5AA,1-Test,4AD Cyp +4OHT
- 11-09-2004, 02:51 PM
I've dabbled in various martial arts off and on for about 15 years but only really got serious about 3 years ago. Now I train in Taekwondo and Krav Maga. I am currently studying to become a certified instructor in TKD which has a few extra benifits over the standard trainging as we regularly attend what they term leadership seminars, but are primarily instruction in advanced TKD techniques mixed with instruction from other martial arts. Typically Akido, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
, Kung Fu, Hapkido, Judo, Karate, etc... TKD is sometimes called a flying martial arts as it focuses alot on flying kicks. It stresses the forms, weapons, philosophy and tradition, but continues to change and evolve.
Krav Maga is a hand to hand combat style training that was invented for and is used by the Israelie military. It is a very well rounded system that focuses on striking and ground fighting and is considered a hard style of martial arts. It is probably the best martial art training you can get for street use. (said while putting on an asbestos suit). It does not focus on forms/katas, philosophy or tradition. It's about doing the most amount of damage to your opponent in the least amount of time. It isn't pretty, but it works, just ask Bas Rutten 3 time UFC Champion. It also goes into great detail in defeating opponents that are armed. Which probably explains why so many police forces are now begining to mandate training in Krav Maga.
After switching to my speed style training I usually see a huge difference in my speed and I'm able to go at full throttle much longer. While bulking I feel like such a puss cause 10 minutes into it and I'm sucking wind and sweating like a pig.
- 11-09-2004, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the feedback, i think i might try your speed training.. i can always use more gas.
Krav Maga is supposed to be pretty hardcore.. i have heard lots of good things about it in reference to street defence.
11-12-2004, 10:37 PM
Well, I'm about to break one of my own cardinal rules. I have always advocated and have personally used the most aggressive compounds at the beginning of a cycle. However, starting next week I'm going to break my own rule by adding 100 mg a day of M1,4ADD to the final 4 weeks of my cycle. Blasphemy you say... maybe. My reasons are as follow:
1. This will be my last legal cycle and as such will probably be my last.
2. This cycle has produced only dry gains with zero water retention.
3. I still have a small amount of annoying elbow pain that I believe is being caused by the 1 Test dose being close to a gram a week. I would like to see if the water retention caused by this product will help with lubrication of the joints.
4. Just in case its not my last cycle I'd like to evaluate how I respond to D-Bol.
5. Gains seem to be slowing down. But I'm eating all I can force down. 1-Test has never been good for my appetite, but I hear M1,4ADD/D-Bol increases appetite.
Ok you can all drag out the leg irons and flay the barbarian followed by a nice cozy burning at the steak (sic... see I'm getting hungry already). Whose bringing the marshmellows and beer? Then we'll top off the evening with a good old fashioned lynching. Sounds like fun. Oh, were talking about me right. Never mind what I just said... the last part anyways.
11-12-2004, 10:49 PM
Good call! M1,4 is my new favorite compound......but youre right about the wet thing, its the wettest thing I've ever been on. The 5aa cyp should dry out the gains tho. I'm loving 150mg ED, but 100mg should do the trick too. My hunger and thirst are through the roof. Good luck!Originally Posted by uridium245
11-19-2004, 11:09 PM
Well been on the Citrulline Malate,AAKG & CEE HCL for a 10 days and the M1,4ADD for 5 days. Strength and indurance have both increased. Arms are finally 17" cold. The CEE and M1,4ADD have FINALLY eliminated the last of my elbow pain. Hot Damn! Weight is up about another 2 pounds but I don't really see much of any bloating, calipers say BF is the same. Veins are still popping out all over the place while working out and the six pack hasn't left town yet. I'm definetly enjoying the pumps as there now getting to the point where I have had to cut my workout short.
The only downside to the CM and AAKG that I have noticed is when doing heavy lifts I turn beet red. Ah the wonders of vasodialation. I have also noticed a need for more sleep at these levels of androgens. I have heard that usually happens, but I've never been on this much **** at one time before.
Tomorrow will be leg day woopee!
11-24-2004, 07:16 AM
Hopefully you rspond to M1,4ADD. And i think its it to help your elbow rather than CEE
I would use it as 2-weeks kickstarter for a cycle in place of M1T, but i may opt for Superdrol...
I'm on CM and CEE myself and the red face is happening to me as well during heavy efforts: but who cares?
Are you taking CM both morning and bedtime (at least 3g+3g)? When i dont forget the night dose (rare), i wake up less tired
11-24-2004, 04:54 PM
No I've been taking the CM & CEE about 3 hours before my workouts. I usually don't get to the gym until about 8 pm. I know it's kinda late but I'm a bit of night owl and there are less people at the gym. I definately like the CEE MUCH better than straight creatine. I have had zero gastro problems.
I may try that second dose of CM before bed and see if it helps. My intensity level is soo high at the gym that I'm usually wasted the next day and really dont want to get up.
Strangely enough I'm starting to look forward to this cycle being over as I am getting real tired of injecting 14.4 cc's a week. It's almost enough to send someone over to the dark side. (Said in Yoda's voice) You must be strong with the force and resist or fall into temptation you will.
11-24-2004, 05:50 PM
Then CM first thing in the morning would help. Take 3-4g, it helps me a lot starting th day. I would waive the night dose but not the morning one.Originally Posted by uridium245
11-24-2004, 11:06 PM
Well, I had a feeling it might happen after adding the M1,4ADD to the already extensive list of **** I'm taking on this cycle. What might IT be your asking... Gyno, Bitch Tits, Gozanga, Knockers. I noticed a small lump a little smaller than a pea under the right nipple that was sore. Must have been the methyl estadiol that M1,4ADD/DBOL converts to, combined with the lowered dose of 4OHT and discontinuation of 6OXO. I wanted to retain more water to help with joint pain and it worked. I guess I kinda knew cutting back on the anti-e's could result in this which is why I've been checking the nipples every other day. Not to worry though, I've plenty of Nolva on hand and will be increasing the 4OHT and 6OXO dose back to where it was. It should be gone inside a week. I will continue to keep the 4OHT and 6OXO at their new levels however for the duration of this cycle.
11-25-2004, 07:52 PM
Hit the gym for leg day. I wan't to sure how legs would go today as I injected quads on Tuesday and the right one was pretty damn sore. It went really well, blew past my previous presonal record for leg press by 20 lbs. 630's not much but form was perfect. Leg curls went up another 10 lbs also. Now I'm really looking forward to ham, deviled eggs, crannberry sauce, etc...
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
11-27-2004, 04:44 PM
Today was upper body. Went really well again, just about every lift went up another 10lbs. It took a while but I'm starting to see a little bit of acne breakout on my forehead. My skins been oily for a while now thanks to the 5AA Cyp. I'm surprised the acne took this long to show up. Could also be the Nolva. I usually breakout during PCT which always consists of Nolva. On another good note the mild gyno has disappeared already (Big sigh of relief!)
Started taking 1500mg nettle root and 1500mg of vitex a day starting yesterday. The nettle root is supposed to bind to the SHBG enzyme resulting in more free test circulating. I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not I can tell a difference.
One a side note, has anybody else ever noticed that it takes forever to bust a nut while on Nolva. It happens to me everytime. Sometimes thats a good thing, but damn I get enough cardio as is. I don't need that extra 45 minutes while bulking.
12-01-2004, 12:15 AM
Well, I don't know if it was the nettle root and vitex or placebo effect. But I had my best workout ever tonight. Went up 10 lbs on seated cable rows to 140 for 8 with a three second hold, incline fly also went up 10 lbs to 170 for 8. Then to top it off my personal record for mid grip bench press went up to 280 for 8. The first sent was clean but the 8th rep on the second set was sloppy.
Intensity overall was way up. I was so burned out afterwards I was shaking all the way home. A bouble dose of whey and some cottage chesse fixed that though. Wish I had included these supplements at the beginning of my cycle. I've also noticed an increase in libedo, like I really friggin needed that. A cute skirt walks by... boner, an ugly skirt walks by... boner, the wind blows... boner.
I gotta feeling I'm gonna be sore as **** tomorrow. Calgon take me away!
12-09-2004, 10:41 AM
Well today is the last day of this cycle. Overall I've been very pleased. I did not manage to bulk as much as I had planned, but then again 193 lbs at 5'6" 11% BF is seriously effecting my flexibility and speed. Now it's PCT time woopee!
I'll be switching back to my speed routine for the next 30 days. So we will see how much weight I keep. I had intended to run this PCT with IGF but I picked a bad time of year for it due to the expense involved. I'd rather spend that money on my daughter for Christmas. Oh well, maybe next time. One nice thing about leaving out the IGF is I'll be able to see exactly how effective the Swale HCG protocol is for recovery without out any other compounds besides Nolva involved.
12-09-2004, 11:37 AM
If your measurements are on, then there's nothing too bad about trading in 7.5 pounds of fat for 10.5 pounds of lean mass.
Start - 190 @15%BF = 161.5 LBM + 28.5 fat
End - 193 @11%BF = 172 LBM + 21 fat.
12-10-2004, 11:18 PM
I appreciate the comment. I know I should be happy with the results. I was just hoping for a little better. I guess most of us are never truly 100% satisfied with our physique or conditioning. Maybe thats why we keep at.... Nah I'm just a vain bastard myself haha.
I'll try and post some after pics this weekend. Maybe then I'll be able to see the difference. Everyone I know has been commenting on the changes, but looking in the mirror everyday its hard to see them.
12-12-2004, 10:05 PM
Well I promised some updated photos... so here they are. They were taken 11 hours after my workout. My apologies for the piss poor quality. Maybe some day I'll get a camera that's worth a ****.
On another note today was the first time I have switched to my speed routine while androgens were still in the blood stream. Big mistake, I got so pumped I didn't get halfway through my routine and had to call it quits. The stretching at the end was murder. I usually like to hold my stretches for 60 seconds but not today. I got to 30 seconds and said **** this ****.
12-13-2004, 09:45 AM
Very impressive! Good work. Sorry but you can't hide a good physique and good results from a cycle with a ****ty camera!
12-21-2004, 11:33 AM
Update on PCT
Wow, 10 days into PCT and all I can say is "Holy ****!" This has been the smoothest PCT I've ever had. If Swale wasn't a guy I'd find him and give a great big wet kiss. I will NEVER cycle again without using the Swale HCG protocol! I've kept all the weight and strength so far. My mood has been easy going and level. The family jewels seem to be working pretty good. Sex drive and stamina are still excellent. The nettle root and vitex at 1.5 grams each a day may have something to do with it as well.
I can only imagine what this PCT would have been like with Long R3IGF-1. Maybe next time.
12-21-2004, 12:45 PM
Wow, glad to hear PCT is going so well! You look much thicker and leaner in the new photos than the one you posted in the beginning of the cycle. Have you lost any weight in your first 10 days of PCT?
12-22-2004, 01:32 AM
I lost one pound on day 3 of PCT then gained it back on day 7 or 8. But my weight fluctuates like that sometimes if I dont drink enough water or eat to much salt etc... By the way Rob, big thumbs ups on your current cycle. Pretty impressive gains so far!
On another note, I tested this past Saturday to go from a regular blackbelt to a 1st degree blackbelt. The testing took 3 hours and 10 min. I just KNEW I was gonna be one sore ass sorry SOB for the next couple of days. But the Citrulline Malate seems to really do an awesome job of removing amonia and lactic acid buildup. At the end alot of people looked like they were ready to drop or keel over dead, but I felt like I could have gone another hour with little problem. I was a little stiff Sunday morning for about 4 hours but no soreness ever showed up. Where was this stuff when I played football in high school or how about Marine Corp boot camp? I really could have used the **** then.
12-22-2004, 08:42 AM
01-09-2005, 11:30 AM
Well, PCT is now done. I dreaded getting on the scales and dragging out the calipers after the holiday season. I kept saying to myself "I tried to be good...I really did"
Final starts are weight: 192 lbs, body fat: 9.7% Whoopee! I been using my speed routine through out PCT until this last week. I modified my speed training by performing one heavy set for 8 reps followed by a speed set to evaluate strength. I'm happy to say I have not lost any strength post cycle. Bench press and EZ curls actually went up 10 lbs.
All in all I'd have to say this cycle was a mixed bag of results. Good body recomp, decent strength increases with very few sides other than the little gyno flare up. I also learned some very important things: CEE, CM, nettle root, and vitex all get a thumbs up. Swales HCG protocol combined with the above gets a big thumbs up, way up.
01-09-2005, 01:58 PM
Start cycle - 190 @15%BF = 161.5 LBM + 28.5 fat
End cycle -- 193 @11%BF = 172 LBM + 21 fat.
End PCT ---- 192 @9.7%BF = 173.4LBM + 18.6fat
Start to finish, about 100 days,
+12 LBM - 10 fat. +7.5% LBM, -5%BF.
Very impressive recomp!
If you have the spare time, maybe tally up how much this cycle cost you. I have a curiousity about such things, and it could help other people make a few decisions.
Lastly, if you have any way of discriminating, I would like to hear your evaluation of the role of each component in your cycle - which effects do you attribute to which substances, and if you knew what you knew now before this past cycle would you have done anything differently to save money or side effects or whatever?
01-09-2005, 04:07 PM
Total cost for this cycle was $449.72. That includes ancilliarys, pins, etc... everything except the M1T which I had on hand already. Real gear would have been cheaper I know, but I wanted to know how effective PH's could really be for me before they dissappear. Plus I wanted to have a basis for comparison should I ever travel the darker road.
I would evaluate each of the compounds as follows:
4AD Cyp - I actually prefered better as a transdermal. The amount of ml's you have to inject is a pain the ass, but water retention is slower to develop in the cyp.
1-Test Cyp - I also prefer as a transdermal. It is all but impossible for me to get truly pain free injections with this stuff no matter what I mix it with. Some pain would always show up a day later. I believe the dose being close to 1 gram a week was what caused the majority of my joint pain. It is long gone and shows no signs of returning.
4OHT - Too expensive for the gains it produced, but when you factor in it anti-e qualities a very nice compound. I also noticed a marked increase in libido shortly after application.
5AA Cyp - Was good at boosting strength and aggression, but I like M5AA better as it can be taken just before working out. 5AA Cyps effects are with you ALL day.
M1,4ADD - Really liked this stuff for a bulking compound. Water retention was not a factor at 100 mg a day with 4OHT and the 5AA keeping me dry. After using this for a week or so I threw that last bottle of M1T away.
HCG - Its the **** for keeping suppression at bay. I'll never cycle without it again.
If I were to redo this cycle it would be as follows:
10 week cycle 1200 mg 4OHT Transdermal, 500 mg 5AA Cyp, 700 mg 1-Test Cyp and 2300 mg 4AD Cyp with HCG throughout and kickstarted with 150 mg M1,4ADD
P = Prohormones
H = 250iu HCG twice a week
N = Nolva dosed at 40/40/30/20
M = 150 mg M1,4ADD split in 3 doses.
1 - P, M
2 - P, M, H
3 - P, M, H
4 - P, M, H
5 - P, H
6 - P, H
7 - P, H
8 - P, H
9 - P, H
10 - P, H
1 - N, H
2 - N
3 - N
4 - N
I would also definitely include CEE, CM, Nettle Root and Vitex at the begining of the cycle.
01-09-2005, 04:12 PM
01-09-2005, 09:36 PM
But on second thought Strateg0s. If I were to redo this cycle in an alternate universe it also might look like this.
10 weeks 600mg Test E or Test Cyp, 400mg EQ (Boldenone) jumpstarted with 30mg ED of DBOL.
A = Test/EQ
D = 30mg DBOL split in 3 doses.
H = 250iu HCG twice a week
N = Nolva dosed at 40/40/30/20
1 - A, D
2 - A, D, H
3 - A, D, H
4 - A, D, H
5 - A, H
6 - A, H
7 - A, H
8 - A, H
9 - A, H
10 - A, H
1 - N, H
2 - N
3 - N
4 - N
Might also throw some Tren in there the last 4 - 6 weeks at 50 to 75mg ED. Total cost about $320.00 less the Tren. Speaking strictly theoretically of course.
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