Well I have been body building on and off for the past 8 years. I have been off the real juice for about 3 years now, but I had gotten up to 250 with like 10% body fat at 5'11. I"m now around 215 with like 18% bf. I just finished running some hdrol at 50/75/75/75 for 4 weeks and got some decent gains and strength. So there are always prohormones out there too as an alternative that are pretty decent for orals. If you can get Test, dbols, etc.. and I would rather go with that , but start off low in dosage as you won't need much to get good results.