Mdrol, Hdrol or Pplex with test cyp cycle?

[neverstop]

whats up guys, i'm planning on running test cyp for 8 weeks and i would like to stack it with one of these methyls but looking for input on which one is best.

Ideally i would like to kick start the cycle with 3 weeks of superdrol and then take a 10 day break and run Hdrol for 5 weeks (last 2 weeks of cycle and then 3 weeks after last shot while i wait for the test to clear my system)


just looking for your input or thoughts on how you would do this and if i should run Pheraplex instead of Hdrol or Mdrol perhaps? maybe there is another methyl out there that you think is better than any of these?

 

[lennoxchi]

whats up guys, i'm planning on running test cyp for 8 weeks and i would like to stack it with one of these methyls but looking for input on which one is best.

Ideally i would like to kick start the cycle with 3 weeks of superdrol and then take a 10 day break and run Hdrol for 5 weeks (last 2 weeks of cycle and then 3 weeks after last shot while i wait for the test to clear my system)


just looking for your input or thoughts on how you would do this and if i should run Pheraplex instead of Hdrol or Mdrol perhaps? maybe there is another methyl out there that you think is better than any of these?

why cyp for only 8 weeks? but anyway. i'd think sd (mdrol) for 3 weeks is good for a kick and it you wanted to run the hdrol like that, i think it looks just fine. i might just introduce it a week sooner. active life on test-c and e is something like 2 weeks not 3

 

[neverstop]

per Pfizer the half life is 8 days about on test cyp, and i'm probably more cautious than most with PCT. so i usually use an oral for the last 3 weeks so that i can continue gaining and give my body PLENTTTY of time to clear the various aas in my body. i'll also be ramping up HCG in my body throughout the whole cycle but particularly in the last 3 weeks. so even though the test cyp will be lower my natural test will be quite high and i tend to react very well on the HCG, frequently experiencing another step up in gains in the last few weeks.

i'm mostly running the test cyp just to support the methyl anyway.


have you run all those methyls before? (hdrol, mdrol, Pplex) not sure which one to take

 

[neverstop]

so you're saying overlap the Mdrol and Hdrol? i'll be taking all the extra supps too (cycle support, etc)

 

[lennoxchi]

per Pfizer the half life is 8 days about on test cyp, and i'm probably more cautious than most with PCT. so i usually use an oral for the last 3 weeks so that i can continue gaining and give my body PLENTTTY of time to clear the various aas in my body. i'll also be ramping up HCG in my body throughout the whole cycle but particularly in the last 3 weeks. so even though the test cyp will be lower my natural test will be quite high and i tend to react very well on the HCG, frequently experiencing another step up in gains in the last few weeks.

i'm mostly running the test cyp just to support the methyl anyway.


have you run all those methyls before? (hdrol, mdrol, Pplex) not sure which one to take

i have ran all those, yes. if the half life is 8 days then the test will clear in about 16 days.....2 weeks like mentioned before. at that point wouldn't you want ot start PCT and stop the hdrol?

 

[marzanaut]

watch the sides and liver issues

 

[neverstop]

yeah, i've done 5-6 serious cycles in the past so i know my body pretty well so i'll be watching and monitoring all my important vitals, thanks and your sig is freakin hilarious bro.

i've got half life all charted out and last time i did my cycle like this with torem and IGF in PCT i bounced back almost immediately.
the test won't "clear" in 16 days, since half-life by definition means that the amount in your body "halves" every ~8 days. PCT is most successful for me when i go into it with very low levels of endogenous hormones in my body and thats why i stack the orals at the end again while i ramp down the test so that i can go off the orals very quickly and then start PCT 1 days later. so if i give it 3 weeks from my last shot, when i go into PCT i only have about 25mg of test in my body, keep in mind that test that is produced by your body from HCG is much more effective, and i'll be taking HCG in good amounts in those weeks too, and that 25mg number doesn't take into effect the extra test my body will be producing from the HCG.


if you've taken all three, which one was your favorite and why?

thanks

 

[marzanaut]

mdrol was great for quick gains, but the gyno killed it for me. I did a stack of haladrol 50 and tren and that worked well-not as insane with gains than mdrol but good all the same. PPlex was alright, after I stacked it with hdrol.
I am about to begin test e, so I am assuming a greater amount of gains like none other.

 

[neverstop]

i've taken superdrol before once and loved it but the back pumps sucked on squats and deadlifts day. ouch. i had trouble keeping the gains from superdrol too, easy come easy go gains are no fun. i think i'll run IGF between the two oral cycles for a week at relatively high dose to make the superdrol gains "stick" better.
adding test to methyl orals makes them sooooo much better man, you'll get better gains and just feel better all the time but be sure you have some ai on hand like letro or arimidex. I've never had any gyno issues on any steroid really so i'm not worried about that. risk of gyno increases when you stack stuff.

which one did you like more: hdrol or pheraplex? i don't want to stack methyls and i'm looking for whichever one i can take for a longer amount of time. i'm leaning towards doing the Hdrol at 75-100mg for 5-6 weeks. i've heard its pretty mild and i'm not uncomfortable about increasing dosage.

 

[marzanaut]

pplex.
I never had an issue with gyno, but as soon as I did mdrol it f_cked me up. I had to get letrozole after trying 2 different compounds. Pissed me off that I didnt know this before I started the mdrol.

 

[neverstop]

could you please expand on that a little as to why you liked the pplex more? also, how long and at what dose did you run each one?

thanks

 

[marzanaut]

H-drol 50
P-plex 15
bridged.

 

[lennoxchi]

if you've taken all three, which one was your favorite and why?

thanks

it depends on what your expected results are.
hdrol-leaning out feature, higher libido and energy stick with 75mgs.
PP- puts water weight on me (not bad but some) good strength and sense of well being and a good bit of size, higher libido for about 2 weeks
SD-strength, moderate size (depending on how you eat) sense of being an animal, lower libido and quicker shut down.
these results are based on my experience, others have different results of course.

 

[neverstop]

why did you like the pplex more than hdrol?

i don't know your body weight but those are some pretty low doses too, i've heard the "sweet spot" with hdrol is 75-100mg

 

[neverstop]

it depends on what your expected results are.
hdrol-leaning out feature, higher libido and energy stick with 75mgs.
PP- puts water weight on me (not bad but some) good strength and sense of well being and a good bit of size, higher libido for about 2 weeks
SD-strength, moderate size (depending on how you eat) sense of being an animal, lower libido and quicker shut down.
these results are based on my experience, others have different results of course.

so judging by this i would probably use the Hdrol, since the test will be putting plenty of water weight on me so i don't need more of that and i'll already have run the superdrol in the beginning.

 

[neverstop]

any of you guys ever run any of the HGH peptides like cjc in PCT? thinking about doing that, maybe start the cjc/ghrp 2-3 weeks before PCT and then run those for 8-10 weeks.

 

[marzanaut]

hey neverstop read this. It deals with HCG and covers a good deal of PCT too.

POST CYCLE THERAPY

Whenever one considers stopping an anabolic steroid cycle, it is extremely important to wean yourself off of the drugs very slowly. For instance, if someone were taking 1000mg of sustanon per week, they would not want to just abruptly stop taking everything. The problem with just “stopping” a cycle, while taking such a high dosage of steroids, is that you may suffer the very unfortunate fate of “crashing”. In bodybuilding circles, when we talk of “crashing” we are referring to the situation whereby the user abruptly stops taking any exogenous anabolic steroids yet they also have no endogenous (natural) production of testosterone (due to the temporary shutdown
of their pituitary gland from all the aromatizing steroids the user is taking). Usually it takes approximately 2-3 weeks for natural testosterone to start being produced. It is during this 2-3 week period that the user is extremely vulnerable to viruses (caused by a suppressed immune system), low sex drive (caused by a low testosterone level), and worst of all, lean muscle losses (also caused
by low testosterone levels). How can we prevent this “crash” of the endogenous hormonal systems from occurring? First off, in the first week, it is a really smart idea to slowly lower the amounts of all injected anabolic steroids (bring injected testosterone levels immediately down to 500mg per week). Secondly (week 2), go off all oral compounds and stop all injected anabolics (with the exception of long-acting injected testosterones—keep them at 500mg per week). It is a good idea to
stay on long acting testosterones (such as testosterone cypionate or testosterone enanthate) as opposed to short acting ones (such as testosterone propionate or testosterone phenylpropionate) because the long duration esters will slowly leave the bloodstream over the course
of 3-4 weeks (therefore, there will always be some hormone present) during which time the user’s body will have a chance to start producing endogenous testosterone. Thirdly (around week 4), following the last dose of injected
testosterone, the user should start a 2 week course of Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG). Every second day, the user should inject 2000 IU’s of HCG. HCG is a hormone that mimics the effects of the pituitary hormone Luteining Hormone (LH). LH, in men, stimulates
the leydig cells of the testicles to produce testosterone (this will effectively “kickstart” the inactive testes).
Lastly (around week 6), Clomid (clomiphene citrate) should be administered orally at a dose of 50mg two times per day (for 2 weeks). Clomid is a synthetic estrogen that, in men, can perform two functions: a) Clomid antagonizes estrogen receptors (somewhat
inhibiting the estrogenic side effects of aromatizing anabolic steroids).b) Clomid mimics the effects of the hypothalamic hormone Gonadotropin Releasing Hormone (GRH). In humans, GRH stimulates the pituitary gland to produce LH and Follicle Stimulating Hormone (FSH). This final role of Clomid, then, is to help awaken the pituitary gland that has been suppressed from the heavy anabolic steroid cycle
that was just recently ceased. Once the last Clomid pill has been swallowed, it is time to allow
the body to restore its natural endogenous hormonal system to normal. This restoration may take upwards of 2-4 weeks. I suggest staying off all synthetic anabolic steroids for at least 6-8 weeks following the ingestion of the last Clomid pill. This “break” should give your liver cells adequate time to detoxify themselves and your muscle cell receptors enough time to, once again, become receptive to anabolic stimuli.

SUMMARY:
- HCG: 2000mg every second day for two weeks
- Clomid: (start 2 weeks after conclusion of cycle) 50mg two times per day for two weeks
- Aromatase Inhibitor: Arimidex (.5mg every other day) or TESTOSTOLYZE (5 pills every day).

 

[neverstop]

thanks man, that is a pretty aggressive HCG protocol, i'm a bit worried about LH downregulation so i prefer to just use HCG throughout the whole cycle at lower doses but i do plan to ramp down the test cyp. my last two shots will only be 200mg shots of test the way i've got it setup in excel right now. i usually ramp up the HCG too just to get my body all ready.

i think that protocol is from quite awhile ago actually now that i've read it a few times, they used to use HCG during PCT, while as now its pretty widely understood that using HCG during the cycle and not after is a better way to go. you have any idea how old that info is? HCG during PCT was commonly used in the 1980-1990s but i don't think anyone really does that anymore?

that guy is right now but a bit more aggressive than i'm comfortable with. for instance i do only one 8-10 week cycle a year and if i'm ballsy i may throw another 3-4 week oral cycle in there. so i would never get back on after only a 6-8 weeks.

 

[neverstop]

also, since you've used them all would you mind elaborating/comparing on your experience with Mdrol, Hdrol and Pheraplex abit?

that is an interesting concept of using them at lower dose but stacking them....

 

[neverstop]

i'm also thinking about giving one of the OTC tren products a try.

you think stacking pheraplex and superdrol in the beginning is just asking for liver death too much? anyone ever do this?

 

[marzanaut]

i think that protocol is from quite awhile ago actually now that i've read it a few times, they used to use HCG during PCT, while as now its pretty widely understood that using HCG during the cycle and not after is a better way to go. you have any idea how old that info is? HCG during PCT was commonly used in the 1980-1990s but i don't think anyone really does that anymore?

that guy is right now but a bit more aggressive than i'm comfortable with. for instance i do only one 8-10 week cycle a year and if i'm ballsy i may throw another 3-4 week oral cycle in there. so i would never get back on after only a 6-8 weeks.

the guy who wrote is a bigwig in pro bbing. His name is Dave Palumbo. This protocol is one of the most sought out questions he gets, because the protocol is really successful. It's there if you choose to use it.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Run the Cyp at least 10 weeks IMO

Superdrol is a good kickstart (4 weeks).

Also consider running Pheraplex for the first 5 weeks. I'm beginning to see that Phera takes a while to kick in and needs to be run longer. I had originally thought to jump my first test cycle with Phera but decided on Superdrol in the end. Either would work well.

I don't think you should bridge into Hdrol or throw it into the end, just save it for another cycle. I don't think your cycle is long enough to have an oral finisher.

 

[marzanaut]

still it's a bit taxing on the liver and do you think that it is excessive with the PHs and test? What's the idea behind it in your opinion unreal? To get quick gains fast? Never understood the concept behind it.

 

[UnrealMachine]

You don't understand the idea of an oral jumpstart?

It's very simple. In a PH cycle you can put on 10-15 pounds in a month. Some of this is muscle, a lot of it is just nutrients loaded into your muscles. In a test cycle (enanthate, cypionate, sust) it takes about 4 weeks for the test to kick in. Rather than wait (it sucks to pin yourself for weeks while getting no results), you start off with an oral. In the first 4-5 weeks you make incredible gains. And you stop right about when the test is kicking in at full force. This should allow you to maintain and build on the gains gotten from the oral. Weeks 5-12 is a long time to continue to make gains and is long enough for your body to adjust to the gains and make them much more keepable than the gains on a PH standalone.

you may as well start off with the oral. A normal 4-5 weeker of a methyl isn't THAT taxing on the liver... it's the 6+ weeks of bridged or stack orals that start to push it, but even that won't actually cause any liver damage, as people do it all the goddamn time.

This is really the only way I would do it. I have run test as a standalone. It works, but it kinda sucked, it's weak, honestly i was very disappointed. But it is strong enough to slowly improve the gains made by an oral cycle. And because you can run it so long you can make some really kick ass results in the end. If you run your test 12 weeks, it'll be active from about week 4 through week 13, giving you about 9 weeks after your oral to keep gaining slowly.

 

[marzanaut]

yes, I guess I can see that. Good point.
Now, finding a methylated PH that isnt taxing on the liver is half the trick. I may just do this. I thought about using dbol or possibly mdrol, but because of the gyno, I'd rather stay away from it.

Even if one did start with mdrol at 10, 20, 20, 20 as a kickstart and on test for the entire cycle I would recommend still recommend using side supports for the liver.

 

[UnrealMachine]

i don't think a 4 weeker methylated cycle has ever done permanent liver damage in the history of the world. Not at normal doses, not even at high doses. 4 weeks of Mdrol, 5 weeks of Phera, i wouldn't worry.

 

[marzanaut]

Not saying that it would. I am merely wondering if there is such a thing that actually works that fast; sdrol/mdrol is out of the question for me. Too many issues with it-for me at least. I did think about Havoc. Its better for dry gains than pplex since it (pplex) does give wet gains.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I am really of the opinion now that dry/wet is real but diet factors laregely into it. Nutrient repartitioning are the key words to look for here, not so much of it on phera apparently... I ran it on a bulk and did look "bloated" but that will happen to me when i'm downing lots of carbs.

I have also run it on a low-carb recomp and ended up around 10% bodyfat, looking hard and dry, with abdominal veins. So overall i think the wet/dry thing is overrated.

Besides you'll be on test anyway. It's a bulking cycle. Expect some water weight and don't worry about it.

 

[neverstop]

the guy who wrote is a bigwig in pro bbing. His name is Dave Palumbo. This protocol is one of the most sought out questions he gets, because the protocol is really successful. It's there if you choose to use it.

Thanks man, i'm sure a pro bb knows more than i do about it. i'll read u more and it and perhaps change my PCT protocol then, there is always more to learn.

 

[neverstop]

Run the Cyp at least 10 weeks IMO
Superdrol is a good kickstart (4 weeks).

Also consider running Pheraplex for the first 5 weeks. I'm beginning to see that Phera takes a while to kick in and needs to be run longer. I had originally thought to jump my first test cycle with Phera but decided on Superdrol in the end. Either would work well.

I don't think you should bridge into Hdrol or throw it into the end, just save it for another cycle. I don't think your cycle is long enough to have an oral finisher.

@unrealmachine,

do you mean run the Pherplex instead of the superdrol or are you suggesting i stack them?

i'll be using all the normal side supports for liver and blood pressure, plus i'll be double dosing Cycle Support.

i only have 8-9 weeks of test cyp depending no how i dose it, and i don't like running orals without some test and i also don't like running shorter cycles.


also, the cycle is only 8 weeks of shots but at 750mg of test a week i'll still have 2 weeks of decent test levels from the cyp and whatever test the HCG produces in addition. to its 8 weeks of shots but really i'll have elevated levels of test for 10 weeks. i'd really like to run 2 oral cycles in there is possible.

 

[neverstop]

@unrealmachine,

i understand what you're saying about the shorter cycle not being able to do 2 runs of orals but the last oral cycle will be mostly while the test cyp is coming out of my system, so if you count the last 2 weeks after my last shot as being part of "the cycle" then technically i would be on for 10 weeks, with a 3-4 week oral cycle to jumpstart it, then using IGF and ramping up test for weeks 4-6 to solidify superdrom gains, and then using another oral for weeks 6-10, however i'll only be taking test cyp shots for 8 weeks at 750mg/week. so i should still have a good amount of test in my veins in the last 2 weeks plus whatever test the HCG adds to the mix.

if i can end up with 10-15lbs after PCT i'll be very happy with this.

 

[marzanaut]

I am really of the opinion now that dry/wet is real but diet factors laregely into it. Nutrient repartitioning are the key words to look for here, not so much of it on phera apparently... I ran it on a bulk and did look "bloated" but that will happen to me when i'm downing lots of carbs.

I have also run it on a low-carb recomp and ended up around 10% bodyfat, looking hard and dry, with abdominal veins. So overall i think the wet/dry thing is overrated.

Besides you'll be on test anyway. It's a bulking cycle. Expect some water weight and don't worry about it.

Which is the reason for my t3 addition. Small amounts of (25mcg) t3 added to a test cycle do great things for calorie partitioning.

 

[neverstop]

yeah, im pretty worried about messing with that stuff. i just don't know enough yet. i will tell you that stacking tren ace and IGF was the most amazing cycle i've ever done. i was simultaneously gaining muscle weight and shedding fat faster than i've ever seen before. too bad i F'd up my PCT on that cycle and lost quite a bit....

 

[marzanaut]

but the sides of certain PHs really make me stay away from them. I'm thinking of Epi or Havoc for a kickstart about month and test at 500mg would be fine.

 

[UnrealMachine]

I'm saying to choose SD for the first 4 weeks or Phera for the first 5 weeks and don't try to cram another oral into the end unless you're going to run the test a lot longer.

 

[marzanaut]

mdrol=gyno for me.

 

[Kookahdoo]

P-Plex is nice and wet...That would be my suggestion.

 

[neverstop]

thanks guys, i think i'm leaning more towards just doing two 4-6 week cycles and splitting this into two. i've done many 3-4 weeks cycles and a few 10-13 week cycles, so will be interesting for me to do something in between since i had more difficulty holding gains on the shorter cycles and i hated myself during PCT usually on the longer cycles.

so i'll probably run one 4 week 20mg a day mdrol cycle with test at maybe 250mg a week just to keep me feeling ok (i feel like shiat when i run those oral cycles with no test) and i'll be taking 500iu of HCG throughout (perhaps overkill but i reallllly hate PCT), and i'll be looking around at the TREN products to find one i can stack in this cycle.

then i'll run a 5 week cycle of Pheraplex at 40mg a day and stack the Hdrol at 75mg a day for 6 weeks, with my 600mg of deca thrown in at the beginning and test at 250mg a week, and my HCG. i know you didn't say to stack the Pplex and Hdrol but i'm going to try it anyway, i may actually lower the doses and run it for longer too. like 7-8 week cycle total and 10mg less a day. i hold gains better if my body gets used to it i think.

i'll be using IGF lr3 for the first week or two on each and then during PCT and i'll be sure to keep a log going so that i don't get lazy. keeping a log makes me more serious for some reason.

thanks guys.

 

[UnrealMachine]

Considering that test and deca take 4 weeks to kick in, running either for under 8 weeks is something I firmly encourage you not to waste gear on.

 

[marzanaut]

P-Plex is nice and wet...That would be my suggestion.

to whom are you pointing that towards? I've lost track of the thread.