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    Virgin here!


    Okay brothers, I'm ready for the next level! Totally excited about my first cycle, but I need lots of guidance. I am also open to constructive criticism.

    Stats...
    Finishing my 2rd year of natty training
    Height 6'2''
    Weight 215@14%bf
    Start weight 2years ago.. A sickly 170lbs
    Age 31 in Oct.



    Planning cycle now, for spring (March)
    Plan on running a 12 week cycle
    Dbol /test e/Winny
    Dbol @50mg a week /test e? No idea never pinned anything /Winny?

    Dosing needs a lot of help since my cherry hasn't been popped. All the heavy hitters around here would dose higher I would imagine..
    Im going to log the hell out of this! Pics n all
    I feel that this could be beneficial for a lot of virgins out there.
    I know this is a little early, but I like to plan it all out making sure everything is on hand especially my pct, which needs instruction as well. For now I plan on running clomid..and dmaa.
    On cycle assist?
    Am I bitting off more than I should or am I in the right frame of mind? Go big or go home?





    Hope the images were adequate.. Im doing this via smart phone...

    Thanks in advance for all the help and knowledge I've done a ton of homework on this through this forum. I love this place... Peace
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    You have a good base to start from. I like the cycle. Simple sweet and its gunna work. I am on my phone now but I will throw some knowledge at you when I get to a computer. Few questions tho...

    What are you using for a during cycle AI? What about PCT? How are you thinking of dosing the Test?
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Dose test twice a week @ 250 a dose. Drop the dbol down to 25 or so to start. If you start packing on size at 25, 50's wasteful. Winny i think a good start is around 50. My layout would look something like

    1-4 25mg dbol ed 250mg test mon/thurs
    5-10 250 test mon/ thurs
    10-12 same dose test, winny 50mg ed
    13&14 winny @ 50 ed
    Week 15 starts pct.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    clomid for the pct, ... Al is gonna be erase... Honesty I could use some guidance here.. Dosing is what freaks me out a little since I've never cycled.... Solid base to start with, I think. My goals are to be a solid dense 240 @10%bf.. I've seen my body transform natty style in the last 2yrs... I don't wanna wait till I'm 40 to see the end results..

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    You two got me all excited now! Honestly if it wasn't for this site my training would be sub par at best

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    clomid for the pct, ... Al is gonna be erase... Honesty I could use some guidance here.. Dosing is what freaks me out a little since I've never cycled.... Solid base to start with, I think. My goals are to be a solid dense 240 @10%bf.. I've seen my body transform natty style in the last 2yrs... I don't wanna wait till I'm 40 to see the end results..

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Get a real ai bro. Erase isnt strong enough to block the estro from your gear of choice. Exemestane is a solid choice, adex works too but the estro rebound can be a bitch.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Get a real ai bro. Erase isnt strong enough to block the estro from your gear of choice. Exemestane is a solid choice, adex works too but the estro rebound can be a bitch.
    I assume you have some evidence to back up that claim.

    This, on the other hand, suggests otherwise:
    Iron Liver is getting his bllods draws, interesting INFO INside, PLS COME ON IN.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja
    I assume you have some evidence to back up that claim.

    This, on the other hand, suggests otherwise:
    Iron Liver is getting his bllods draws, interesting INFO INside, PLS COME ON IN.
    Well call it personal experience and leave it at that :-)

    Besides. Having a strong ai (letro, exem)and nolva on hand during ANY cycle is viewed as necessity by anyone with experience with aas.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Well call it personal experience and leave it at that :-)

    Besides. Having a strong ai (letro, exem)and nolva on hand during ANY cycle is viewed as necessity by anyone with experience with aas.
    Erase is a steroidal AI and will do the job as indicated by the bloods provided by a user on 1000mg/wk of Test E.
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    I've ran erase on a cut this spring (natty of course) my joints hurt like he'll. That's a good sign of suppression. Correct? Either way I'm still gonna use letra this time... I just wanna be 100 on this... It's my body so I wanna stay safe... And not go gyno!

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2 View Post
    I've ran erase on a cut this spring (natty of course) my joints hurt like he'll. That's a good sign of suppression. Correct? Either way I'm still gonna use letra this time... I just wanna be 100 on this... It's my body so I wanna stay safe... And not go gyno!

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    It's one of the signs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Erase is a steroidal AI and will do the job as indicated by the bloods provided by a user on 1000mg/wk of Test E.
    Ok and the gyno bout off of superdrol mechabol and dbol while taking erase must have been some other hormone. Maybe progestin. But i wasnt lactating. So that points at estro. Im not saying erase is bad. Ive used it and had it work well actually, but with multiple compounds i ran into issues. And quite honestly all was well until i added the dbol.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Ok and the gyno bout off of superdrol mechabol and dbol while taking erase must have been some other hormone. Maybe progestin. But i wasnt lactating. So that points at estro. Im not saying erase is bad. Ive used it and had it work well actually, but with multiple compounds i ran into issues. And quite honestly all was well until i added the dbol.
    Do you have bloods to support this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    Do you have bloods to support this?
    Yeah i got bloods on cycle for a touch of gyno because i wanted to blow through a grand for a pre, mid, oh sh*t gyno, and post cycle tests.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    I've ran erase on a cut this spring (natty of course) my joints hurt like he'll. That's a good sign of suppression. Correct? Either way I'm still gonna use letra this time... I just wanna be 100 on this... It's my body so I wanna stay safe... And not go gyno!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
    Letro is rough bud. I recommend adex on cycle and exemestane or erase in pct. You don't want low estrogen or sex drive and muscle growth will stop.

    For example if your natty test is 500 and your normal estro level is 15. On cycle you might get your test at around 1500 so you want your estro around 45-50. Its how your body maintains balance. If you get your test around 1500 and smash estro to 15 your gunna be miserable. Estrogen isn't bad... a lot of it is. On cycle all you have to do is keep it from getting out of control. Your bodyfat is already low so chance of gyno is very low if estrogen is in check.

    Check the threads I started and look at the one about Serms and AIs. Read about adex (anastrozole). Let me know and I can help you with finding a sweet spot to dose at so you keep bloat gone but stay horny and growing.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Dave, if I'm understanding the thread right... Letro is only used if you already have gyno, hence proper ai=less chance of gyno.. So I guess my choice is exesemane or adex.. What is your opinion between the two om leaning towards adex... Also on my pct clomid looks a little harsh to me... Is nolva in your opinion a better route?

    Its preemptive bro. I had trouble a couple weeks ago when I was at 4.5mg of letrozole. Now its 2mg and I'm tapering off and on to aromasin.

    If it weren't for the gyno reversal then it wouldn't be necessary.
    From your thread Dave

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    Okay so if a vile is 250mg/10ml at the dosing you recommend how many uses is that... Trying to get my math down before completing purchase.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    Okay so if a vile is 250mg/10ml at the dosing you recommend how many uses is that... Trying to get my math down before completing purchase.

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    Each 1ml is 250mg so do the math from there

    5 weeks worth 2 shots of test a week which is 2ml a week and you have 10ml
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    Got it man... Thank you Mr. Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    Dave, if I'm understanding the thread right... Letro is only used if you already have gyno, hence proper ai=less chance of gyno.. So I guess my choice is exesemane or adex.. What is your opinion between the two om leaning towards adex... Also on my pct clomid looks a little harsh to me... Is nolva in your opinion a better route?

    Its preemptive bro. I had trouble a couple weeks ago when I was at 4.5mg of letrozole. Now its 2mg and I'm tapering off and on to aromasin.

    If it weren't for the gyno reversal then it wouldn't be necessary.
    From your thread Dave

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    You will want adex on cycle. Exemestane (aromasin) in pct. The reason is adex doesn't work with nolva. The chemically fight over the same receptors/enzymes. So exemestane is used instead. Adex is fast acting and is easy to dose. Exemestane is also superior to adex when it comes to stimulation of LH and FSH in pct. Combined with a SERM it is a sure fast road to recovery. It is also shown to raise IGF-1 levels as well.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    My way of saying thanks for the help!
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/company-promotions/185904-athletix-girls-if-post3569121.html


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    For those following my thread here's some awesome research..
    Are you sure about that?

    Clomid, Nolvadex, and Testosterone Stimulation

    Posted on Mar 29, 2002 in Advanced Science
    by: William Llewellyn

    Editors Note: I am extremely pleased to have Bill Llewellyn contributing an article for us this week. For those who are unaware, he is the author of Anabolics 2000 and Anabolics 2002 and is one of the bodybuilding world’s foremost experts on androgens and anabolics. He is also the President of Molecular Nutrition, one of the most innovative companies in this business. Along with Avant Labs and ErgoPharm, Molecular Nutrition is one of the few companies dedicated to putting forth only those products backed by legitimate research, rather than excessive hype and other such B.S. Two products, in particular, that deserve to be more well-known are Viritase, a potent anti-estrogen, and Boldione, a boldenone precursor. To find out more about these, and the rest of their products, I reccomend that you head over to their website — but only after you have finsished reading big Mf’r and spent all of your money on our products, of course

    Now, on to the article:
    Introduction

    I have received a lot of heat lately about my preference for Nolvadex over Clomid, which I hold for all purposes of use (in the bodybuilding world anyway); as an anti-estrogen, an HDL (good) cholesterol-supporting drug, and as a testosterone-stimulating compound. Most people use Nolvadex to combat gynecomastia over Clomid anyway, so that is an easy sell. And for cholesterol, well, most bodybuilders unfortunately pay little attention to this important issue, so by way of disinterest, another easy opinion to discuss. But when it comes to using Nolvadex for increasing endogenous testosterone release, bodybuilders just do not want to hear it. They only seem to want Clomid. I can only guess that this is based on a long rooted misunderstanding of the actions of the two drugs. In this article I would therefore like to discuss the specifics for these two agents, and explain clearly the usefulness of Nolvadex for the specific purpose of increasing testosterone production.
    Clomid and Nolvadex

    I am not sure how Clomid and Nolvadex became so separated in the minds of bodybuilders. They certainly should not be. Clomid and Nolvadex are both anti-estrogens belonging to the same group of triphenylethylene compounds. They are structurally related and specifically classified as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with mixed agonistic and antagonistic properties. This means that in certain tissues they can block the effects of estrogen, by altering the binding capacity of the receptor, while in others they can act as actual estrogens, activating the receptor. In men, both of these drugs act as anti-estrogens in their capacity to oppose the negative feedback of estrogens on the hypothalamus and stimulate the heightened release of GnRH (Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone). LH output by the pituitary will be increased as a result, which in turn can increase the level of testosterone by the testes. Both drugs do this, but for some reason bodybuilders persist in thinking that Clomid is the only drug good at stimulating testosterone. What you will find with a little investigation however is that not only is Nolvadex useful for the same purpose, it should actually be the preferred agent of the two.

    Studies conducted in the late 1970′s at the University of Ghent in Belgium make clear the advantages of using Nolvadex instead of Clomid for increasing testosterone levels (1). Here, researchers looked the effects of Nolvadex and Clomid on the endocrine profiles of normal men, as well as those suffering from low sperm counts (oligospermia). For our purposes, the results of these drugs on hormonally normal men are obviously the most relevant. What was found, just in the early parts of the study, was quite enlightening. Nolvadex, used for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, which was on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration (the testosterone increase was slightly, but not significantly, better for Clomid). We must remember though that this is the effect of three 50mg tablets of Clomid. With the price of both a 50mg Clomid and 20mg Nolvadex typically very similar, we are already seeing a cost vs. results discrepancy forming that strongly favors the Nolvadex side.
    Pituitary Sensitivity to GnRH

    But something more interesting is happening. Researchers were also conducting GnRH stimulation tests before and after various points of treatment with Nolvadex and Clomid, and the two drugs had markedly different results. These tests involved infusing patients with 100mcg of GnRH and measuring the output of pituitary LH in response. The focus of this test is to see how sensitive the pituitary is to Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone. The more sensitive the pituitary, the more LH will be released. The tests showed that after ten days of treatment with Nolvadex, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH increased slightly compared to pre-treated values. This is contrast to 10 days of treatment with 150mg Clomid, which was shown to consistently DECREASE pituitary sensitivity to GnRH (more LH was released before treatment). As the study with Nolvadex progresses to 6 weeks, pituitary sensitivity to GnRH was significantly higher than pre-treated or 10-day levels. At this point the same 20mg dosage was also raising testosterone and LH levels to an average of 183% and 172% of base values, respectively, which again is measurably higher than what was noted 10 days into therapy. Within 10 days of treatment Clomid is already exerting an effect that is causing the pituitary to become slightly desensitized to GnRH, while prolonged use of Nolvadex serves only to increase pituitary sensitivity to this hormone. That is not to say Clomid won’t increase testosterone if taken for the same 6 week time period. Quite the opposite is true. But we are, however, noticing an advantage in Nolvadex.
    The Estrogen Clomid

    The above discrepancies are likely explained by differences in the estrogenic nature of the two compounds. The researchers’ clearly support this theory when commenting in their paper, “The difference in response might be attributable to the weak intrinsic estrogenic effect of Clomid, which in this study manifested itself by an increase in transcortin and testosterone/estradiol-binding globulin [SHBG] levels; this increase was not observed after tamoxifen treatment”. In reviewing other theories later in the paper, such as interference by increased androgen or estrogen levels, they persist in noting that increases in these hormones were similar with both drug treatments, and state that,” …a role of the intrinsic estrogenic activity of Clomid which is practically absent in Tamoxifen seems the most probable explanation”.

    Although these two are related anti-estrogens, they appear to act very differently at different sites of action. Nolvadex seems to be strongly anti-estrogenic at both the hypothalamus and pituitary, which is in contrast to Clomid, which although a strong anti-estrogen at the hypothalamus, seems to exhibit weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary. To find further support for this we can look at an in-vitro animal study published in the American Journal of Physiology in February 1981 (2). This paper looks at the effects of Clomid and Nolvadex on the GnRH stimulated release of LH from cultured rat pituitary cells. In this paper, it was noted that incubating cells with Clomid had a direct estrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cell sensitivity, exerting a weaker but still significant effect compared to estradiol. Nolvadex on the other hand did not have any significant effect on LH response. Furthermore it mildly blocked the effects of estrogen when both were incubated in the same culture.
    Conclusion

    To summarize the above research succinctly, Nolvadex is the more purely anti-estrogenic of the two drugs, at least where the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary
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    I found this post from David Dunn

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    Thats a great article. Ive read that a few times now and always seem to retain more every time i read it. His book "anabolics" has some great info in it as well if you got some spare cash and a few minutes to read.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream
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    Sounds good! I'll see if it's on an ebook...


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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2
    Sounds good! I'll see if it's on an ebook...

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    Definitely is on kindle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    You will want adex on cycle. Exemestane (aromasin) in pct. The reason is adex doesn't work with nolva. The chemically fight over the same receptors/enzymes. So exemestane is used instead. Adex is fast acting and is easy to dose. Exemestane is also superior to adex when it comes to stimulation of LH and FSH in pct. Combined with a SERM it is a sure fast road to recovery. It is also shown to raise IGF-1 levels as well.
    Okay I wanna make sure I grasp this correctly... Run adex on cycle until my pct.. Then exemestane with Nolvadex pct... At first I was all about clomid until I read the article I posted.. I don't like the potential sides of vision loss.. Seeing how I wear contacts already.. And I don't wanna be super emotional.. Lol not only that but Nolvadex looks to be superior....

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasfinest2

    Okay I wanna make sure I grasp this correctly... Run adex on cycle until my pct.. Then exemestane with Nolvadex pct... At first I was all about clomid until I read the article I posted.. I don't like the potential sides of vision loss.. Seeing how I wear contacts already.. And I don't wanna be super emotional.. Lol not only that but Nolvadex looks to be superior....

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    Thatll do just fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Definitely is on kindle.
    Haha! Dl'd to my Kindle phone only 10$! Super excited to read!

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
  30. Advanced Member
    texasfinest2's Avatar
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    An update... I have adjusted my first cycle a bit after some research. I'm only running test e. No dbol or anything else on my first go around. I have the test on hand and my tamoxifen citrate. Waiting on my pins to be delivered and then it's on!
  31. Advanced Member
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    Alright so I broke my cherry last night!
    I'm On test e 300mgs. I pinned w/ a 22g 1.5. Honestly I didn't feel a thing! Now I pinned last night and this morning I barely feel any pip. I'll be pinning 2x a week for 10 weeks. I have enough gear to extend to 15 weeks if need be.
    I decided to only run the test e just to experience how my body reacts to it alone. So ill post some recent b4s.

    Stats as of today are :
    194lbs @12%bf
    31yrs old
    3yrs training
    Calories will be upwards of 4000 a day
    I started this log so I can learn about what I'm doing, and also so other first timers can learn as well. I'll be updating weekly. Sometimes more. I'm logging on another forum as well.
    I got tamoxifen citrate on hand from purus labs, and lecheek nutrition pct as well. Good multi vitamin. I'm waiting on my ai. With my low bf I'm not expecting any gyno at this stage. Please follow me and comment. I'm here to learn brothers!


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  32. Advanced Member
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    Pretty sure I hit the right spot

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  33. Advanced Member
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  34. Advanced Member
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  35. Professional Member
    Lukef2000's Avatar
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    I've tried replying to this three damn times but for some reason AM won't let my posts go through. Good luck bro I'm in. Looks like the others that chimed in had you on the right path.
  36. Advanced Member
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    For sure.. There's some really cool dudes in here that take their time with the learning impared such as myself! Lol..
    Its funny how your plans change. I had this huge cycle planned for the spring, which I may still do, but i wanted to run the test by itself first. Get a good feel for it!

    Okay so it's been about 36 hours since my first injection and my pip is barely there. Must of done it the right way.
    Next injection will be Tuesday afternoon after work.. So I'm hitting it sat and Tues. Should I push it to wed?

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  37. Diamond Member
    Sean1332's Avatar
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    I saw "Virgin" and that the thread had pictures.

    I'm sincerely disappointed there was no vagina
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    sean@ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.
  38. New Member
    Vegastex's Avatar
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    I love the article on Clomid I purchased Nolvadex for my Pct then I was told I needed Clomid, so I have been scrambling to get an order in so I been trying to find what I will do for my next cycle since they charge $29.00 for shipping, I wanted to order all at once. I have three more weeks left of my testosterone cypionate cycle @ 500 mg a week pin twice a week @ 250 mg. This has been a great first cycle for me. Can anyone recommend a good cycle for my next adventure.
  39. Advanced Member
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    I'm pretty sure All you need is nolva on a test c only cycle. I think clomid is better for Tren. From what I read clomid can be quite harsh.

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  40. New Member
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    I heard the same thing about Clomid. Thanks for reply. I read before I started my cycle Nolvadex works great then my buddy at the gym said I needed Clomid to get my balls working again, needless to say kinda scared me don't want to lose the girl friend. I'm getting ready to order for my next cycle this spring, now I have some experience under my belt I'm going to make sure i do all my home work and have all the right gear.
  

  
 

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