RobinKuwait's Bread and Butter Prohormone Cycle Log
- 11-08-2004, 02:15 PM
RobinKuwait's Bread and Butter Prohormone Cycle Log
I'm basing this off the bread and butter cycle dbol/test/deca...and replacing it with legal substances. My goal is to add good quality mass....hopefully 15 pounds.
1-4 M1,4ADD- 150mg ED
1-10 4AD cyp- 425mg EOD (1487.5mg EW)
1-10 1 Test Cyp- 250mg EOD (875 EW....may ramp up dose)
MAYBE 8-10 MDHT- not sure on dosage yet
2-10 HCG- Swales protocol (250mg twice a week)
11-15 Nolva- 40/40/20/20 Clomid- 100/100/50/50
Calories will be 4000-4500ish. I typically eat 8 small meals a day, I'm just making them a little larger on this cycle. I'll also be eating very clean: chicken, eggs, beans, rice, oats, almonds, rice, maybe a little lean red meat.
Training will be using the split I stole from supersoldier's and scottyo's post: 4 days a week training/ 3 days off
I'm 6'4 230 pounds with about 12-13% BF.
The lifts I'm tracking are (with current weights and reps):
arnold presses- 40lbsX10
Incline dumbell press- 85X6
Bent Over Rows- 155X8
hack squat- 255X8
I know, I'm weak, but I've really been focusing on cleaning up my form over the past few months (I used to squat 365X6 till my buddy told me I moved a grand total of about 4 inches). Since my form cleaned up I've been packing on serious mass.
I should also add that this is my first injections.....fun stuff!
Last edited by RobInKuwait; 11-10-2004 at 05:56 AM.
- 11-08-2004, 02:26 PM
very close to what i ended up doing for my current cycle
1-10 1500mg 4adcyp
1-10 1000mg 1tcyp
4-10 800mg 5aacyp
- 11-08-2004, 03:11 PM
Put my first two injections ever in my left and right deltoid. After reading all these injection threads, I thought for sure my shoulder was going to swell up the size of a basketball and I'd have to go to the hospital, but it didn't. It hardly hurt at all, just a little sore.
I can't wait for this **** to kick in .
I'm off tomarrow and then I do my leg pull workout on wednesday. Hopefully the M1,4ADD will kick in at least a little for that workout.
11-08-2004, 03:19 PM
11-08-2004, 04:03 PM
11-08-2004, 04:16 PM
i would definitely throw in the MDHT for at least that long, i would run it longer for its anti-e properties as well
i'm sure you'll have fun with this
and its completely true that form is about a million times more important than weight used
11-08-2004, 04:43 PM
On the MDHT, I want to read some logs on it before I add it into the mix. I'm sure the second it ships, people are going to be using it, so by the 5th or 6th week of my cycle there should be alot of good info on it and its effects. I want to hold off as long as possible before using it so I can get the most out of bulking before using the MDHT to harden the gains.
I just thought of something, this may be better?
That way I'm not PCTing while the cyp esters are still in my body.
11-09-2004, 12:12 PM
Don't know if the M1,4 has already kicked in or what, but I have been hungry, thirsty and pissing non stop today. I'll eat a pretty large meal and just want to eat more right away. I normally don't have an appetite, but I ussually kind of have to force down my fourth and fifth meals in the afternoon.....today I was like, **** didn't bring enough food. Had to buy a pop tart and it still didn't kill my appetite.
I've had 120mg of M1,4 so far today, and I'm going to take my last 30mg cap before bed. Tomarrow is Deadlifts and my second injection....I can't wait! I feel like a little kid before christmas waiting for this **** to kick in .
11-10-2004, 02:41 AM
Had a mediocre leg pull workout. Nothing special.
I did quad injections afterwards......OUCH! That **** hurt. I managed to hit veins 5 times before getting a good injection on my right quad. Put 1.5 CC into that side and switched sides. MAN, I couldn't get more than about a cm in my left quad before blood oozed out. I think my left quad is one giant vein. I eventually gave up and injected into my left delt again. I'm doing the glutes for sure next time. Still gotta decide on whether to use a 23 gauge 1.5" or 25 gauge 1" for the glutes tho.
On Day 1 I thought pinning was the ****, now I'm like.......****, I'm loathing that needle on friday.
On a side note, is it normal when you inject to have bruising below your delt, kind of on the side of the bicep?
Last edited by RobInKuwait; 11-10-2004 at 05:09 AM.
11-10-2004, 10:45 AM
It's somewhat normal for me but not desirable. It generally means some of the depot leaked out and is residing under the skin or in the fat layer. I usually get some redness and swelling if this happens but it goes away in a couple of days. Perhaps one of the gear vets will chime in on this one.
did my quads last night too. Used a 1" pin for the first time and boy howdy am I sore this morning. Now I've got to go crawl around on the floor and clean up debris at work all day. Ugh.
11-10-2004, 11:10 AM
I thought initially that I just banged my arm against something and bruised it. Theres no redness or swelling or anything like that, just a bruise.Originally Posted by bioman
I don't think I'm going to do quads again. Its just too painful.
11-10-2004, 12:16 PM
11-10-2004, 10:53 PM
Definitely gotta agree with glenihan. I started doing regular glute shots and hobbled around for the first two weeks, that sucked. It takes a little time to get the ventrogluteal shots down, but you will be glad you did. I also highly recommend lats. I was a little hesitant about injecting there cause its difficult to see what your doing, but no pain, blood and minimal soreness, except if your doing lat pulls the next day.
I also got the same thing after my first delt shot. My theory is that if you don't get the injection right in the middle of the meatest part of the delt some will leak/ooze/whatever out and cause the red/bruised look you saw.
Other than those two spots pecs are also a great spot. Kinda spooky tho the first time ya stick a 1.5 inch 23 gauge needle right in your chest.
Once you get used to the needle you're one step closer to the dark side my friend.
11-11-2004, 04:16 AM
Thanks for the advice uridium, I'm definitly gonna do the glutes tomarrow. I'm not so sure about that chest injection.....kinda reminds me of that scene from pulp fiction where Mia Wallaces heart stopped when she ODed. I'll also give the lats a whirl sometime tho. I have no fear of the dark side........just embracing the gray side before the dark side overcomes it in January .Originally Posted by uridium245
11-11-2004, 11:18 AM
I am holding so much water. I feel fat as hell, like I went from 12% to 16-18% BF overnight. I started right around 230 4 days ago, just to give you an idea of how much water I'm holding. I can barely see any veins on my arms, and can't even see the outline of an ab with this huge beer belly looking gut.
Other than the water weight, I'm starting to feel that DBol godlike feeling I've read about.....and I feel my aggressiveness has gone through the roof.
The thirst and hunger haven't gone away tho. I'm downing about 2.5 gallons of water/crystal light every day and eating about a third more than I normally eat.
Gonna pin again tomarrow .
11-11-2004, 12:26 PM
11-12-2004, 11:05 AM
Thanks Keith....Originally Posted by keith1569
I woke up feeling great today. Went to the gym and did horizontal push/pull and had one of the best workouts I ever had. I really started feeling serious strength increases. The pumps were unbelievable. I've read about people on Dbol not being able to close their hand cause their forearms were so pumped.....well I wasn't that bad, but now I can see what they're talking about. Also I found myself doing an additional set on everything (aka doing 5 instead of 4 sets or 4 instead of 3 sets). I just felt like I wanted to attack the weights. My muscles all looked full as hell too.......like comic book muscles and ****. Not as cut as normal but full as hell.
I'm stocking up on M1,4ADD. This stuff is the ****.
Oh, this morning I did a shot in the right glute. No pain, 3 CCs. Glutes are too easy. Gonna ask one of my nurse friends to show me the ventroglute so I can do that one next time. Having trouble finding it on my own, even with the clear descriptions I've read.
11-12-2004, 11:45 AM
11-12-2004, 12:07 PM
Wow! Thats a great tool. Should be a sticky somewhere. I could've really used that when I was researching how to inject. Thanks for posting that.Originally Posted by glenihan
11-12-2004, 01:14 PM
11-13-2004, 11:50 AM
Today was an off day. Have leg push day tomarrow.....can't wait to see if I get some strength increase. I'm also toying with the idea of going from a 4 on, 3 off schedule to a 4 on, 2 off schedule. I feel great and don't really feel sore from yesterday's killer workout, so it may be the thing to do. Do most of you up your workout frequency when your on anabolics, or just the volume when you do workout?
11-13-2004, 01:30 PM
I usually up the volume and intensity. recovery time is still important even on androgens.Originally Posted by RobInKuwait
11-14-2004, 08:54 AM
Did my fourth injection, this time in my left glute....painless and easy.
Had my leg push workout. Did one additional set of squats (six instead of the normal five sets). Didn't suck any less than normal. I guess leg day sucks no matter what. Did get a killer workout in tho. Had trouble walking up the steps afterwards...but I guess thats pretty normal. Weight went down a little bit, I think its a normal fluctuation tho. Got my vertical push/pull workout coming up tomarrow or Tuesday. Gonna see how I feel tomarrow morning.
11-15-2004, 12:19 PM
I did vertical push/pull today. Got a new PR on Lat pulls....195 for 6 (5 with really good form, 1 questionable form). My previous best was 180 for 5, with pretty ****ty form. Its like this strength came out of nowhere. I love it! Pull ups were hard, probably because of the extra weight I'm carrying. Didn't really feel any stronger on arnold presses either. Upright rows and curls went great, was able to increase volume alot on those. Overall tho, another excellent workout.
I have Deadlifts on Wednesday, so I'm looking forward to that. Hopefully I'll get strength increases on those too. Androgens are just plain fun.
11-15-2004, 02:47 PM
11-15-2004, 03:04 PM
11-16-2004, 03:45 PM
Today I did another injection. One in each delt again. I can't get the balls to do a ventroglute shot. I want one of my nurse friends to show me EXACTLY where. Where I think its supposed to go feels like a bone.
I also did HCG today. I REALLY suck at amp opening. I shattered the first 2 vials and tossed the HCG cause I didn't want to inject glass. Then I did it again, but I think the Slin pin (29) should have filtered it....I'm still nervous about it tho.
My wife had to tell me that I looked like I was growing a gut and that I had bitch tits. The gut thing I think is just bloat. I think 4ad/M1,4 with no anti-es would give anyone a gut. I really don't have bitch tits....but took 80mg nolva just in case.....I did feel a little fat behind the nipple, better safe than sorry. I kept asking her if there was anything else different about my body, and she kept saying no until I finally said, "I DON'T LOOK ANY BIGGER?!?!" Shes like, "Oh yeah......I guess you do." Jesus, that would've been the first thing I noticed.....women, all they see is abs.
I feel great tho. I can feel the extra test. I'm probably gonna do a blood test next week to see how much is in me. My libido is through the roof. My wife can't seem to handle a twice a day, every day commitment, so I'm gonna have to take this into my own hands before I go insane.
Deadlifts tomarrow morning!
11-16-2004, 08:11 PM
11-17-2004, 02:56 PM
Deadlifts were fun as usual, but I didn't get as much as I wanted to. Only got 325 for 2 instead of the 6 I was shooting for. My lower back was feeling weak and I didn't want to push those extra reps. I still felt pretty good in the gym tho.
My muscles are really starting to grow like a mofo. My biceps are peaking more than I've ever seen them and there are alot more lines on my quads. I think the 4ad cyp and 1test cyp are finally at their full effect. I got horizontal push/pull on friday, which will be great for gauging strength increase.
I also have to go run an ISA (the place to get the vehicles ready for a train before deployments) a couple of hours away all weekend and monday and tuesday of next week. I'll have access to a gym and plenty of good food, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to bring my **** to pin with. I can pin before I leave saturday, then if theres a way to draw my syringe before I leave and then store it somehow until monday that would be ideal. I don't want any of the soldiers seeing me pin or seeing my pinnning paraphanilia either. Hopefully I'll have my own room so it won't be an issue. We'll see.
How detrimental is missing one injection then taking double the amount the next time?
11-18-2004, 03:07 PM
Damn glen, is that avatar you? Looking ripped!Originally Posted by glenihan
I'm up a full 15 pounds now. I look a lot bigger everywhere. I need to do new measurements cause I know I put a lot on my arms, the biceps are peaking really nicely. I also got a new vein in my right shoulder! My gut is getting big too. I really don't know if thats bloat tho (god I hope it is....I thought that thing was gone for good about a year ago ). I have some letro coming, which I may use at a low dose in place of the nolva. It'll also kill that bloat until I do the MDHT following the M1,4. I'm also increasing my dose of M1,4 to 210mg ED. I'll still run it for 30 days, but I want to try to push the dose a little.
Injections are fun. Took a full 2.7 CCs in my right buttcheek again. I think I want to do Test Prop next time just so I can inject daily. Was thinking maybe a short cycle of Test Prop/M1T....anyone tried that before? Anyways, got horizontal push/pull tomarrow, so that should be fun.
11-18-2004, 03:49 PM
thanks a lot Rob yeah that's me in the avatar its from the end of the summer i weighted about 184 not sure on the body fat
i'm up to 200 right now and body fat has increased i would guess about 3-4%
but back to you that's amazing you're already up 15 pounds, i wouldn't worry about the gut i would definitely think its water weight, the letro will definitely kill that
as for test prop and m1t if you are gonna put up with m1t's horrible sides and pin ed, why not use tren ace and put up with its horrible sides since you're pinning every day anyway
11-18-2004, 04:29 PM
Well, I'm gonna buy my **** in prague, so I'm not sure I'll be able to find tren in pharmacies there. Isn't it a vetrinary thing? I figure that since 4AD kills alot of M1T's sides, I figure test prop would do an even better job of that. Also doesn't tren mess with your head a little bit? I really don't need that.Originally Posted by glenihan
11-18-2004, 04:36 PM
I don't know if my gut looks that big and its a water thing......how real are the rest of my gains. I've read you can keep Dbol gains.....I guess I'll find out .Originally Posted by glenihan
I'm scared I'm going to gain a LOT bf on this bulk, I was planning on a little bf gain, but I don't want to gain more than 2-3% bf, and only gain that much if the muscle gains are comparable.
11-18-2004, 09:50 PM
I'm 3 weeks into a Sledge Test/M4ohn/M1,4AD cycle and I've building quite the gut as well. It came on really rapidly so I'm sure its mostly water. I've just now ramped up to 100mg of M,1,4..diggin it so far. No gyno symptoms whatsoever. Up 7 pounds so far.
11-19-2004, 02:30 AM
Sounds good. A couple of questions for you....how long is your cycle going to be? How do you like the M4ohn? What dosage are you running? Can you feel it?Originally Posted by bioman
11-20-2004, 04:43 AM
Day 12 and 13
I think that 245 thing was bull****. I took a massive dump shortly after that and was lost a few pounds
I think the 1-test is giving me lethargy. I just want to sleep, alot. My horizontal push/pull workout was pretty mediocre. My muscles just felt exhausted.
Have that ISA mission coming up. I leave today and I'll be back tuesday. I have access to a gym, but the idea of resting for a couple of days and watching DVDs and occossionally doing the mission sounds very appealing to me. I need a break.
Injected todays and mondays dosages at the same time so I wouldn't have to bring any needles on the mission. Tried the bicep and it sucked ass. Only got .1 CCs in there before the pain was unbearable.
On continue with my log on Tuesday.....it'll be day 16.
11-24-2004, 10:31 AM
Went to the ISA and realized yet again that the army is full of too much political bull**** and that the vast majority of staff officers do more harm than good to mission success.
Aside from that, I managed to eat like a horse there, just had to eat less clean than I normally would. Lots of granola bars, tuna, and adkins crap. I don't like all the fat in the adkins food, but army shoppettes have very limited selections and I needed protein and didn't want canned tuna and chicken for every meal .
I also hit the gym twice and had two very good workouts. My leg push day was good, no PRs but I threw around pretty good weights using perfect form. My vertical push/pull day was good too. I did 90mg of M1,4 an hour beforehand. I felt really strong, but my biceps got so pumped it was painful and I had trouble doing any exercise that had alot of biceps in it. My intensity was unreal tho and I don't know if it was the mirror or what, but I looked HUGE. I toughed out the painful pumps and finished my workout, but I think I'm going to stick to 60mg pwo.
I've been upping my dose of M1,4 to 210mg ED also. Its seems to get better the higher I go.
My wife just picked up a package at work that I think is my letro, so I'll use a small dose of that to see if that gut I got overnight is for real.
11-25-2004, 05:24 PM
Did my leg pull workout today. I'm not really going up in weight too much, just getting more reps and more sets on all my exercises. Continuing to do Nolva at 60mg ED. Hopefully the Letro arrives tomarrow. I used calipers and I was at 12.76%, but I look more like 15-16% from all the bloating.
11-26-2004, 02:58 PM
No thats not a typo. I had to get off the scale and get back on to make sure I wasn't going crazy. I figure thanksgiving must've been good to me, either that or the cyps are kicking in hardcore. I can't believe I'm up 20 pounds in 19 days. Thats insane.
I've been having some annoying problems in the bedroom. No problem getting it up or anything, I just can't finish. I figure its gotta be the 1Test. I've had this problem in the past while on MD and M5AA. I took horny goat weed/yohimbe last time and it corrected the problem. I think I'll try that again.
11-26-2004, 03:41 PM
20lbs? Jeez... Has your water broken yet?
I hear Macca has some nice effects in the BR. I've yet to test it though.
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