Neverstop's "LETS RUIN MY LIVER!!" cycle

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    test / Xtren / Pplex / Hdrol = Neverstop's log "RUIN MY LIVER CYCLE"


    Here is my cycle, comments welcome. I've never run any of these orals so any advice/input is GREAT. AM is the shiat.

    Plan to start on September 14th. Bulking and taking IGF at 60mg E3D till then. i've done IGF on and off for the last year so will be interesting to see if my body takes to the aas any differently this time around as evidence of hyperplasia.


    MY STATS:
    5'8"
    11%bf
    ~180lbs
    very very high metabolism naturally

    BACKGROUND:
    have done 8-9 various cycles in the past, 4-5 injectable cycles. i had basically no idea what i was doing for the first few though.
    last cycle was 2+ years ago and was a 14 week cycle on test750mg and tren ace 350mg a week (pct was HELL) where i broke 200lbs (+25lbs) at <8%bf and was benching 315lbs and squatting 405lbs etc...
    I hurt myself and so couldn't lift much, also working 100+ hours a week and so basically didn't work out at all (killed me!) for 2 months. Now been back at it hard for 2 months.
    i've broken both my hands and ankles at various times, as well as blew out my knee and my rotator cuff (MMA & kickboxing) so unfortunately those limit me on strength.
    I typically only do 1 cycle a year or 2 MAX.

    i eat clean, rarely drink. Working out since i was 10 years old in some sport or another. Lifting on and off for 7 years and more serious maybe 4 years ago, but have had serious injuries here and there getting in the way. was 135lbs when i first started lifting...hahaha...

    GOALS:
    I have a vacation in the sun at the end of October with a bunch of hot women and my goal is to look freaking ripped as hell (<8%bf) and be at 190lbs+ and bench 315lbs+ again,
    pretty cosmetic goals, but whatever, hahaha....
    so i need to put on ~9lbs of muscle and drop a a few percent of bodyfat


    THE CYCLE:

    week 1-9 test cyp 500mg, taking 1000-750mg a week for first 3 weeks
    week 1 deca 600mg in one shot (leftover from previous cycle)
    week 1-4 CEL PheraPlex 20mg ED
    week 2-6 CEL PheraPlex 20mg ED
    week 3-10 CEL hdrol 50/75/100/100/100/100/100mg ED

    week 2-10 HCG 100iu EOD
    week 3-10 Arimidex .5mg ED
    week 2-10 nolva 20mg ED

    (this isn't ideal but i can't buy "real" AAS anymore, hence the buffet of "legal" oral steroids, if it was up to me i'd be running Anavar for the first 6-8 weeks)

    so basically deca/high dose test/Pplex 4 week cycle bridged into 6 week lower dose test/Hdrol

    i know that is 10 weeks on orals ( = OUCH MY LIVER!) but i've done quite a few cycles at this point and know my body quite well, i plan to get some blood work after PCT and i'll be getting a blood pressure monitor too (any recommendations?)
    I only plan to do one cycle this year and want to make it count

    i've been preloading support supps and i'll be taking all the normal support supps while on too as well as "Anabolic Innovations Cycle Support"

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    PCT:
    clomid 100/75/75/50/50
    nolva 40/40/20/20/20

    and i will be using IGF in PCT like so:
    60mcg Every day for first 5 days
    then 40mcg every other workout, post workout for 4 weeks.

    all my normal supps plus tribulus and "Anabolic Innovations Post Cycle Support" and i'll probably get some cortisol control (suggestions?) to start in week 2 of PCT
  3. Senior Member
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    (reserved for before and after pics and final review)

    FINAL REVIEW

    Overall, a great cycle that I'm very happy with. It's been a long time since I ran a cycle and this was tons of fun. Made a few mistakes that didn't help me but that's ok I guess (For a good cause).

    Goals: Achieved them mostly, benched 315lb 4x now, Gained 13lbs to 193lbs and dropped a little bodyfat. I'm guessing 9% maybe 10% bf and I'm 193lbs. Exceeded my weight gains but didn't cut as much as I would have liked. My diet needs ALOT of work if I"m going to cut much below 10%bf.

    PheraPlex: One word: AWESOME. This stuff is great, it's very comparable to superdrol to me but less sides. About 75% of the gains but only 25% of the sides. I felt pretty great on it and never had too much back pump issues (superdrol was BAD for this) or lethargy. Sweet spot for me was 20mg.

    Hdrol: Weak. Was not impressed. It certainly didn't feel less toxic to my body when I was using it and the effects were not as dramatic as phera or mdrol. If I'm going to be on cycle I'd rather just use that time on mdrol or phera. Could be good for cutting and good first cycle since shut down isn't too bad I've heard but I probably won't run this again unless it's during a long cut. Made my body feel "harder" and pumps were good but that's all I got.

    Xtren: Gave me gyno (very rare for me) but still trying to figure out how to use this though as I really liked the effects and felt great on it, other than the bitch tits. Stuff was surprisingly strong. Made me perpetually thirsty. Not explosive gains like phera/mdrol but made me feel like I was leaner on it for sure and fealt easy on my body other than slight increase in blood pressure. Would be great for a cut if staked with epi or Hdrol. I think if I wasn't on test I may have been able to make Xtren work. Next time I run a cycle I'll try Xtren solo for a few weeks to see.

    Test Cyp: I realized I took too much test, in the future I'll keep my dose lower and let the other steroids do the work. Test is GREAT for pornstar abilities and hunger though and I felt like I could single-handedly conquer an invading empire. So that was pretty awesome. I don't feel like it really is that strong for gains though, especially since I wasn't on it that long, and the estro bloating, DHT conversion, gyno, issues etc outweigh the risks. So in the future I'll run this lower or I'll stay on for 12+ weeks (if i can get HCG). I feel like test compounds the sides from other steroids too.
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    Damn son, you're not ****in around. Looking to get hard and jacked from all that Hdrol andTren?
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    go big or go home! haha....

    i'm pretty much looking to recreate this cycle with some small changes and adding test since i hate oral cycles w/o test. Jason's Spring Bulk/Cut Cycle: P-Plex, Tren, H-Drol

    he took 150mg of Hdrol at one point and 120mg of tren and he seemed to do ok. if i can put on half the weight he did but drop a few more % of bf i'll be at my goals.
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    ok, here are some pics to make this interesting. sorry for the shi tty cell phone pics but thats all i have right now.
    this is a pic of me about 3 years ago before my 14 week cycle, i was about 170lbs, not sure on bf, but probably ~10-11%, pic is blurry but at the time had a few veins in my chest and clearly defined obliques.
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    and here are 2 pics about 3 weeks into PCT following my last cycle. this was a ~2 years ago. i was 194lbs or so, not sure on bf, guessing ~9% since you could see the lower abs somewhat. this was right after working out. i'll post up some recent pics right before my cycle, but just want to give some indication of the muscle memory involved.
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    i've just been preloading my suppliments: Coq10, 3-6-9 oils, tribulus, fenugreek, and about half way done with my first tub of AI's "cycle support" that has red yeast rice, NAC, silymarin, hawthorne berry, saw palmetto, nettle root, celery seed, etc.

    taking GABA at night too.

    so i should have everything covered. other than that i was doing 60mcg IGF-Lr3 E3d on and off for the past year till i finally ran out now that IR doesn't carry it anymore

    i must say that i've been feeling amazingly good, its been awhile since i've hit the gym consistently like this 4+ days a week and i don't think i've ever stacked this many natural suppliments too.

    body is feeling good other than some pain in my knee and right wrist sometime when lifting.

    i'll be out of town after that for a week for work but then REALLY excited to start this cycle. its been a lonnnnggg time since i ran one.
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    Hey man, for liver protection I'd suggest taking PPC (polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine) a.k.a. "compound N," which has been shown to keep the liver from being negatively affected during a cycle. I don't see it talked about a lot on this board, but I've run my last two cycles with this and NAC, and liver values post-cycle were only very slightly elevated. Life Extension makes a product called "Hepatopro," where each cap is 900mg of PPC. The recommended dosage is 1800mg daily.

    Just thought I'd share.
    RTR.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Hey man, for liver protection I'd suggest taking PPC (polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine) a.k.a. "compound N," which has been shown to keep the liver from being negatively affected during a cycle. I don't see it talked about a lot on this board, but I've run my last two cycles with this and NAC, and liver values post-cycle were only very slightly elevated. Life Extension makes a product called "Hepatopro," where each cap is 900mg of PPC. The recommended dosage is 1800mg daily.

    Just thought I'd share.
    THIS is interesting...I think we need to open a discussion topic abut it

    In for the ride "neverstop".....your name makes me think of Journy's "Dont Stop Believin"

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGzwNdTVHJo"]YouTube - Don't Stop Believing(Journey)[/ame]
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubberring View Post
    Hey man, for liver protection I'd suggest taking PPC (polyunsaturated phosphatidylcholine) a.k.a. "compound N," which has been shown to keep the liver from being negatively affected during a cycle. I don't see it talked about a lot on this board, but I've run my last two cycles with this and NAC, and liver values post-cycle were only very slightly elevated. Life Extension makes a product called "Hepatopro," where each cap is 900mg of PPC. The recommended dosage is 1800mg daily.

    Just thought I'd share.

    thanks man, i'll look into that. i'm definitely pushing it by running long methyl cycles so the more help my liver can get the better. would you mind posting a link up to your log or where your blood work is? i'd be interested to see the rest of the numbers too. also, where did you have your blood tests done at?
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    hahaha, thanks Zero, the "neverstop" is just sort of in reference to my relentless personality when it comes to everything.
    still got a few weeks till i kick it off and it gets interesting but i'll try to get some before pics up relatively soon.

    should be a fun cycle and any comments are appreciated. i'm still open to making changes if they sound good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neverstop View Post
    thanks man, i'll look into that. i'm definitely pushing it by running long methyl cycles so the more help my liver can get the better. would you mind posting a link up to your log or where your blood work is? i'd be interested to see the rest of the numbers too. also, where did you have your blood tests done at?
    I've yet to try running a log on here, but I will on my next cycle. I get my blood work done at the VA Medical Center in Palo Alto. My doc there is aware of the supplements I take, and he orders up whatever panels he wants to see and/or I request. I'll see if I can find the paperwork and scan/post.
    RTR.
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    thanks, no biggie if its too much work but would be interesting to see your blood work to compare with mine, since i only run milk thistle for liver in the past. thats way cool your Dr. is ok with that. i'm so scared that would end up on my medical file and screw me.

    anyone else want to recommend a good/reliable/cheap place to get cheap blood tests done?
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    I think that dosaging for H-Drol looks good, especially when you're gonna have it synergized with tren and test. But hey, if you don't mind throwing down another 30 on a bottle, I'd increase those last couple weeks to even 150mg. I doubt there will be any additional side effects from running H-Drol at 150mg compared to your already now 100mg. I was an animal on 100mg as well as 150mg. Man, your strength is gonna be through the roof with this cycle.
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    thanks man, i've got like 65135154 bottles of Hdrol/Pplex/Xtren/Mdrol so doing more isn't an issue. i guess i'll just wait to see how i feel. looking forward to getting my strength back where it was and getting shredded.

    did you ever get your liver values tested after your cycle?
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    i think the pplex hdrol would be a nicer stack and save the tren for another time

    id split the deca into 6 100mg shots or 3 200mg shots and do it every 10 days as low dose deca seems to act similare to test.
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    so looks like i got some IGF now too, sweeeeettttt. i'll be taking off for work for a week, then when i get back its time to get this Shiate going ON!
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    so i just got back and am about to get this **** started! i've been planning and looking forward to this for awhile now, so i've been anxious to get pinned. hahaha. that is the good news,

    the bad news is that i just got back from a 11 day business trip where i hit 7 airports and 10 cities, and i got both a sinus infection and some serious food poisoning. so pretty much the work trip from hell and i'm not sure how much weight i lost and i certainly feel cra ppy, but i just took my first pin of test cyp at 750mg and the deca at 600mg anyway since that takes awhile to build up in my blood. i'll be starting the pplex at 30mg with grapefruit juice and flax oil tomorrow morning.

    i'll be taking initial pics and weight/bf measurements tonight too. still waiting on my blood pressure monitor. given all the shocks to my body, i'm not doing initial blood tests but i'll be taking some after PCT for sure, like i always have done.

    BOOOO - YA - KA - SHAH - !!
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    DAY ONE:

    179lbs

    looks like my business trip from hell and getting sick cost me 8lbs too !!! god damnit!!! when i left i was at 185lbs and now i'm at 177lbs
    there is no doubt that i'm dehydrated and that i ate about half of what i was supposed to but that still sucks alot. i'll be pounding water and stuffing my face to see where i normalize at over the next 2-3 days.

    so i'm still waiting for my 23g pins to come in, so had to take my shots so far with a 20 guage! OUCH. that sucks.


    so far though, no change in how i feel of course, i DO want to say that Anabolic Innovations "cycle support" doesn't taste nearly as aweful as i expected, actually if i just throw 2 scoops into my morning cytogainer chocomint shake i can't even really notice it, so that is good. i'll be getting pics up soon too.
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    subbed. i hope this works out for ya. cycle looks sick!
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    day 4

    182lbs

    no updates since not much to report really.

    today is the second day of p-plex and my second shot of 500mg of test cycp too.
    hit legs this morning and chest last night, still not feeling anything different other than a great sense of well being and "alpha male" status from the test (which i freakin love) its been so long since i've been on test i think i forgot just how awesome i feel when i'm on it
    i've only been back from my trip a few days too and those beat runs take awhile to recover from. i expect to start feeling everything in the next 2-3 days though.

    hoping to find a good/cheap blood pressure monitor soon too, being on that many different types of gear has me concerned about blood pressure issues potentially
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    Day 8

    183lbs

    so i did back/biceps 2 days ago and chest/triceps this morning, and i can now CERTAINLY tell i'm "ON". the pumps are INSANE and i'm not pushing much more weight yet but my workouts are more intense and i can do more reps with the heavier weights already.

    the Pheraplex is definitely making me feel lethargic though and if i take it on an empty stomach before my early morning workouts it F's my stomach up good. I probably should have started at 20mg and ramped up instead of just starting at the 30mg level but whatever. No real issues sleeping, in fact i've been quite tired all the time. also, the relatively high levels of test i'm using since i front loaded my first few shots has me holding some water, but i'm ok with that right now, i'll be using arimidex here soon.

    when i find some replacement batteries for my camera i'll try to get some pics up, i would put up strength numbers but due to injuries i'm not sure how helpful they would be as my injuries are really my limiting factor. on that note, i must say i DO enjoy how deca makes my joints feel.
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    wow, good luck with this.

    if your sensitive to prolactin sides, or gyno, watch out for that dienolone precursor (tren)
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    wow, good luck with this.
    if your sensitive to prolactin sides, or gyno, watch out for that dienolone precursor (tren)
    yeah, had gyno issues when i was on 750+mg of test cyp and 125mg of tren ace a long time ago, so i'll be watching it closely. i'm running relatively low doses of the Xtren too. i'm still waiting on my IGF too.

    thanks!
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    Day 9

    183lbs

    today is a rest day so not much to say, just eating and taking people's money playing poker, i must say i'm a bit frustrated with my weight, i really expected to be up at least to back where i was before i got sick. with the original Superdrol i was up 5lbs the first week. so far on the phera plex i'm basically not up at all. its weird, i FEEL much bigger and pumped, but the scale says otherwise and i don't feel like my bf is down much.

    one thing i HAVE noticed though is that my recovery time is noticeably faster, i'd say i'm recovering 25% faster at least and i'm a bit stronger but not gaining weight bothers me a big and i don't want to binge eat either.... nothing to do but to wait so thats what i'll do!
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    Phera is good but for me it just doesn't compare to SD. Better recovery = much better workouts though, get more weight for more reps on your last few sets and that makes a big difference.

    I still think phera is a slower kick in compound although it really made me gain weight rapidly at the beginning, it was a lot of water/bloat (mostly from my carby diet I think).

    For me week 3+ on PP is where its working best
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    Day 10

    187.2lbs

    wtf?! is that possible? i got home late late last night and decided to hop on my scale quick before going to sleep and could not believe what i saw. is it possible that i gained 4lbs in one day? i'll be checking my scale again tonight for verification but i hope its legit.

    had some obligations so today is my second rest day in a row.

    *libido = 9/10
    *joints = 9/10 (left elbow a little sore but everything else feels great)
    *gym aggression = 9/10
    *lethargy = 8/10
    *sleep = 9/10
    *pumps = 9/10
    *strength = 7/10
    *energy = 6/10
    *focus = 7/10
    *back pumps = 0/10
    *hunger = 9/10 (freakin starving constantly and perpetually thirsty)

    starting to notice the pheraplex for sure now too, the other day i was talking on my cellphone while driving and my biceps pumped up so much just from that i had to switch arms. hahaha! muscle are noticeably harder also which is good i guess.

    in other news, i got some IGF from a new source and i'm not getting super hungry after use and it burns much more upon injection. i've only used it a few times, but i think i may just chalk it up to research and throw it away if its not doing anything and burning.
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    thanks unreal, i'll be looking forward to week 3 for sure then, my current cycle has me on Phera for 30 days (4.3 weeks), maybe i'll run it for a bit longer.

    its hard to tell how much bloat i'm getting from the pheraplex due to all all the test i'm on and my diet is not low in carbs, but i don't feel overly bloated or anything right now. still a bit disappointed though, wondering if i should have used Mdrol instead....


    what do you guys think of increasing the pheraplex dose to 40mg or starting the Xtren early?
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  31. Senior Member
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    Day 12

    189lbs

    I'm going to make a bumper sticker that says " I <3 test cyp"
    It's been awhile since i've been on test and i forgot how freakin awesome it makes you feel all the time!

    that is more like it, i'm glad i'm finally putting some of the weight back on that i lost when i got sick. feeling constantly pumped up and strong as hell. I can DEFINATELY tell i'm "ON" now, which is great. Even though I've been sleeping very little (5 hours a night), partly due to the steroids and partly due to unavoidable work, my recovery time is still pretty impressive. 2 days after being so sore i can barely walk, I feel ready to go back and do that muscle group again. Its AWESOME.

    Also, I bumped the Phera up to 40mg for the last two days to see how i would respond and it was too much for me. I felt permanently pumped to the point that it was uncomfortable and the lethargy was horrible. I also had headaches and brutal back pumps all the time. So it looks like the sweet spot is 20-30mg.

    I'm thinking about starting the X-tren early and just running it at 60mg for the rest of the cycle

    *libido = 10/10 (girlfriends are limping...lol)
    *joints = 9/10
    *gym aggression = 9/10
    *lethargy = 9/10 (tired all the time)
    *sleep = 7/10 (not sleeping much, waking up a lot)
    *pumps = 10/10 (pumps are so nuts its kind of painful sometimes)
    *strength = 7/10 (impressive strength gains despite my injuries)
    *energy = 6/10
    *focus = 5/10
    *back pumps = 7/10
    *hunger = 7/10
  32. Senior Member
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    this is some crazy shizzzzz, you all need to see this, unreal...

  33. Senior Member
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    Day 15

    191 lbs (and have dropped some bf)

    i'm feeling JACKED 24/7 now and am fully in mass monster mode. i feel untouchable in the gym, putting up big weight with veins in my neck popping out. i'm getting absurd pumps every time i walk up the stairs and virtually everyone around me has commented on how much bigger i look. I've definitely dropped some body fat and everyone of my lifts is up quite a bit. I don't know if anyone is interested in seeing my workout weights since my injuries limit me but if someone wants to see it i'll post it up.

    as far as my diet goes, i've been keeping it pretty clean 5 days of the week and then 2 days a week i don't even watch what i eat. i've never been a fan of candy and ****e like that, but on those days if i want some bacon, then god damnit i'm eating a big pile of bacon! that is the "neverstop MD" diet for gaining and cutting. i know my body well at this point so its been working.

    i'm having difficulty eating enough. i'm sure i'd be 5lbs bigger if i could force feed myself better. the only thing limiting me at this point is how much clean food i can stuff down my throat and how much sleep i can get. averaging 5 hours a night is really not helping me either. blood pressure is up slightly and back pumps are there, but manageable, so far the worst side is just the lethargy all the time. basically if i don't get 10+ hours of sleep i'm tired all the time.

    summary: i feel awesome and, while i was disappointed earlier in the cycle, now its coming on so hard that it makes up for the weak first few days.
  34. Senior Member
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    Day 17

    191 lbs - i feel like i should have put on at least a pound or two but i am looking leaner too. weird since i probably ate 4500+ calories a day for last few days and have given up on eating clean in the quest to pack on mass..

    I've decided to start the x-tren today at 60mg a day. I'm at my 190lbs+ goal and so if i can just put on 1-2 more pounds, while shedding a few points of bodyfat over the next few weeks I will have accomplished my goal.

    my strength has shot up so much on some lifts that my joints are now starting to hurt. curls are usually one of my weakest lifts and my workout buddy usually can do a good amount more than me. this morning i was working out with him and i was doing preacher curls with a 45lb plate on each side for 8 reps like nothing and he was like "WTF?!? 3 weeks ago you were doing 25 or 35 max on each side and struggling with less reps?!"
    hahahaha!

    safe to say i'm now a big fan of Phera-plex, I really am liking it more than superdrol. I put on more weight and strength on superdrol but the Phera has much less sides for me and i feel less bloated even though i'm on a decent amount of test. I have really not found it to be as "wet" as others have reported even though i'm still eating a good amount of carbs. I'm looking forward to seeing how the X-tren/Pheraplex combo works out.


    *libido = 9/10
    *joints = 6/10 (starting to get pain)
    *gym aggression = 9/10
    *lethargy = 9/10
    *sleep = 7/10 (not sleeping much, waking up a lot)
    *pumps = 10/10 (pumps are insane)
    *strength = 8/10 (gaining strength so quickly i'm worried about hurting myself)
    *back pumps = 8/10 (getting worse)
    *hunger = 8/10 (when i sleep >5 Hours i'm so hungry its becoming a joke)
  35. Senior Member
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    Day 19

    190.8lbs

    nipples are a bit sore this morning, not entirely surprising since when i was using injectable tren ace at reasonable dose i had gyno issues. Was hoping that this wouldn't happen with 19-nor stuff but looks like it is. I'll up the arimidex dose and see if that helps so that i can narrow it down to the test or the Xtren. I've heard from some that tren products have such a strong affinity for binding to the AR receptors that it can displace testosterone and cause gyno. We'll see how the adex works and I may add some nolva also. If neither of those help then I will just have to cease using the Xtren.

    overall, i'm not that worried considering how much test cyp I have taken to get my blood levels up quickly, but worth mentioning and monitoring.

    Overall, everything is going well. I'm absurdly hungry and my recovery rate is unreal. Probably faster than it has ever been on any cycle previously. I did chest on monday and seriously, but tuesday evening i was feeling like i could hit it again.

    the downside is that my diet has not been that clean....so I am a bit leaner but I havn't maintained a "cutting" diet yet so I need to step that up to hit my goals.
  36. Elite Member
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    I had the same problem with PH tren and I had to get off of it. The stuff also killed my libido. So i'm not a fan. I hope for your sake that it's estrogen gyno and the adex fixes it.
    Mostly answered PM's
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    <------ Hard to believe, but I wasn't on any anabolics in the avatar shot
  37. Senior Member
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    well, all this test has my libido doing fine but I really hope its estrogen gyno otherwise I just wasted some money in stockpiling bottles of this xtren.....
  38. Senior Member
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    193 lbs - Rest Day

    feel fine other than my absurd appetite. will be interesting to see if Xtren kills my unstoppable drive to eat every waking minute. my last cycle killed my appetite when i was injecting tren ace so will be an interesting comparison.

    only real complaint so far is that the back pumps are getting worse. I now get them in my very lower back even just walking around, still not as bad as the original superdrol or M1T though. My forearms are pumping up so much when i'm working out sometimes that it gets hard to maintain my grip also. Was a little troublesome when i was doing back the other day but manageable so far.

    Lethargy is getting slightly better though. Other than that surprisingly low sides so far.

    in regards to the gyno i just cut the Xtren to 30mg and am waiting, i forgot that nolva can make tren gyno worse.
  39. Senior Member
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    Day 24

    194.3 lbs

    not a whole lot to report the last few days, workouts are just getting better and better. I'm still consistently putting on a lb every few days and i'm also getting leaner. strength is up on all lifts considerably. for example, when i started the cycle i was doing bent over rows with about 90lbs for 8 reps or so, yesterday i was doing them with 120. My bench press is up ~45lbs too and I'm nearly at my goal of benching 315lbs already.

    the pumps are getting truly ridiculous. this morning i was doing chest and my arms pumped out so bad i literally couldn't reach my feet to tie my shoes. hahaha.

    GYNO

    I'm very surprised I had problems at only 60mg of Xtren. Still not sure what the gyno is from exactly. I had gyno issues only once before and that was when running tren ace at relatively high doses and even then it only occured once i started taking HCG.
    I have stopped taking the Xtren though and started taking arimidex since i noticed some gyno pain. I plan to use some nolvadex for a few days and see how i feel and then gradually re-introduce the Xtren. I REALLY liked the xtren so i'm hoping that i can take it without issues. stuff really leaned me out and made me noticeably stronger on only 60mg.
  40. Senior Member
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    my thread on Xtren gyno

    Gyno and Xtren
  

  
 

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