Rehab cycle - help needed
01-04-2005 09:09 AM
Rehab cycle - help needed
Trying to help a buddy structure a rehab cycle, who is rehabing an LCL/miniscus/ITB/PTFS injury in his knee and an impingement injury in his shoulder.
The goals are tissue healing while maintaing mass and gaining strength and endurance overall, while limiting sides as possible.
4-8 weeks, depending on progress:
3 times per day local topical applied to knee and shoulder consisting a total per day of 150mg 4ad and 50mg nandro base OR 300 mg 19-nor base (havent decided yet, I am thinking that 19-nor being a PH will have a longer half life)
the topical will also contain 7-OXO-DHEA 50 mg per day.
The dosages are low because the target is local delivery as possible with little systemic effect(although obviously some will systemic effect will happen, and thus the herbal PCT). I need more opinions on the dosages though
Nolva will be on hand, will use (Vitex?)Fenugreek/Tribulus/Avana sativa for PCT (I think we should stay clear from Anti-Aromataze as possible, more on why later) and Nolva for PCT if needed
was also considering:
25mg proviron for libido and Gyno prevention while on. any feedback on its effect on rehab/joints
Also supplementing with Glucosamine , Chondroitin, Enzymes and anti oxidants (and has been since injured)
the complications with this cycle is that estrogen is extermley usefull and makes it much more easy to train and function, esp. with the knee, BUT, I know that nandro and estogen are a bad combo. (porgesterone potentiates estrogen action in breast tissue) so I thought about cabergoline (which I will run with an m40hn cutter so have and will give him).
also I was thinking about EQ thrown in for weeks 3-4 and making the cycle at least 6 weeks. it supposed to be good for the joints, appetite, endurance (All good for rehab) as well but not as good or backed up by science as nandrolone for healing.
and last, maybe not related, whats the opinion on GH for overuse injuries?
what do you think guys, all thoughts are helpfull.
EDIT: no injections for this guy (for several reasons), only TD and oral, also side effects should be as low as possible.
01-04-2005 12:54 PM
I think you are on the right track. I would hold off on the proviron until its needed. I've done stacks of 4ad and 19Nor before and it's not as wet as people think. I'd view this as a systemic cycle regardless of where you apply the TD...but you know that.
19 NOR will likely prove very useful as it makes my joints feel great while on. The downside is that it kills libido in a big way. A dht compound MAY help this or it may not as nandro binds pretty strongly to the andro receptor..but for purposes of healing I'd keep him as wet as possible just short of gyno symptoms. 19 Nor also takes several weeks to get up to full speed.
If you use M4OHN as a nandro base for cutting remember it has a short half life (we think) so spread the dose as many times a day as you can.
I personally steer clear of Trib for PCT except sporadic use to help with "on call" libido. It's been shown to raise estradiols more so than LH or test. Vitex appears very useful if puffy nipples are a problem..aka Prog issues. Nolva on hand is a very good idea.
I don't know about HGH but R3 IGF-1 may also be useful in repairing connective and nerve tissues. I'm using it right now and I can say that it has healed a lot of little injuries nicely. It's also regrowing my hair which is bad ass.
All in all it looks pretty good. Good luck to you and your freind!
01-05-2005 06:42 AM
Thanks for the post bioman.
Originally Posted by bioman
what do you reccomend for libido while on, if we're not reccomending an androgen yet?
also, how would you reccomend R3 IGF-1 for a person that trains for rehab and not for mass?
01-05-2005 02:07 PM
r3-IGF has to be pinned and it does not really impart much in the way of mass. It will fill out muscles but weight gain off it is minimal. I would just inject it IM as close to the injuries as possible..say lower sweep of the quad or even subQ around the knee. You'd be using an insulin pin so they're tiny and painless.
As for libido, a dht compound like 3alpha/prov/5aa is usually the way to go but I have some doubt as to whether it would work in conjunction with 19 NOr..try it and see, lol. Also you'd be drying out a little so it depends on how wet you want to keep your freind for rehab purposes.
You could also try herbal libido boosters..horny goat weed works well for me and doesn't seem to have any complications.
there's also Maca, yohimbe, and numerous others.
01-05-2005 07:03 PM
why not throw in some creatine
01-06-2005 06:14 AM
Thanks Bioman. this guy wont pin to save his life but maybe I'll convince him.
theamazing: yes, he's taking CEE, 1-2 grams a day.
01-06-2005 10:49 AM
01-12-2005 10:00 PM
JUDGE so you feel that applying topically at the injury site will somehow target the injured tissues?
And BIOMAN, you said 19-nor makes your joints feel great while on. What about after you come off? Are the joints back to problematic or is there lasting improvement?
Interesting thread. I hope it continues.
01-24-2005 10:32 AM
Yes, oldfart. I do feel so.
BTW the cycle is planned to start next week. training will be very light. in that term I think its kind of an original thing Im doing - endurance training on AAS for rehab and joint health.
full plan will follow soon.
01-24-2005 12:14 PM
OK final cycle plan:
3 times per day local topical applied to knee and shoulder consisting a total per day of
50mg nandro base
200 mg 19-nor base
100 mg per 7-OXO-DHEA
all of this will be in 10 ml of hombrew per day, a concetration of 50mg/ml. we have supplies at least for 24 weeks
1-3 hours after each application another "chaser" application consisting total of 200mg glucosamine and 300mg msm per day . I hope this will absorb whatever PH left also. possibly will add another ingridient here when it arrives.
cycle will last initialy 6 weeks. calories will be up.
CEE 2 grams a day
avant's sesathin half dose a day
epa/dha 3 grams a day
Q10, R-ala, vitamin C, NAC, grean tea, multi, calxium magnesium zinc
maybe proviron if libido falls down too much.
PCT will be detailed when we decide to quit the cycle but all substances are here
wish us luck
I will update.
01-24-2005 02:05 PM
Good luck with that cycle.
OLD- yeah 19 Nor did seem to have lasting improvement as did IGF. I took some time off from my last cycle that included IGF to really let things heal up and to preserve lbm during PCT. I'm just getting back into training again so if problems flare up I'll report them. Feeling good from the IGF though.
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