Milk Thistle hurts gains on cycle?

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    Milk Thistle hurts gains on cycle?


    I've heard that milk thistle can hurt gains? I don't want to destroy my liver, so what do I do about liver protection for my SD?

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    AndroShred (sd) clone comes with 325mg of milk thistle, plus im taking 2x 5ml of liver juice daily, I thought that it was just a myth.
    I mean I took Liver juice with both my Hdrol cycles and got some nice gains on both cycles.
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    The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.
    Ok cool thats what I was thinking about doing. I've also heard you can load it pre-cycle, go off it during, and get back on for PCT. Would this be less advisable?
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    Yes, preloading is smart. Not only for mt, but Hawthorne is shown to first increase bp before it lowers bp. I assume your gonna use cycle support or cycle assist. I would preload for 1 week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    Yes, preloading is smart. Not only for mt, but Hawthorne is shown to first increase bp before it lowers bp. I assume your gonna use cycle support or cycle assist. I would preload for 1 week.
    I'm actually about done with my cycle. I took mt, hawthorne, and saw palmetto for cycle support. I stopped seeing gains, so I stopped the mt about a week ago and started seeing gains faster than i did during the rest of my cycle. for my next cycle i wanted to avoid any inhibition of the ph while still maintaining a healthy liver.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    The theory is that mt makes your ph/as less potent. A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.


    MT does not hurt your cycle but it counter acts your ph therefore making it less effective, as a general rule take mt 4-5 hrs after your last dose and again with your pre bed supps
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Force View Post


    MT does not hurt your cycle but it counter acts your ph therefore making it less effective, as a general rule take mt 4-5 hrs after your last dose and again with your pre bed supps
    i take my ph 5-6 hours apart. So would i ideally want to take mt on the 4th hour and my next dose of ph on the 6th hour? or should i take mt on the 5th hour and the ph on the 6th hour?
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    take mt 4-5 hrs after your last dose and again with your pre bed supps
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    just pop all your milk thistle before bed like I did
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    Yes it does, by inhibiting function of the AR receptor.
    There are some studies available, by a quick search i just found one.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11532861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaz View Post
    Yes it does, by inhibiting function of the AR receptor.
    There are some studies available, by a quick search i just found one.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11532861
    Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

    P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.
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    so should i invest in these other liver protectants instead of milk thistle? is there any evidence that suggests that they can block androgen receptors as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

    P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.
    is P-Choline the same as Phosphocholine? and NAC N-acetylcysteine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ward5742 View Post
    just pop all your milk thistle before bed like I did
    Would the milk thistle still be effective at detoxing your liver if you only take it once a day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    is P-Choline the same as Phosphocholine? and NAC N-acetylcysteine?
    Yes sir I buy 'in bulk' you could say, by getting encapsulated stand-alone from a company that OFTEN appears in the banners here. You can find bulk online at various websites, which I also can't mention (grrrr), but unless you have a capping machine and a few extra hours to devote to it, I'd just buy the pills
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Good find, I knew of the science behind this but wasn't going to go through the trouble to find the study, haha! Reps coming your way.

    P-Choline along with NAC are two ingredients I rely heavily upon during cycles to keep the liver functioning at its best, and I also try not to dose at the same time as oral drugs.


    Thanks for the reps !

    IMHO the top liver protection is TUDCA & UDCA by far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Yes sir I buy 'in bulk' you could say, by getting encapsulated stand-alone from a company that OFTEN appears in the banners here. You can find bulk online at various websites, which I also can't mention (grrrr), but unless you have a capping machine and a few extra hours to devote to it, I'd just buy the pills
    how much does P-Choline usually cost? NAC is cheap from what i have found, but the P-choline i found is like 40 bucks
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    how much does P-Choline usually cost? NAC is cheap from what i have found, but the P-choline i found is like 40 bucks
    1,200mg, 100 softgels, $8.00. Once again as always because of the rules on the board, I'm unable to link you to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    1,200mg, 100 softgels, $8.00. Once again as always because of the rules on the board, I'm unable to link you to it.
    So are these less likely to inhibit the effectiveness of the PH?
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    My current supplement say 4 caps- twice a day, maybe i should just limit it to 4 caps pre-bed and keep it up longer into post cycle...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    So are these less likely to inhibit the effectiveness of the PH?
    By eliminating the Silymarin, yes

    Oh, also... LCLT is a great addition.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    By eliminating the Silymarin, yes

    Oh, also... LCLT is a great addition.
    LCLT = L-Carnitine L-tartrate?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    LCLT = L-Carnitine L-tartrate?
    Yes sir! There are about four websites carrying it in bulk form around the 'net, or you can buy NOW Food's version in the 3oz little containers, as it's the patented Carnipure from Lonza.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Yes sir! There are about four websites carrying it in bulk form around the 'net, or you can buy NOW Food's version in the 3oz little containers, as it's the patented Carnipure from Lonza.
    awesome thx for the info man. do u know anything about DAA? ive heard alotta people mention it as either cycle assist or PCT assist
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    awesome thx for the info man. do u know anything about DAA? ive heard alotta people mention it as either cycle assist or PCT assist
    Yes, I've used it and researched it quite a bit. I'm torn regarding the side effects to be weary of, such as the excitotoxicity and the possible prolactin increase. I would think as long as the user is mega-dosing (more than 10g per day) for months on end WITHOUT the use of prolactin intervention, neither of those issues should be a concern. But... like so much in this realm of science and supplementation, it's only an educated guess.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Yes, I've used it and researched it quite a bit. I'm torn regarding the side effects to be weary of, such as the excitotoxicity and the possible prolactin increase. I would think as long as the user is mega-dosing (more than 10g per day) for months on end WITHOUT the use of prolactin intervention, neither of those issues should be a concern. But... like so much in this realm of science and supplementation, it's only an educated guess.
    From what Ive heard it helps alot with the whole hypogonadism thing as well as libido and psychological effects of coming off a steroid. If this is all true, i think itd be a good investment.

    I'm thinking about extending my cycle a week because I feel like i spent too much of my cycle taking milk thistle WITH my PH. Would it be a bad idea to make it a 5 week cycle instead of a 4 week cycle?
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    NACL for liver protection better than milk thistle anyways imo
    Test e/dbol/epi/winnie
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/164764-schwellington-has-been.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayactr2k6 View Post
    I'm thinking about extending my cycle a week because I feel like i spent too much of my cycle taking milk thistle WITH my PH. Would it be a bad idea to make it a 5 week cycle instead of a 4 week cycle?
    Never a bad thing to extend your cycle... but then again, I'm just a big fan of upping the dose and extending the duration
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    Never a bad thing to extend your cycle... but then again, I'm just a big fan of upping the dose and extending the duration
    Ok cool. I have enuf in my bottle for an extra five days so ill just be able to finish off the bottle with that. If I could get to 210 with those extra few days id be happy
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    i think using liver protection year around is a good idea...i take 1000 mg of milk thistle daily
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarBaSxx View Post
    i think using liver protection year around is a good idea...i take 1000 mg of milk thistle daily
    As long as you're not taking anything anabolic, this should be fine, and prudent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstanding View Post
    As long as you're not taking anything anabolic, this should be fine, and prudent.
    i basically only inject so im not worried
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    what about Synthergine for liver support?

    I heard it is practically the best stand alone liver support on oral cycles. But then again, everyone is trying to sell something, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptor20561 View Post
    what about Synthergine for liver support?

    I heard it is practically the best stand alone liver support on oral cycles. But then again, everyone is trying to sell something, right?
    There just trying to sell stuff at pro muscle..I like liv52
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    Very interesting, I wish I would have known this earlier. Would it be fine to just dose all at once? Sayy just before bed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehProdigy View Post
    Very interesting, I wish I would have known this earlier. Would it be fine to just dose all at once? Sayy just before bed?
    bump for an answer to this. It's a good question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    bump for an answer to this. It's a good question.
    Yes, just wondering if i should possibly take twice a day and split the dosing? and if i split dosing of thistle, how far apart from PH should it be?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bakerderek0 View Post
    A common solution is to dose milk thistle in between ph/as doses. Not at the same time and separate the two as much as possible.

    There's your answer.

    If you insist on taking milk thistle twice a day as opposed to once, space it out as far as possible (during waking hours, unless you enjoy waking up in the middle of the night to take milk thistle) from whatever orals.
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    Yeah I run orals every other month and during.my month off use liv52 and milk thistle
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