leg Curl x 3
Standing Calf Raise x 3
Seated Calf Raise x 3
Finally, I've attached a photo of my current physique, which I hope to point and laugh at 12 weeks from now. Measurements will be taken first thing every Sunday morning.
I'll be trying different supplements as the cycle progresses. I take these things slowly, so as to accurately assess their efficacy.
All feedback is welcome. Wish me luck.
- 02-17-2005, 07:20 AM
- 02-17-2005, 10:35 AM
Why a scoop of whey protein only post wo? If you are going to choose one or the other, take it PRE WO. There are some great threads regarding how much more important pre wo nutrition is than post wo. Of course you could just play it safe and take a scoop pre AND post Also add some dextrose and some of your CEE in there with each scoop of protein... that would help alot.
Yesterday and Today
I took a two week break to "strategically decondition" my muscles before going at it again. The last time I did this, I came back a little weaker than before. This time, I came back a little stronger. Can't say for certain that's from the CEE, though, because my nutrition is much better now.
One thing I can definitely attribute to the CEE is some crazy ass pumps. My lats are still slightly pumped from yesterday (Day 1), and my traps got absurdly pumped today (Day 2) --- without performing a single trap exercise.
Per TheUsual's recommendation, I had a pre-wo shake. I really don't know what I'm doing here, and since I didn't have any dextrose on hand --- just ordered some from nutraplanet --- I just did the same thing I do post-wo.
Actually, about that dextrose... I note that there is some controversy over high GI vs. low GI carbs for pre/post-wo shakes. (Have you checked that thread out, TheUsual?) I'm not sure what to make of it all.
Simple carbs can be utilized with greater ease than complex carbs, which sounds like just the sort of thing you want pre/post-wo. Further, potatoes are a very high GI carb IIRC, but Tom Venuto recommends them in BFFM --- and he's one lean ass bitch. So, my weak attempt here at reasoning leads me to believe that dextrose pre/post-wo is a Good Thing (TM). Likewise, maltodextrin probably ain't a bad choice in moderation.
I'd appreciate anybody who weighs in on this matter. It's a little difficult to see the forest for the flames in the thread I referenced above.
Uh, I take 4 scoops of protein a day, 6 on workout days. Including my morning tsp, and assuming 5g/tsp, that means somewhere between 25 and 35 grams of CEE daily. Am I misinterpreting you here?Originally Posted by TheUsual
After perusing this forum, it seemed that CEE dosing is still up in the air, but 5g a day is as good a starting point as any. I'll switch that up after a few weeks to see if that affects anything. Assuming you don't convince me to switch immediately...
Sorry, I meant take CEE with your pre and post WO shakes only. Definitely do not take 25 to 35 grams of CEE lol. But yeah, you would see better results from it if taken ~45 mins before WO and immediately after (just like creatine monohydrate).Originally Posted by Nabeshin
Regarding the Low vs High GI, I have read up on it quite a bit and am still up in the air myself. I know Bobo recommends low GI and he definitely knows his stuff, so I am currently using both methods... meaning I take a little dextrose just before and during WO, but also take oats 45 mins pre and just after WO. Seems to be working fine, I have gotten good results with both. I think the most important thing of course is to make sure you are getting SOME type of carbs and protein pre and post, and then go from there. And definitely use some moderation on the dextrose... those that use 80g+ doses are just asking for fat gain, IMO.
And hey good luck with your bulk, smart choice forgoing the prohormones/steroids.
OK, that makes sense, I'll bite.Originally Posted by TheUsual
I'll keep researching this and play around with it a bit. As a starting point, I'll just use a tbsp of dextrose and two scoops of whey pre and post. Considering how frequently I eat, I bet I'll rapidly reach a point of diminishing returns with this stuff.I think the most important thing of course is to make sure you are getting SOME type of carbs and protein pre and post, and then go from there. And definitely use some moderation on the dextrose... those that use 80g+ doses are just asking for fat gain, IMO.
I swear to god, my superdrol has been singing "don't you want me baby" all night long. The temptation of the sauce is worse than a thousand hot babes serving steaks. I'm not sure what's so smart about it, but the general consensus seems to be that you need 1 year of natural training and must be at least 21 before you start AAS. Patience is a virtue, I'm told.And hey good luck with your bulk, smart choice forgoing the prohormones/steroids.
20 Rep Squats
Leg day today. I'm a little wiser thanks to some reading yesterday, and decided to cut out leg extensions. Also, I replaced the regular squatting routine with 20 rep squats. That was interesting. I can't verify this, but I'm pretty sure I now have at least an approximate sense of what it must be like to die. After that, I did two sets of deadlifts and called it quits --- I was running late for work. I'll go back and do some more deadlifts and calves tonight.
I do believe the CEE is having a major effect, and taking it pre-workout seems like it's helping also. I was squatting with 160 (don't laugh), and the last time I did that, I couldn't do more than 11 reps, period. In fact, I collapsed on the 12th rep. This time, I cranked out 20. Now, those 20 reps hurt like 10 bitches on a bitch boat, and quite nearly made me puke, but I didn't collapse. So in my mind, that's a hell of a fraggin' jump.
In addition to the ergogenic benefits, the CEE also seems to leave you feeling somewhat pumped all day long. I'm also looking a bit tighter, even though my BF hasn't budged. Still way too early to really draw any conclusions, but things seem promising so far.
Well it depends who you talk to, but alot of people end up regretting starting PH's/AAS. There are a wide variety of reasons. Plus once you start it's really hard to stop. You think it is calling your name now? Just waitOriginally Posted by Nabeshin
I for one wish I had stayed natural.
Good luck. After I'm done cutting, I'm starting a 12 week bulk (clean and lean of course) where I'll take probably 2.5g of CEE daily but I may take that in the form of Cre Ethyl Thunder. So I'm looking forward to your results.
Hmm, the prospect of psychological dependency is disturbing. But the prospect of getting HYOOOGE is enticing. I really don't put any value on remaining "natural" --- a word which turns out to be semantically null when you think about it.Originally Posted by TheUsual
I just vaccum sealed and frigerated all my stuff, save for one lone bottle of superdrol. I'm thinking, 4 weeks clean, 4 weeks superdrol, then 4 weeks PCT... But at the moment, it's no more than just thoughts.
It's not that I'm impatient, per se, I just don't want to waste time. I put AAS in the same class as guns and chainsaws: very useful, somewhat dangerous tools. The difference between being natural and juicing is the difference between using an axe or a chainsaw to chop down a tree.
UPDATE: Should have thought of this first... if it's not too much trouble, can you tell me why you wish you stayed natural? This is the kinda stuff I need to hear before I decide to use AAS.
Okay not natural, but hormone-free. I agree with you that "natural" describes noone these days and is a pointless goal.Originally Posted by Nabeshin
I did a cycle of 1-AD and had good luck with it but it shut me down hard and I ended up losing all my gains and then some. Then 6 months later I did a cycle of M1T and got shut down very hard and lost all my gains and worst of all started shedding my hair very badly on it. After that I swore off androgens but ended up doing an M4OHN cycle not to long ago that yielded me nothing. Keep in mind I researched all of m cycles extremely well and followed PCT protocol to a T (7-oxo/6-oxo transdermal, nolva and clomid, tribulus, ZMA, good sleep, no cardio, kept my cals up, etc.).
I'm sure everyone is different, but anrogens have done nothing for me and I wish I had not wasted all the time and $$ that I did on them.
I also think that worst of all they are used as a crutch in place of good training/nutrition. I know I used them that way for one... it's kind of liek the easy and quick way out.
Okay I'm ending my rant now, sorry ! :-) Good luck again with your bulk
176.8 lbs. at 9% bf
160.9 lean lbs.
15.9 fat lbs.
Waist: 33 1/2"
Arms: 14 3/8"
Calves: 16 1/4"
Chest: 41 1/4"
All measurements are cold and flexed. My arms are actually 1/8" bigger than they were last week, but I can't say anything about the other bodyparts. Consider this baseline.
If anyone has any tips on measuring chest, they would be much appreciated --- I'm not sure I'm doing it right. I'm using myotape, and I wrap it around my pecs just below my armpits. I stand up with normal straight posture, with a normal amount of air in my lungs, and flex. Taken this way, measurements are consistently around 41 1/4" inches (as recorded). Of course, moving the tape around, standing differently, and holding different amounts of air can change that drastically. Is there even a "right" way to do this?
Forgot to post on yesterday's workout. I was really pressed for time, so I cut out all resting and ab work and did my routine in 20 minutes --- it was like one giant superset. I've attempted this a couple of times before and never really been successful, I normally end up quitting early or reducing sets per exercise. I was successful this time. In fact, I didn't really start breaking a sweat until the last 5 minutes, and strength was actually up even in the later sets.
I'm not very in tune with my body yet, so I can't conclusively contribute this improvement to the CEE, but once again, it's promising. Oh, and I did abs this morning.
Gaaaaah. I've been doubled over in pain from horrible gas that won't release for about 24 hours now. As soon as my local Safeway opens, I'm grabbing some PhosphoSoda. This is absolutely rediculous. This doesn't have anything to do with the CEE, but I'm sure flushing my colon out is going to impact my weight on Sunday, so I thought it would be worth mentioning.
Man, I wouldn't wish this **** on my worst enemy.
UPDATE: I think the lesson here is to chew before you swallow. Y'see, I'm the impatient type, and got tired of spending so much time chewing 4 whole meals a day. Where possible, I started just washing my food down with water. I got to the point where I wasn't even chewing my rice at all. Apparently, this means that the food doesn't get digested as thoroughly in the stomach, leaving a greatly increased load of work for the bacteria in the colon --- and them's some gassy bitches. I'd wager that the gas would subside with my next turd, but I don't feel like waiting! My colon can hold about 3 days worth of stool at any given time, and I'm walking like a pregnant woman on her period this **** hurts so bad. Can't have that when I'm seeing a hot chick today.
After much thought, I've decided to add 10mg of Superdrol ED to my supplementation regimen for 4 weeks. Nolva is on-hand for PCT and gyno emergencies. I also have 1-test and 4AD bulk powder available, but since this is my first cycle of AAS I think it prudent to keep things simple.
Arm day today, will report after my workout.
Strength was up a bit on arms today, even though I'm running on something like 2.5 hours of sleep. I'm becoming increasingly confident that CEE provides a significant boost to strength and endurance, which should result in a concomitant increase in mass. I wouldn't expect the SD to have kicked in by then.
Yesterday and Today
As far as "feeling" the Superdrol goes, I haven't noticed anything apart from the pronounced diuretic effect and some enhanced pumps. Strength was up on legs yesterday and chest/back today, but nothing out of the ordinary. Size, however, is another matter. I weighed in at 182 pounds this morning, and had another quarter inch on my arms. There's no way this is bloat considering the fact that I'm pissing my brains out every 45 minutes. In light of my recent intestinal maladies, this is one hell of a jump.
From what I've read, I get the impression that Superdrol might be better suited to 3 week cycles. I'm thinking about running it at 15 mg ED next week (by taking an extra cap on workout days), and 20 mg ED for the last week, followed by 2 weeks of liquid Nolva at 60/30. I'm betting on the fact that the anabolic curve --- I just made that up --- of Superdrol is exponential, not linear, so it would be more economical to run it at higher doses for shorter stretches than the traditional 4 weeks straight.
BTW, I know I'm not 21, but I'm damn close at 20.5, and have good reason to believe I'm well past homeostasis. I was a very early bloomer, and haven't grown a fraction of an inch in height for half a decade now. I also have a pretty low libido in general, and especially for a 20 year old. When I finally do turn 21, It'll be during the summer, when I'll be tugged from one family vacation to another ad nauseam, making it nigh impossible to bulk properly. (When your parents are divorced, it can be a pain in the ass keeping the college money flowing in.) In light of all this, I decided to jump the gun by a few months --- hope nobody minds.
I've just had to dump a girl over bodybuilding; she was simply asking for too much time. The irony of this situation is staggering.
Anyway, I now will have time to update regularly. As of this morning, I am 184 lbs, and seem to be a wee bit leaner. Leg day tomorrow, and my first day of a double dose of superdrol.
Everything really seems to be business as usual. I still haven't really noticed any strength boost, but the lean mass keeps on coming. I was 186.6 lbs at my last weigh in --- which was taken after dropping the biggest turd of my life, a few hours after rising, and without a meal (almost missed a Linear Algrebra exam). Bodyfat seems to be just a tad bit under 9%. Arms are up to 14 3/4". BTW, I'm gonna stop taking the other measurements 'cuz I'm only really interested in the arm numbers. Of note is the fact that I've experienced zero testicular shutdown, and no androgenic sides. The only effect of SD seems to be to make me piss my brains out and Get Hyooge (TM).
I'll be continuing at 20 mg/day until wednesday after next, when I will being two weeks of PCT. I'm actually wondering if I should skip the nolva and use something like tribulus, or at least ease up on the dosages. Like I've said, there has been no testicular shutdown, and I wonder if using an anti-E while natural test levels are still high is playing with fire. At the very least, it's sandblasting a saltine.
UPDATE: Whoops! Forgot to mention, SD does give me some whacko pumps in my calves. It takes almost no perturbation to get my calves absurdly pumped, and just walking up a hill can result in same *painful* pumps. Ditto for the lower back in the gym. Deadlifts and squats make me feel like my back is about to burst. This seems to be correlated with dosing the SD at 20 mg, so I'm sure as **** not going above that!
Yesterday was the first day I think I've actually felt the ergogenic effects of SD in the gym. It didn't translate into a strength increase, but an increased capacity for volume. By the end of my usual chest/back/abs routine, I felt like my chest was aching for some more abuse. So I tacked on three sets each of cable crossovers, pushups, and dips. Lemme tell ya, I am normally a dead man walking after this routine, so this is almost without a doubt the SD.
I weighed in at 194 this morning, and my arms were 15". However, I think I was holding a few pounds of water, though why I'm not certain. Possibly it's because I've started adding in one or two cheat meals a day just to up my calories. I'm very sensitive to nutrition, and can immediately sense when I'm not getting enough food --- hell, my watch gets loose! I've been ignoring the signals for a while, figuring that they were a result of the diuretic effects of SD; however, after chugging down 2+ gallons of water a day for 2 weeks, I decided it was time to start eating more.
I'd wager I'm getting around 5,500 cals a day now, with a macro breakdown closer to 40-30-30 for carbs-pro-fat. No increase in BF%, but I'm obviously a hell of a lot heavier, so I plan to continue with this strategy all the way through PCT.
Its alright to be dedicated but need to have a balance between having a life and bodybuilding. If not, the wear and tear of lifting and no social life will wear on you quick. Dont seclude yourself from people because your on cycle (which i wouldnt recommend anyways bc your really unexperienced) No bash, just cold hard facts.Originally Posted by Nabeshin
Being on cycle had nothing to do with ditching that girl. And remember, what wears and tears on you might rejuvenate me.
Just now noticing a little bit of testicular shutdown. They don't look any smaller, but they feel a little lighter. Also, in reading over this log, I find myself doing a double take. On the 8th, I was 186. On the 10th, I was 194. WTF!? As predicted, I was holding some water, so I'm now around 192, but still, that jump is nothing short of madness.
I'm going to make Sunday my last day on, and start PCT on Monday, because this whole "cycling on Wednesday" thing is rubbing my obsessive-compulsive fur the wrong way. In light of the observed testicular shutdown, I'll stick with liquid tamox for PCT, dosed at 60/30.
Arm day tonight, and it's gonna be my last one on SD. I'm gonna blast those buggy whips for all they're worth!
Once again, the ergogenic effects of SD were felt in the gym, in the form of a greatly increased capacity for volume. I felt like I could go forever, and tacked on an extra 30 min of biceps noodling. 10mg seems to be a little light, even for the relatively little guy I am; 20mg is much more effective, if you can stand the painful pumps.
End of Cycle
Weighed in this morning at a very dry 191 pounds, at 9% bodyfat and with 15" arms. PCT begins now, and I had my first dose of tamox this morning. I think I'll dose before bed, henceforth, to take advantage of the hormone surge that occurs during sleep. I skipped legs today, since the only chance to work them was in the morning and I wouldn't have gotten enough sleep. My limited experience has taught me that rest is as important as training, if not more so --- and I'd imagine this is especially true during PCT.
Here's hopin' I keep what I got...
Weighed in at 195 this morning. My Dad saw me for the first time in a week and commented on how much bigger I looked. Come to think of it, I've been getting lots of remarks from folks. I'm guessing the SD hasn't cleared yet, because otherwise I have no clue where these 4 pounds came from. However, the diuretic effect and cramping is gone, so who knows. Bodyfat is still at 9%, according to my calipers.
Speaking of which... does anybody else find that the AccuMeasure one-site calipers report a little low? I've been paying attention to the pics forum, and most bodyfat estimations have been higher than I expected. I look to be at the same bodyfat level as in my pic at the beginning of this thread, but I'm guessing folks would sooner call that 13% than 9%. Then again, I have absolutely *no* tan whatsoever --- a result of isolating myself from the outside world for seven years. That can make you look disproportionately smooth, so the calipers might be right after all.
But that is neither here nor there. I'm bigger, and the calipers haven't gotten farther apart, and that's all that matters.
Your gains are great for a starter! I think your diet and training are on line.
To me your BF seems much higher than 9%. Close to 15%.
But u need to bulk, dont care about fat too much, bro. I'm sure that CEE will help u
Oh I'm definitely not afraid of fat, so long as it stays at around this level. I use to be quite paranoid about becoming un-ripped, but as soon as I eased up, my strength, endurance, and recovery all shot up dramatically. Couple that with the fact that I shed fat just by thinking about cardio, and I got no problems carrying around a layer of blubber in the battle for bigness.
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