Mandime (aka IrishEndo) and GermanMeso's Helladrol Co-Log

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    Mandime (aka IrishEndo) and GermanMeso's Helladrol Co-Log


    Ok, I created this thread a few days ago but it got deleted so let's try again. I think this could be benneficial to see how two different people running the same exact cycle react:

    Original Post:
    OK, Here’s yet ANOTHER Helladrol log. Only one slight twist; it’s a co-log. Mandime (aka IrishEndo) is teaming up withGermanMeso (fellow anabolic minds user) to create a co-log where we will both follow the exact same protocoland log our results here. I will give mystats and background in this post and he will chime in later and give his.



    First, Here’s the layout of the cycle.

    Pre:
    1 week of loading with milk thistle and hawthorn berry



    Cycle :
    Helladrol 50/75/75/75/75/100 (maybe 100 the last 2 weeks,depending on how we feel)
    Cycle assist
    Multivitamin
    Fish Oil (****loads)

    PCT:

    Tamoxifen Citrate 40/30/20/10

    Erase 0/0/3/2/2/1
    DAA 3/3/3/3
    Cycle Assist until its gone then back to milk thistle andhawthorn berry
    Creatine monohydrate
    Some type of pre-WO sup
    Fish Oil (****loads)


    (We also have arimidex and torem on hand just in case. We purchased our nolva/torem on differentsites that others have vouched for but have both just in case)

    We are lifting partners and have both been lifting seriouslyfor 2+ years. We both eat verymeticulously and have seen great results natty but have decided to give a PHcycle a go. I am 25 years old, weighright at 200lbs, and am 6’1”. Let meknow what you guys think about this setup. Any comments/criticism/or input in general is welcome. Today is day one and we're heading to the gym now. Let's get it!

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    good luck guys
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    Ok, so today was day 1 at 50mg. I went to visit my girlfriend last night and barely slept last night so was SUPER tired today and the workout suffered because of it. It was shoulders. Tomorrow is arms and high rep legs. Also, I know I probably sound like a troll even mentioning this but I feel like my nipples feel different and have been touching them all day. I am VERY paranoid about getting gyno so I'm sure this is all mental. A question though, if I feel that this does become an issue should I run arimidex at a low dose ED or EOD or maybe some of the Erase?

    Thanks and will update tomorrow.
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    Strange that the last thread got deleted.

    Stats: About to turn 24, lifting 2 years seriously. 6'3 225

    Lifting stats: B: 225x10, 315x1 / S: 315x10 / D: 500x1, 405xreps

    Bulged a disc in my back a while back and have recently started deadlifting again. Hit a 315 5x5 pretty easy yesterday. Back is sore as ****.

    Today was day 1.
    Was very nervous all morning until i finally took the first dose. Kind of a weird day TBH. Hit shoulders, hypertrophy, so nothing crazy.
    Kinda have a dull headache as im typing this. Probably more mental than anything.
    either way, hitting legs and some arms tomorrow.

    i suppose the first week or two will be kinda boring, but i'll continue to log it.
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    Day 2:

    Yesterday was arms/high volume squats. Had a sick pump. Also, I now know what "back pumps" are. After 3 sets of 20 squats my back was throbbing. I took 2g of taurine before. I think I'll double that from now on. 2 more days of 50 then upping it to 75. Also, I'm trying to change my work schedule around so I can hit the gym 5x a week. Right now I'm only able to go 4x. Also, side effect wise, I'm finding it VERY hard to sleep. Once I do finally fall asleep I wake up super early... I've tried melatonin and benedryl. I have some ambien/xanax lying around but I never get a really restful nights sleep if I take that stuff so I'm probably just going to stick with trying to fall asleep natty. Anyone have any advice on how to improve sleep? I also have proprananol, a beta blocker for lowering blood pressure. Would this be beneficial for bedtime?

    Tonight after work I'm going to go hit abs in my building's gym and do some very light cardio and take tomorrow off completely. I'll update after chest day on Monday.
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    i usually have some phenibut for those nights. havent needed any lately due to supps im running now but I love that stuff for sleep/relaxing
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattys4 View Post
    i usually have some phenibut for those nights. havent needed any lately due to supps im running now but I love that stuff for sleep/relaxing
    Thanks for the reply. I've never tried phenubit before. What dose do you take and how long before bed? Also, do you experience any morning grogginess?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandime View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I've never tried phenubit before. What dose do you take and how long before bed? Also, do you experience any morning grogginess?
    Its pretty good stuff. I take 1-2 grams so up to 4 caps(.5 ea) if SNS brand. I dont always take right before bed its usually taken2 caps after work then 2 more a lil later an hour or so before bed. I take it more for stress relief/mood so I like to be awake a lil while after I take it.
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    I have a question regarding AI's and what to do if either of us develop any signs of gyno. I have heard of a couple options. 1 is to run a very light dose of a SERM (typically nolva) while continuing your cycle. 2. Use an AI on cycle. Many people seem to frown away from running the SERM while on cycle so the AI seems like the right option. My question is this:

    I have both liquid arimidex and Erase and want to know which one would be more suited for this application. Since Erase is suicidal AI it seems that this would be more suited for this application but I've read that many people run arimidex, especially with compounds that tend to aromatize. If either of us show any signs of developing gyno what approach should we take?
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    Adex competes for the same receptors as nolva. So use dex on cycle, and use erase in pct. run the erase 1/2/3/3/2/1 or 0/0/3/3/2/1. Run dex on cycle at .25 Ed for a week then drop it to .25 eod. If ur still experiencing problems u'll have to play with the side a but till u figure out what works for u. Ur just running hdrol so estro sides shouldn't be a problem. Althought it can happen. Estro is needed to gain so if at all try not to use an AI. Formeron or forma surge are both good OTC ai's u can use on cycle
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Quote Originally Posted by csa2179 View Post
    Adex competes for the same receptors as nolva. So use dex on cycle, and use erase in pct. run the erase 1/2/3/3/2/1 or 0/0/3/3/2/1. Run dex on cycle at .25 Ed for a week then drop it to .25 eod. If ur still experiencing problems u'll have to play with the side a but till u figure out what works for u. Ur just running hdrol so estro sides shouldn't be a problem. Althought it can happen. Estro is needed to gain so if at all try not to use an AI. Formeron or forma surge are both good OTC ai's u can use on cycle
    Thanks for the help man. Like I said, I just want the knowledge before hand so I don't find myself scrambling. With regard to the Erase in PCT, what do you think is optimal? I am leaning towards the taper up then down instead of waiting until week 3 as it would seem that your estrogen might be high right away in the PCT. What do you think seems optimal?
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    It doesn't matter, I can't remebber why, but I know the both work. Personally I run the 1/2/3/3/2/1.
    Christopher
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/239904-csa2179s-hulk-mirror.html#post4289751
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    Day 4

    I got off work late last night and went to the small gym in my apartment and did some ab work and some cardio. I finally had a good nights sleep. I wake up at least 2x a night to pee though (all the damn water I'm drinking). When I woke up this morning I drank a cup of coffee, did my business, then jumped on the scale and I'm up 5.5lbs. WTF? The only thing I've really changed about my diet is upping my protein by about 100g. Carbs are around 200, fats around 80, and protein around 300. This is about 2,700 calories. Hardly enough to cause over 1lb a day. Perhaps this is all largely water weight. If anything I look very slightly leaner but really, just look about the same. Today is an off day and chest will be on Monday. It will also be the first day at 75.
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    Day 5

    Today was chest day. Both GermanMeso and myself used the same weights we normally trained with. I did a 5x5 with 225. It actually felt a lot lighter than normal but I wanted to just go get a baseline. I'll try to add 5lbs next bench day. The pump was good. Overall it was a very solid workout. Nothing crazy but I am definitely thinking than in about a week it's going to be awesome. I moved my schedule around at work so we will now be lifting 4 or 5 times a week.

    I slept like **** again last night. Without question it's the HDrol because I usualy sleep well. I'm going to take .25mg of xanax tonight and try to make up for all the ****ty sleep.

    We're taking tomorrow off then its back day on Wednesday.
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    Day 7

    Today was back day. We're both starting to get a little worn down. Another very average lifting day. Also, I've put on 6lbs total with essentially no change in diet except for increasing my protein by 100g/day. I look and feel bloated as FUUUU. I'm ready to start seeing some gains in the mirror or in the gym. Maybe it'll be like this until week 2. We shall see. We're going to hit heavy leg day tomorrow then shoulders on Friday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandime View Post
    Day 7

    Today was back day. We're both starting to get a little worn down. Another very average lifting day. Also, I've put on 6lbs total with essentially no change in diet except for increasing my protein by 100g/day. I look and feel bloated as FUUUU. I'm ready to start seeing some gains in the mirror or in the gym. Maybe it'll be like this until week 2. We shall see. We're going to hit heavy leg day tomorrow then shoulders on Friday.
    I didnt really 'see' any gains from hdrol until week 3 or so, felt some hunger around the beginning of week 2 though
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    Day 8

    Today was delts. Workout was 6/10. Very average. No increase in weights used on shoulders. Also, no increase in definition or mass. Like many have said, I probably won't see any real gains in size or strength until week 3. Now it's just a waiting game. Also, I look like in the past week I've added 2ish percent bodyfat but the only modification to my diet so far has been 100 extra grams of protein. Weird... Tomorrow is arms/hypertrophy legs.

    Also, this is supposed to be a "co-log." GermanMeso has been posting updates but they all say that they must be approved by a mod.
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    Day 10

    Aight brahs. So far its been 4 days at 50mg and 6 days at 75mg.
    No sides yet. I feel like my nips are trolling me or im trolling myself. Guess im just psyching myself out. I also wake up thirsty as fuk every morning.

    On heavy squat day i did a 5x5 @ 315. felt pretty solid. we'll see how the next heavy day goes.
    Did high rep legs today with biceps (bicep warriors, not srs). hit a 3x15 with 225. was going for a 4th set but my lower back was pumped like crazy and i did not take any taurine beforehand.

    Weight is at 228-229 dry in the morning. gym weight closer to 235. still visible 6 pack when not bloated.
    tomorrow is chest day. we'll see how it goes.
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    Day 12

    It's been a few days since the last update. Two days ago was chest day. Was a solid workout and definitely got a few extra reps out on a slightly heavier weight but still no crazy gains in size or strength.

    Yesterday was arms and high rep legs. The pump was great and I feel that this was a bit of a breakthrough. My joints feel VERY dry and achy, especially my elbows. I'm taking today off and hitting back tomorrow.
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    Day 14

    well its been 2 weeks now.

    had a back w/o tonight and was just feeling off. lower back was killing me. could be due to the fact that i have hit squats 3 times in the last 1.5 weeks. went through some of the motions and decided to cut it short. took 5g of taurine before hand as well. pretty bummed about the lift sesh but gonna put it behind me and focus on the next w/o.

    Alright about the cycle:

    I've been eating like crazy and putting on quite a bit of weight. starting weight was 225 ish and now im sitting at 230ish dry in the morning.

    -joints are def. getting dry and hurt. taking around 10K fish oil a day.
    -low back has been feeling stiff even during daily activities.
    -feels like my nuts have shrunk a bit and libido is down a bit.
    -havent really felt super lethargic to be honest.


    basically what i really want out of this cycle is to gain some lbs, lose some BF, and increase the #'s on my squat and bench as well as add some size to my delts.

    excited about these upcoming 4 weeks. hopefully i'll have some better w/o's.
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    Day 16

    OK. now i am starting to feel good. body feels tighter and more firm. increased muscle hardness. weighed in at 237 today and feeling leaner.

    hit squats tonight and did a 5x5. 325, 325, 335, 345, 325. felt solid as fuk.

    really looking forward to these next 4 weeks.
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    Day 18

    Hitting back tonight.

    I have hit chest and legs since I last posted.All of my workouts are good but nothing crazy so far. Yes, I am hitting slightly more weight than before but nothing absurd. The pumps are CRAZY! Take your taurine!!!


    Overall thoughts:
    I feel very dry and hard. My joints hurt (taking preventative measures)while pushing or pulling. I am hoping to PR on squats/ bench/ military by the end of this little cycle. Also, quite a bit of shrinkage but I'm not too concerned. I am drinking 1.5 gallons of water a day and every morning I wake up DYING of thirst! Don't know what to do about that. Cycle is going well though. No real sides besides lethargy. I wish I could sleep for 10 hours a night.
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    Looks like your guys' cycles are going well. Keep up the good work!
    @mandime: I used 6g fishoil and a glucosamine/chondroitin (spell check) supplement and that really helped my joints. Felt no dryness on epi or the epi/hdrol stack. What are you using currently?
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    Almost end of week 3


    Feeling solid as fuk. only sides are dry joints, low libido, and a little bit of lethargy.

    Gym weight tonight was 240 lbs. hit shoulders and got a pretty solid pump. the weight seemed super light.

    hit bench two days ago and felt strong. did a 5x5 but went up 10 lbs each set. 225 all the way to 265. feel confident that i will be able to hit 315 for a few at the end of the cycle.

    really debating whether or not to go to 100mg for the last 3 weeks given the fact that i weight quite a bit right now. thoughts??
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    Nice log - Glad everything is going well! Ending day 15 myself, haven't seen much so far besides some shrinkage, lethargy and THIRST as you mentioned.

    The lethargy is such a SOB, funny how quick it goes away when you get to the gym though.
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    Tonight was back and bis.

    I'm having a real hard time with back exercises. back pumps are super painful making anything back related a real pain in the ass. felt slightly discouraged because of it because my back is one of my weak points in terms of width. took 6grams of taurine as well.

    i would rather squat heavy as fuk than have to go through another back w/o.

    tomorrow is hypertrophy squats and might throw in a 5x5 bench routine as well.
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    Day 21

    Today was biceps/hypertrophy legs. It was an ok workout. The novelty of the crazy pump has worn thin and it now is almost getting in the way sometimes.

    Side note: I mildly injured my left shoulder last chest day... Ugh... Other than that things are going well. I went to my family's lake house this past weekend and both my mother and sister asked what I was taking to get so big... So needless to say, I think it's working.
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    been readin past few days and very good stuff so far gentlemen; sorry for the late follow, but def count me in for this badboy. Starting my hella in a few weeks after pre-loading soon and very excited, best of luck to both of yous two and def gonna follow this!
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    End of week 3

    Alright...so im about to start week 4.

    hit light squats tonight (3x15 w/ 185lbs). Now this weight and rep range is super super easy for me normally. i got the worst back pumps from this. i know my form is correct as well. im a squat connoisseur if i may. squat day is by far my favorite. anyway...it took me roughly 30 minutes to recover from the back pumps.

    So here is what i have to say.... I am on the fence on whether or not i am enjoying this cycle. Strength has def. improved but the quality of 60% of my workouts has been ****..utter ****. My diet is in check. gaining weight steadily. cycle supps are on point as well.

    In my opinion, you should not even consider doing deadlifts on cycle or higher than 5 rep squats.

    The actual muscle pumps are insane. ie. My forearms explode every time i touch some heavier weight.

    To be honest i just want to finish this cycle and get back to normal. I am not dogging steroids and am glad i did a cycle but i just dont think its for me. Even if it is a fairly mild cycle, i was content with how i looked before and with my strength.

    I might just be saying all this now due to the fact that back pumps have ruined some of my workouts.

    Oh well... gonna try my best to finish off these last 3 weeks with some good gains. Would like to hit 405 squat and be able to rep 315 on bench for a few. These are my goals. fuk getting my deadlift up...not worth the pain.
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    End of week 3

    To piggyback off of GermanMeso's post, I have been told by MANY people now that it looks like I blew up. Which is good I guess but its odd that it happened so quickly. My nutrition is on point and bf% has possibly dropped a few points and weight is up quite a bit as well.

    I want to start cutting. I know, I know. I am tempted to start cutting for these last 3 weeks and drop a few bf% but I think I'm going to stick with eating slightly over maintenance and continue "bulking." Durring PCT I am going to eat right around maintenance and try to make the gains "stick" and let my body start getting back to normal.

    A few questions:
    1. How long after PCT is it ok to begin cutting?
    2. Anything (non AAS/PH) that I could take during the cut that would help me retain muscle mass/make it easier? (Thought about clen but I hate stims...)
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    Make sure you guys are taking in 5-10g of taurine pwo and potassium (supps or bananas) and that should ease the back pumps as that has def worked with ppl I know and logs I've read as well.

    I can't speak personally and I'm sure a good amount of other ppl will give advice as well, but I would wait a couple of weeks (2-3) after pct, plus the 1-2 weeks of preventing e rebound to start cutting or you will lose it all. Nearly happened to me on my first sarms run around and I would recommend highly osta sarms between 12.5-25 mg to keep muscle mass as I am not a huge fan of stims either; however for cortisol support lean extreme should be in pct and you can throw in osta into your pct. If not, wait until your cycle/pct is over then run osta as a bridge with a mini pct after that time you almost should be about ready for another cycle, only if you choose to run that 8 weeks; if you guys have any questions about sarms feel free to ask, already did 2 cycles and I love them (S4, Osta and 667)
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    Week 4

    alright...disregard my last post. i was acting like a bitch. just needed to change my training up a bit.

    had a solid back lift sesh last night..finally.

    weight is at a steady 240 in the morning. and my arms have gone from 16.5 to a lil over 17 cold flexed. is this real life???

    feeling pretty hyooge at the moment. gonna try and gain some more weight these last few weeks. hopefully hit 250. gotta make use of the cycle. who cares about a little fat gain.

    hit heavy 5x5 squats today......315, 335, 355 (PR), 335, 315. felt super strong today.

    tomorrow is bench day. looking to hit 275x5 and maybe play around with some 1rms as well.

    no bad sides besides some lethargy, back pumps, and dry joints. worst side is not being able to fit into any of clothes. lolz.
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    I sent a PM yesterday answering your questions, due to poor connection and it was on my phone lemme know if it went through or not and I'll either send another one or answer more questions
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    Day 4 Week 4

    Hit chest today.

    god damn. felt strong as fuk. technically PR'ed three times.

    Flat bench:
    Started with usually bar warmup and 135x10, 225x5, 245x5, 275x5, 295x5, 315x2. The last three were all personal bests. The rest of the chest workout sucked balls considering my elbows and shoulders were hurting like a bitch. still ecstatic about the lifts though.

    I feel confident that i will be able to hit 315x5 by the end of the cycle with ease. Really wondering what my 1RM will be. Hoping to hit something like 350ish.

    Gonna run the last two weeks at 100mg. so im expecting some solid strength gains. 405 squat is calling my name.

    Actually enjoying the cycle very much.
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    Day 6 Week 4

    Aight. so tomorrow is the last day of week 4. gonna start running the hella at 100 starting tomorrow.

    Took yesterday off from the gym after the crazy squat and bench sessions this past weekend.

    Hit the gym tonight, squats, back, and bis.

    Started off with a simple 5x5 squat at 315lbs. I went in intending to do pause squats but i did not have a lifting belt this time. i forgot how much the belt helps with squating, so i ended up not doing pause squats. we are using a not so good harbinger lifting belt and it suprisingly helps quite a bit. looking to get an Inzer 10mm belt here real soon. anyway hit all 5 sets with relative ease. trying to prep my body for attempting a 405 squat during the last week of the cycle.

    my left elbow has been hurting like a bitch from the heavy benching that was done on sunday.

    starting to do 2 hours of cardio a week via swimming (class for school). not the best timing but i would like to trim some BF as i feel kind of chub at the moment. still going to eat big though.

    sitting at 240 ish in the morning.

    all i really want to accomplish during these last two weeks is to hit 315x5 on bench and test my 1rm as well as hit 405 x1 or more squat.
  36. Registered User
    germanmeso's Avatar
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    Day 7 Week 4

    Tried hitting shoulders tonight but i must have really ****ed my left elbow up bad because i was in some serious pain. Decided to scrap the workout and am going to take tomorrow off as well. it was just too painful to continue and i did not want to risk injuring it further.

    elbow feels inflamed as ****.

    friday is heavy squat day. at least my knees feel fine. guess i can really work on hitting some heavy weight.

    hopefully my elbow wont be in pain for chest day this weekend.

    pretty pissed about scrapping my workout but sometimes you gotta take some time off.
  37. Registered User
    howwedo107's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandime
    End of week 3

    To piggyback off of GermanMeso's post, I have been told by MANY people now that it looks like I blew up. Which is good I guess but its odd that it happened so quickly. My nutrition is on point and bf% has possibly dropped a few points and weight is up quite a bit as well.

    I want to start cutting. I know, I know. I am tempted to start cutting for these last 3 weeks and drop a few bf% but I think I'm going to stick with eating slightly over maintenance and continue "bulking." Durring PCT I am going to eat right around maintenance and try to make the gains "stick" and let my body start getting back to normal.

    A few questions:
    1. How long after PCT is it ok to begin cutting?
    2. Anything (non AAS/PH) that I could take during the cut that would help me retain muscle mass/make it easier? (Thought about clen but I hate stims...)
    At least 2-4 weeks after pct to be safe and daa stacked with erase would help you keep gains while cutting a bit
    Email me for free prodigy samples
    Ricky@pni-online.com
    www.pni-online.com
  38. Registered User
    j05441's Avatar
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    Hey bros, I ran hella a few months bacj I ran 50(3days)75/75/75/100/100/100/100
    Dont be scared to bump it up to 100 if your sides are good.
    Also joints, make sure you on that fish oil. Run to walmart and snag you some glcousimin (sp), if you really score you can find a combination of MSM, gluecosimine, as well as CSM. double dose it and those joints will be curred in a few days
  39. Registered User
    mandime's Avatar
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    Week 5 Day 1

    Today was day 2 @100mg. We are both splitting the dose in half, 50mg at 8am, then 50mg at 4pm.

    I had a total bro day in the gym. Arms and abs baby. Besides being a total bs "arm day," it was great. Brb, lifting more on everything related to arms. The pump was great. I have long ass biceps and really want to add some overall size to my arms.

    Things to mention, I slept TERRIBLY last night. I think it was due to the new higher dose but could have been otherwise. Also, I am peeing 5,000x a night. Not srs but probably at least 5 times last night... WTF?

    Last thing I'll mention is this. When I begin my slow cut a few weeks after pct I'm going to run a SARM. I have heard that S4 tends to be better for cutting but the vision sides worry me. Also, is PCT necessary (for the SARM) if run at a low dose for 6 weeks?
  40. Registered User
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    Day 1 Week 5

    Did an hour of swimming today and my ****ing elbow got super inflamed again. per the advice given by "j05441" went out and bought some Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM. double dosing this ****.

    sides to date:

    - lethargy
    - mild upper arm acne (no big deal, already prone to moderate acne)
    - dry painful joints (taking 14k fish oil, and now the glucosamine, chondroitin, msm)

    Gonna hit heavy squats tomorrow and hope to get 365x5. hit 355x5 last week.
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