PH non-responder's 1st M1T Cycle log
- 01-16-2004, 03:54 AM
PH non-responder's 1st M1T Cycle log
Just started my 1st M1T cycle a few days ago and thought I'd use this thread as my log.
I've tried cycles of several PHs in the past like 1AD, MAG-10, and Animal Stak, and never noticed any results at all. I think diet & training are fine and not the issue, and figured I was one of those rare PH non-responders.
I'm going to maintain my normal training and diet routine during this M1T cycle, which consists of:
TRAINING: workout time 10:30PM-12 Mid, typically 4 days on/1 day off (day 1 chest & abs, day 2 tri & legs, day 3 bi & abs, day 4 back & shoulders)
DIET: 10:30AM: ON 100% Whey protein shake, 1:30PM: lunch, 5:00PM: EAS AdvantEdge protein bar, 8:00PM: dinner, 12 Mid: ON 100% Whey protein shake, 2:00AM: Muscle Milk protein shake (total daily protein about 175 g)
My 2-week cycle:
Kilosports M1T: 10mg at 9PM (before my 10:30PM workout)
T-4 transdermal: 2 squirts 11AM, 2 squirts 10PM
Hawthorn: 1.1g, 2 times a day
Saw Palmetto: 160mg, 2 times a day
Flaxseed Oil: 1000mg, 2 times a day
Milk Thistle: 200mg, 3 times a day
B12: 100mcg, 2 times a day
Potassium: 99mg, 3 times a day
MSM: 1000mg, 2 times a day
Animal Pak 9PM before workouts
Will do Nolva for PCT.
My starting stats: 34 y.o., 6'3", 33" w, 174 lbs (down from 177 lbs a couple of weeks ago before getting the flu)
Chest workout, didn't notice anything at all from supps
Started workout with tris, noticed significant strength increase in early sets but got sore really quickly and had to cut workout slightly short, didn't even do legs. No other sides from supps.
Bicep workout, immediately noticed strange ache/soreness in forearms on very 1st exercise (preacher curl) that limited weight below normal, aches increased for rest of workout. Although I completed all sets, weights were all below normal. Is this the "pump" people are speaking of? No other sides.
Strange mild slightly nauseous headache from early afternoon on, and very sleepy by 6PM despite full night's sleep previous nite. Not really a lethargic "tired" feeling, but more wanting to sleep like I had pulled an all-nighter. Had to take nap from 7:30PM-9:30PM. Took M1T at 9PM and at 10PM started noticing ache in forearms that had not been there all day. Gym tonight: Was supposed to start with shoulders but felt extremely sore right away despite not having done shoulders for 2 weeks, and so I skipped shoulders & switched to back exercises. Strength above normal (added about 10 lbs above normal weight on exercises), no real soreness or problems doing back, then did abs normally. Weighed myself and am up 2 lbs to 176 but this could just be recovering back from the flu-related loss.
Will update further as I keep going through my cycle.
- 01-16-2004, 09:37 PM
Regarding day 3, if your muscles are sore even at the start of the workout, the muscle is still being repaired and growing. IMO that is a day to work another part of your body or take the day off. On M 1-T, your muscle may grow stronger faster than your tendons, etc., so keep your head and do not pull anything.
Regarding the pump, it is just that--a pump. Your muscles should feel engorged, and if it is painful, it will be from being too engorged. Based on my personal experience and what I have read, it is not common to run into this problem during the first week, but there are exceptions since no one is exactly the same. Good luck.
01-16-2004, 11:27 PM
I know this is a cycle log but if I'm reading your diet correctly, you're only eating two solid meals a day? IMO that's not enough calories or total protein throughout the day to see good gains. At your weight, I would shoot for around 300 grams of protein ed. Could be the reason you haven't had much gains in the past. Wouldn't hurt to try.
01-17-2004, 12:43 AM
Thanks for the comments. Cogar, I'm not sure why I would have been sore when I hadn't worked that body part for most of a week but we'll see how today's day off helps recovery. Beelzebub, yes, I only get 2 solid meals not including the protein bar midday. I know its not ideal but I am so busy I barely have time even for the 2 meals I do get. That's why protein shakes were invented, I guess. I do try to eat somewhat large meals. Do you think increasing the amount of protein per shake will help, if I don't have time to add more shakes? I currently do about 35 g per shake.
01-17-2004, 01:37 AM
OK, I may not have understood your situation correctly. Still, it seems that you are getting more adverse sides every day and I do not recall pain of this type being associated with the first week in anyone else's M 1-T cycle. Are you sure you are fully recovered from the flu? What you are describing are almost flulike symptoms. If you are not fully recovered, you might want to stop this cycle and run PCT for a week or two (since M 1-T shuts you down in a few days, even if you do not notice the symptoms).** Check supersoldier's thread (link) for more information on shutdown with M 1-T.Originally Posted by raytrade
**PS: This was only a comment for consideration, not a recommended course of action, since I cannot experience your symptoms.
01-17-2004, 03:13 AM
Yeah man, if shakes are your only source for quick protein, increase those. What I do is I cook my meals the night before and carry them to work with me. Everything is measured out so I know exactly how much I'm getting and the exact time I eat it. But like I said, if shakes is all you can manage, increase the protein intake with those. I'd say make each one at least 50 grams a piece. You'd be surprised how much upping your protein will help the gym, even if it's a little bit. What's your total calorie intake?
01-18-2004, 12:19 AM
Beelzebub- I honestly don't really keep track of calories. I keep fat at about 20-25g per day, and I'm probably a bit on the high side with carbs since I eat a lot of bread and drink a lot of soda (but I stay away from candy). I'll increase the protein amount per shake as you suggest and maybe add another protein bar or an energy bar between meals.
Update on DAY FIVE:
Off day, no gym. I'm very surprised that I feel no soreness at all from my somewhat heavy Back day (DAY FOUR) as I am usually sore for a few days even from my normal back workouts. Got really sleepy again at about 7PM but stayed up til midnight. Mild headache from 6PM onward. Took M1T at 10PM. No sides. Maybe my body's getting used it it?
I'll report on DAY SIX (today) tomorrow. I did take my BP today at one of those monitors at my local drug store, and it was well within normal range.
01-18-2004, 12:48 AM
Cogar- I actually don't think the symptoms are all that bad/unmanageable. I appreciate your comments, though... and yes, I am definitely over the flu as I waited a few days after the flu symptoms ended to start the cycle. I do agree the symptoms are a bit unusual and not the normal ones other people are experiencing.
I am thinking of increasing to 20mg M1T in the 2nd week split between 2 doses, since I don't seem to be feeling any big gains on 10mg, but am a bit worried about the headaches and sleepiness if they are related to the M1T, though I do know others have posted the sides actually are less at the higher dose.
01-18-2004, 10:46 PM
Thank you for the clarification, raytrade. Personally, I would recommend against increasing the dosage. If you have not read it already, you may find the comments in this thread (link) helpful in that regard.
I also noticed that your daily fat is only 20-25g per day. Fat is tied to testosterone and other related hormones (I cannot recall the chemistry but remember the general idea) and excessively low fat may be inhibiting your gains. You might consider increasing your fat with some healthy fats like flax oil until you get perhaps 20% of your calories from fat.
01-18-2004, 11:45 PM
you need to get eating some food or your just wasting your money and liver! You could probably due to put on 30-40lbs before you need to think about add pro-hormones. Just my opinion
01-19-2004, 02:47 PM
Agree with parametric. At 6'3" and 175, you don't have the training and diet dialed in yet. Chest the day before tris, bis the day before back, only 25 gm fat, a lot of soda? parametric nailed it.
01-20-2004, 03:07 AM
Appreciate your opinion, but I am one of those really tall, lean ectomorph(sp?) types that really has a hard time gaining weight. To be honest, it would probably take me years to put on 40 lbs if I could even get there in a lifetime, except possibly from lots of muscle gain.Originally Posted by parametric1
Last edited by raytrade; 01-20-2004 at 03:58 AM.
01-20-2004, 03:15 AM
I know my routine's a bit abnormal, but I have a major stamina problem (probably because I work out late at nite after a full day of work) and despite every intention, I just get too worn out to do the usual chest & tri, back & bi workout. As for the low fat level, it is cause I eat ALL of my meals out, and would rather eat low fat than lots of unhealthy fat from french fries & stuff like that. Because I mostly dine alone, most of the meals are from fast food restaurants so it seems like my only options are either low fat grilled chicken sandwiches or extremely high fat cheeseburgers. And yes, the soda is a totally bad habit, again mostly cause fast food restaurants don't offer many other drink options. I do drink diet soda when I canOriginally Posted by MrTrap
BTW, 2 years ago, I was 6'3" & 150 lbs. Talk about looking like a stick.
01-20-2004, 03:39 AM
Update on the past few days:
Chest day. I am noticing that my libido has been increased, not decreased, since I started the cycle. Added moderate weight (5 lbs) to my usual bench press, but as seems to be happening every day during this cycle, I am finding myself much weaker than normal very quickly. By the 3rd exercise (incline press), I was doing 10 lbs less than usual and barely able to even do that. Not noticing any kind of particular pump from the M1T nor any of the sides others are mentioning. I do seem to be a bit bloated in the stomach which might be the water retention people are talking about. Barely did abs as I was too worn out.
Went to the gym a bit early, at 7PM. Took M1T preworkout at 6PM, a few hours earlier than usual for me. Normally Tri & leg day but decided to do bi instead because I wanted the pump for a date that night. Strangely not sore at all from chest the day before. Weighed myself and am up to 178, one lb more than what I was before the flu & cycle. Gratefully, there was no forearm soreness like I had in my last bi workout. Stamina seemed OK and I was able to do my normal routine, unlike previous days. Strength was initially a little more than usual, up 5 lbs on the 1st exercise (preacher curl), but then down about 5 lbs from normal weights on every other exercise. No other noticable effect from the M1T, but the 4AD is making my nipples a little itchy.
Read Cogar's link above about upping the M1T dose, but against his advice (sorry), decided to increase the dose because it seems like the M1T isn't doing much or even giving me sides anymore at 10mg. Should have taken my extra dose this morning but forgot so took 10mg at 7PM and 10mg at 10PM. No bi soreness at all from yesterday's workout. Libido is still up. Gym tonight was the tri workout I was supposed to do yesterday. Like yesterday, weight was up about 5 lbs in the first exercise, then down a little bit on everything else. Skipped abs because stomach hurt a little bit but I don't think it is related to the M1T. Skipped legs because I will be doing a lot of walking tomorrow. Stomach is totally bloated and sticks out like I've got a beer belly!
Oh BTW, I wanted to thank everyone for their comments about my diet. Your criticisms are pretty valid and my explanations above are just clarifications of why my diet is what it is, not justifications that I think my diet is actually ideal.
Last edited by raytrade; 01-20-2004 at 03:57 AM.
01-20-2004, 11:10 AM
If you put on 23 lbs in a year with that diet and routine, then with a decent diet and routine it would just take you a couple years. It doesn't happen overnight for anybody. Check out Iron Addicts posts on this board as he has a bunch for those that have a hard time gaining weight.Originally Posted by raytrade
01-22-2004, 03:37 AM
Had a bit of a stomachache all day which I don't think was related to my first double dose of M1T the day before, but decided to play it safe and back down to the original 10mg dose only for the rest of this cycle instead of my planned increase during this week. Did legs tonight. Definite strength increase there, but not sure how much to attribute to the M1T & how much to the nearly 3 weeks it's been since my last leg workout (due to various scheduling issues that made me not want my legs sore).
Nearly no leg soreness despite the heavy leg workout the nite before. Decided to take the day off from the gym. I am noticing increasingly that after applying the 4AD gel to the backside of my forearms, the veins pop out like mad immediately. After my 2nd 4AD application of the day (tonight), the veins were so vascular (Is that the right term?) that it was almost scary. Thick grey lines were popping out of both the topside and backside (or is that inside & outside... anyway, let's just say both the palm-up and the palm-down sides). I seriously look like some freak mutant from the Xmen with these dark lines running down my arms. I read in another thread about someone who may have had internal bleeding but I assume that is more of a dark splotch and not limited to the veins themselves. Anyway, I just think this is an interesting effect but am not too sure what to make of it beyond that. I am not normally a person that has noticeable veins at all. It is now about 30 minutes since I applied the 4AD and the veins are starting to fade a bit which makes me feel better. Is this a normal effect of the 4AD?
01-27-2004, 09:15 PM
01-28-2004, 04:43 AM
Last update for the past few days through the end of the cycle:
Chest Day. Definite increase in strength, added about 10 lbs to top weights. No sides.
Triceps only today. Started strong, adding about 5 lbs to top weights, but wore out really quickly. Cut workout short due to this, plus had a mild headache all evening, possibly from the M1T. Lethargy was noticable, not feeling really motivated.
Slept like mad, went to bed at 2AM last nite but didn't wake up till 1PM!!! I've been sleeping 8.5+ hours each nite, so there should be no reason for my body to suddenly crash like this and need the extra sleep. Possibly an effect of the M1T? Despite waking at 1PM, got really tired by 7PM. Managed to stay up til 9PM then had to go back to bed due to extreme tiredness. Skipped the gym completely as a result.
Despite going to bed at 9PM last nite, stayed asleep till 11:45AM. That's 14.75 hours of nonstop sleep. Definitely has to be the M1T as I can't explain it otherwise. Kinda tired again by evening but was determined to hit the gym since I missed it last nite. Did biceps only due to tiredness, but still increased top weight by 5 lbs.
Cycle should have ended yesterday, but decided to take one more day on-cycle due to the missed gym day a couple of days ago. Woke up normally today, so the extreme tiredness of the past 2 days is gone. Not very energetic though, and decided to do a quick shoulder routine tonight, since I haven't done shoulders during the past two weeks of the cycle. No real difference in strength from normal, but shoulders have been a bit weak lately (which is why I skipped it the last 2 weeks). Still kinda weak throughout routine tonight.
First day post-cycle. Didn't feel any remaining side effects of M1T. Weighed myself and am up to 181 lbs!
M1T definitely worked for me. Accounting for the weight loss from the flu pre-cycle, I feel I had a net weight gain from the cycle of 4 lbs, which is pretty significant for me as a hard gainer. Sides came early, then went away until the last couple of days, so it looks like the 2 week cycle is indeed the way to go. I would do it again, but as a typical PH-nonresponder, I don't expect to get the incredible results others have reported, but for me, the moderate results I got were already beyond expectations. Also, for me at least, libido was significantly increased, not decreased during the cycle like others have experienced. I feel like a teenager again, popping boners all day and nite long when I normally don't. Almost embarrassingly uncontrollable, actually. It'll be interesting to see what the Nolva does for libido post-cycle.
Hope this cycle log is helpful to other naturally lean hard gainers who may be considering M1T.
Last edited by raytrade; 01-28-2004 at 05:09 AM.
01-28-2004, 04:56 AM
Hey Boss_K-Originally Posted by Boss_K
As always, I appreciate honest opinions, but would you mind elaborating why you think I am not ready for M1T? I've been training 5+ days a week for almost 3 years, and in the past 9 months, have really hit a plateau with nearly no weight or strength gain week after week, so the M1T seemed the way to go; and yes, I have tried the usual things like changing around the routine.
Also, as I said in previous posts, I fully acknowledge my current routine is somewhat unorthodox, but a necessary adaptation due to my work schedule, that at least has me concentrate once a week on each body part.
I will work on diet based on the input of others here. I do have to say I miscalculated my total fat intake in my previous posts. It is actually about double what I said as I forgot to account for the 18g of fat in Muscle Milk plus the additional moderate levels of fat in other protein shakes and the flax seed supplement I'm taking.
01-28-2004, 09:39 AM
I'd agree with your assessment on working on the diet some for better results on cycle. With the increased nitrogen retention on cycle increasing protein intake is a very good idea while on androgens, with as high as 2grams protein per pound of bodyweight being recommended. Alot of people will claim to not to be able to afford to increase their protein intake, but with the 2 week cycles that are becoming commonplace it really isn't for a very long period of time. Have you figured out your total daily calorie intake? If trying to put on serious mass 20x bodyweight would be a good place to start, and it looks like you likely wouldn't be near that based on your posted diet. Instead of increasing m1t dosage if you cycle again try increasing your protein intake and total calorie intake first, and see if that doesn't bring you better results.
01-28-2004, 01:33 PM
Not only that, but how much does a 2.2 lb. container of good protein cost--$25? That is a small investment IMO, especially compared with the cost of androgens, ancillaries, etc. required to actually run the cycle.Originally Posted by max silver
01-28-2004, 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by Cogar
How about 40 bucks for a 10lb container? Or go to customizer and get a similar deal.
01-29-2004, 12:11 AM
Man, I'll tell you why you don't gain naturally and why you think you are a non-responder. According to your log you trained legs once. It looks like you only trained back once. You are never going to gain much weight training chest arms and shoulders. And if you have trouble gaining, why are you doing a full workout on chest? You don't need three different chest exercises. A full workout for bis? At 6'3" and 180, you are wasting your time with this stuff. I'm not being mean here, I'm trying to help. If you want to gain weight, you are going to have to change that routine.
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