Test & Mast Cycle

[ksukhin]

I'm planning on taking a 8 week cycle of test & mast at 250mg/wk each, with Nolva 40/40/20/20 for PCT. I've done orals before and had OK results but it's time to man up.

What do you guys think of this cycle?
What are some sides I should expect?
Should I be running nolva at the start of my cycle too so I don't get gyno?
What's the best way to inject this mix? One at a time or can I mix both in one syringe?

 

[usealittle]

I'm planning on taking a 8 week cycle of test & mast at 250mg/wk each, with Nolva 40/40/20/20 for PCT. I've done orals before and had OK results but it's time to man up.

What do you guys think of this cycle? depends on what your trying to do..
What are some sides I should expect? lost of wood
Should I be running nolva at the start of my cycle too so I don't get gyno? get a real AI, not nolva for on cycle.
What's the best way to inject this mix? One at a time or can I mix both in one syringe? both in the same pin

how old are you?
what are you trying to get out of this cycle?
have you done any reading before you decided on running this cycle?

 

[MANotaur]

I'm planning on taking a 8 week cycle of test & mast at 250mg/wk each, with Nolva 40/40/20/20 for PCT. I've done orals before and had OK results but it's time to man up.

What do you guys think of this cycle?
What are some sides I should expect?
Should I be running nolva at the start of my cycle too so I don't get gyno?
What's the best way to inject this mix? One at a time or can I mix both in one syringe?

Dude use an ai on cycle. adex is a good choice for somethin this mild. yes you can mix them in the same pin and you really didnt give us enough info to critique your cycle...need your age, height, weight, BF%....all this stuff comes into play so....yeah

 

[fueledpassion]

Masteron acts as effective as an AI...300-400mg/week keeps you dry and hard. I advise against an AI with Mast. You don't need it unless you are severely prone to holding water. Your joints are gonna hurt with both Mast and an AI.

Also, are these long esthers? Such as Test-E and Mast-E? If they are, you need to run it 10 weeks minimum. If not, 8 is fine.

Have you guys ever run Mast and Test? Are you sure that Test gives you so much water weight that you need an AI? This is a rather straight-forward cycle, with little side effects to worry about. I don't see how he will "lose his wood", either. The very opposite happened to me..

Sometimes amatuer juicers confuse the water retention issue between the gear that they take and the food that they eat + lack of cardio and lack of sweating. If you don't have high intensity in the gym, and do no cardio, and eat a so so diet...then yes, you will hold lots of water on cycle. I recommend an AI when you have itchy or aching nipples. Thats a sign of too much estrogen. Any other case, let your body find a balance on its own.

 

[MANotaur]

an AI should always be used with aromatizable drugs. Masteron doesnt aromatize your right, but it doesnt prevent the anabolics that do from being converted. Masteron wont prevent effects such as gyno. If he is prone to E related issues, as i am..and AI no matter how mild the dose or anabolic is, should be used.

 

[fueledpassion]

an AI should always be used with aromatizable drugs. Masteron doesnt aromatize your right, but it doesnt prevent the anabolics that do from being converted. Masteron wont prevent effects such as gyno. If he is prone to E related issues, as i am..and AI no matter how mild the dose or anabolic is, should be used.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-masteron.htm

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-masteron.aspx

Please read. The second link is a bit more conclusive with more information.

 

[MANotaur]

interesting....but it still doesnt explain the pharmacokenetics as to why its an EFFECTIVE AI. it doesnt interact with the aromatase enzyme...

 

[fueledpassion]

interesting....but it still doesnt explain the pharmacokenetics as to why its an EFFECTIVE AI. it doesnt interact with the aromatase enzyme...

It lowers your SHBG. My point is that if you do run an AI with it, only a minimal dose of AI will be necessary since you are already reducing SHBG anyways. Whatever dose you'd run normally with an AI, I'd run roughly half that dosing protocol when Masteron is in the picture..

 

[MANotaur]

It lowers your SHBG. My point is that if you do run an AI with it, only a minimal dose of AI will be necessary since you are already reducing SHBG anyways. Whatever dose you'd run normally with an AI, I'd run roughly half that dosing protocol when Masteron is in the picture..

I see, cuase i knew that in women, it shut down the ovaries from producing both estrogens, and it had a similiar effect in men.

 

[fueledpassion]

I see, cuase i knew that in women, it shut down the ovaries from producing both estrogens, and it had a similiar effect in men.

In light of that, Masteron really is the best drug to stack with Test for effectiveness. It really amplifies the effect of testosterone and has very little sides associated with its use as well. Minimal suppression.

 

[ksukhin]

In light of that, Masteron really is the best drug to stack with Test for effectiveness. It really amplifies the effect of testosterone and has very little sides associated with its use as well. Minimal suppression.

I've done some research and everyone has been saying that Mast & Test is a great stack.

Thanks for the feedback guys, here's a bit about me so you can tell me if this is a good cycle or no...
21 years old, 6'1", 175lbs, used to swim competitively ages 12-18, almost a year been training hard 4-5 times a week and eating about 3500 calories (went from 140lbs to 175lbs). I find it really hard to get bigger so that's what I want out of this cycle, gain muscle mass.
I don't know my bf % but I attached a picture of what I look like now so you be the judge.

My concerns are the sides of this stack, gyno, shutting down, and the dosage (250mg of mast & test each, twice a week, for 8 weeks)

 

[usealittle]

My concerns are the sides of this stack, gyno, shutting down, and the dosage (250mg of mast & test each, twice a week, for 8 weeks)
View attachment 72821

with any and all AAS or PH these things can happen... if thats what concerns you, stay natty.

 

[ksukhin]

I still want to do the cycle, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right to reduce the risk of ****ing myself up. That's why I'm here asking advice from people that know more than I do

 

[fueledpassion]

I still want to do the cycle, I just want to make sure I'm doing everything right to reduce the risk of ****ing myself up. That's why I'm here asking advice from people that know more than I do

I advise ramping the dose after 2-3 weeks on. Start at 300 Test, 200 mast. Since u know nothing about how ur body reacts, gradually increase as u feel comfortable. Its jot going to be a waste doing it that way either. If u run them long enough, ramping it up wouldnt make any different results than just jumping straight into 500mg per week of each. U probably wont have to go higher than 400mg on Mast though. I'd recommend 400/400 dosed twice a week for a max of 12 weeks.

Get some HCG and run it @ 250mcg twice per week from week 3-12.

Are u running E or a fast esther?

 

[usealittle]

If he is using a E ester the drug will take 4-5wks to max out. So upping at wk2-3 will just make a potential problem worse... I would run it like this...

Wks1-5 300test/200mast
Wks6-8 300test/400mast
Wks9-12 400test/400mast

This way will give you the least chance of sides... Run hcg and pct like said above and you should be good. Not a get huge cycle but a good clean gains cycle. But what and how you run it it up to you.

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[ksukhin]

To answer a previous question, its test e. Just to be on the safe side I'm thinking of running 250mg/ml of mast and test each per week, for 10 weeks cause they come in 10ml vials. And then nolvadex 40/40/20/20 as pct

 

[usealittle]

That's ok if that's what you want to do but don't expect to gain mass amounts of weight. It could be a good cycle it food,diet and sleep are on point... But that's what most of the gains will come from.

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[ksukhin]

Ok so I decided I'm gonna run it doing 500mg test/200mg mast per week for 10 weeks and Nolvadex for PCT.

I got two 10mL vials of Test E (250mg/mL) and two 10mL Mast (100mg/mL)

Now here's my thing....is it better to inject once or twice a week. If I do it once a week I'll be injecting a total of 4ml of fluid all at once, I remember reading something about a large amount like that could tear the muscle tissue in my thigh, would hurt a lot and I'll have bumps at the injection site.

So is it better if I break it up into 2 injections a week of 2 mL each?

 

[MANotaur]

Ok so I decided I'm gonna run it doing 500mg test/200mg mast per week for 10 weeks and Nolvadex for PCT.

I got two 10mL vials of Test E (250mg/mL) and two 10mL Mast (100mg/mL)

Now here's my thing....is it better to inject once or twice a week. If I do it once a week I'll be injecting a total of 4ml of fluid all at once, I remember reading something about a large amount like that could tear the muscle tissue in my thigh, would hurt a lot and I'll have bumps at the injection site.

So is it better if I break it up into 2 injections a week of 2 mL each?

2 injections a week. but it has more to do with blood concentration levels. but your butt and thigh can handle about 5ml w/o much problem.

so yes...2 injections a week is best and be sure to rotate your injection sites to avoid scar tissue

 

[ksukhin]

Gotcha! I'm gonna do one in each thigh. What time should I inject? Mornings, afternoon, before/after a work out?

 

[MANotaur]

It doesnt really matter n the time...just as long as you can stay consistent with it. If your gonna do it in the mornings, then do it in the morning. but dont keep changing the times. I do all my pinning right before bed, its easy to remember and that way its always around the same time.

I would only reccomend not doing it right before a workout to help prevent cramps

 

[usealittle]

Make it easy on yourself... Take 1cc of each oil pin it in 1 leg, 3-4days later do the same to the other. Then 3-4 days after that pin your glute then the other.

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[ksukhin]

Perfect so I'm pretty much set on everything, I'll keep the dose 500mg test / 200 mast a week for my first cycle to keep it light. I'll start a log once I get the gear

 

[retrofitted]

21 years old. Only one year of "serious" gym time. Multiple oral cycles. 6'1" and 175.

You're going to have a lot more to be concerned with than on cycle sides if you keep this instant gratification mentality on training.

 

[usealittle]

^^^ excellent point.


to be totally honest.... the guy looks like he dont even workout. no disrespect to the OP but thats just how i see it.

 

[fueledpassion]

^^^ excellent point.


to be totally honest.... the guy looks like he dont even workout. no disrespect to the OP but thats just how i see it.

Agreed. But we dont know where he came from either. I know PH only cycles are for the most part worthless after the first one or two...

Anyways, while some gains can be had with 200mg Mast, I'm going to second that thought of having low expectations in size. I'd say less than 10lbs. Then again, this guy could be so far from a plataeu that he might see 15-20lbs from just the test. Who knows.

For me, test and mast is what I'd cruise with, not cycle with. But I'm alittle more mature in my development than he is too..

 

[skilletjack88]

Totally agree with fueledpassion I've ran this cycle at twice the dosage...didnt need an ai. But that could just be me everybody's different. And I'd use clomid not nolva always had great results from it...but also not hatin on nolva I've never used it just my sole opinion on the matter.

 

[fueledpassion]

My opinion about AI's are to only use them when u need them. No need adding more compounds to the mix unless it is absolutely necessary. For me, water weight can be managed by what I eat and the frequency of cardio that I perform as well as how much I sweat in the gym.

Controlling water weight alone is not a good enough reason to run an AI IMO. However, preventing/reversing gyno is a reason.

Something else to consider is that by suppressing estrogen you also run the likelihood of suppresing libido and muscle growth.

 

[ksukhin]

I started my cycle today now I do have a few questions...I did my first injection today and it started with a bit of discomfort now my thigh hurts like a bitch. It feels like the day after doing a hard leg work out after not being at the gym for a long time. There's no redness just slight swelling.

1) what can I do to reduce the pain right now and make it go away?
2) what can I do so this doesn't happen again after my next injection on Friday?
3) What's a good way to inject into the ass cheek?

 

[MANotaur]

I started my cycle today now I do have a few questions...I did my first injection today and it started with a bit of discomfort now my thigh hurts like a bitch. It feels like the day after doing a hard leg work out after not being at the gym for a long time. There's no redness just slight swelling.

1) what can I do to reduce the pain right now and make it go away?
2) what can I do so this doesn't happen again after my next injection on Friday?
3) What's a good way to inject into the ass cheek?

1-suck it up, its just typical PIP so deal with it, if its that bad put a heating pad on it - p*ssy
2- you cant prevent PIP, if theres an infection you need to get a doc to look at it so that it doesnt turn necrotic or you dont develop sepsis, if you wanna stop/prevent the infection, buy better gear or do the injection properly in a sterile enviroment with sterile gear.
3- upper outer quadrant of your gluteus maximus or the upper head of the gluteus medius. both @ 90 degree angle. again you should have done your research before coming here.

 

[MANotaur]

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-masteron.aspx

thanks for this article by the way. It was definately informative. I got ahold of an old pharmacology book from the 80s from a pharmacist friend of mine and its got some great info in it! ill post some of kinetics up here if you want as soon i get my head wrapped around it a little better!

 

[mustang0341]

http://articles.muscletalk.co.uk/article-masteron.aspx

thanks for this article by the way. It was definately informative. I got ahold of an old pharmacology book from the 80s from a pharmacist friend of mine and its got some great info in it! ill post some of kinetics up here if you want as soon i get my head wrapped around it a little better!

I like all the write ups there on AS. I am on my way to a mast/test/winny cycle and I am looking forward to that info manotaur, the more the better!

 

[MANotaur]

I like all the write ups there on AS. I am on my way to a mast/test/winny cycle and I am looking forward to that info manotaur, the more the better!

sure thing haas! ive only read a little bit about it, mainly the structure and indications (irrelevant to us as we dont have breast cancer) and contraindications, just a brief overview. I love this book! even though its old, theres still tons of good information about drugs (especially hormones and hormone modifiers) that you just cant find anywhere. and i will always trust an old source like this over anything i read on the net

 

[MANotaur]

It is of Synthetic origin and belongs to Steroid. It belongs to Aldosterone agonist pharmacological group on the basis of mechanism of action and also classified in Hormones and Anabolic Steroid pharmacological group.The Molecular Weight of Drostanolone (Propionate) is 360.50.
Its pKa is not relevant. Drostanolone (Propionate) is contraindicated in conditions like Hepatic disease, Carcinoma of male breast, Cardiac disease, Prostate cancer. The severe or irreversible adverse effects of Drostanolone (Propionate), which give rise to further complications include Hoarseness, Deepening of voice.

The symptomatic adverse reactions produced by Drostanolone (Propionate) are more or less tolerable and if they become severe, they can be treated symptomatically, these include Acne, Virilization, Coarser skin, Facial hair, Clitoromegaly. Patients should be instructed to report any of the following: nausea, vomiting, changes in skin color, and ankle swelling. Males should be instructed to report too frequent or persistent erections of the penis and females any hoarseness, acne, changes in menstrual periods or increase in facial hair.

 

[MANotaur]

In 91 patients with advanced breast cancer testololactone, drostanolone, and nandrolone were compared in a controlled clinical trial. Remissions were registered after 4 weeks and after another 12 week period; during this second interval the patients received an additional treatment with cyclophosphamide. There was no difference in the effectivity between the three drugs. Remission rate was in average after 4 weeks 24% and after 16 weeks 46%.

 

[MANotaur]

Basically what i found out about Drostanolone is that its kind of a wild card androgen. Because it is a DHT derivative, its unique structure allows it to interact on all the major enzymes and receptor sites that are important, especially to us body builders. It can still bind to the AI temporarly, preventing conversion to Test to estrogen. It also acts as a SERM because it actually has a very strong affinity to the estrogen receptor which is extremely unique for an androgen. it also binds to the androgen recepor very strongly which is what gives you your strength and size increases. It lowers SHBG which causes a senergistic affect with test and other androgens you might have floating around because it will increase their free circulating time. It also cause fat cells to release release fatty acids and cholesterol into the system to be used as energy. this is also the reason for the positive effect it has on lipid values and profiles. this release in cholesterol could be responsible for a VERY VERY SMALL increase in natural test while on cycle, but it is still suppressive as all AAS are.

The more i read into it this is quickly becoming one of my favore AAS. i just wish it wasnt so effing expensive lol

 

[ksukhin]

K so my second injection is due tomorrow and I'm wondering if I should do my other thigh or inject in the same one. It's been 3 days since my last injection and my thigh is still sore and I don't want to be walking around with both legs ****ed. I was thinking injecting into my asscheek instead of my thigh. Good idea or no? Also what can I do to make my leg feel better

 

[MANotaur]

K so my second injection is due tomorrow and I'm wondering if I should do my other thigh or inject in the same one. It's been 3 days since my last injection and my thigh is still sore and I don't want to be walking around with both legs ****ed. I was thinking injecting into my asscheek instead of my thigh. Good idea or no? Also what can I do to make my leg feel better

definately rotate the sight, i would go with the glute injection on the same side as your thigh you injected last time. and dude theres really not alot you can do other than some advil or aleve and deal with it...make sure your gear is warmed up a bit right before injecting kind of helps but some people just get PIP bad...you might be one of those people

 

[ksukhin]

Yeah I've been using hot compresses to ease the pain. I'll inject tomorrow into my glute and see how that goes, as of now I can't do legs which sucks cause I miss my squats and leg presses haha.

I'm injecting 2ml at the same time. Should I inject 1ml of each fluid into both glutes? Would that make a difference?

 

[MANotaur]

It doesnt make a differnce to me...i figure if you can pin once and get it over with then do it. Ive known people to put 5mls into the glues and thighs and they make it ok w/ lil PIP. Its worth a try to break it up into two injections to give it a shot.

 

[fueledpassion]

As mentioned before, upper outer quadrant is nearly painless. Use a 25g needle for minimal soreness and swelling

 

[ksukhin]

yup i did just that and its slowly getting better...tomorrow ill inject into my glute and see how it feels lol