Real Power Can't Be Given

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  1. Real Power Can't Be Given

    Planned Cycle:

    Week 1:
    5mg M1T ED
    200mg 1-T Transdermal (T-Gel) ED
    400mg 4-AD Transdermal (T-Gel) ED

    Week 2:
    5mg M1T ED
    250mg 1-T ED
    400mg 4-AD ED

    Week 3-4:
    250mg 1-T ED
    400mg 4-AD ED
    40mg-80mg M5AA ED

    Week 5-6:
    250mg 1-T ED
    200mg 4-AD ED
    70-80mg M5AA ED

    Post Cycle Therapy
    CNW Nolvadex(40 reducing to 20 over 6 weeks)
    NAC/Milk Thistle
    CNW Clen (2 on / 2 off)
    Alternated with:
    E HCL / Caffeine

    Personal Statistics
    Age: 24
    Minimum Depleted BW: 180 lbs
    Waist: 33.5"
    Arms: 14.6, 14.75" = L,R
    Date Taken: July 22, 2004
    Training Experience: 10 yrs (2 BB/Strength Training)

    Past Cycle Experience

    First Cycle
    4 week cycle 1-T(200-300mg ED)/4AD(200mg ED).
    6-oxo PCT (kept all of gains)
    On from 5/16/04 to 6/16/04
    PCT through 7-14-04

    2-4 lbs gain in lbm
    20lb gain in Squat
    15lb gain in Chinning strength
    Very little improvement in pressing strength

    Moderate Lethargy
    Appetite Increase
    Increased libido

    Supps, Diet, Training etc. to follow. Plan is to update this daily when possible in a detailed manner. I have had this six weeker planned for some time now, and recently added in the M1T to kickstart the cycle as suggested on several threads by Cuffs. I am comfortable with the idea of using a mild dose M1T as a first cycle. I have a good handle on how I react to 1-T dosed 200-300mg/Day. All comments/suggestions at anytime are welcomed! I am looking forward to a good bulking cycle.

    Last edited to reflect dosage reduction on M1T in week 1, and increase in 1-Test for week 2. Also to reflect decreased usage of 4AD in weeks 5-6, and increased dosing of M5AA.

    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-23-2004 at 05:20 PM.

  2. If you want to pyramid on the M1T, I would pyramid up (5mg 1st week, 10mg 2nd week) instead of down.

    I figure you are trying to jumpstart your cycle but since m1t is going to shut down your natty test production during the first week anyways at any dose, you might as well do a full 2 week cycle, bumping from 5mg to 10mg if you are not getting results. if you do week 2 at 5mg or 10mg you will still be shutdown, so might as well take advantage of the M1T. Don't bump to 10mg unless you need it, I would bet the stress m1t puts on people does not increase linearlly with the amount of compound taken.

    Be sure to eat, putting on only 2-4lbs during a 4 week 1-t cycle seems kinda low unless you were cutting.

  3. Diet
    Minimum 3500 Calories
    2g/lb lbm Protein
    6-8 Liters Water/Day

    Sample Food Selection
    Tuna, Eggs, Turkey Burgers, WPC80, Low Fat Cottage Cheese, Chicken, Bobsredmill Extra thick oatmeal, Nature's own double fiber ww bread, EVOO, Fish Oil, Green Beans, zucchini, tomatoes, blueberries, spinach, onion, carrots

    NOW Multivitamin/Multimineral
    Extra (B, C, E, Zinc)
    Green Tea Extract (Caffeine)
    Electrolytes (Ca+, K+, Mg+)
    BSL WPC 80
    Taurine (3-5g/ED)
    Hawthorn Berry
    Nicotine Gum
    Soluble Fiber/Thickeners (Psyllium, Xantham)
    Fish oil (6g/ED)

    Training Focus (Strength/Hypertrophy)
    Primary Lifts Trained (Current Best):
    Backsquat (215x3x3)
    SLDL/Keystone DL
    Leg Press/Leg Curl
    Horizontal Pressing (e.g. Bench, CGBP) (180x5, 215x1)
    Overhead Pressing (140x5)
    Dips (250x10)

    Training priority:
    1) Avoid injury!

    Miscellaneous Notes (Read if bored)
    I'll post BW statistics at the start of my cycle. I expect to gain at least 10 lbs before starting due to glycogen loading etc. I won't be surprised if I experience a high amount of lethargy and HPTA shutdown within the first week of this. M1T dosing will be adjusted as necessary based on side effects. I didn't post a specific training plan as I will likely train to accomodate any problems encountered with M1T during weeks 1-2. I plan to start this within the next few days. I wanted to wait until I had taken my exam(GMAT) and finished a school project. I also am coming off 5 days heavy depletion and would like to normalize my bodyweight and metabolism a bit before beginning. By my calculations, I lost roughly 1.8 lbs bodyfat in about 5 days with a modicum of strength/muscle loss.

  4. cr4ytonic,

    Thank you for the feedback! I actually like your idea of starting at 5mg. In fact, I wouldn't mind going 5mg for both weeks there. I see the wisdom in the current line of thinking not to use any more M1T than absolutely necessary to show results.

    I agree, I definitely could have gotten a bit more out of my first cycle. I didn't feel shutdown and gains were coming along nicely when I stopped at week 4. I made a couple of mistakes I won't make again. During the first two weeks I overate to a large extend and ended up gaining quite a bit of bodyfat (I didn't notice the 1-T kicking in until week 3). From there I reduced my caloric intake to 3500 (my BW had hit 210) for the final 2 weeks. That is likely what limited my anabolism. I did manage to lean out quite nicely though during those two weeks, which surprised me a great deal.

    This time around I am going to be a bit more cautious. But I have at least one good thing going for me. My appetite doesn't end and I have no trouble intaking massive amounts of calories. I am actually hoping to get some appetite suppression from the M1T. I have included several appetite suppressants (Nicotine/Caffeine, No E HCL, Soluble fiber) as the increased appetite from 1-Test was part of the reason I went overboard last cycle. The suppresant mechanisms I use give me the control I need to plant calories whereever I want them. So binging issues shouldn't be a big deal this time. I am also looking forward to getting some diversification going in the diet. More protein from different sources for a change.

    I also ate very consistently on PCT. Based on real world results, I think my maintenance is a bit above 15xBW. I also used E/C off and on to control appetite and that may have increased metabolism a bit. I am toying with the idea of including 1-2 HIIT session per week or other similar options for cardio which would give me further confidence in increasing calories.

    Edit: Also noted. Using 5mg each week will give me a chance to adjust calorie levels for week 2 and know what to expect. I think roughly 3800 kcals would be a good starting point for the first week.

    Once again, thank you for the feedback. Any and all suggestions welcomed. My home computer is FUBAR and I may not have access tonight (Friday) or Saturday. Virus has slowed my comp down I can't really download webpages or post. I'll check this a bit later if possible. I hope to be able to provide a lot of good feedback as my cycle progresses. For a non-injectable, hopefully this will produce adequate results. I know my diet will be key. Time to go eat!
    Last edited by Cardinal; 07-23-2004 at 01:39 PM.
  5. It's On!

    Morning Bodyweight: 189lbs
    Rest: 8 Hours

    I started my cycle today. 5mg M1T taken upon rising. 100 mg 1-T and 187.5 mg 4-AD taken 2 hours later. Mild to moderate lethargy felt within 1 hour of 1-T administration. Just like last time! Green tea counteracted the lethargy nicely.

    Transdermal Mixing

    Using an accurate scale, I measured out 7.5 g 1-Test in and mixed in 120ml T-Gel. Leaving bottle cap loose, I heated it lightly in a waterbath for about 10 minutes. I tried to get closer to 8 grams to dissolve without success. I am dosing the 4AD at 375mg/day for easy of measurement.

    First application went fine. I am applying a lot of transdermal lotion given the higher amount 4AD. The T-Gel is a lot easier to work with than the Dermabolics spray I used last go round. I made the application after a hot shower, applying it to thin skinned areas as commonly suggested to increase absorption.

    Day 1 Log
    July 25, 2004

    Sample Daily Diet

    Here is an idea of what a typical menu will look like. Normally I will just track calories/protein totals and keep it clean. I don't think I left anything out. Diet is a compromise b/w what I think should yield really solid result and creating a ridiculously enjoyable diet using tons of food.

    40 egg whites
    6 whole eggs
    2 cans tuna
    2 loaves double fiber whole wheat bread
    6g fish oil
    3 lb bag iceberg lettuce
    Jar dill pickles
    1/2 container Cary's
    1 pack sf gum
    6 liters water
    3 scoops WPC80
    Promise low cal butter

    ~3800 Calories
    410g Protein
    315g Carbohydrates
    55g Fat
    ~100g SA
    Boatload of Fiber

    Training July 25, 2004

    BWx2x7, BWx6, BWx5
    DB Rows
    90x2x8, 90x7
    Partial Deads (Down to upper knee cap)
    315x5, 335x5, 325x6
    Hang Cleans


    Felt rested and in positive spirits. Weights are representative of my true strength at start of cycle. Caffeine gave me a nice energy boost preworkout.

    If I think of more I will add it in the morning!

    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:36 PM.

  6. Day 2:
    July 26, 2004

    Bodyweight: 193 lbs
    Waist: 34.25"
    Rest: 6.5 hours
    Food: 3900 Calories, >300g Protein

    195x4 (-10lbs), 195x3, 195x4
    Leg Press
    360x3x7 (-3 reps)
    Leg Curl


    I felt weaker today than I have in quite some time. Lack of sleep (I need closer to 8 hours) combined with training the deadlift yesterday dropped my squat strength down 10lbs. Not quite the direction I want to be heading! I decided not to push it too hard, keeping the volume rather low. Plenty of time to go full throttle when the Androgens kick in.

    I am going to dose some melatonin tonight and get in an hour or two extra sleep. It has always made a big difference for me in the past.

    Overall, I feel fantastic eating this much food. I can eat all day long and not worry too much about going overboard given my food selection. Insulin has remained high and stable. Focus is good overall.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:27 PM.

  7. Day 3
    July 27, 2004

    Bodyweight: 193 lbs
    Slumber: 8 hours (mission accomplished!)
    Food: 3700 Calories
    BP Postworkout: 131/62*

    *They decided to plant a blood pressure monitor smack dab in the middle of our weight room. I am a little guy with little arms so maybe it will show accurately. I measured once a few days ago and got 111/58, oddly low I thought for postworkout. I am taking Hawthorn berry along with the M1T, so I'll keep track.


    Barbell Military Press
    135x2x4, 135x5, 140x3(-2 reps)
    DB Bench
    80x4, 70x9,8,7,6
    65x9x8, 65x2x7, 65x8
    COC #1
    DB OH Press


    I just started with the captain's of crush grippers and could close the #1 for sets of five once my hands warmed up. Plan is to work up in reps with the number one and try for the #2 when I can hit 10+. I am nowhere close now.

    I got plenty of rest and felt good working out. I also didn't fatigue a great deal during the workout. Overall, quite normal. I was just much weaker than expected. I am not sure the cause. Complaints about weakness should cease within the week if all goes well!
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:25 PM.

  8. I never laid out a specific training protocol. My plan was and still is to take a shotgun approach and train intuitively. I have narrowed my focus a little bit regarding what I want to accomplish strengh-wise. I have never been a solid presser and have trained bench for many years. This time around I am going to focus on increasing overhead pressing by training the military press and push press frequently. I think I have more potential going that route. Horizontal pressing will be trained for hypertrophy without regard to strength.

    Roughly I am looking at training pulling work and pressing work every third day, however that falls schedulewise. Squatting will be done every 4th or 5th day. Deadlifting and Hang cleans each at least once a week. I may forgo deadlifting somewhat and and work on cleans some weeks so I can train them more frequently.

    Side note:

    I am now carrying three bags of food around with me in addition to my bookbag. Wondering if I still need to go to the gym and lift =D Comments from peers have already started regarding the overall food volume consumed at each meal. As needed I will get more calorie dense foods in there but so far appetite has been at full throttle.

  9. Thanks for the updates, are you really eating two loaves of bread a day? Are those full loaves? That is a lot of bread!

  10. Yes. They are the nature's own double fiber loaves. I just made a bunch of sandwiches yesterday and ate them while I was studying throughout the day. It comes to about 40 slices bread total.

    I am going to use more protein and fat meals today and skip out on the bread. Only major downside I have noticed so far is that it takes a lot of time to eat that much all day long. I am experiencing more soreness in my jaw than any other muscles at this point. Today will be my off day so to speak =D

  11. Day 4
    July 28, 2004

    Bodyweight: 195
    Sleep: 8 Hours
    Food: 3600 Calories
    BP Preworkout: 113/61


    195x7, 195x5
    HS Low Rows
    220x10 (cheating)
    DB Ab Work


    No change in strength levels yet. Bodyweight was about 2 lbs higher than expected coming in the form of visible sub-c water retention. Very mild lethargy, predictably after 1-T application.

    As I progress into this first week, I am systematically eliminating anything from my setup that might result in a lack of progress. I want to have everything tweaked by the time I notice results from the androgens. Today I incorporated a lot more dietary fat (n-9) with a temporary reduction in cho. I expect a slight drop in waterweight tomorrow and am taking a planned day off from training to rest up. No cardio has been done or will be done until I decide to bump calories further. Right now I am sitting roughly 750 cals/day over calculated maintenance.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:22 PM.

  12. Day 5
    July 29, 2004

    Bodyweight: 188
    Rest: 8 Hours
    Food: 3600 Calories
    Protein: 1.5g/lb lbm (High Fat)

    Today's update to come...
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:23 PM.

  13. Day 6
    July 30, 2004

    Bodyweight: 189 lbs
    Sleep: 7.5 hours
    BP: Forgot to take it


    195x5, 200x5, 205x4(-1 rep off best), 210x3
    Leg Curls
    75x10, 75x9
    HS Dips
    250x10(no change), 250x2x9
    DB OH Press
    60x2x6(no change)
    Calf Presses
    3 sets



    My training intensity today was identical to the way I felt 'on' last cycle with 1-T/4AD. Felt more stable under the weight, adding poundage and reps from last workout. Though stronger, it was nothing freakish. Pumps were moderate in nature. No cramping anywhere or other side effects.

    Changes that could account for strength:

    Increase dietary fat at expense of cho. No change in calories. I was well rested but felt somewhat lethargic coming into the workout.

    Since this is day 6, it is possible that the 4-AD could be kicking in. A few reports indicate noticiing effects roughly one week in on 4AD. I hope and and believe however that it is the M1T. I haven't seen much data on how quickly the M1T kicks in, but more often than not I see the pattern of noticing results at day sixish. I am going to stick to the dosage of 5mg/ED assuming continued progress.

    I am bumping the 1-Test to 250mg each day and plan on running that amount for the duration of my cycle, again contingent on results.

    After doing a bit more reading on M1T, I am going to approach each workout by attempting to add weight to the bar rather than adding volume and repetitions, all the while continuing to train bodyparts frequently to max out growth opportunities.

    Looking forward to tomorrow's workout.

    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:20 PM.

  14. Day 7
    July 31, 2004

    Bodyweight: 196
    Sleep: 8 Hours
    Food: 3750 Calories


    BB High Pulls
    COC Grippers
    3 work sets with #1
    *Going for 10 Clean reps/set. Will then attempt #2.


    Slight but noticable increase in strength. My next training split should give me a good feel for how much strength I am getting off of M1T. Today (Sunday) is a rest day.

    Bloating and water retention is substantial. Libido has been steadily increasing since about day 4 of cycle.

    Day 8
    August 1, 2004

    Bodyweight: 198
    Sleep: 9 hours
    Food: About 3800 calories planned
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:19 PM.

  15. Day 9
    August 2, 2004

    Bodyweight: 205
    Sleep: 7.5 hours
    Food: 4000 Calories Planned


    195x5, 200x5, 210x2x4, 185x7
    Leg Press
    360x12, 410x9, 450x5, 470x2x4
    Calf Work On Leg Press
    3 sets
    Leg Curl
    80x9, 80x7


    Bodyweight up a lot more than expected. A lot of bloat and water retention, presumably both due to M1T/4AD combo. Libido is still increasing markedly.

    Training went well. I was disappointed not to show much strength increase on the squat. However, I got a fairly significant PR on the leg press. It felt great overall.

    Noticed a minor amount of muscle cramping I believe to be due to inadequate water intake yesterday. No lower back or calf cramping yet. Rather, I felt it in my shoulders, chest and lower quad of all places. Same places I typically get unexplained cramping. I will probably run calories a bit closer to 4000 this week to max out anabolism.

    Note: Looking back at my training log of last cycle, I am also a bit stronger on leg curls, so I am pretty much hitting PR territory on all leg work. Good stuff.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:18 PM.

  16. Nice work. That's a crazy jump in body weight... likely due to the cessation of M1T. I usually gain several pounds after a M1T cycle. It's wierd.

    Looking good man. Great log.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bioman
    Nice work. That's a crazy jump in body weight... likely due to the cessation of M1T. I usually gain several pounds after a M1T cycle. It's wierd.

    Looking good man. Great log.
    Thanks for checking my log biomann. Glad to have the feedback. I am actually still running the M1T. I am on day 10 now and will run it a full two weeks at 5mg.

    I hope I do experience a jump in bodyweight coming off though. I am more inclined to think my weight will drop some however if the bloating is mainly M1T and not 4AD related. We'll see. Time to hit the gym...

  18. wow dude, 25 pounds in 9 days!!!! amazing. i'm actually in my first day of a similar cycle, so i'm curious as to how yours is going, being that u are a week ahead of me. hey, how tall are you by the way, just so i get an idea of ur composition.

  19. Day 10
    August 3, 2004

    Bodyweight: 205
    Sleep: 7 hours
    Food: 4000 Calories
    Midworkout BP: 118/63


    Incline Bench
    175x3, 165x2x5 (no change), 160x5
    HS Decline Press
    DB OH Press
    60x5, 60x6
    HS Dips
    250x2x9 (no change)
    Tricep Extensions
    25'sx13, 30'sx6
    Finished with ab work and 10 minutes incline walking.


    Decent to good pump during workout. No change in strength levels though again, I felt much more solid under the weight on all movements.


    Noticeably worse today. I had to be very careful working out both regarding exercise selection and weights used, taking lots of extra time to warm up to hopefully avoid possible muscle pulls.

    Again, I will mention, the cramping is not in lower back or calves, but instead in places where I normally cramp up badly (chest, quads, and a little shoulders). Time will tell if my supplemental regime will help with the cramps. I am still going with K, both dietary and supplemental, Mg, and 1-2 gallons water per day along with 3-5g taurine.


    Pure eating enjoyment. I have discovered the low-carb tortilla and replaced my double fiber bread intake with these the last few days (as if more fiber was needed!). These things pack 14g fiber per tortilla and 8g protein. Ridiculous.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:16 PM.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by realsoundjim
    wow dude, 25 pounds in 9 days!!!! amazing. i'm actually in my first day of a similar cycle, so i'm curious as to how yours is going, being that u are a week ahead of me. hey, how tall are you by the way, just so i get an idea of ur composition.
    Is your planned cycle posted yet? I'll run a search and see if I can find it. Curious as to what you will be doing.

    I am a hair shy of 6'2".

    I am up 25 lbs, but I don't want to give an inaccurate picture of where the weight is coming from. My initial measurement was in a depleted state. Day 1 of my cycle I was at 189 lbs. I know from past eating experience, I could bloat up to no more than 195 eating eucalorically.

    So with confidence I can say I am up 10 lbs in 9 days, some of which is due to eating roughly 800-900 calories over maintenance. The rest is almost certainly coming from M1T and 4AD.


  21. hey, man, even 10 pounds in 9 days is great, although we can best say it is water. still, good signs man. havent began posting my log yet, i will thgough and keep u posted. good luck.

  22. Day 11
    August 4, 2004

    Bodyweight: 205
    Sleep: 7 hours
    Food: 4000 calories
    Midworkout BP: 122/68

    210x2x5 (stronger), 210x4 (hit failure)
    High Pulls
    115x4x7 (no change)
    DB Curls
    50x8, 50x5
    HS Low Rows
    200x2x12, 200x11
    *Finished with 10 minutes incline walking


    Modest increase in pullup strength. Those sets didn't come easily though. I should have trained the deadlift first. High pulls weren't quite agreeing with me (form issues), so I cut the deadlifting sets a bit short.

    Tommorrow will be a day off from training. I am working on a 3 on, 1 off approach at the moment. I still need to work on hitting 8 hours sleep a night. Usually makes possible strength gains a reality for me.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:15 PM.

  23. Day 12
    August 5, 2004

    Bodyweight: 205
    Sleep: 7.5 hours
    Food: 3700 Calories
    Training: Off


    This last three day training cycle left me with some expected DOMS. However, in addition, I am feeling a level of general achiness in my joints/muscles that is a bit more than I would normally expect. I am also feeling a bit like I have a mild headcold, minus the runny nose/sore throat etc. Basically, mild/moderate body aches and stiffness with a bit of mental fuzziness. Nothing too severe. On the positive side, muscle cramping has diminished quite a bit (due to muscle recovery I believe).

    I am going to make a couple of minor alterations over the next couple of days, cutting down food volume (not cals) and getting a bit more rest. I have a feeling my diet may be causing some of the aches. Part of the achiness may also be due to the fact that I am carrying around a lot more bodyweight than I am used to.

    I plan to run the M1T through the end of my next training cycle, Sunday totalling 15 days worth. I am basically going to give it a couple of days and see how I feel. This second week 'on' is turning out to be interesting re: its effects. I want to see how/if I can manage them for the better.


  24. Day 13
    August 6, 2004

    Bodyweight: 212 lbs
    Sleep: 8 hours
    Food: 3500 Calories


    195x5, 205x5, 215x4, 225x3, 235x2, 245x1
    Leg Press
    360x12 (easy), 450x7, 470x4, 490x4 (20 lb PR)
    Leg Curls
    DB Curls
    50x2x9, 50x8


    Stronger. Again.

    Woke up feeling kind of crappy. In an ill-fated attempt at getting out of bed at 6 a.m., my right oblique cramped up. Weird. I added another 7 lbs of bloat and water retention. 2lbs heavier than my previous high of 210 last cycle. It feels odd holding this much water. Dietary changes over the next couple of days will help this somewhat.

    As the day progressed, I started feeling much better. Took 2 green tea capsules (~200mg caffeine) along with some nicotine gum and drastically reduced my food consumption early on. Both helped out immensely.

    I noticed some slight puffiness and a tad bit of nipple irritation today also. Probably a bit more than a placebo effect. Could be from the M1T or the higher dose of 4AD. As a precautionary measure, I am going to take 30mg nolva until it subsides completely, reducing the nolva drastically as soon as symptoms abate.

    Re: training, I am slightly stronger on the squat than my peak last cycle. Depth was decent but not quite to parallel. My form seems to change more to a powersquat as the weight moves up. I generated quite a nice pump from only three sets of curls.

    Cold like symptoms are not noticeable but I still have some achiness in my joints overall and it took me quite a while to warm up today. I also had to be careful getting into position for squatting so I didn't induce a cramp right during the set. That would not be cool. For reference I will summarize my experience with M1T at the end of the first couple of weeks. Suffice it to say right now that I experience a number of the common sides reported in a very individualized way.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:14 PM.

  25. Day 14
    August 7, 2004

    Bodyweight: 200 lbs
    Sleep: 8 hours
    Food: 3500 Calories
    Blood Pressure Postworkout: 118/62


    Incline Bench
    170x2x5 (+ 5lbs), 165x5
    180x5 (no change), 175x5
    DB Overhead Press
    60x8 (+2 rep), 60x3x7 (+1 rep)
    HS Dips
    260x2x9 (+10 lbs)
    Tricep Pushdowns
    70x2x8 (+5 lbs)
    DB Tricep Extensions
    30x8, 30x7 (+1 rep)


    Stonger. Weight increases in everything save CGBP. 10 lb drop in bodyweight overnight. Took 40mg Tamoxifen, decreased food volume and worked lawn care for about 1.5 hours yesterday evening. I feel markedly better than I did 2 days ago overall minus some of the food bloat and water retention. Cold-like symptoms are gone. Cramping was still a major problem training chest today.

    Upon waking, I still felt the ab/oblique cramping. I believe this is what most people are referring to when they mention the lower back pain. For me it is not pain like you would get from doing heavy hyperextensions for example, but more of an internal sort of pain that radiates through to the abs. Tough to describe but I think I can reliably add that to my list of side effects now.

    I mixed up a new batch of trans 4-AD yesterday as well. Got 10 grams to dissolve in the 120 mL T-Gel bottle. Wasted a good 1/2 gram in transfer though. I would indeed make a horrible chemist. Lord help me if I ever try more complicated homebrewing.
    Last edited by Cardinal; 08-08-2004 at 06:32 PM.


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