Havoc Begins

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  1. Re: Havoc Begins


    Yeah lived here all my life. Love this area.
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    Yeah lived here all my life. Love this area.
    Yeah I love Conroe. Grandpa had a house in Willis on the water before he passed away. Alot of good times in that water.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    So week 1 is in the books. Starting weight 150. Weight now is 158-160 depending on time of day. Pretty much all gains I've gotten have been very lean muscle. Pecs starting to form, shoulders getting more defined and round. Overall, good first week. Looking forward to second week at 30 and then 40 for the 3rd - 5th week. Thanks again for all the advice and lectures guys. It really means a lot.
    It would be really helpful for you to get advice on your routine and diet from some of these guys. Maybe post that up... It's great that you're gaining weight but 10 pounds in the first week is not going to consist of all lean muscle, not by a long shot. You wont see any out of the ordinary visible muscular gains for 2-3+ weeks from epi. How long have you trained naturally before this?

  4. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post

    It would be really helpful for you to get advice on your routine and diet from some of these guys. Maybe post that up... It's great that you're gaining weight but 10 pounds in the first week is not going to consist of all lean muscle, not by a long shot. You wont see any out of the ordinary visible muscular gains for 2-3+ weeks from epi. How long have you trained naturally before this?
    This is opinion and/or one person's experience. My personal experience with Epi(and a few people I know) is that on a sound diet with hardcore training and a clean lifestyle u can notice considerable changes in the first week. Part of it can be the glycogen or the pump u get from chemical help. But every time I do epi I notice something by days 3-5. Weight increase at the 1 week mark for me are probably more in the 4-5 lb range and its lean tissue. I am a concrete/construction worker so its already hard to even eat enough and when I gain, its not fat mass. This I promise you. BUT I have been training for years. A newb is going to gain very rapidly and with chemical help only more so. If you are eating clean and protein rich, u mite possibly hit 10 lbs of lean muscle mass from my experience. But I'd say more likely if you were on the 30 mg per day or 40. My .02

  5. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    This is opinion and/or one person's experience. My personal experience with Epi(and a few people I know) is that on a sound diet with hardcore training and a clean lifestyle u can notice considerable changes in the first week. Part of it can be the glycogen or the pump u get from chemical help. But every time I do epi I notice something by days 3-5. Weight increase at the 1 week mark for me are probably more in the 4-5 lb range and its lean tissue. I am a concrete/construction worker so its already hard to even eat enough and when I gain, its not fat mass. This I promise you. BUT I have been training for years. A newb is going to gain very rapidly and with chemical help only more so. If you are eating clean and protein rich, u mite possibly hit 10 lbs of lean muscle mass from my experience. But I'd say more likely if you were on the 30 mg per day or 40. My .02
    no


    youd be lucky to hit 10lbs in first week of superdrol, let alone epistane. those first 4-5 lbs is just glycogen and it should go away at the end of the cycle
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    This is opinion and/or one person's experience. My personal experience with Epi(and a few people I know) is that on a sound diet with hardcore training and a clean lifestyle u can notice considerable changes in the first week. Part of it can be the glycogen or the pump u get from chemical help. But every time I do epi I notice something by days 3-5. Weight increase at the 1 week mark for me are probably more in the 4-5 lb range and its lean tissue. I am a concrete/construction worker so its already hard to even eat enough and when I gain, its not fat mass. This I promise you. BUT I have been training for years. A newb is going to gain very rapidly and with chemical help only more so. If you are eating clean and protein rich, u mite possibly hit 10 lbs of lean muscle mass from my experience. But I'd say more likely if you were on the 30 mg per day or 40. My .02
    Waaay off, but I see how people think it may be lean tissue. You look fuller but you just said yourself glycogen can be a big factor. That's not lean tissue, its the muscle fullness effect it has. These are the pounds that will go bye bye usually when you come off.

    People really have a terrible misconception of what "lean tissue" really is. 4-5 lbs is a HUGE gain and takes months, naturally. You think you're going to take epi for a single week and hit 5-10 Lbs of LBM? In that case... he's done, time for PCT!! Good cycle!!

    Keep at it Skinny, nothing to demotivate... just keeping the reality in here. Commence ass kickage

  7. I'll post what I've kept two months after my cycle and see.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    I'll post what I've kept two months after my cycle and see.
    Hope you keep everything and had a great run, I really do... but you (or anyone you know) has not packed on 5 lbs of lean muscle the first week of epi. Its that simple. Posting post cycle pics will prove nothing but a good or bad overall run.

    Even if you gain 15-20 lbs and keep it all. It is not all LBM and def was not 5 lbs of LBM the first week... That's almost a pound a day of SOLID MUSCLE after the very first dose, dude. An absolutely asinine thought.

  9. 2 cents...

    First off I'd be careful labeling yourself a hardgainer. While it may seem hard to put on a few pounds of muscle or you may not be a natural meso type, I think deciding to be something (before you even start) that makes you feel like it will always be a struggle, is probably not a good state of mind to workout in from the get go.
    Why do I say this!?
    Because I was you years ago and labeled myself one for years and always felt like I was cheated or some crap. Also, I seemed to use it as an excuse not to get in the gym and be the absolute best I could be. Okay, so we are all not Coans, or Coleman's but they are not naturally supplemented and also may have a few advantages. Most average guys can attain a 300BP, 400Sqt, 500DL status or close to it. That is pretty good being natural and around or under #200 BW.
    The biggest thing I learned and what made the absolute biggest difference, was 2 fold,
    1) To quit training or at least focusing on the small muscles and focus almost entirely on the big groups and compound exercises. Namely the legs, back, hips, shoulders, chest. When I started I was 6' and weighed #155-#160. I am and have for years been anywhere from #225-#265.(the biggest power strenght and weight will come from the biggest muscle, legs, back etc. etc.
    2) Eating enough real food. Not many shakes. They cost too much anyway and they never did what potatoes, green beans, rice, whole chickens etc. etc. etc. did will do.
    I am not an elite lifter by total, by any means, but can hold my own and train along side most anyone squatting, deadlifting, rowing some pressing but the pressing has fallen off as I have gotten older. Except for using some creatine, it is all naturally built muscle over the years.
    Just sayin' be careful looking for those short cuts. There are none when training in a straight line. Really like and look forward to working out and setting short term goals with longer bigger ones on the horizon.
    Use the big exercises to get big and strong and eat well. It is really that simple.
    I no longer feel or act like a hardgainer. I am a regular gainer, just like everybody else is. I just did not start with the same bone structure, but you might be surprised how far you can go with dogged determination and no labels on yourself. Think big
    Okay, I'm done preaching, but someday you will look back and say this to another young guy starting out.

  10. We don't give any room for genetics or people reacting differently on here do we.. in the end its still bro science and personal experience. I am in tune with my body and have very fast metabolism and each cycle I've ever done I rip down. Epi always hits me hardest in first two weeks. Always. Again that's only my own experience. I up the dosage at well two and keep gaining but its much slower

  11. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    We don't give any room for genetics or people reacting differently on here do we.. in the end its still bro science and personal experience. I am in tune with my body and have very fast metabolism and each cycle I've ever done I rip down. Epi always hits me hardest in first two weeks. Always. Again that's only my own experience. I up the dosage at well two and keep gaining but its much slower
    We've all read a hundred epi logs and they all look pretty much the same. Epi solo I put on 12 in two weeks, epi and 4ad I put on 18 in three (I like to drop carbs and creatine pre-cycle and add them back in, makes for better bragging) and didn't gain any weight after that. Actually dropped 8 switching out 4ad for stano.
    Strength comes day 18-20, continuing to get leaner from there on out. That's how 90% of the many epi logs go.
    Weeks 3-6, that's where the glycogen and water becomes replaced with actual muscle fiber and more permanent sarcoplasmic tissue. We run 6 weeks so we feel good and feel strong for longer, but also to give our bodies a chance to get used to the new size, feed the new size, maintain it.
    Like I discussed with my buddy, if the first two weeks' weight was legit, why don't we all run 8 cycles a year, 2on/4off and all look like Coleman (or Zane) and move weight like Coan? Because they're not legit.
    Training log:
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/240172-herders-2014-log.html

  12. Quote Originally Posted by herderdude View Post

    We've all read a hundred epi logs and they all look pretty much the same. Epi solo I put on 12 in two weeks, epi and 4ad I put on 18 in three (I like to drop carbs and creatine pre-cycle and add them back in, makes for better bragging) and didn't gain any weight after that. Actually dropped 8 switching out 4ad for stano.
    Strength comes day 18-20, continuing to get leaner from there on out. That's how 90% of the many epi logs go.
    Weeks 3-6, that's where the glycogen and water becomes replaced with actual muscle fiber and more permanent sarcoplasmic tissue. We run 6 weeks so we feel good and feel strong for longer, but also to give our bodies a chance to get used to the new size, feed the new size, maintain it.
    Like I discussed with my buddy, if the first two weeks' weight was legit, why don't we all run 8 cycles a year, 2on/4off and all look like Coleman (or Zane) and move weight like Coan? Because they're not legit.
    Yeah I can see the logic in this:-)

  13. Quote Originally Posted by herderdude View Post
    Weeks 3-6, that's where the glycogen and water becomes replaced with actual muscle fiber and more permanent sarcoplasmic tissue. We run 6 weeks so we feel good and feel strong for longer, but also to give our bodies a chance to get used to the new size, feed the new size, maintain it.
    Ding ding...

    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    Yeah I can see the logic in this:-)
    That's all I've been trying to say. It's just muscle fullness from glycogen and water at first, not actual muscle tissue. Otherwise Epi cycles would be 2 weeks long.

    No argumentative basis here or anything, its really important people don't get the wrong idea about whats happening during their cycle though. Can't have people thinking they will gain 5-10 lbs of lean tissue the first week. Its important they know how the later weeks are really going to be the factor of maintaining this new size. Those last weeks are what fully develops the gains that you can hold with proper pct. The beginning is all fluff if you don't follow through at the same level for the weeks ahead and fight to maintain it.

    I'd also warn OP to be careful about possible injuries in the early weeks. People feel the need to go to failure every set with nothing but placebo and some water weight in the beginning and an injury now spells disaster for the rest of the cycle. Obey your body and pace yourself for weeks 3-6 (not to mention PCT), that's going to be the end all be all. Not to say don't work hard... but make sure to work smart.

    This is why is so beneficial to have years of lifting ex under your belt. PHs for newb lifters ends in injuries a lot due to technique flaws and just overdoing it in the early weeks thinking more is better and to go full on or go home. These are the kind of people who end up at home anyway, injured. Lift smart and follow a proven routine. Don't shoot from the hip if your a new lifter on a PH.

  14. Off subject but I'm injured. Not severely but I can't tilt or move my head to the left side AT ALL not even half an inch without having excruciating pain shoot down my back. It's been this way for 6 days and getting worse. Really hindering my workouts. Hoping to still do a majority of my workouts with less intensity so we will see how that goes. This is day 9 of my Havoc cycle and I got my first "back pump" tonight while at work. After sitting for some time I got up and it felt like my kidney on the left side was cramping up. Hurt like a motha but its all part of the ride. Still hovering at 160-162 so that's good. Arms are bigger slightly and upper body is starting to get that "V" shape look which I've never had. Keep you guys updated when I see a doc or chiropractor sometime this week.

  15. Question guys: just picked up some amino burst 3000 from a well known store lol also grabbed some Whey protein to go along with my gainer shake. When should I take the amino acids for maximum effect? They have BCAA also. Thanks.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    Question guys: just picked up some amino burst 3000 from a well known store lol also grabbed some Whey protein to go along with my gainer shake. When should I take the amino acids for maximum effect? They have BCAA also. Thanks.
    You could take it to the extreme an have the bcaa shake after every meal. Really help with muscles swallowing all the protein you're consuming

  17. Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    You could take it to the extreme an have the bcaa shake after every meal. Really help with muscles swallowing all the protein you're consuming
    Well they are tablets. So it says take 3 a day.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post

    Well they are tablets. So it says take 3 a day.
    Well I'm crazy about BCAAs. Well, Leucine anyway. Isoleucine and valine need carbs to work properly. But that 3 pill dose is very under dosed with all 3. If u want that supplement to work to a noticeable degree, you'd need to take like 12-15 pills every dose. Otherwise what u have there is like taking 8-10 grams of protein. Id take them with breakfast and or your post workout whole food meal. My opinion. I take leucine on and off cycle all day long. Definitely helps you feel big and full and recovery

  19. Well here's my update pic!




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    Hahah totally kidding. Thought you'd enjoy this on this beautiful Sunday. Will post a pic tomorrow.

  20. Good luck with the neck pain man. Fill us in what the doc says.

    Sounds like a sniff neck but even that can really put a damper on the run. This early in the cycle... its FAR more important to get healthy for weeks 3-6 than to push at ALL so early in the cycle.

  21. So I weighed 148 lbs at my last psychiatry appointment 3 weeks ago. That's right before I started my cycle. Thought I weighed more. Now I weigh 161! He was stunned because I take Adderall for ADHD but he also put me on Remeron for anxiety which causes weight gain. I believe it's that plus this cycle as to why I've gained 13 pounds in 3 weeks. Still insane amount of weight for only starting week 3 of Havoc.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    Well here's my update pic!

    <img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=77 093"/>
    Not aesthetic, IMO.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by AwhYeah View Post

    Not aesthetic, IMO.
    I agree. Don't know who that is but it's pretty gross.

  24. Looks like he is pooping out a big turd

  25. Here's some horrible quality pics lol

    I haven't worked out in almost a week because of my neck so my muscles don't look as pumped as usual. Starting back working out tonight. I'm starting week 3 so I should be able to gain some more.



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  26. You still alive? Neck ok?

  27. Cycle is over! After 5 weeks of Havoc, here are my results. Starting weight 143lbs (no bullish) ending weight as of TODAY 165lbs. Now, I was an extremely hard gainer and had a sloppy diet at best but I gained a total of 22 lbs in 5 weeks which I think is amazing for an epi cycle. And this is my first ever cycle. Here's before and after pics. Couldn't be happier! First two are before. Rest are after.

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  28. Feedback anyone? Thread seems to have died out....

  29. Quote Originally Posted by SkinnyChase View Post
    Feedback anyone? Thread seems to have died out....
    Happens when you don't post for a couple of weeks. Either way, looks like you're still holding a fair amount of water, judging by your face and lower abdomen. Get through pct and see what you've kept after that.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by iparatroop View Post

    Happens when you don't post for a couple of weeks. Either way, looks like you're still holding a fair amount of water, judging by your face and lower abdomen. Get through pct and see what you've kept after that.
    Yeah I guess some is water weight. But I thought epistanen a dry compound. Guess its from the creatine? And here's a pic today. I'm at 170 now. I've literally, no bs gained a pound a day each of the last 4 days. And the four days have been PCT. So idk what's going on.

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