m1,4ADD/1-Test/1,4Andro 6 week cycle log
- 12-06-2004, 10:56 PM
m1,4ADD/1-Test/1,4Andro 6 week cycle log
*EDIT*: Cycle tweaked in response to good board suggestions (read below)
Based loosely on a 6 week bulking cycle posted by Nullifidian, I've decided to run the following 6 week cycle:
Week 1: 90mg M1,4ADD / 240mg 1-Test (transdermal) / 400mg 1,4 Andro
Week 2: 120mg M1,4ADD / 240mg 1-Test (transdermal) / 600mg 1,4 Andro
Weeks 3-4: 150mg M1,4ADD / 240mg 1-Test (transdermal) / 800mg 1,4 Andro
Weeks 5-6: 150mg M1,4ADD / 6ml Hydrotest (Tribulus) / Letro (as needed)
4 Week PCT:
Weeks 1-2: 40mg Nolva
Weeks 3-4: 20mg Nolva
I am 5' 6.5", and am currently about 165 pounds. I am looking to gain some quality mass, so I figured I'd go for it before the ban.
I will be starting this cycle on Monday, and will keep a log here. Any suggestions/comments welcome. Hopefully, I'll get some before/after pics up as well. Thanks everyone!
Last edited by ricanarab; 12-09-2004 at 04:19 AM.
- 12-07-2004, 07:39 PM
- 12-07-2004, 07:59 PM
Adawg, here are the brands of the supps I'll be using:
M1,4ADD = Designer Supplements
1,4 Andro = 1Fast400
1-Test = Dermabolics
Tribulus = Nutrobolics Hydrotest
Your suggestions are welcome! I'll be posting before pics soon.
Last edited by ricanarab; 12-07-2004 at 08:58 PM.
12-07-2004, 08:11 PM
150 mg of M1,4Add.......WOW.......that seems like a lot. But I just saw where RobInKuwait recommends 150-180mg each day, and he knows what he's doing. You might wanna check out his log in this section just to see how his cycle is going. Also, and I could be wrong, but I would think that 4ad would be better for mass than 1,4 andro. Hopefully at least one of the experienced guys will look at ur cycle and help you because I don't have very much experience with this. Later man.
12-07-2004, 08:18 PM
The PH/PS combo looks great, not to sure about PCT though. Four weeks of nolva at 40/40/20/20 would be better, two weeks at 20mg isn't enough IMHO.
Taking nolva in weeks 5-6 will do zilch for your natural test production because you are still taking the m1,4add(which will still be shutting you down). All it will do is get rid of some of the water you'll be retaining.
I would drop the nolva weeks 5-6, do 4weeks PCT and use an AI like Letro if the water retention becomes problematic.
I'm looking forward to following your progress, I'm planning a similar cycle in February '05 minus the regular 1,4andro (unfortunately). Is it the diol or the dione version of 1,4 that you have?
12-07-2004, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the reply. The 1,4 Andro is Dione (1,4-androstadiene-3,17-dione, specifically).
I'd like more opinions on the Nolva. On my previous cycles, I've run Nolva for 4 weeks post, 40/40/20/20. But, this is my first 6-week cycle (I've run 2 4-weekers), so maybe I'm trying to be overly cautious. Plus, the water retention benefits. If others have a suggestion about the PCT, I'd be glad to hear it. I still have several days to tweak it. Thanks again for your help!
Last edited by ricanarab; 12-07-2004 at 09:18 PM.
12-07-2004, 09:39 PM
Reason I ask 'bout the 1,4 andro is the dione can aromatize to oestrogen which coupled with the methyl oestrodiol from the M14add (which the resulting dianabol will aromatise into) will bloat you up like a good 'un!
Letro will be much more effective at controling this and it'll end up costing you less. Custom has it at $40 for 50mls of 2.5mg/ml liquid and as the effective dose is 0.1mg EOD the bottle should last a lifetime!
I hear you on the caution side mate, you could always do 5 weeks of PCT at 40/40/30/20/10 (after stopping all androgens) to give extra peace of mind.
Do a search for PCT* in the PH forum, the posts in there helped me alot with planning my PCT's, Dr D. is particularly knowledgable on this subject.
12-08-2004, 10:34 AM
Drop the Nolva in weeks 5-6, use it for at least four weeks after you stop everything. If you want to control bloat while on letro will work, Nolva is optimal, however, for early signs of gyno.
12-08-2004, 03:39 PM
I would up the m14add does the last week to 180mg ed. I would maybe extend to 7 weeks so you can have 2 weeks at 180mg ed
12-08-2004, 05:06 PM
Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll just do a normal 4 week PCT and drop the Nolva the last two weeks. I might look into Letro as well.
@Undertaker: I based my dosages on what I have on hand . If I had more, I would up the dosages, but I think this will work well.
12-09-2004, 03:41 AM
Ok, so I ordered some Letro from Lion Nutrition (couldn't seem to find it at Custom). It's 30 ml - 2.5 mg/ml.
I read that Lion Letro is 10 "squirts" = 1ml
So I should dose this .1 mg EOD (less than half of 1 squirt) my entire cycle to cut bloat? That seems like a really small dose, however I've read about how effective it is. Also when should I start the Letro, at first signs of bloat, or all through the cycle? I've read about Letro limiting aromatization and cutting into the effectiveness of PH's (some say a little estrogen is needed for prime effectiveness), therefore cutting gains. Thanks again for your help!
Last edited by ricanarab; 12-09-2004 at 04:28 AM.
12-09-2004, 11:58 AM
Estrogen is beneficial in a bulking cycle, it really helps to impart mass gains. Don't use the Letro unless you feel the need.
12-13-2004, 08:12 AM
Ok, so it's finally time. Took my first doses this morning. Will be taking the M1,4AD spread out through the day and the 1,4AD half in the morning, half in the evening. 1-Test is in the morning after shower.
Morning Weight: 162 lbs. (eek)
Time to start eating. I will post my workout tonight when I get home from the gym.
12-13-2004, 08:35 AM
what does your diet and training look like?
12-13-2004, 10:46 AM
Well, good question. Diet is to gorge myself (while trying to avoid fat). Hopefully, a 40/40/20 ratio, but I'm going to eat what I can get my hands on. Heavy on the protein.
Workout is a harder question...I've actually been looking for a good mass building workout (for a change of pace) and have gotten overwhelmed. It seems like nobody can agree on what works. Interesting...
Obviously, the basic compound movements will be the core (bench press, squats, military press). I've been reading a little bit about German Volume Training, but I dunno...I think everyone tries to make it rocket science when it really isn't. I do enjoy reading about muscle reaction at the molecular level as much as the next guy, but I mean, if you lift hard and heavy, you should see results. I'll probably work on the following split:
Monday: Chest & Back
Tuesday: Legs & Abs
Wednesday: Rest or Light Cardio
Thursday: Arms and Shoulders
Lifting heavy, moderate reps. Sorry I can't be more detailed; I think my research has confused me more
12-13-2004, 11:12 AM
Ok, so after much deliberation, I've decided to try German Volume Training. It fits into my schedule perfectly and Phase I is 6 weeks long (so is my cycle), so what more could you ask for? Here are the details:
Day 1 - Chest and Back
Bench Press - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Chin Ups - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Dumbell Flyes: 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
T-bar row: 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
Day 2 - Legs and Abs
Squats - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Leg Curls - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Weighted Crunch Machine - 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
Calf Raises - 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
Day 3 - Off
Day 4 - Arms and Shoulders
Parallel Bar Dips - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Incline Hammer Culrs - 10x10 (90 second rest interval)
Bent-Over Dumbbell Lateral Raises - 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
Dumbell Lateral Raises - 3x10 (60 second rest interval)
Day 5 - Off
Sounds pretty intense. So, hey, now this is a cycle log and a review of German Volume Training!
12-14-2004, 12:39 AM
Didn't eat as much as I would have liked, as a result of a nap I took in the afternoon. If I could get my sleeping patterns right, I would do much better. So I just got back from the gym and my first German Volume Training workout.
Bench Press: 10 X 10 @ 115 lbs.
Half the battle is psychologically getting over the fact that you're only benching 115 lbs (especially when you're used to lifting 200+). However, that quickly goes away as you progress through your sets. The program required a slow negative and an explosive push. Around the 4th set or so, you don't care what you look like grunting and pushing to get that last rep of 115 lbs. It's brutal. Great burn and pump.
Chins: 10 X 10
Ok, so I only managed to get 2 sets of 10 chins, and moved on to close grip pulldowns for the rest of the sets. By the end of this excercise I could walk out of the gym feeling like I got my work in. But alas...there's more.
Cable Flyes: 3 X 10-12
I was going to do dumbbell flyes, but I felt it safer to do cables with the level of fatigue I was at. Major mind over matter to complete these sets.
T-bar Row: 3 X 10-12
I really felt accomplished when I finished this workout, and I can tell it's going to be ultra effective. I'll hate myself in the morning...
Post Workout Weight (pre protein shake): 164
Only possible sides from the supps are a little stomach discomfort/bloating/gas, but that could be from the influx of food. Otherwise feel, good.
12-14-2004, 08:07 AM
Not flaming, I'm glad you're receptive to suggestions. However, I think you should spend at least as much time planning your cycle meal plan as you did with the actual dosing and exercise routine. Your meal plan can make or break your cycle and I'm sure you don't want to take the ad-hoc approach to eating and take the risk of wasting 6 weeks.Originally Posted by ricanarab
12-14-2004, 01:30 PM
I completely agree with you. Diet and nutrition is the most important aspect of any plan. Unfortunately, it can also be the hardest to implement. I realize I need to be more devoted to eating correctly to get the results I want, but I think that will come with time. I'm sure the supps will spike my appitite soon. Regardless, I need to shape up in my eating.
Case and point:
Morning weight: 161.5
My front delts are screaming, "why?!?!?" and I'm ready to go back to bed.
Legs and abs tonight.
12-15-2004, 10:13 PM
Leg workout was brutal:
10 X 10 Squats
10 X 10 Calf Raises
3 X 12 Leg Curls
3 X 10 Weighted Crunch Machine
3 X 12 Weighted Oblique Machine
Ate much better today, feeling good. Still a little stomach discomfort from the Andro, but nothing horrible.
After Workout weight (pre protein shake): 163.5 lbs
12-15-2004, 10:17 PM
Today is rest day...got a great night's sleep.
Morning weight: 164.5
Wow, that's really encouraging. My appitite is starting to get stronger, and I've been able to squeeze in a protein shake between meals. I'm gonna enjoy my night off and eat some of my wife's homeade chili. I've got about a gallon to work on.
12-16-2004, 09:31 PM
Weight before bedtime last night: 167.5
Morning weight this morning: 164.5
Added 1 gram of Milk Thistle ED to my list to safeguard the ol' liver.
The rest day helped a lot, and I feel refreshed. Tonight is Shoulders and Bi's.
12-17-2004, 06:24 AM
I second that!Originally Posted by Miggins
12-20-2004, 01:52 PM
Morning weight: 165
Having some major stomach discomfort (indigestion, acid reflux) which gets worse at night. I've been woken up by it in the middle of the night twice now. I'm not sure if it's from the Andro, or stress from work.
Doses are upped today: 120 mg M1,4ADD, 240 mg 1-Test, 600 mg 1,4 Andro
Still taking 1 gram of Milk Thistle ED.
12-21-2004, 01:15 PM
Weight before bed: 168
Morning weight: 165
Had a wicked chest and back workout last night, still doing the German Volume Training:
10 X 10: Bench Press @ 125 lbs
10 X 5: Chin Ups
3 X 12: Dumbbell Flyes
Stomach is feeling a little better, I decided to make my last dose of Andro fall around 6pm, rather than later in the evening and that seemed to help my reflux and heartburn during the night. I would like to see that morning weight go up a little more, but I'm patient.
12-24-2004, 03:25 PM
arent M14add and 1,4andro pretty much the same thing, except one is a methyl?
12-24-2004, 05:04 PM
No, the methylation makes a complete different compound.Originally Posted by Renton405
12-25-2004, 08:54 PM
Weight Last Night: 168.5
Morning Weight: 165
Holiday eating, woo hoo! Merry Christmas!
12-28-2004, 04:26 AM
Morning Weight: 165.5, then I took my morning leak and 164
Damn it all, what's up with my weight?!?
Chest and Back workout tonight went great. Still doing the German Volume Training. It's pretty intense.
Upped the dosages starting today to 150mg of M1,4AD and 800mg of 1,4 AD. Hoping the morning weight starts going up soon, I'm starting my third week today . Bloat is not bad at all, in fact I seem to be leaning out some, with weight staying about the same. This is the wierdest bulking cycle I've done so far ...hopefully it'll pick up before I get really discouraged.
If another week goes by and I'm still 165, I may have to accept this as my final plateau...sigh.
12-28-2004, 05:42 AM
That's weird.Originally Posted by ricanarab
M1,4ADD kick in pretty fast and in 2 weeks 1 Test too will have kicked in. Only 1,4 andro needs a week more to kick in (but at thelow doses u are running, it wont make the difference)
Eat more and reduce the volume of training maybe. Or allow your body more rest. Between workouts and sleep/naps.
12-28-2004, 06:26 PM
Weight before bed: 168.5
Morning Weight: 166
Legs tonight. Hoping that pound is the start of a trend.
12-30-2004, 06:14 AM
I have a feeling your weights at a standstill cause your doing way to many sets, 10 sets of squats? your nearing 20 sets per bodypart per workout, your breaking down too much muscle
Less sets, no more than 4-5 per bodypart, even 5 can be pushing it...and more calories
12-30-2004, 06:56 AM
Weight before bed: 171
Morning weight: 168
Finally starting to gain. Just think that 165 was a plateau, or maybe the supps just kicked in. Either way, I'm happy. Still limping around pretty bad from legs on Tuesday night. Tonight is shoulders and arms.
@Renton405: German Volume Training is a pretty highly regarded way to train. This is the first time I've done it, and it's definately kicking my @$$. I've gone through several bulking cycles (starting lifting at 130 lbs, can you imagine?) and trained using high weight, low reps (i.e. Shawn Phillips Bench Press Program, etc.). I feel like I needed to switch it up in order to overcome plateaus, shock my muscles and make the best out of this, my final PH cycle. Plus, you never want to get bored in the gym.
I would suggest to you and anyone to try it out, it's really intense and great if you want a change of pace.
12-31-2004, 11:14 AM
Had a great arm and shoulder workout:
10 X 10 Barbell Curls @ 30 lbs
10 X 10 Parrallel Dips
3 X 10 Lateral Raises @ 20 lbs
3 X 12, 10, 8 Seated Preacher Curls @ 50 lbs
Weight before bed: 170
Morning Weight: 167
Starting to see some bloat, but the weight is coming, which is nice. I will start using the Letro next week, if the bloating continues. Overall, my morning weight is going up and I can see definate stamina/strength increases during my workouts.
01-04-2005, 07:27 AM
Weight before bed: 171.5
Morning Weight: 166.5
Quick question: should I wait and take the tribulus during my PCT, instead of taking it the last two weeks if my cycle as planned? Which would be more beneficial? If I wait till PCT to start the tribulus, I'll be on M1,4AD alone for 2 weeks. Thanks for your help.
01-06-2005, 08:50 PM
Got the flu this week, so I've been taking it easy. Still eating and maintaining weight, though. Can't wait till I'm strong enough to get back in the gym.
Anybody have any suggestions to my Tribulus question in my last post?
01-08-2005, 05:03 AM
Start the Tribulus a 10days or a week before PCT.
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01-13-2005, 08:30 PM
Well, went to the docs and my blood pressure is through the roof. I've felt ill for over a week, and have been unable to even lift. I went a day without taking any PH and my bp settled.
Therefore, I am ending my cycle early and starting PCT tomorrow. The high bp was just too scary.
Would it be ok to take Tribulus in the morning and Nolvadex at night, or should I save the Tribulus for later?
Final Weight: 171 lbs.
Thanks for all your support and help.
01-13-2005, 08:33 PM
sorry to hear that, tribulus can have a small stimulant effect - so its your call.
What did you doctor give you/say about the blood pressure?
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01-13-2005, 09:35 PM
Well, he wasn't too knowledgable about the PH's, what's new.
I have a history of hypertension in my family, and he pretty much dismissed it when I told him what PH's I was on. He prescribed me 5mg of Norvasc, which I refuse to take.
My bp has settled on it's own after I stopped the Andro, so I'm not going to get on prescription bp meds at age 24.
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