11 week cut cycle log, sd and hdrol combos, epistane, oxyguno and dbol

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    First off this log is going to help me stay motivated and busy since I'm away from home for a while. I've been lifting on and off for about 5 years, started at 132 and hang out between 170 and 180 now, depending of my BF. I estimate my current BF at around 11 at a weight of 173. Like most people I've spent the last 5 years trying to gain with over eating and overall a bad diet. I never had the urge to cut since I've always been so small. I'd like to cut down now so that i have a solid starting point for bulking with a proper diet and excersise routine. A solid cycle should help me maintain and or gain solid muscle mass during cutting. I have a intermediate knowledge of steriods and PH's, what ever you want to call them, I treat them the same. So with that said, on to my first log ever, comments good or bad welcome. I have tried some PH's before and lost my gains like most newbies, I'm familure with the strength of these compounds and also have extra nolva and adex in hand, just in case. Again this is my first log and yes i know its kinda a big cycle. I pretty much built this with what a couple of people i know had laying around. I actually think it came together rather well.

    I've started cutting prior to this but I'm running out of energy and loosing alot of size and strength. During the last month and a half I've lost 2 inches around my waist. EDIT BODYFAT WAS HIGHER THAN ESTIMATED ADJUSTED BELOW

    My diet will be roughly 1700 calories a day, 45/45/10 pro/carb/fat.DIET FAILED, START KETO WEEK 6. I have example diets of my last couple days if someone wanted to see them. I have been having trouble at night with hungry and end up snacking of nuts and fruits too much. I will have a cheat meal on the weekend at subway for a reward if i can stick to the plan. Like i said i have been losing already too.

    I', also taking multi vitamins, fish oils, potassium, and motrin w/needed.
    NOW: Day 1-----GOALS : in 10 weeks
    Weight 173 lbs------------178
    BF >14%------------->10%
    BMI 24.7---------------dont know
    Workout is a 4 day split with a average 40 mins of good fast cardio...
    workout has also been adjusted on page 4
    cardio / bi's / tri's / cardio
    cardio / chest / shoulders / cardio
    cardio / legs / abs / cardio
    cardio / back, traps / lats / cardio

    CYCLE EDITED: 4 week-bridge-4 week
    SD 5mg and hdrol 25mg and p-plex 5mg combo-----------1/1/1/1
    SD 15mg and hdrol 25mg combo-------------------------1/1/1/1
    Adex .5mg----------------------------------------------0/0/0/0/1/1
    Clomid 50mg--------------------------------------------0/0/0/0/1/1
    Dbol 12.5mg--------------------------------------------0/0/0/0/2/2
    Oxyguno 7.5mg-----------------------------------------0/0/0/0/0/0/3/3/3
    Epistane 10mg------------------------------------------0/0/0/0/0/0/4/4/4/5/5

    NEW PCT:
    Nolva 20mg-------1/1/1/1
    Clomid 50mg------2/2/1/1
    DAA 3g-----------1/1/1/1

    Last edited by Srt4Muscle; 12-17-2011 at 05:32 PM.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  2. so 11 wks of orals?? good idea here bro

  3. I'd love to follow

  4. Quote Originally Posted by gymrat827 View Post
    so 11 wks of orals?? good idea here bro
    yes, but the sd to epi cycle is recommended in many different places. I got it from a sticky labeled SD handbook if i remember correctly, 7 weeks + pct and i through the little bit of dbol in there to keep as much gains as possible. Ill be taking a large amount of liver support and drinking at least a gallon or two of water a day. epi is not too harsh and the oxyguno is very underdosed also, from what I've read.

  5. I would think if you had access to Dbol, you'd be able to grab some Test - would be a much better alternative for you, using SD as a kick start would work nicely.

  6. Quote Originally Posted by bashman View Post
    I would think if you had access to Dbol, you'd be able to grab some Test - would be a much better alternative for you, using SD as a kick start would work nicely.
    i totally agree, but in my current living conditions keeping pins and vials around is not a option, i promise.

  7. Day 1 was yesterday, i felt full of energy at the gym. i think i was just excited but anyway, im going to post my last weeks workout with this one so theres more to compare. I am just getting over a cold and feel a little weak. i also took the whole week end off to heal up, i was pretty sore all week last week. so in some places last week i was all burnt out and this week im getting over a cold. kinda bad numbers to work off of since theres a big difference but this is what i lifted.

    last week----------------------------------------------day 1 173.2lbs
    incline db warm up------50x12--------------------------50x12
    flat db-----------------65x13, 65x11, 70x6, 70x5--------70x13, 70x12, 70x9, 70x6
    incline db--------------50x13, 50x10, 50x11-------------55x10, 55x9, 55x9
    db flys-----------------25x10, 20x10, 20x10-------------25x12, 25x12, 25x10
    db military-------------30x12, 30x9, 30x7--------------30x13, 35x11, 40x10
    db lateral seated-------15x12, 15x12, 15x10, 15x8-------15x12, 15x12, 10x15, 10x15
    incline rear db flys------15x12, 15x12, 10x15, 10x15------15x12, 15x12, 15x12, 15x12
    arnold press------------25x6, 25x4, 20x7----------------30x10, 30x6

    also with all my energy i managed to run 8.15 miles on the olipicle in 65 mins. yeah i was feeling good...

  8. today was a little different, i felt a little sick again and pretty sure im starting to get hot flashes already. also my blood pressure seemed high after deadlifts. i took it easy after that, extra rest inbetween sets. felt really strong doing pull ups but im going to chalk that up to having some time off during the weekend to recover.

    last week----------------------------------------------day 2 171.9lbs
    deadlift warm up----------------145x12----------------155x12
    wide pull ups-------------------5, 4, 3-----------------10, 7, 6
    low row pulley------------------90x12, 90x10, 90x10----100x8+90x4, 90x9, 80x10
    high row pulley-----------------100x10, 90x10, 90x8-----90x10, 90x10, 90x10
    deadlifts-----------------------185x8, 185x8------------175x12, 175x10
    smith machine shrug front------165x10, 165x8-----------175x15, 175x12
    smith machine shrug back------155x10, 155x8-----------165x15, 165x12
    db shrugs---------------------100x10, 100x10----------100x10, 100x10

    for cardio today i did the moving stairs for 30 mins of level 7, it was low impact but very effective. i recently learned if you dont hold the rails you burn 40 to 60% more calories.

  9. this was pretty much my calorie intake for today, total >1750. it was really hard for me to not eat, but im trying to be as serious as possible.
    oatmeal packet 150
    nutrigrain bar 120
    2 eggs, 2 eggs whites, 2 sausage links 350
    nutrigrain bar 120
    5oz chicken breast, squash, biscut 400
    oatmeal cookie 150
    protein shake 150
    2 tuna sandwiches 350

    i did have some pistacios and a little bit of popcorn

  10. i would like to hear how many people split doses morning and afternoon compared to mid morning and preworkout?

    right now i dose at 6 am and 1200, but i dont usually lift until 5 or so...
    most half life of orals is about 6 hrs so i was think curious if this should affect my times of the day compared to when i workout?

    i will do some more research about half-lifes and answer my own question, but any help would be great too!

  11. I would drop the epistane from this run IMO. if you left it out the cycle wont be too bad

  12. Quote Originally Posted by gymrat827 View Post
    I would drop the epistane from this run IMO. if you left it out the cycle wont be too bad
    I dont plan on changin the cycle, i put alot of thought into it. I do enjoy a good discussion though, if i was going to drop something i would drop the oxyguno. oxygunos effectiveness and dosing are questionable at best and it is also methylated. well see how i feel i guess...everyone is different, if i finish the cycle effectively maybe i should look into a blood test for liver function although i will not have a base line. test results would still be interesting, i did not have time to get them done before i started.

    epistane is the part im looking forward to the most, i dont know how much you know about this compound but everything about it is great.

    you can refer to "unreal's guide to superdrol" from this site actually. yes i added a extra week and the dbol in the pct...but im just pointing out the sd to epi bridge to you. im not saying he would agree with my cycle either, just to be clear.

    feel free to comment on other aspects of my log too...

  13. i take it back if i was going to change it i would remove the last week of sd. but thats it

  14. felt ok today, had a long day at work with only 4 hours of sleep. been struggling with knots in my neck from a car wreck in march. had headaches since sunday and i got a massage today at the gym to relieve some pain. hopefully it clears up.

    last week----------------------------------------------day 3 171.4lbs
    squats-----------------135x10, 155x10, 165x10---------165x10, 165x10, 165x6, 165x6
    seated leg curls--------140x12, 150x11, 160x7-----------140x12, 150x5+140x5, 140x9
    seated calf machine----160x12, 180x10, 180x10----------170x12, 170x12, 170x12
    horizontal leg press-----200x12, 220x12------------------200x12, 200x12
    seated leg extension----120x12, 120x12------------------120x12, 120x12

    i did 10mins of rowing and then got my neck worked on. I finished with 20min on the stair machine. i did 100 cruches but my neck was killing me so i did not finish my leg raises for abs.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  15. today i felt really good got up at 8 to hit the gym, usually i workout after work so im beat already. just felt really good...i would like to specify i try and do all my workouts in perfect form and control the motions, i do all my curls against a wall and if i cant complete a set correctly i lower the weight. the reason im saying this is, today i pulled my neck on the preacher curls, its def strained now. ill be taking tomorrow off, i been trying to watch it but im just injury prone i guess. so all together i have a old torn tricep, old broke pelvis, fairly new herniated disk in my back, and a wipelash/strained neck that i have to baby!! i felt more hungry today and have not have anymore hot flashes. also i bought some hawthorne berry just in case it was my BP and not my neck giving me a headache.

    last week------------------------------------------------------------day 4 170.2 lbs
    warm up superset--straight bar curls--59x12--superset to--overhead bar extensions--50x12
    straight bar curls-----------------------59x13, 59x11, 59x11-----------69x11, 69x10, 69x8
    alternating hammer curls----------------30x12, 30x11, 30x8------------35x7+30x4, 30x11, 35x6+30x2
    wide ez preacher curls------------------60x11, 60x8-------------------60x11, 60x8
    close ez slow/negative curls-------------started this new on day 4-----40x12, 40x10
    skull crushers---------------------------90x6+80x8, 80x9, 80x9--------80x10, 80x11, 80x8 elbow hurt from a old injury
    close grip bench------------------------110x18, 110x12----------------115x15, 115x14
    tri push downs--------------------------50x12, 50x9, 40x8, 30x12------60x12, 65x7, 60x9, 60x8

    its thanksgiving here so i cut cardio short to make it to turkey lunch. i did 15 minutes at level 8 on the stair machine.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  16. this was my diet yesterday, not the cleanest but i tried... i get the worst cravings for sugar like i dont function right in the head with out it. i might go get some hoodia to help with my hunger. today i was super hungry and i think its gonna get worse...

    total >1950
    oatmeal packet 150
    nutrigrain bar 120
    small bannana 70
    4 eggs whites, 2 turkey bacon 270
    beef and veggies, biscut, milk 500
    protein shake 150
    nut mix 200
    chocolate bar 200
    beef stew 280

    now i have my base workouts for before, ive completed one full rotation of my workout now. ill start over after a rest day and probably do some cardio and abs if my neck feels ok in the morning.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  17. todays diet
    total >1850
    protein 150
    beef, veggies, rolls, jello, milk, yams est. 550
    protein 150
    turkey, ham, veggies, roll est. 450
    bologna slice 90
    pastacios 150
    protein 150
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  18. woke up this morning with a sore ass neck, from my head all the way behind my shoulder blade. this is ****ty injury is the reason i can never stay consistant, well that and two kids, a wife, and too much work. anyways i feel great besides that my arms are really full right now. ill be heading out for cardio and abs later.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  19. weighed in at 171.8 @ 9.6%BF and 24.7 BMI, did 30mins on the bike today, it was a quick workout. the gym closed early on me, thank god it was just my down day i would have been pissed. did about 80 decline sit ups and a drop set on the ab machine.

    i feel like my muscles want to literally tear sometimes, i dont know how to explain it. nothing to do with the cycle...kinda like when i do tricep pull down and i feel all the fibers in my arm tingling and pinging. im pretty sure the fibers are literally breaking apart. i guess thats the goal, break them down and they rebuild bigger, but its weird how i can feel it so easy. ive actually torn a part of my tricep off my elbow before and i strain fairly easy. im gonna do some research into this, maybe im lacking some sort of vitamin, i dont know.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  20. anyone have a problem with me running a eca stack after the 4th week and through pct. i feel like i need a stim or thermo, or something to help shred some fat. i havent been this skinny in a long time, but i think this last couple % of BF is gonna be a pain. i figure ill just do what i been doing since i lost a inch or 2 already and if i get stuck i need a back up plan. i guess i can eat cleaner but definitely not any less. im so damn hungry as it is.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  21. yesterday, i was excited to get back to lifting. i feel like i have a desent pump through the whole day, even on my day off. it was chest and shoulders. my neck was ok, i could feel the injury but i was careful not to aggrivate it. almost hurt it doing db military so i dropped the weight and did some consentrated lifts.

    i was considering switching to a 3 day slit, because i feel like i had alot of energy left after lifting and with work i might miss some extra days throughout the next 3 months. if i switch i could fit a couple more rotations of my whole routine in there. but for now i decided to stick to my workout, at least till next week. chest and shoulders went like this...
    day 6 172.7
    incline db warm up------50x14
    flat db-----------------75x11, 75x10, 75x8, 80x6
    incline db--------------55x13, 55x13, 60x8
    db flys-----------------25x13, 25x10, 20x7
    db military-------------40x8, 35x10, 30x12
    db lateral seated-------15x12, 15x12, 10x12, 10x12
    incline rear db flys------15x12, 15x12, 15x12, 15x12
    arnold press------------30x10, 30x7

    did 30 mins on level 8 on the stair machine for cardio. diet looked like this...
    total >1550
    protein 150
    4 egg whites, turkey bacon, rice 350
    tuna sandwich, apple 250
    chicken and rice 250
    tuna sandwich, apple 250
    4 egg whites, rice 250
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  22. I couldn't do that! I love food. You are going to be so cut

  23. Quote Originally Posted by fireworkz788 View Post
    I couldn't do that! I love food. You are going to be so cut
    hey traffic, holly ****!!! lol thanks man i dont feel like its coming off fast enough but im gonna be patient. i love food so much too but im tired of not being cut, and im gonna finally do it, i set my mind to it this time. weekends are easy because i can take a nap and dont do much beside the gym, but at work i want to eat all day.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  24. talk about lathargy right before i hit the db shrugs, i did not want to even pick them up. seriously i was dead...but i got them done

    day 7 172.1lbs
    deadlift warm up----------------155x14
    wide pull ups-------------------11, 6, 5
    low row pulley------------------100x10, 90x10, 90x8
    high row pulley-----------------90x12, 90x12, 90x11
    deadlifts-----------------------135x10, 135x10, 185x10, 185x10
    smith machine shrug front------175x15, 175x3 and stopped because my neck
    smith machine shrug back------175x15,
    db shrugs---------------------100x10, 100x10

    i did 3 sets of 20 of legs 6 to 10 inches for abs laying down, rotating from up, down, out to in, and back up, is one.
    the finished with 20 mins on the stair machine on level 8, i was so tired i couldnt take it anymore. i will have to come up with a quick solution to the lathargy, my eca stack will be here tomorrow, and if i can keep my BP down the ephedra and caffeine should keep me moving. well have to see by trial and error. i will try to finish the next two workout days with out stims, and readdress the situation then. all and all i felt really strong, some of my lifts are getting alot cleaner. rows were deeper and deadlifts were easier. i kept the weight down on the first two sets cause my back felt stiff, but when i loosened up i completed my normal reps no problem. remember i have a herniated disk l3-l4 that like to flare up so i play safe with low back workouts like deadlifts. ill post diet before i go to bed...
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  25. I always assumed the tingling near the elbows on pressdowns was more of a neurological result of stimulation of muscles in the vicinity of the ulnar nerve. The damage that happens to the fibers likely wouldn't cause the type of sensation you're talking about. I have occasional neuropathic foot pain that causes a similar sensation.

    I'm not concerned about overt hepatoxicity in this cycle (I still feel that effect is exaggerated) but you've included some heavily estrogenic compounds in here for a cutting cycle. Your doses are low but remember that many of these are exceptional bulking agents as a direct result of their estrogenicity.

    What is getting to me is your goal of 4% BF at the conclusion of the cycle. I'm all for setting sights high but diminishing returns become such a factor at %'s below 7 that you're probably in for some disappointment. But I do like the idea of setting sights high.

    Last thing. In my experience the anaerobic aspect of my workout seems to have its greatest thermogenic effect if I am going 10-12 rep range (as you are doing) but still reaching failure, or very very close, on those working sets. Not pushing the muscle to this threshold seems to limit the metabolic boost. You still don't want to overtrain, but your orals will help you through that. I do hope that you are taking at least one set per exercise to failure though. If nothing else, maximizing that lactate level will assist in muscle-sparing endogenous hGH secretion.

    Best of luck.

  26. einstein, thanks for you help. the tingling sensation im speaking of is near the "horseshoe" or the largest point in the tricep. it was just a theory of course, but yeah i dont know what it is exactly.

    i thought SD converstion to estrogen is pretty low, now im questioning myself, and i figured with epi i would def be in the clear. i do understand that estrogen is very necessary, the balance is hard to monitor. i was considering keeping it as low as possible and running a small dose(.5) of adex ED for week 2 and 5. how would you feel about that?

    i guess i was being a bit confusing myself, not to let you down, but my goal is to lose about 4 % bf for the cycle. i think i put a minus sign but the dashes messed it up lol, Ill change my original post but hey if you think i can do it, im down to try. i estimate my bf to be just under 12, maybe 11 or so. my realistic goal would be about 7, i dont like to set goals that i cant reach. ive lost about 2% of bf prior to starting this cycle, so hopefully another 4% wont be too hard on me. i am posting bf every 5 days, but the machine i use in very inaccurate. i dont believe im at 9.5 right now but my avatar picture turned out very nice so who knows. ive never cut down this low before and i cant wait to see all my abs for once!!!

    thanks again for the responses, its nice to get some support!!!
    Last edited by Srt4Muscle; 11-27-2011 at 07:39 AM. Reason: i meant adex not aromasin lol .5 yeah right!!
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  27. forgot to respond to the workout comment...
    most of my workout is 12, 10, 8. i write everything down and shoot for one over the number im lifting for, if i can do 13 on a 12 set then i go up in weight next time i lift that workout. usually i dont undershoot the weight im trying to do and also if i start to lose form in any way, ill either restart the lift, go for a drop set or just stop and wait for the next set. some workouts where i have a injury like my back i choose not to push it and stay at lighter weight and do about 15 reps. mostly deadlifts, shrugs, im also careful with skullcrushers and wont go over 80lbs anymore. so what im saying is my goal is failure at almost every set, not always do i hit failure but yes usually my last set in each workout is to failure. i also have a spot and finish a extra one to two reps on the last set of each workout but i dont count them because i get help. if i dont have help i will include a strong hold or slow negative to finish the last set.

    i just read another one of your posts and i am seriously considering superseting my workouts bi's and tri's. i do a warm up superset, maybe i should continue it throughout... any recommendations in this area would be greatly appreciated. i used to make up my own workout but now ive come to the conclusion that people have published workouts for a reason and i might not know as much as i think i do lol.
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  28. My bad on the BF%...For some reason I had it in my head you wanted to go down 7 from 11%->4%. 7% is a much more reasonable goal.

    The thing about the estrogenic effects has a lot to do with my bias about PPlex (I know there's very little here) and dbol than SD. They really tended to smooth me out. I love it for bulking for this reason, but if anything I would think it would hurt your cutting efforts to have that around. SD varies from person to person as far as rebound and with epistane there's no real issue. I would think that if you put someone on dbol and high-dose aromasin their gains would be in the neighborhood of what you'd get from hdrol or epi, which have no significant estrogen component.

    I've always thought aromasin would be best in the last week if a person chooses to do an-all oral cycle because it would really slow aromatization during the last time that any of the 17aa-estradiol(long-ass half-life) would be produced, thus getting you dried out and lessening the need for the SERMs, which seems like it would help HPTA recovery a bit.

    I guess what it comes down to is you're using several different drugs here to accomplish what Epistane and Hdrol do, often with less toxicity (or should I say fewer anecdotal reports of alarmingly high ast/alt values etc).

    I don't know how you feel about the PP Andro series (and no, I'm not a rep) but you could think about something in the neighborhood of androhard for a few weeks in the middle of the cycle for a few weeks as a break from the 17aas. It seems to be an esterified orally bioavailable DHT precursor. Expensive though, and I would expect your progress to slow during that period; I just know that it would be as strong as hdrol or epi... It's an option if you get concerned about hepatoxicity.

    I'm glad to hear you keep the training tough during cutting. Like I said, it's hard to overtrain on juice, so that's a good way to go about it. I always try to focus on the workout being as intense as possible and keep the emphasis off the fact that I have a drug in my system while I'm in the gym, just to avoid any type of "well I'm on right now so I don't need that extra rep" toxic thought process from entering my mentality.

    I love the superset for arms personally, when I'm not grouping chest/tri and back/bis. When I do, it looks something like this:

    Skullcrushers SS w/ Heavy standing BB curls (w/ spotter or cheat at end) 4x6-8
    DB tri extension (cross-body or overhead) SS w/ Concentration curl 4x8-10
    Drop set pushdowns SS w/ Drop set machine curls 2x10
    Standing reverse curls TS w/ Forearm curls TS w/ Rev. Forearm curls 3x10

    I'll introduce something else from time to time like preachers instead of standing, or alternating incline hammers instead of concentration curl, but you get the idea. Dips and close grip bench are awesome but I don't superset with them personally because they're more compound (and exhausting) movements. Plus they will make chest day much tougher if your pecs are sore from tricep work. Go heavy first with these, then really burn them out, and you'll swell up like a balloon and really stretch the fascia, which is why I love doing them on creatine or dbol or anything that delivers that pump.

    If you do shoulders the same day, with military presses and heavy upright rows, you might eliminate a set or two due to the heavy stresses you've already had your arms on as secondary muscles. And remember, supersetting is pretty aerobic even for arms, so be in good shape. Keeping the same bar for skullcrushers and standing curls, for example, means less walking around and dodging pencilneck JV football kids, which will help you maintain your energy for the working sets. Do watch out for tendonitis from the first superset though, it can be a killer if your joints are dry. And if you want to keep the weight lower for skullcrushers go behind the head more and bring the bar up in more of a straight line than a curve (meaning your elbows will move some, but with practice you can keep the target stress on the tricep). With a slower rep tempo, you can get a good brun, and do a 5 sec rest-pause set on the last set of curls and skullcrushers to get that last mind-numbingly painful rep, without having to add to the overall lift weight.

    Damn, I wanna work out now but it's time for bed.

    Good luck.

  29. i really could look for another option for the second part of the cycle, i just love SD, and the EPI seemed like such a good idea for the cut. i would agree with you on when to run the aromasin, but im a idiot and i totally meant adex .5 would have been ridiculous lol anyway, sounds like a good idea at the end, also a good idea in case you have rebound because obviously you would be in PCT very soon. Im talking about small doses here too, and only for one week at a time. although like weve discussed so far i might not need to worry too much about estrogen from the sd or the epi. the dbol is only 10mg so i think even if it all aromitased to estro it wouldnt be too muchm and ill be taking nolva at the same time

    as far as the workout goes, i can definitely see the benifit of a contradicting superset. if i decided to incorporate that soon ill try and stick to the same workouts ive been doing for now. to be honest, im guilty of switching workouts to often and this time i dedicated to this workout and this cut. im not playing around anymore.

    heres my calorie intake for the day
    total >1200
    1000 - chicken, rice, peas 250
    1300 - protein shake 150
    1500 -tuna w/1 bread
    1520 - nutragrain bar 120
    1800 - chicken/corn/carrots 360
    2000 - fat tunasandwich 200

    its almost bed time but my calorie intake is really low, i dont know if this is good or too low honestly? i guess i have a cup of oj and a cup of grape juice and those are kinda sugar calories. but besides that im trying really hard hopefully i can keep it up at work, i doubt it though lol
    Corn is to popcorn as, prohormones are to steriods...

  30. Bro got your message email me lets talk justbri247@aol


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