Skark's 1st Cycle - M1T & M4OHN Stack

  1. Skark's 1st Cycle - M1T & M4OHN Stack

    M1T & M4OHN Stack

    Firstly, for those who don’t recommend stacking Methyls responsibly, please keep your thoughts to yourself. Guys have been stacking oral AAS for 40 years without incident.

    Age: Old enough to hit on your Mom and young enough to kick your ass if you bitch about it

    Lifting Experience: 25 years on and off (mostly off), last two years religious like a Monk

    Anabolic Experience: Virgin
    Diet: See below
    Training: See below
    Height: 6’ 1?
    Weight: 223 (update 7/31)
    BF%: 25 -yeah, yeah keep reading – Measured by hand-held bio-electrical impedance
    Goal: Body Recomposition

    5 Week Anabolic Cycle
    Wks 1-2: 5-7 mgs M1T (cut up 10 mg pills not too accurate since they don’t have a score-line) – Meso Labs, the good stuff laced with DBol

    Wks 1-5: 12 mgs (wk 1-2) M4OHN going to 16 mgs after M1T is completed – DS powder, suspended in Olive Oil (no, not Popeye’s GF ), 4 mgs/ml

    Will take M4OHN at 7:00 AM, 12:00 Noon, 4:00 PM, and the fourth (M1T or M4OHN) at 8:00 PM

    R-ALA: 600 mgs/day (helps keep those liver values down)
    Hawthorn Berry for high BP if needed
    Pre Workout Stack: 2g ALCAR, 1g Chocomine, 1g L-Tyrosine

    Phase 1 PTC (25 days)
    Custom Nolva: 40 mgs for 10 days, 30 mgs for 10 days, 20 mgs for 5 days
    Liver Supps: NAC 500mgs, Milk Thistle 960mgs, Saw Palmetto 160 mgs
    Creatine: 10g

    Phase 2 PTC (30 days)
    1g High Proto Tribulus
    1.5g Avena Sativa
    Clen or ECA if I need to drop lbs

    OK, with all the preliminaries out of the way here is my background. I just completed a 2.5 year quest to drop 185 lbs. Used Low Carb (my own plan) to drop the weight. Now that I am at a decent weight (it still feels strange to shop at a “normal? clothing store after spending the last 20 years at 350+ lbs ), it is time to shift the focus from weight loss to Recomposition. The perfect anabolic stack would be to gain no weight, but drop 3% BF.

    This is why M4OHN is the focus. The small dose of M1T is to get the process started since it kicks in quickly, and the M4OHN takes about two weeks to get going. I understand I will get some water gain from M1T and Creatine, but my diet will be tight (hell, dieting is the ONE thing I am great at these days) so I’ll try not to get freaked out by the scale.

    My metabolism is pretty repressed as you can imagine from 2.5 years on a constant diet. My calorie intake has been about 2000 cals, and the only time I tried a higher level (2800) I started gaining. So I am going to try 2300 cals to start with. If I start losing weight, I’ll increase it…….but I WON’T decrease it.

    My desired macro nutrient profile is:
    70g Fat
    220g Carbs (high quality ie whole grains, brown rice when I can)
    200g Protein (1.2X lean body mass)

    Will eat 3 food meals per day, 1 bar (Detour), and 1 shake (or other high protein snack)

    I switch up my program and exercises every month. The first month is Max-OT. I normally do Max-OT on a 3 day split, working bodyparts once a week, ramping up from 6-9 sets per bodypart through the 4 week period, via the Big Beyond Belief theory.

    I think where a lot of guy’s anabolic cycles give less than anticipated results is due to them NOT taking advantage of the increased recovery ability available to them through chemistry, like DC says the more growth opportunities (workouts) you have, the more growth you will get (understanding the goal is to stimulate, not annihilate….Lee Haney) as long as your recovery ability is up to the challenge.

    So my Max-OT split THIS time will be a 2 way split for the first two weeks working bodyparts TWICE a week albeit with reduced number of sets per workout (4 for the first week rater than the standard 6…..but at twice a week each bodypart will see 8 sets per week, a work increase of 30%)

    The second two weeks will be a 3 way split, still working bodyparts twice a week (so I will workout 6 days a week during this segment).

    The last anabolic week will be spent on HIT, I’ll cover that later.
    Last edited by Skark; 07-31-2004 at 09:23 AM.

  2. Sounds like you know what you're after. Program looks solid for weight loss with some recomp. You may find that higher volume training will be a bitch while on M1T. Pumps often get painful to the point where people have to stop and "deflate" lol. It can really suck so I usually got the HIT route when on it.

    Start taking hawethorne several weeks before the cycle as it takes this long to kick in.

    Given your history, have you had blood pressure and lipids checked recently? I ask only because I consider M1T to be more dangerous to the heart than anything else. The BP spikes on it can be intense and have caused many to cut cycles short.

    You'll probably gain a decent amount of muscle even at low calories..M1T's crowning glory. M4OHN is a lovely compound.

    ..and no, you can't kick my ass

  3. Thanks Bio,

    I'm starting everything today, so maybe I missed the boat on the Hawthore Berry window. My BP is usually rock-solid, so I don't think there will be a problem.

    I think 5-7 mgs of M1T won't be enough to present a high level of sides. For most, I think M1T should be used as a secondary part of the stack (with reletively small doses) to minimize the harsh sides and effects on body chemistry.

    In future cycles, I intend to use M1T with compounds such as:
    M1,4ADD (for a super bulk)
    M-Dien (for slight bulking)
    M4OHN (for Recomposition or cutting)
    M5AA (for strength....and hair loss )

    Haven't had any blood work lately, but am healthy after the big weight loss.

  4. Day #6

    Cycle is going well. The only side effect I've had so far is itchy nipples, which I knocked out with a couple days of Nolva. Since I have naturally high levels of estrogen this didn't surprise me, I thought this might happen with M1T.

    So far the gains have been great. At one point during my workout tonight, I had gone to failure on something and ended up on my hands and knees trying to catch my breath, and I looked down at my arm and just didn't believe how damn big it looked

    I only want to weigh once a week, but I just happened to put the weight (doctor's scale) on 230 (I started at 223) and stepped on the scale last night and the bar SLAMMED the top of the scale meaning I weighed WAY over 230

    Now I understand that a lot of it is water (my urination length and frequency are way down (yes I count ) but still for eating under maintenance (2300 cals) that's quite a feat.

    Oh, by the way, those Detour bars freakin ROCK

  5. Wk #1 in the books

    Weight: 230 (Up 7 lbs)
    BF %: 24.6 (Down 0.4%)
    Average Calories: 2303
    Average Fat: 86g
    Average Carbs: 180g
    Average Protein: 214g

    Worked out 4 times
    Walked for 3 hours

    Very pleased so far. Strength is up, no lethergy or cramps due to the M4OHN. Urination frequency and duration has been normal the past two days, so it looks like the water retention part of the cycle is over. So next week should reveal what the REAL gains are from M1T, then in week 3 the M4OHN will kick in.

  6. Decided to go to 10 mgs M1T for the second week. I have a lifetime supply, so why not

  7. good deal man
    i will be keeping up with this one
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    hair loss from steroids dot com

  8. Nice log! It is interesting to see the positive effects of running M1T to kickstart a cycle like this in a caloric deficit, especially w/o 4AD added. Being able to see good results in the 5-10mg/day range is a blessing imo.

    If your experience is like mine, the second week will bring more in the way of both results and side effects. I started noticing most of the common sides to some extent by the end of week 2. Good luck. I'll be checking this log frequently.


  9. Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    Nice log! It is interesting to see the positive effects of running M1T to kickstart a cycle like this in a caloric deficit

    Yeah, same here... I'll be using some Meso Labs M1T to start-off my MOHN/1,4 Andro cycle; running cals a few hundred over BMR.

  10. Thanks guys.....

    Holy crap I had absolutely the best Max-OT workout EVER

    Normally on Max-OT I have difficulty gaining strength, for a couple of reasons. First, I have difficulty working in the 4-6 rep range (my "standard" is 12), my strength is somewhat unpredictable (varies a lot), and second it is hard on the joints.

    For example, on my last cycle, with 6 days rest between bodyparts, I was only able to increase the weight on 4 exercises IN THE WHOLE MONTH.

    Just in the past two workouts this time WITH 60 HOURS REST (remember I have increased the frequency to take advantage of the increased recovery ability chemistry offers) I increased the weight on 8 exercises

    I was throwing those weights around like rag dolls

    No soreness, no fatigue, nothing is getting in the way

    Yeah, this stack is pretty good

  11. Day #12

    Still doing great, feel strong with no sides. Workouts are going great even with the increased frequency. Will start lifting 6 days a week starting Sunday.

    Weight: 235 (+12)
    No bloating, clothes fit fine
    Look much more muscular

    Certainly ready to drop the M1T and drop a little water weight.....the scale is scaring me

  12. Day #15

    End of week 2
    Weight: 230 (unchanged from last week, +7 overall)
    BF%: Not taken this week
    Exercise: 2.5 hrs walking, 4 workouts
    Nutrition breakdown
    (avg per day): 81g fat, 205g carb, 200g Pro, 2288 cal

    Now stopping M1T as per plan, and going from 12mg to 16 mg M4OHN.

    Started dropping water mid-week. Again, way higher than normal strength gains. Over the past two days, felt BP was up during my workouts (face was red, and felt like my head was stopped up, veins in my head were protruding).

    Feel great overall, now looking for the M4OHN to kick in. Going to 6 workouts a week (still working bodyparts twice a week) since I am ramping up the number of sets (increasing by 1 set per bodypart per week).

  13. Just finished 5 workouts in 5 days.....damn I've NEVER been able to do something like that before. My recovery time seems like it is instantaneous, I gained strength on all 5 workouts.

    Since I came of M1T, my pumps have been much improved........feel like Ahnuld

    No sides, feel great

  14. After dropping the M1T, i would bump up your M4OHN dosage to 30-40mg.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by lancelot
    After dropping the M1T, i would bump up your M4OHN dosage to 30-40mg.
    No thanks, 16 mgs is doing exactly what I want it to do this time.

    Another couple of great workouts in the books. Next weigh-in is Saturday.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Skark
    No thanks, 16 mgs is doing exactly what I want it to do this time.

    suit yourself as long as it's working for ya. personally, i'm not seeing much with 28mg/day and this is my 30th day. i'll be bumping my dosage to about 35mg/day and adding M5AA at 60-80mg/day to try to achieve some BF loss and strength gains. anyhow, good luck to you.

  17. Didn't mean to start an argument, but I am seeing tremendous gains in strength and size so I just want to stick to the plan. I guess I'm a good responder, felt like Atlas last year on a creatine cycle too. I have 24 grams, so its not like I don't have enough

    Seriously, you might try M-dien which seems to work great for the guys not seeing much from M1T and M4OHN, but sucks for everyone else. Or M1,4ADD which everyone praises but is just expensive in high dosages.

    Weigh-In tomorrow!!!

  18. Day #22

    End of Week #3

    Weight: 229 (-1 from last week, +6 overall)
    Exercise: 1.5 hrs walking, 6 workouts
    Nutrition breakdown
    (avg per day): 74g fat, 237g carb, 192g Pro, 2299 cal

    Now a week out from stopping M1T, I expected some water weight loss, and was pleased it was only 1 lb.

    Workouts were great again this week, strength rising constantly, and tremendously short recovery time. I mean there was NO WAY I could ever attempt 6 workouts in a week, much less gain strength.

    I literally ran out of protein foods yesterday, prior to that I was on target

  19. Just completed a full-body workout (3 workouts in 2 days), and am able to raise the weight on 8 of 11 exercises (meaning I averaged >5 reps per set).

    This kind of strength gain in the 4th week of a Max-OT cycle is unheard of for me

    Of course, like normal on a low rep cycle for me my joints are killing me

    Its kind of hard to type with an ice pack on both arms

  20. Day #29

    End of Week 4

    Weight: 227 (-2 from last week, +4 overall)
    Exercise: 6 workouts
    Nutrition breakdown
    (avg per day): 87g fat, 214g carb, 203g Pro, 2363 cal

    Several people commented on my "weight loss" this week (of course I am several lbs heavier in reality) so the M4OHN is working great for body recomp. Definately leaner, but with awesome strength increases.

    Because of a vacation in early October cuts this 3 month plan short, I started Creatine loading yesterday so my weight next week may contain some bloat.

    Tomorrow will be the last Max-OT workout, I will have a strength test on Wednesday, then start a HIT cycle with all new exercises and rep range (12 reps/set goal) on Friday, back to my normal 3 workouts per week on a 2 way split.

    Then next Saturday the PCT and liver supps start.

  21. Thanks for the update. If you don't mind posting numbers, I would really like to see what kind of strength gains you end up with over the course of 5 weeks on the main lifts you focus on. You obviously respond quite well to M4ohn and I would like to get an idea of what is possible hypocalorically. I know a bit about max-ot, noting especially that the low reps(4-6) should provide for a good baseline strength program for a cycle like this one.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal
    I would really like to see what kind of strength gains you end up with over the course of 5 weeks on the main lifts you focus on
    Thanks for the inquiry Cardinal

    Since I keep all my statistics at hand, this is an easy request to fill:

    Average strength gain per month in 2003 = 3.8%

    I used HIT (Dorian Yates style exclusively) in 2003 except for 2 HST cycles

    Average strength gain per month in 2004 = 6.9%

    This year I am alternating HIT (again the Dorian Yates style), Max-OT, and Killzone (An advanced version of HST that I developed to overcome a couple of shortcomings in the original). I attribute the increased strength gains this year not only to mixing in different styles of workouts, but paying closer attention to nutrition for muscle building, for example this is the first year I've added post-workout shakes and supplement regularly with BCAAs and Glutamine peptides.

    Previous Max-OT average strength gain per month = 6.1%

    This actually surprised me since it feels like I always do so poorly on it(kills my joints and desire to workout), it is quite effective though to workout in the 4-6 rep range.

    Now the number you are looking for:

    August 2004 Max-OT strength gain = 11.6%

    Easily the biggest gain ever. Previosly, the biggest number was 9.1% which occured early in 2003 when I went on a Creatine/HMB stack (but I was much weaker at the time so this 11.6% number now is a HUGE improvement).

    And the most amazing part is that I could easily have posted GREATER GAINS if I had not kept my load increase limits in place, that is increasing the load a MAXIMUM of 4% (many times less) every other protect my tendons since I hear about so many injuries from anabolic cycles from guys who feel they could lift a house and actually try to.

    Strength wise, there were times I could have raised the load 5% for 3 or 4 workouts in a felt THAT good.

    Just finished my last double split. After a month of grueling workouts, on this final day I met the criteria to increase the load on 5 of 8 eligible exercises (3 more I just increased the load on in this workout, so they weren't eligible).

    Just incredible results.

  23. Thanks for the response. Damn, those are rather incredible results! Percentage wise, you aren't too far from doubling your max-ot average. Very cool. Keeping tendon/joint health in mind is always important. Nothing stifles progress quite like an injury. From what I have read on anabolic cycles, a lot of guys get injured post cycle trying to maintain all the strength. That is a biggie I am going to watch out for.
  24. tattoopierced1
    tattoopierced1's Avatar

    Where did you get the Meso Labs M1T at? I cant seem to find it anywhere.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by tattoopierced1
    Where did you get the Meso Labs M1T at? I cant seem to find it anywhere.
    The Meso Labs M1T was the first product on the market. Its not being sold anymore because it was found to contain Dbol as an impurity.....makes for an awesome combo. Every now and then you will see a stray bottle or two on the swap meet it at any price

    I'm lucky to have 8 bottles of the stuff.

    Weighed in at 229.5 on Saturday, bloated a little by the creatine. Also started PCT that day. The only side effect I developed was some acne on the last week. Still getting weight loss compliments.....even though I am up 6 lbs.


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