First Cycle - Input appreciated!

[Harry Seaward]

Hey guys - I've been training naturally for about 16 years now, and now that I'm finally 30 I figured I'd see what it's like to try a cycle and take it to the next level! I definitely know my fair share about bodybuilding and nutrition, but admittedly all I know about anabolics is from research on the internet, primarily from the past couple months as I started to seriously think about doing a cycle.

I am 5'10", 195 lbs, last time somebody measured my body fat was when I was about 20 and I think it was < 7% then, I hope less now but who knows.

Here is my plan:

Boldenone: 250ml / wk (weeks 1 - 10)

Mesterolone: 50 mg / day (weeks 2 - 11)

Winstrol: 20 mg / day (weeks 4 - 11 or maybe a couple weeks less like 4-10 or 5-11)

Nolvadex: 10-20 mg / day (weeks 11 - 13)

Clomid: 50 - 100 mg / day (weeks 12 - 13)

Any input would be appreciated. My rationale for this cycle is that I am not trying to get super huge, but want to add some quality lean muscle, hopefully without acne or other side effects. I figured to throw in Mesterolone to the mix, which by itself I know doesn't do much but I think can add something w out toxicity acne etc., and winstrol to help with cutting and also a little extra anabolic effect.

I'm sure a lot of guys on this forum are way more built / ripped etc. than I am, but people have always thought I was on steroids since I was 19 or so just from natural bodybuilding, so I figured if I actually DO them, even a not-too-strong cycle has gotta do something.

Here are a few questions:

(1) Will this be effective? Particularly, is 250 mg / week too little equipoise to see any gains, even with the added mesterolone and winny?

(2) Does it make more sense to substitute winny with D-bol? I've heard bad things about winny i.e. joint pain, but maybe some glucosamine etc. will help with that, and I know it's better in terms of cutting / low water retention vs. D-bol.

(3) Can I do the orals M-F only or do I have to do them during the weekend? I feel like M-F I'll still see effects and it might be better on my liver.

(4) What's the deal with drinking while on a cycle? I don't plan on binge drinking, but I do like to have a couple or a few glasses of vino from time to time.

(5) Does anyone have experience with side effects (or success stories) while on boldenone / equipoise? Is there a better base for the cycle you would recommend? I don't want to do test or anything that messes too much with HPTA function, gives acne, etc.

Thank you very much in advance! This looks like a great community and I'm looking forward to talking with some of you. Hopefully in the future I can be a help to others in this forum.

-HC

 

[ManBeast]

Ummm... wow... where to start...

1) You'll probably hate the cycle as there is no test base.

2) Winny is a powerful and harsh substance. Dbol is milder, but causes more bloat and is good for bulking.

3) Stable blood levels are better than fluctuating in terms of preventing sides like acne.

4) Drinking while on a methylated compound like winny or dbol is incredibly careless and not a very good idea at all. A glass or two of wine while on a cycle without methylated compounds is not going to ruin the cycle, but I can't condone any extra stress on your liver when using a methylated compound.

5) 250mg of EQ would barely give any effects whatsoever, even with the other compounds added in. I honestly think you'd be better off with a plain jane test cylcle, kickstarted with some dbol, with an AI used throughout to control estrogen, followed by a solid PCT. I'd leave the dbol out if you can't hold off on drinking for the 4-6 weeks you'd run the dbol.

Also, your PCT is way too short.

Not to sound like an ass, but where did you get the research information that lead you to think a cycle without a test base would be good?

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Thanks man I appreciate the help, and don't worry you don't sound like an ass I think it's very cool you're taking the time to help me.

I've been looking at a bunch of sites like this for research and just plain googling. I've definitely seen the consensus is test is a good first-cycle to do or even that it's always best to use it as a base, but I'm just scared of the side effects such as acne, hpta stuff, water retention, etc. I was thinking about equipoise / boldenone bc supposedly it has less side effects i.e. water retention, aromatization, acne, hpta function.

I can definitely avoid drinking for 4-6 weeks I was just curious, definitely won't drink while on an oral. I guess I have a few new questions in light of your info:

(1) Is deca a good option to use as a base (or at least better than boldenone) maybe with winny or something?

(2) Why will not having a test base mean I'll 'hate' the cycle? Does that mean I'll have bad effects or just a lack of them?

(3) If I use test, what should I use as an AI? Will this help with side effects other than gyno and bloating (such as acne)?

(4) I don't quite understand your #3 (stable blood levels are better at preventing sides); what's the best way to maintain stable blood levels?

(5) Any other info you might offer to a first-timer. I think I might try plain d-bol first for about 3-4 weeks starting in March, which is why I've really been trying to do my research now. Remember, I don't mind if I don't get like Schwarzenegger big, I just want to gain a good 5 or 10 pounds of solid muscle (and definitely not too much water weight). I've basically been plateauing for about 8 years, and maybe even sliding down slightly actually now that I'm a little older...thanks again for the help brother!!! Sorry I now it's a lot to ask and I sound like a dumbass, but we all gotta learn somehow...

 

[Harry Seaward]

Oh I see I think you were referring to stable blood levels i.e. taking 7 days per week as opposed to M-F

 

[ManBeast]

1) Test is the best for any cycle (excepting some pro bodybuilders pre-contest) as your body runs on test, and any exogenous hormone will shut it down, resulting in loss of libido and other hideious side effects.

2) Any hormone will shut down the HPTA and can cause acne etc.

3) I like to reccomend arimidex or aromasin over letrozole, but any of the three will work.

5) You actually might be able to get your goals easier without any injectible compounds or anything. Consider Helladrol for 6 weeks with some forma stanzol thrown in for the duration and during PCT. Any decent injectible cycle will put a good 10-20 pounds on someone if its run for long enough for the esters to release. Dylan has an *incredible* log about Helladrol. I really think it will fit your needs (and is legal to acquire to boot) a lot better than the options you've found so far. The only major tradeoff is that it will require solid cycle support throughout (although with an oral to kickstart like dbol, you should be using a support as well).

Just my $0.03

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Wow thanks for the fast response man, and that is MUSIC TO MY EARS that I can achieve the goals I want without injecting. I've only recently considered taking an injectable because a lot of the dogma (right or wrong) out there is that you need one. But I think with my more moderate goals in mind, this helladrol looks good, and maybe I'll do helladrol + winny or helldrol + d-bol.

Just did some research and saw where to get the h-drol and stanzol forma, I will try these out, and please do not get me wrong I am extremely grateful for your help but I'm a little skeptical because they are both legal, but I'll see for myself and will keep you posted.

I might be asking you questions about PCT in the future, but regardless once again: THANKS my friend!

 

[ManBeast]

nope, don't stack methyl with methyl, you can add in something like katanadrol, or trenevar which aren't methylated, but unless you want your liver to hate you, don't stack with dbol or winny.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Cool good lookin' out MB, I'll look into katanadrol. Already have h-drol on the way! Definitely might as well try these two first so I can still say "hey I've never taken anything illegal". At least for bodybuilding haha

 

[ManBeast]

usually takes 2 bottles of katana for a 6-8 week cycle (6 is the perfect hella run). Any of the andro series by Primordial will work as well. m1D by legal gear is also an option, and might still be on sale at nutraplanet.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

I know I'm pushing it here man, but looking down the road if I can't get the job done with h-drol...

Would this work:

250 mg / wk deca (wk 1 - 10)
50 mg /day mesterolone throughout the cycle both as an AI & to add some androgen content to the deca base (which apparently is too anabolic on its own?)
oral winny 20 mg / wk weeks 4 or 5 - 11
PCT: Clomid, Nolva, & maybe forma stanzol (possibly FS throughout or as needed)

Thanks bro, no rush but want to plan my spring / summer so your help is appreciated as always

 

[LilPsychotic]

If you're thinking about running an oral an don't want bloat/ water weight, try something other than d-Bol. And if you're really less than 7% bf naturally that's impressive.

 

[Harry Seaward]

Thanks man for the input, and thanks Who knows last time I was measured (with the pinch / ruler method) for my college hockey team it was 8%, and since back then I was more about just "getting big" I'd like to think I'm a little leaner now but who knows maybe not.

Anyhoo, any input on that cycle: 250 mg / wk deca (wk 1-10), 50 mg Proviron aka Mesterolone ED (wk 1-11 or 12), 20 mg winstrol (wk 5-11)?

Thanks again!

 

[ManBeast]

any of those will have the same HPTA effects, similar chances at acne and hairloss, as well as a general "sh*tty" feeling while on most likely due to the lack of test. not trying to be a dick, its just how it is.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Theoretically how much test (and what kind c, p, e etc.) would you recommend to add to this or substitute for deca or something?

As always, apologies for being clueless

 

[ManBeast]

A minimal base for a solid cycle would be 250mg/week and that's just for the "feel good" aspect overall, if you wanted to actually grow from the test you'd want 400mg at the least. Generally you tend to match esters. So with deca or EQ (boldenone), you'd run enan or cyp, with tren you'd run prop (or enan if you are going to run the test longer than the tren, etc.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Nice thanks, so basically I'm guessing the mesterolone that I'll be using as an AI & to keep test high (50 mg or maybe even 75 / day) wouldn't be sufficient to make me "feel ok"?

I don't want to fall into the category of people who ask questions and then don't follow the advice, so if I run a real cycle (w injectable) maybe I'll do 250 mg each of deca and test e for 10 weeks.

I think, and I hope that using winny with this would help me harden up a bit and not look like a jellyfish. I've been reading a fair share of info from nosha.biz and under the testosterones (whether e,c,p) it lists ALL of the side effects (acne, H2O retention, HBP, aromatization, DHT conversion, decrease HPTA function) as "Yes" "Severe" but under other options like deca or boldenone it says "low aromatization" "rare acne" etc.

Just wanted to give you some insight as to why a novice like me who hasn't tried a cycle yet would be scared to **** of test!

 

[ManBeast]

How can you keep test hi when the deca will shut your natural production down within a week or two?

Yeah... I'm not sure I like that site, try steroid.com but ignore the bullsh*t adds and just read the profiles on the compounds.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Cool already checking out steroid.com, I've seen it before and was COMPLETELY turned off by all the BS adds lingering around. So annoying...

Last question until the next one: What do you think about sustanon 250 / wk instead of just one kind of test with the deca? I've heard just from word on the street (from ppl who I don't think really know their stuff) that Sus has tons of sides, but sounds like you and others on the AM forum would know about this. Also reading on steroid.com it looks like it can help with gains and reducing fat pretty nicely which sounds attractive.

 

[ManBeast]

Sustanon is better injected every other day at best due to the amounts of each steroid in the blend. you can get away with 3x a week as well.

ManBeast

 

[Harry Seaward]

Checked out some info on test-p on steroid.com.

Supposedly least amt of sides and best of the tests for cutting, so this is the next rough draft of a potential cycle this summer:

Ingredients:
(1) Test-P 150 mg every 2 or 3 days, every 3rd day for the most part (I might get two-10 ML @ 150 mg / ML, so 20 x 150 injections could make it last 8 weeks (2) Deca 250 mg / ML, 10 ML total (3) Winstrol oral (4) Mesterolone / Proviron as AI (5) PCT (Not sure which to use & when but will have on hand): Clomid, Nolva, Forma Stanzol, HCG 5000 IU

Deca - 250 mg / week (week 1-8)
Test P 150 mg every 2nd or 3rd day - I'll need to figure out a good system for this (week 2-9 or 3-10)
Winstrol - 20 mg ED (week 3 - 10)
Mesterolone - 25-50 mg (week 1 or 2-11)
PCT - *please give input given above ingredients

Any critique or advice appreciated as always, thanks brother once again!!! It means a lot that you're willing to give this helpful guidance to someone you don't really know. You are definitely doing the world some good deeds my man

 

[Harry Seaward]

Also please keep in mind I am open to other tests though, especially ones that I would only have to shoot once / week since P would be a pain in the ass pun intended...

 

[Harry Seaward]

I should note that reading on I might want to do a test that you only have to inject once per week since every two-three days is pretty rough...

In this case I would substitute the test-p with something like test-e 250 mg / week

 

[ManBeast]

I'd strongly reccomend Enan, that way you can pin 2x a week and just use your glutes.

ManBeast

 

[DNAMP]

You should run enant. At least 400mg/week of you want any good mass. Run something simple for your first cycle pin the least and maybe throw in an oral of you could get of dbol or var

 

[Harry Seaward]

Cool thanks guys, you're right maybe I'll just do the test-e and an oral, and I'll have all those AI's / PCT stuff ready to rock in case of any sides.

I'm probably going to still do just 250 / week because I'm fine if I gain 5 - 10 lbs of good weight, and I definitely want to err on the side of caution.