5AA,1-Test,4AD Cyp +4OHT
- 10-02-2004, 08:15 PM
5AA,1-Test,4AD Cyp +4OHT
Starting a new cycle next week. It's been several months since my last and this one might be interesting enough to keep up with.
Its a 10 week cycle which will consist of 1200 mg 4OHT Trans, 500 mg 5AA Cyp, 900 mg 1-Test Cyp and 1800 mg 4AD Cyp with HCG throughout and Long R3IGF-1 at the end. It breaks down as follows:
P = Prohormones
H = 250iu HCG twice a week
I = Long R3IGF-1 50mcg 3 times a week following work out & 25 mcg maintenance 2 times a week, 2 days off.
N = Nolva dosed at 40/40/30/20
1 - P
2 - P, H
3 - P, H
4 - P, H
5 - P, H
6 - P, H
7 - P, H
8 - P, H
9 - P, H
10 - P, H, I
1 - H, I
2 - N, I
3 - N, I
4 - N, I
Diet will consist of the following:
(Maintenance Diet) Weeks 1,9,10 and week 4 of PCT - 385 grams protein, 279 grams carbs, 100 grams fat for 3556 calories a day.
(Bulking Diet) Weeks 2 thru 8 and weeks 1 thru 3 of PCT - 415 grams protein, 322 grams carbs, 121 grams of fat a day for 4037 calories a day. If too much fat accompanies I can always play with this diet or I may extend this thru weeks 9 and 10 of the cycle if gains are still coming strong.
Beginning stats are:
Chest = 45'
Vaist = 34'
Arms = 16.5'
Weight = 190 lbs.
Height = 5", 6'
BF% = 15
I'm primarily looking for muscle gain with some body re-comp as well. Long term goals are 215 - 225 lbs with 10% BF. But I doubt it will happen this cycle.
Before pics are attached below for your amusement.
Last edited by uridium245; 11-02-2004 at 04:03 PM.
- 10-03-2004, 09:57 PM
Actually, on second thought I think I'll jumpstart this cycle with 5 mg M1T a day for the first two weeks starting October 4th. I've never started this long of a cycle with something as suppresive of HPTA as M1T. What do you guys think? Pros/Cons.
10-05-2004, 11:51 AM
10-05-2004, 12:56 PM
HCG would be a major benefit when running the cycle you laid out. it looks like a solid cycle and frankly, i'm jealous of the longR3-IGF. it's too expensive for my blood. the combination of that and HCG should give you a great PCT. only thing i would add might be some clen at the end. i add it to my pct for the first 2 weeks to fight off catabolism. however, i also never ran the IGF. might be overkill.
10-05-2004, 01:20 PM
a bit similar to my current cycle. you should be pleased with this one. If you jumpstart with M1T I might suggest you lrun it for the first 3 weeks and lower your 1-test cyp dosage while on M1T.
good luck bro!
10-06-2004, 01:52 AM
Unfortunately I can't take clomid. Mommas little boy doesn't play well with Cloey. Some people get irritable or whinny, but I just get friggin mean.
Which is too bad. Why just the other day at work after dealing with a total idiot, one of my co-workers remarked "You know, you really are one well adjusted mother ****er."
As far as the cost of the IGF goes... what my wife doen't know, won't hurt me.
10-06-2004, 02:10 AM
Why three weeks pestis? M1T mass gains seem to peek at about 2 weeks for me. After that I get nothing but strength, sides and shriveled acorns.
I was actually thinking about cutting it down to one week as it takes about two weeks for the Cyps to kick in and because M1T seems to stay in the body and active for about a week after dosing stops. I base that last statement on my own as well as severals other peoples reports of continued strength increases in the first week of PCT following M1T. Granted thats strictly anecdotal evidence.
Plus I'm not sure that dose of 4OHT is large enough to offset M1T sides. Did I mention I HATE M1T sides.
10-06-2004, 02:20 PM
Decided to do a couple of things different this cycle. I mixed two weeks worth of all three cyps in a sealed sterile vial prior to dosing. The injections were completly painless. The only problem with doing it this way is that you loose the ability to adjust your dosage on the fly, but I know from previous experience that these numbers work for me. Also in the past I have never injected into the muscle group I intended to exercise. Last night I injected bi's and pecs about an hour before going to the gym. Today there is none of the usual post shot soreness that I'm aware of.
10-08-2004, 04:50 PM
Had a pretty good work out last night (Legs..ugh) in spite of having a real nice case of M1T flu. 5mg a day doesn't usually have that effect, however I've been taking the M1T with grapefruit juice to evaluate GF's effects. I think I'll categorize that under the heading "Things not to do" right along with pissing on an electric fence.
Had real fun injecting last night, hit a nerve 3 times in a row on the left quad...then twice on the right glute, WTF over! Of course by that time I was so pissed off there was no way in hell I was gonna give up. Persistence finally paid off.
Weight is up about 2 pounds so far. Gotta be the M1T / 4OHT combo. The 4OHT seems to be doing a good job of keeping the Dragon Ass Syndrome at bay. I'm not expecting any effects from the cyps till about the end of next week.
10-08-2004, 07:48 PM
I cant even inject into my left quad, I dont know if it has more nerve endings in it or what, but I have tried it 7 times, and every single time have hit a nerve, so I said screw that. I just use both glutes, both shoulders and my right quad. Good luck with the rest of your cycle!! I am interested to see how the 5aa cyp works out for you, I really want to make some to get the good strength gains it offers.
10-10-2004, 05:52 PM
Results so far are encouraging. Weight still up 2lbs and BF% down to 13%. Discontinued M1T. No changes otherwise. One small problem tho, I changed my leg routines (squat, hack squat, leg lifts, leg curls, standing calf raisesm etc.) from 2 to 3 sets of 8 to one or two sets of 16 to 20 after warmup. My legs are soo friggin sore today I can hardly walk and the outside tendon on my right knee (about 6 inches below injection site) is swollen. I'm using ice 15 on 15 off twice about every 3 to 4 hours but this may take longer than I would like to heal. Which SUCKS!
Besides interfering with my weight training schedule, I'm liable to get my ass kicked in martial class (Taekwondo & Krav Maga). Plus I'm currently training for my next level black belt and am supposed to test in December.
This is the first time in lifting off and on in 23 years the last 4 years solid, that I have injured myself. I can't believe this ****.
OK - whimpering ***** mode off now. I just had to get that out of my system. I'm fine now really, no problems see (whilst counting 9mm shells... 13, 14, 15 and one in the clip)
Anybody got a spare knee I can borrow? PM me and maybe when can meet? Where's my scapel and ice damn it.
10-13-2004, 11:20 AM
9 days into the cycle. Workout went very well last night. The Cyps are just starting to become effective. Pumps are increasing, not painfull yet, but that will come later. Yeah Baby!
Strength is beginning to increase. I'll be increasing reps or sets until I feel comfortable before increasing weight to help avoid injury as it will be easy at my age to injure a tendon that has not caught up the CNS increases.
Weight is up another pound. Not sure about BF% as I only have access to digital calipers on the weekend.
10-16-2004, 09:21 PM
God must be mad at me. Barely into my cycle and I injure my knee. Which is much better now by the way. Then I started running a fever last Thursday. Went to the Doc to find out what the hell was going on and found out I had a kidney infection. Blood work came back good. One week of M1T wasn't enough to screw up my HDL. Of course white cell count was a little high. Strangely enough the my iron was extremely low. I think I read some where that high amount of calcium can adversly effect iron. I normally drink about 64 ounces of skim milk a day. Anybody ever heard anything like that?
Oh well, time to eat some liver... yum! Now for the real bad news. The anti-biotics kicked my ass as well as my appetite so.... now I'm down four and a half ****ing pounds. ****! I'm drinking lots of water and just trying to recover this weekend.
10-19-2004, 09:47 AM
Wow, antibiotics are good ****! I feel a ton better this week and I'm as amped as hell to get back to the gym tomorrow. Gonna try and start working quads back into the leg routine. I'll just take it easy to start with and see how it goes. I have definetly noticed a mellowing effect from the HCG which is nice. I was starting to get just a little on the aggressive side last week, although that may have just been from frustration. I'm not about to give up on this cycle. I'll give up when they put me in a box in the ground, until then lead, follow or get the hell out of my way.
10-20-2004, 02:32 PM
Work out went great last night, bench press is up 270 for 6 and barbell curls is up to 110 for 8 reps. I know kinda pathetic but I've always had small arms. Recovery is really starting to improve. I don't even feel like I worked out last night. God I do soo love cycles.
10-20-2004, 04:32 PM
Good log. Definitely entertaining to read through. I am thinking of running a similar cycle sometime in the spring or summer of next year. A couple of clarifying questions if you don't mind...
So you find that the cypionate esters of 1-T and 4AD kick in at around the 2 week mark, the 1-Test specifically taking no more time to kick in than it would applied transdermally? I assume the 4AD takes closer to 2 weeks to kick in fully since it is just released slower and more consistently to the bloodstream. I notice effects of 4AD trans immediately and always balloon up.
Also, can you distinguish when you are noticing the positive effects of 5AA, i.e. the aggression, hardness, focus etc and especially strength gains. It seems like it would be tough to tell at day 9-14 if the strength gains were not coming mainly from the M1T. Everything is building up all at once more or less.
That was fairly tenacious jabbing yourself 7 times. Painful as well. I am really curious as you cycle progresses how much better the injectables are going to be than going with something like 1-T trans, 4AD trans and high dose M5AA or M-DHT or 3AA trans. You seem to know fairly well how your body reacts to the compounds you are running and what to expect. Keep up the good work and no more injuries!
10-22-2004, 01:53 PM
Let me clarify my earlier statement. At the end of two weeks/beginning of week three the blood serum levels are just beginning to rise high enough to be felt. The half life of cyps are 14 days, it still take approx. four weeks for the Cypionates to "kick-in" ie reach maximum blood saturation based on dosage. The 1-test and 4AD are released at approx the same rate. The transdermal cycles I've done in the past kick-in waaay sooner than a cyp cycle will. There is no comparison on that point. Between the 4OHT transdermal and the 100 mg of 6-OXO I'm taking bloat is completly non-existent.
Any strength gains noticed in the first two weeks of this cycle will be solely from the M1T. I'm currently at the end of week three and can say for sure that the strength gains are coming from the 1-Test and 5AA cyps. On a side note if I absolutely had to choose between 5AA Cyp and M5AA on strength gains/ focus alone with no consideration of side effects I would have to go with the M5AA. Dosing with it is time dependant and you can use it exactely when you need it. The 5AA Cyp stays with you 24/7. At high doses you will experience an elevated body temperature and night sweats. I say that from first hand experience when I experimented with it at 900 mg a week. If you remember my earlier statement regarding the electric fence... well the same applies. But the Cyp is easy on the liver. Always a concern when theres a bottle of M1T lying around.
Workout went great again last night. Weighted dips are up to 320lbs for 8 and preacher curls with curl bar are up to 90lbs for 8 and lat pull downs are now at 180lbs for 8 with a 3 second hold at the bottom. Shrugs also went up to 410 for 8 with a two second squeeze at the top. Again no soreness today just that good feeling you get after a workout. Did I mention I love cycles.
10-22-2004, 03:38 PM
10-24-2004, 07:23 PM
Another great workout in the bag. Pumps are really starting to come up nicely. Was able to finish my work out but just barely. Hell I could barely brush my teeth when I got home from the gym. Strength is still increasing. Lying barbell tricep presses are up to 100lbs for 8. Chest is up to 47 inches and waist is still holding at 34, arms are holding at 16.5 inches. Bodyfat hovering around 11%. I'm still trying to recover the weight I lost due to the kidney infection, but it appears most of that weight was BF. Thank god it happened while I was on cycle or some of it would surely have been LBM. No sign of any problems related to the cycle. The 4OHT and 6-OXO continue to keep bloat away and recovery continues to improve. My only real complaint right now applies to the power-gel the 4OHT is suspended in. The DMSO dries the **** out of my skin. I NEVER had that problem with BDC's T-gel which used DMFA. Can't say as I like the smell either but that might be the 4OHT that stinks.
10-29-2004, 03:51 AM
Update. Strength continues to increase in various lifts. Arm size appears to be finally increasing. I'm dropping the 6-OXO as I noticed some joint pain while lifting recently. Primarily in the elbows. A little dry is ok, but I think the 6-OXO was too much of a good thing in conjunction with the 4-OHT and 5AA. I think I'll add a little glucosamine and MSM to the supplementation program as well.
11-01-2004, 12:01 AM
Strength still going up. Narrow grip bench press is up from 230 to 250. Seems to be easier on the elbows than wide grip for some reason. Still working legs back into the routine slowly, started leg press today at 540 lbs. Knee feels ok now, we'll see how it is tomorrow. With the way the 4OHT is keeping bloat down by working as an anti-e I'm thinking about upping the 4AD to 2300 mg a week.
11-01-2004, 01:46 PM
11-02-2004, 12:21 PM
Yeah staying pretty lean on this cycle so far thats why I'm upping the 4AD to 2300 mg/week, dropping the 4OHT to 250 mg/week and keeping the 1-Test and 5AA where they were. The 4OHT at 1200 mg a week trandermal or 400 mg actual absorbed plus the 5AA cyp was keeping me too dry in my opinion as it seemed to be hindering my gains. I've had a great deal of body recomposition so far this cycle and excellent strength gains, but I'm just now getting back to 190 lbs following the knee injury and kidney infection. I believe the antibiotics were interfering with my gains as well. I was taking cipro and telkesis if I recall correctly. I do know that some antibiotics interfere with gains more than others. Body fat is still around 11% - 12%. Typically I run around 15 to 17 percent while on a bulking cycle then drop to about 13 to 14 percent. The way this cycle was originally planned it would be a great lbm cycle or could even be used as a cutting cycle running maintenance calories.
Last edited by uridium245; 11-02-2004 at 03:28 PM.
11-03-2004, 11:44 AM
Had a great workout last night. Elbow pain was almost non-existent, MSM plus glucosamine seems to work everytime. I've decided to keep mid grip bench press at 270 and just increase reps for a while until the elbow pain is completly gone. Shrugs are up to 410 lbs for 2 sets of 8 reps. Pumps are starting to get painfull. Skin gets so tight it feels like its gonna rip and veins are popping out all over the place. I swear my biceps looked like a friggin road map while doing curls last night. Pumps are also staying longer, its been 12 hours since I was at the gym and my arms, chest and shoulders are still pumped. Made a few changes to my bicep routine last week that seem to be stimulating more growth. I typically follow a combination MaxOT/Dogcrap type work out, heavy weights two to three sets depending on wether its a compound movement or not and 6 to 8 reps. Strength has been what I have been most interested in to this point as too much bulk interferes with my martial arts. I've chage the routine by starting with 110 lb curl bar for 8 reps followed by 2 sets of bumbell curls 55 lbs for 8 reps, followed by 45 lbs for 12 reps and finally 40 lbs to failure. Another exercise (BP, flys, cable press etc..) is done between the first 3 exercise but not the last two. I typically alternate exercises bicep/tricep/bicep/chest/tricep etc. I've put a 1/4 inch on the old mini-guns in one week. I have no idea what the hell you would call this routine, but it seems to be working.
11-07-2004, 10:31 PM
Five weeks in and everthing seems to running smoothly. Strength continues to show steady increases. Body recomp has been fantastic so far. I'm getting alot of compliments plus it seems everywhere I go the ladies just stare... damn I love that. Weighed in at 191 (yeah now were making progress), BF holding solid at 11%, arms are just a red c@nt hair under 17 inches cold. I have no clue what they are after a workout cause I'm not sure I could reach my other arm across with a tape measure.
Start of cycle
190 lbs 15% BF
161.5 lbs LBM
28.5 lbd FAT
5 Week mark
191 lbs 11% BF
170 lbs LBM
21 lbs FAT
So unless my math is AFU I'm half way into this cycle not including PCT and I've gained 8.5 lbs of lbm AND lost 7.5 lbs of fat. Not to shabby so far considering the problems early on. Did I mention "Damn I love cycles".
I've stayed away from cell volumizers and NO2 boosters so far to evaluate this particular combo and I gotta say I have liked it so far. I will now be adding Citrulline Malate 3 grams a day, AAKG 5 grams a day and CEE HCL 2 grams a day to see how far a medium dose PH stack can be pushed. Hope I can still wipe my butt after going to gym. If not I guess I could always buy a bidet. Yeah, there's nothing quite like pointing a fire hose at your arse.
11-08-2004, 01:43 AM
Those must be the cheap kindOriginally Posted by uridium245
Sounds like the cycle is rolling along just fine. Ask one of the women staring to do it for you =DI have no clue what they are after a workout cause I'm not sure I could reach my other arm across with a tape measure.
On a more serious note, you mentioned not wanting to add too much bulk so as not to interfere with martial arts training. In general what types of lifts etc. have given you the most carryover to your training in martial arts?
I have never trained martial arts and am very uncoordinated in general. A lot of the guys I knew in college that trained martial arts were incredibly powerful and particularly fast. That combo was bound to help them move more iron and it usually did. Do you find that doing speed agility training in martial arts carry's over well to lifting. Or does it seem to work better to do direct speed work (a la dynamic effort method of westside) specifically in the movements you train. Just curious as to your take on it.
Nice results all around so far.
11-08-2004, 05:09 PM
I typically bulk twice a year and use a MaxOT/Dog Crap HIT type of training routine to stimulate maximum muscle fibre recruitment / CNS conditioning. I then use the following routine for two months followed by a month of HIT.
Take 70 % of your 10 rep single set max and perform the following. Perform 1 lift pause 1 second, perform 2 lifts pause 2 seconds etc... to 10 reps. This is a total of 54 lifts, these should be performed as explosively as possible with no more than a 3 second negative. The idea is to keep or increase explosive power and increase conditioning (try it you'll see what I mean) without stimulating too much muscle growth thru micro tearing.
In martial arts speed and accuracy are much more important that raw power for multiple reasons. #1 Speed, what can't be seen can not be defended against (try sparing againt a fifth degree black belt and you'll also see what I mean). #2 Speed also, this one is basic physics. Power=mass x velocity. Increase the velocity of a punch or kick and it will carry considerably more power. However if you increase mass too much velocity will suffer, resulting in less power. #3 Accuracy, If you can't connect with your target, power is irrelevant. Try punching someone square in the nose and miss 3 inches high. You will hit square in the middle of the forehead where bone thickness is at its greatest. This will just piss off your opponent and hurt your hand like a bitch.
I have found that after carrying the additional bulk around for a couple of months and then shaving off the excess results in phenominal increases in explosive speed. I can routinely kick faster than most of my opponents can punch. This usually frustrates the hell out of them, throws their game off, resulting in me wiping the floor with their asses.
As far as types of lifts that directly carry over to martial arts. Anything which is a compound movement will carry over to some extent as the is no such thing as an ISO knifehand strike. As far as being uncoordinated goes Cardinal. EVERYONE I have ever seen start martial arts training looked uncoordinated and felt like an idiot their first day and felt that everyone was watching them. Plus they had very limited flexibility with the possible exception of a few young ladies I know that started recently These all disappear over time.
The only time raw power ever comes into the equation is if we are doing ground fighting which borrows alot from grappling, Jiu Jitsu and Hapkido. If this happens in a real fight its because you ****ed up somewhere or got blindsided.
Sorry, didn't mean to write a friggin book.
11-09-2004, 01:15 AM
Thanks for taking the time to write all that out! Much appreciated. I knew you would have an interesting take for how to develop speed and explosiveness. Definitely learned a lot from reading your post.
I am going to have to give that technique for explosive power and conditioning a try! Running some numbers, I figured I would end up working with about 55% give or take of a 1RM. Sounds about right for advanced speedwork.
A minor digression. You have run across an old physics geek here. I think your point #2 would work better like this. Power = Force*Velocity. Momentum = Mass*Velocity.
Speed is more helpful than mass when it comes to generating power. But more mass does mean more power given same velocity. Best way to show 'why' more mass tend to slow max velocity is to look at principle of inertia and realize that anytime you must change direction, you always undergo an acceleration. And more mass makes this tough.
Power is just work done per unit time. Energy or work scales as .5*mass*velocity^2. So when doing something like breaking a board with your hand you can see that both mass and velocity contribute to the power, but velocity much more so (one reason why small girl can break board easy as big bodybuilder, she moves hand faster).
Sorry for the phsyics jibberish. Will remove if requested. It is rare that I get to apply a little of what I spent so much money getting in college =D
11-09-2004, 02:50 AM
Hey uridium, what martial arts do you train in? And for how long if you dont mind me asking
Am curious how much of a difference you notice using the explosive training techniques you described.
Fellow martial artist.. i train mixed martial arts.. submission wrestling, MT, boxing..
cheers and great log
11-09-2004, 02:14 PM
Thanks for the correction Cardinal. I used to be a geek myself. What the hell am I saying? I'm still a geek. It used to be physics/chemistry 15 - 20 years ago now its computers. The times change but I guess we never really do.
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