Back-to-back 2 weekers with Epi, question
08-25-2009 11:31 PM
Back-to-back 2 weekers with Epi, question
I am going to do a couple of things here, #1 is ask a question. Second I am going to outline my planned training, cycle, and diet for the next 4 months for educational purposes. It's pretty dialed in IMO. Opinions welcomed.
So the question is, when doing Bill Roberts style back-to-back oral 2 weekers, with Epi in this case, is it better to spread my 30mg of Epi evenly (done before 6pm of course) or just slam all 30 in the morning? I have seen a lot of Bropinions saying the 1970s pros used Dbol alone in the morning to avoid suppression, etc, and some anecdotes confirming this. I realize blood levels being consistent is important, but the minimal suppression of 2 week cyclec is what attracted me to this. It's a long-term strategy to retain more mass. And, in the past my first cycle ever, an epistane pulse that lasted about 7 weeks, was really successful just dosing 3 days per week.
More on the cycle itself in the reply...all opinions appreciated, evidence very appreciated. Thanks!
08-25-2009 11:43 PM
Week 1 Epi 30mg ED
Week 2 Epi 30mg ED
Week 3 Tamoxifen citrate 10mg ED
Week 4 nothing
-repeat 3 more times, for a total of 16 weeks-
ALSO, alternating between GHRP-6 200mcg 2x per day (400mcg total daily, 2.8mg total weekly) and PEG-MGF 500mcg inj bilaterally IM 2x/week, total dose 1mg PEG-MGF per week. When my body seems to get used to one, I will switch to another - or, every 4-6 weeks.
I will be alternating solid food and shakes every single day.(eat, wait 2 hrs, shake, wait 2 hrs, eat, wait 2 hrs, shake, etc.)
Training days: 4-5000 cals, shakes consist of TWO SCOOPS 40% beef protein/25% oat powder/25% fructose/5% betaine HCL/5% flax powder. Big nasty cheat meal (ok, not too nasty) after training.
Weekdays off: 2500-4000 cals. Follow a DC style carb cutoff, shakes are simply 5-10g hydrolyzed casein and 5g L-leucine, to spike blood amino levels between meals.
Weekends: 2000 cals minimum, ZERO carbs, avoid trace carbs as much as possible. Hydro casein + L-leucine between meals. Eat according to appetite, at least 3 solid meals.
Training: Rest/pause based, heavy, compounds, A/B split, enough said
Here is the actual during-workout shake I like. 30 grams:
25% hydrolyzed casein
15% citrulline mallate
30% glycerol mono stearate
Request double flavoring, lol yuk
08-26-2009 02:40 PM
bump. the question is, dose 30mg in the morning for 2 weeks before 2 weeks off, or spread evenly? does supposedly preventing suppression outweigh benefits of constant high blood levels?
08-26-2009 03:36 PM
i would go evenly, with a dose taken 30 minutes before working out, but i'm also not a big fan of pulsing which seemed to work better for you. i also think clomid is way better than nolva for PCT stuff personally. you may want to try taking your oral with 5mg of oil (flax or fish) and a small cup of grapefruit juice. when i do this on an empty stomach in the morning i swear i notice a stronger affect.
how has the Peg MGF been working for you? would be interesting to hear your thoughts on MGF
i've run IGF for years and been thinking of trying MGF sometime soon.
surprised you're not running CJC with your GHRP too, from what i've read here the synergy is huge between the two.
08-26-2009 06:01 PM
CJC is just too expensive for me right now. I may consider it partway through. But it would cost about double to add it in. I gather it's more important to run them long, ya know? I have heard good reports on GHRP6 alone. I am especially looking forward to the appetite increases!
I may try the Clomid since it increases T-levels faster than Nolva. Also, aromatization shouldn't be an issue with this cycle so the Nolva isn't as necessary; but I do like the reported effects on blood lipids.
I wouldn't consider 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off to be a pulse. I have read from some respectable sources that cycles actually "kick in" as soon as you begin, and most of the time when you think it's "kicked in" it's actually just a function of you noticing the gains. So theoretically the only difference between 2 on/2 off/2 on/2 off and 4 on/8 off would be recovery time and ability to retain gains. I'm not trying to debate this since I haven't ever tried it and I don't have any numbers, but I suspect it's true.
I don't have any PMGF yet, nor any GHRP6. It's pretty inexpensive though, I expect to only pay something like $190 including shipping for a 2 month supply of each. At 1mg PMGF per week, and 3mg GHRP6 per week.
I am starting this stuff on Sept 10 or so. Can't wait I will definitely let you know how it goes. I think I'll start with the PMGF since it's a less frequent inject schedule.
Oh, thanks for the grapefruit thing. Grapefruit juice is interested as hell, I imagine it does increase potency of methyls. It certainly does for opiates and similar drugs that go through the liver.
08-26-2009 06:10 PM
awesome man, i'll be starting a log of my cycle here at the same time too, and i'll likely be running IGF during it.
Neverstop's "LETS RUIN MY LIVER!!" cycle
any reason you went with the MGF instead of the IGF? i've had GREAT results from using IGF and its pretty cheap too. most of what i've read on here seems like people get more from the IGF. i'm just looking to try something new, i've been very happy with my IGF results. 1mg goes a lonnnggg way at 60mcg every third day, and you can get 1mg of IGF for 125$ easy. its great to use in PCT to hold onto gains and keep from gaining fat too, its hard to say but i feel like i recover faster on IGF too. in PCT i just use 30-60mcg every day for the first 10 days. i do find i need 4 weeks off for every 4 weeks on though or i stop noticing gains.
will be interesting to see how this turns out for you. before and after pics and details on how long you've been training will also be interesting.
you going to keep a log going on here?
08-26-2009 07:00 PM
Thanks for the support neverstop. I should read about IGF-1 more, thought the dose required was going to be expensive. My src has 2mg of some kind of shorter acting IGF-1 peptide for like $50. They also sell the $100, $125, and $200 versions. There just isn't a lot of info out there about the shorter lasting versions, so I dunno.
I mostly wanted to go with PMGF because it's cheap enough for me to run longer.
I have been training about 3.5 years seriously. Did my first cycle, epi pulse, about 11 months ago. Have done a solo Mdrol 3 weeker, and a Halo+mdrol 7 weeker since. I just can't seem to hang on to Mdrol gains, although the strength is good. Epistane I gained a solid 15 lb over 8 weeks, pulsing 3x/week up to about 40mg. I expect to gain a lot more in 16 weeks doing 30mg for 2 on 2 off. Hdrol was pretty cool but awfully mild overall.
Wanted to do syno but that crap is too complicated for me to bother with right now.
08-27-2009 07:55 PM
08-29-2009 08:36 PM
guess I won't post in the cycle forum again, anabolics seems to be where the action is. Thinking of doing 40mcg IGF-1 LR3 E3D, up to 60mcg if that doesn't get desired results. I would do that for 3-4 weeks at a time, then do GHRP-6. I guess i will cut out the PEG-MGF altogether to keep costs down.
09-04-2009 06:25 PM
yeah, if you use IGF that way it will be super cheap and last a long time. you can buy 1mg for $125, and you are only using 40-60 mcg at a time, perhaps 3x weekly, and 1mg is 1000mcg, i've had great great results with IGF. i have never used PegMGF but have not heard great reviews on here.
i'm surprised you aren't throwing some test cyp or something in and then just running 6 week cycles? using test and running the cycles for slightly longer helps me keep my gains MUCH better. i ALWAYS use HCG on cycle though, so that helps with PCT.
09-10-2009 09:44 PM
Thanks for the additional response.
What I'm doing is 40mcg bilat in chest Mon, 40mcg bilat in lats Wed, and 60mcg bilat in quads (VMO) Fri. I will probably do 4 on, 4 off, with 3x100mcg GHRP-2 daily until my 20mg GHRP-2 runs out
I am running 30mg epistane, which has given me good results in the past.
Test Cyp is my next cycle plan (which will be run alongside IGF1, as I will soon have 2mg) but I don't have enough cash to gamble with finding a reliable way to get good stuff right now. Never done injectable AAS, but I am not opposed to it, just haven't set out with $200-300 and tried to find a source. My PM box is always open, but I know better than to ask around on here so it's basically a matter of stumbling on the right overseas site...
I am running this Epi for 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off, for 4 months. Lots of people have reported good keepable gains running old school orals this way, and epi works well for me.
I am up to 202 from 195 since Monday, Aug 31.
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